• Iran: If Israel fires single missile at Iran, target every inch of Israel.
    88 replies, posted
[QUOTE=R3N3GADE;33466928] personally i feel that israel has every right to bomb those facilities given that they would be military targets in breach of un rulings.[/QUOTE] Lost any credibility you had at this point. This extreme right-wing rhetoric of “we own the world” is truly abhorred and immensely hypocritical (an unsurprising element from the right) By your tremendous logic, Iran has every right to bomb Israel’s military targets, because Israel’s military actions are in breach of dozens of UN Resolutions and international law, right??? If you’re going to cite UN resolutions in some twisted attempt to justify a military attack, don’t cherrypick. The most recent UNSC Resolution ([URL="http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,UNSC,,IRN,,4e0c365e2,0.html"]1984[/URL]) recalls UNSCR 1696 which has repeatedly emphasized on the use of diplomacy to resolve the Iranian nuclear issue, not military action.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;33472885]Lost any credibility you had at this point. This extreme right-wing rhetoric of “we own the world” is truly abhorred and immensely hypocritical (an unsurprising element from the right) By your tremendous logic, Iran has every right to bomb Israel’s nuclear targets, because Israel’s military actions are in breach of dozens of UN Resolutions and international law, right??? If you’re going to cite UN resolutions in some twisted attempt to justify a military attack, don’t cherrypick. The most recent UNSC Resolution ([URL="http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,UNSC,,IRN,,4e0c365e2,0.html"]1984[/URL]) recalls UNSCR 1696 which has repeatedly emphasized on the use of diplomacy to resolve the Iranian nuclear issue, not military action.[/QUOTE] have you stopped defending iran's right to attack civilians or is that still fair game forgive me for operating in a world of reality. unlike yourself, i don't choose to blind myself to iran's raging political inability to be trusted with nuclear weapons, unlike israel. the use of un resolutions goes for you, too - you've gone from "no iran has no nukes" to 'well they have a right to nukes", all the while spouting un resolutions against israel. your bizarre inability to recognise the inherent corruption of the iranian reigme (classic anti-western left hypocrisy - rage against american human rights violations while you ignore iranian atrocities, can't get over it) is, frankly, pathetic. your attempts to dismiss my logic are equally flawed - please tell how iran bombing israeli nuclear sites will speed up the middle-eastern peace process, really, i'd love to hear how. e: i mean seriously do you actually think diplomacy is going to work?
Sounds pretty reasonable. "Don't destroy any of our shit or we'll destroy your favorite city". It may sound harsh, but it's a good way to offer peace through "leave us the fuck alone or we'll fuck you over".
Why are they acting so MAD? ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction[/url]) Seriously it's like a miniature cold war now...
[QUOTE=R3N3GADE;33472947]have you stopped defending iran's right to attack civilians or is that still fair game forgive me for operating in a world of reality. unlike yourself, i don't choose to blind myself to iran's raging political inability to be trusted with nuclear weapons, unlike israel. the use of un resolutions goes for you, too - you've gone from "no iran has no nukes" to 'well they have a right to nukes", all the while spouting un resolutions against israel. your bizarre inability to recognise the inherent corruption of the iranian reigme (classic anti-western left hypocrisy - rage against american human rights violations while you ignore iranian atrocities, can't get over it) is, frankly, pathetic. your attempts to dismiss my logic are equally flawed - please tell how iran bombing israeli nuclear sites will speed up the middle-eastern peace process, really, i'd love to hear how. e: i mean seriously do you actually think diplomacy is going to work?[/QUOTE]It could if people like you would get their heads out of their asses. Iran has not acted and has only said they would attack in retaliation, a perfectly legitimate reason for carrying out an attack. Who is ignoring Iranian atrocities? They are blatant and obvious. But in that same group is Israel, who has made nothing short of a pass-time out of committing atrocities against the Palestinian people whose land and lives they continue to steal and destroy. Israel is guilty of extensive corruption as well, working to keep those favoring the status quo in power. Your position is one built on misinformation and ignorance, blind to reality and fact.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33473683]It could if people like you would get their heads out of their asses. Iran has not acted and has only said they would attack in retaliation, a perfectly legitimate reason for carrying out an attack. Who is ignoring Iranian atrocities? They are blatant and obvious. But in that same group is Israel, who has made nothing short of a pass-time out of committing atrocities against the Palestinian people whose land and lives they continue to steal and destroy. [/quote] Nah, the only difference is people have a higher expectation of Israel. They're a first world nation with a lot of diplomatic, military and trade alliances with the leaders of the world, people are going to get pissed off when they do something wrong. Iran is in with old Libya, Venezuela and NK, containing them is first priority so whatever stupid backwards shit they do stays in their own country. You really want to compare police brutality and land siezing to executing dissenters and gays though, fine with me. [quote]Israel is guilty of extensive corruption as well, working to keep those favoring the status quo in power. Your position is one built on misinformation and ignorance, blind to reality and fact.[/QUOTE] Except not really, most of Israel is just really really conservative and vote for parties like them for the same reason murricans vote for Republicans. Of course even their proportional vote making it a small party zoo and their generally shit politics, comparing it to Iran which ranks [urk=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index]158 out of 167[/url] on the democracy index is just idiocy.
I’m having trouble to even grasp at what you’re getting at – disoriented ramblings aside, your post is polluted with a concerning amount of character attacks and strawmans, desperately looking for ways to delegitimize my arguments, by simply making them up. [QUOTE=R3N3GADE;33472947]have you stopped defending iran's right to attack civilians or is that still fair game[/quote] Case in point; right after the bat, I’m already having trouble taking what you say with any merit. [quote]your bizarre inability to recognise the inherent corruption of the iranian reigme (classic anti-western left hypocrisy - rage against american human rights violations while you ignore iranian atrocities, can't get over it) is, frankly, pathetic. [/quote] There’s significant distinction with Iranian nuclear weapons and human rights. I never denied Iranian human rights violations, are you even capable of bringing forth an argument without making it up? [quote]your attempts to dismiss my logic are equally flawed - please tell how iran bombing israeli nuclear sites will speed up the middle-eastern peace process, really, i'd love to hear how. [/quote] Are you that thick, It's an example of why your logic is extremely flawed, by citing UN Resolutions' that these sites breach, you somehow believe this gives Israel every right to take matters into their own hands. Using your warped line of logic, Iran has "every right" to bomb Israeli military targets since their army's actions are in breach of dozens of UN Resolutions and Int'l law. It is beyond me how someone would be able to twist that and purport it as my position. [quote]e: i mean seriously do you actually think diplomacy is going to work?[/QUOTE] Of course, and this is evident from the nuclear swap deal. Not that it matters to you, considering you have some weird obsession with war and military action.
FUCKING ZING I bet it took them all lunch to think of that one
[QUOTE=Devodiere;33473850]Nah, the only difference is people have a higher expectation of Israel. They're a first world nation with a lot of diplomatic, military and trade alliances with the leaders of the world, people are going to get pissed off when they do something wrong. Iran is in with old Libya, Venezuela and NK, containing them is first priority so whatever stupid backwards shit they do stays in their own country. You really want to compare police brutality and land siezing to executing dissenters and gays though, fine with me.[/quote] Not necessarily. Unlike Israel, there is broad consensus that the actions NK and Iran do domestically is absolutely deplorable. There are so many people and governments (not only willing just to ally with Israel) but to actually claim Israel does no wrong. This is what yields outrage whenever Israel does something deplorable - zealots are more than willing to justify it. Referring it to simply land seizing and police brutality belittles Israel's actions. I find it very cynical how committing extra-judicial killings, and [URL="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,656934,00.html"]even holding suspects for years without trial[/URL] can be reduced to something as police brutality. This is not including the fact you've omitted quite a lot of what they do in the occupied territories. [quote]Except not really, most of Israel is just really really conservative and vote for parties like them for the same reason murricans vote for Republicans. Of course even their proportional vote making it a small party zoo and their generally shit politics, comparing it to Iran which ranks [urk=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index]158 out of 167[/url] on the democracy index is just idiocy.[/QUOTE] Not sure how that's relevant. Democracy index only includes Israel proper, not the occupied territories where all the atrocities is occurring. Though I wonder what they'd like to say about Netanyahu[URL="http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/netanyahu-is-working-to-limit-free-speech-in-israel-labor-leader-says-1.395341"] limiting free speech[/URL], in Israel proper.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;33474344]Not necessarily. Unlike Israel, there is broad consensus that the actions NK and Iran do domestically is absolutely deplorable. There are so many people and governments (not only willing just to ally with Israel) but to actually claim Israel does no wrong. This is what yields outrage whenever Israel does something deplorable - zealots are more than willing to justify it. Referring it to simply land seizing and police brutality belittles Israel's actions. I find it very cynical how committing extra-judicial killings, and [URL="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,656934,00.html"]even holding suspects for years without trial[/URL] can be reduced to something as police brutality. This is not including the fact you've omitted quite a lot of what they do in the occupied territories. [/quote] I dunno about claiming they do no wrong, a lot of what I see says something along the lines of a right to defend itself which is justification rather than denial. And fuck off with your zealots and deplorable justification, arguing in the opposition to something isn't wrong and when it's already an iffy situation then what harm is it doing? Arguing over simplifying shit is going to go in a fucking circle. Extrajudicial killings and indefinite detention is not only something Israel does, but both the US and Iran do. The point was not that Israel is perfect but that Iran is a fucking nightmare, willing to concede that? [quote]Not sure how that's relevant. Democracy index only includes Israel proper, not the occupied territories where all the atrocities is occurring. Though I wonder what they'd like to say about Netanyahu[URL="http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/netanyahu-is-working-to-limit-free-speech-in-israel-labor-leader-says-1.395341"] limiting free speech[/URL], in Israel proper.[/QUOTE] It was in response to a claim that Israel uses corruption to maintain power, I think how Israel's government is elected is relevant to that. The territories aren't even a compatible scenario. And oh wow, they want to limit aid to international organisations to further their own goals, that's so much worse than [url=http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,672567,00.html]what Iran does[/url]. Do you see the pattern here? Iran<<<<<Israel, not Israel=perfect.
Would you people just stop it? I'm not justifying Israel in any way. Hell, I even want to get out of here as soon as possible. But Israel was created upon messed up grounds, and the entire situation is messed up. It was bound to end bad since the very beginning. Hell, the government is very corrupted as of now and how you say they act childish? You're actually correct, they're even childish during the Knesset discussions themselves. I fully agree with the Israeli government being complete bullshit. But right now, Iran is as much a threat to Israel than Israel is a threat to Iran. You could possibly say a (so far) cold war had started, and [B]both[/B] sides are messed up. Don't try to pick a side either because for a conflict as messed up as this there's no right side at the moment. I find it quite useless to argue because you could argue to no end. [B]Edit: [/B]Also, not to mention that this is a completely retaliatory procedure from Iran. Any country would do this when facing a potentially large threat.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;33474593]I dunno about claiming they do no wrong, a lot of what I see says something along the lines of a right to defend itself which is justification rather than denial.[/quote] Those are vibes sent whenever a resolution that is remotely critical of Israel is vetoed. It is also much more prevalent when an action Israel does yields international outrage. The U.S. doesn&#8217;t solely respond &#8220;Israel has right to defend itself&#8221; but the bought-Congress stumbles as they rush to pass a resolution defending whatever measure Israel takes. If you&#8217;re referring to actual people, not governments, then you are greatly mistaken. [quote]And fuck off with your zealots and deplorable justification, arguing in the opposition to something isn't wrong and when it's already an iffy situation then what harm is it doing?[/quote] Human rights violations isn&#8217;t &#8220;iffy&#8221; nor is home demolition or land theft. Committing ethnic cleansing - transferring an ingenious population from an occupied territory to somewhere else isn&#8217;t &#8220;iffy&#8221; either, it&#8217;s deplorable and disgusting, and there is no justification for this besides mindsets attributed to zealotry. Granted, I consider Israel&#8217;s military actions something that can be of dispute. [quote]Arguing over simplifying shit is going to go in a fucking circle. Extrajudicial killings and indefinite detention is not only something Israel does, but both the US and Iran do. The point was not that Israel is perfect but that Iran is a fucking nightmare, willing to concede that? And oh wow, they want to limit aid to international organisations to further their own goals, that's so much worse than [url=http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,672567,00.html]what Iran does[/url]. Do you see the pattern here? Iran<<<<<Israel, not Israel=perfect.[/QUOTE] Can you read? Israel has already drastically limited funding to domestic human rights groups, the link I posted is a bill to ban international organizations (e.g. EU) to fund these human rights group. Not sure how you comprehended it as limiting aid to international organizations but good job. Even if it passed or not, free speech is already limited to a concerning extent, it is illegal in Israel to boycott or identify any businesses that fund/create the settlements in the West Bank. This is not even something the U.S. did in the fucking 60s and Israel is diminishing the peaceful alternatives be against Israeli policies. Still unsure why you&#8217;re bringing Iran into this, I know they&#8217;re bad, we all know they&#8217;re bad. But sugarcoating what Israel does is not acceptable.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;33474816]Still unsure why you&#8217;re bringing Iran into this, I know they&#8217;re bad, we all know they&#8217;re bad. But sugarcoating what Israel does is not acceptable.[/QUOTE] Probably because this topic concerns Iran [i]and[/i] Israel. And I didn't see him "sugarcoating" anything with regards to Israel.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;33474864]Probably because this topic concerns Iran [i]and[/i] Israel. And I didn't see him "sugarcoating" anything with regards to Israel.[/QUOTE] If you&#8217;re referring to the OP, the subject at hand has shifted since then. Sugarcoating by oversimplifying Israel&#8217;s atrocities in comparison to Iran. I believe they were talking about how Israel can be trusted more than Iran when it comes nukes. If you really want to get into it, neither of the regimes can be can construed as mature enough to possess nukes, but that also goes to the U.S. considering their hand is deep in terrorism support, including many other nuclear powers. However that's not what I was talking about. I was responding to deliberately sugarcoated remarks, "oh it's only police brutality and land seizures" Not whether one regime can have a nuke or not.
The people in my country who are actually [I]asking[/I] for war with Iran scare the shit out of me. It isn't like the Iran/Israel tensions have any 'good guy', just the country NATO happens to back and the one that isn't backed. Maybe we should cut our foreign aid to Israel by a good amount until they stop dickwaving around the Middle East.
[QUOTE=Rankxerox;33459436]Let's just hope that its Israel that gets bombed of the map and not Iran.[/QUOTE] Or both
it's like a miniature cold war is taking place in the middle east
I still think that so long as we keep out of this, Iran and Israel will stay confined to eachother and we should be able to carry on fine. Again, this is their penis waving contest. We don't have any right to show ours off as well.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;33473923]I&#8217;m having trouble to even grasp at what you&#8217;re getting at &#8211; disoriented ramblings aside, your post is polluted with a concerning amount of character attacks and strawmans, desperately looking for ways to delegitimize my arguments, by simply making them up. Case in point; right after the bat, I&#8217;m already having trouble taking what you say with any merit. There&#8217;s significant distinction with Iranian nuclear weapons and human rights. I never denied Iranian human rights violations, are you even capable of bringing forth an argument without making it up? Are you that thick, It's an example of why your logic is extremely flawed, by citing UN Resolutions' that these sites breach, you somehow believe this gives Israel every right to take matters into their own hands. Using your warped line of logic, Iran has "every right" to bomb Israeli military targets since their army's actions are in breach of dozens of UN Resolutions and Int'l law. It is beyond me how someone would be able to twist that and purport it as my position. Of course, and this is evident from the nuclear swap deal. Not that it matters to you, considering you have some weird obsession with war and military action.[/QUOTE] sorry, i assumed you too were taking the iran-apologist tone of this thread in which the remarks quoted in the OP are actually justified. my mistake. except i'm not making it up. in the past, you've repeatedly glossed over tehran's inability to lead a country - in fact, i remember you stating that if iranian dissidents don't like their situation, they should simply leave and wait for change to occur. hence, i'm actually referring to your broader inability to understand tehran's unsuitability for control of state, let alone nuclear weapons, a position of mine which is vindicated by your further posts in which you state that both israel and iran are equally unsuitable of possessing nuclear arms, as well as the US, which is a ridiculous preposition. you're ignoring the obvious, again. the issue ultimately about iran having nuclear arms isn't that they've broken nuclear conventions - after all, if canada, for example, were creating nuclear arms in violation of conventions, there would be no contemplation of a tactical military strike on them. the issue here, starpluck, is that it's /iran/. iran, which destabilises both the middle east through control of proxy terror groups, e,.g. hamas and hezbollah, and has been linked to anti-US insurgencies in Iraq which destabilise Iraq. hence, iran, unlike canada, could not be trusted with nuclear weapons as they could (see: would) be used to destabilise the middle east, which is the fear of many middle-eastern countries. before you start spouting about how israel also has nuclear weapons, let's take a reality check - israel, presumably, has had nuclear weapons for a very long time. they have proven that they are trustworthy with them, through their clear track record. it is ISRAEL who can argue for the need for defensive nuclear weapons, not iran. you'll ignore this, ultimately, because the idea of iran as the innocent victim against western/zionist aggression suits your worldview better. but, whatever; it really doesn't matter to me whether you agree with me or not, because this is a teenagerish, left-biased internet forum, and any real angst over people not rating me zings and winners and etc would be akin to crying because i can't convince stormfront that jews aren't taking over the world. and finally - you agree that diplomacy will not solve the iranian nuclear problem. what will, then? more sanctions? perhaps. i'd also like to find out why you think i have an obsession with "war and military action", considering that i've not advocated war - i suppose it helps me fit in your little "conservative" box, then. [editline]29th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Starpluck;33474344]Not necessarily. Unlike Israel, there is broad consensus that the actions NK and Iran do domestically is absolutely deplorable. There are so many people and governments (not only willing just to ally with Israel) but to actually claim Israel does no wrong. This is what yields outrage whenever Israel does something deplorable - zealots are more than willing to justify it. Referring it to simply land seizing and police brutality belittles Israel's actions. I find it very cynical how committing extra-judicial killings, and [URL="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,656934,00.html"]even holding suspects for years without trial[/URL] can be reduced to something as police brutality. This is not including the fact you've omitted quite a lot of what they do in the occupied territories. Not sure how that's relevant. Democracy index only includes Israel proper, not the occupied territories where all the atrocities is occurring. Though I wonder what they'd like to say about Netanyahu[URL="http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/netanyahu-is-working-to-limit-free-speech-in-israel-labor-leader-says-1.395341"] limiting free speech[/URL], in Israel proper.[/QUOTE] except in the middle-eastern situation the bias you speak of goes the other way - against israel. israeli inability to manage an occupied territory and uphold human rights is often singled out by the west - meanwhile, the acts of other state and entities, such as the hamas faction in palestine proper, are ignored. i mean, you'll find articles, and posters like you, writing of netanyahu limiting free speech, but failing to consider the surrounding area. this is taking actions out of a global context to single out israel as "the bad guy" when they actually act a lot better on human rights issues than surrounding entities, which are ignored. fp's biggest issue - sins of omission.
Let me try to end this whole debate right now. Israel and Iran have both committed their own atrocities against minorities and dissidents, I'm not going to put one side over the other. The fact remains however, that Israel currently has the capabilities to level the Iranian military within an hour, far beyond the strength of Iran.
-snip-
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;33484407]Israel currently has the capabilities to level the Iranian military within an hour, far beyond the strength of Iran.[/QUOTE] no lol
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;33484407]Let me try to end this whole debate right now. Israel and Iran have both committed their own atrocities against minorities and dissidents, I'm not going to put one side over the other. The fact remains however, that Israel currently has the capabilities to level the Iranian military within an hour, far beyond the strength of Iran.[/QUOTE] lol. Despite your uninformed opinion-they have a advanced military. The only strongpoint the Israelis have against Iran would be Israel's F-16 late blocks and other modern aircraft. Iran has F-14E's and modernized Super Cobra's, and other US cold-war period equipment. You might also argue "well they have Merkavas", Iran has a shitload of anti-tank guided missiles. By far, Iran might win the battles as they have a much larger army but alot of territory to defend. Its not as simple as walking through sand, Iran contains alot of interesting geography.
[QUOTE=mark6789;33484499]you guys hear that? [video=youtube;sWS-FoXbjVI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI[/video][/QUOTE] Serious discussion mate.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;33474816]Those are vibes sent whenever a resolution that is remotely critical of Israel is vetoed. It is also much more prevalent when an action Israel does yields international outrage. The U.S. doesn’t solely respond “Israel has right to defend itself” but the bought-Congress stumbles as they rush to pass a resolution defending whatever measure Israel takes. If you’re referring to actual people, not governments, then you are greatly mistaken.[/quote] Again, big difference between taking their side and claiming they are paragons of morality. It's not just a matter of they're either pond scum or saints and you should know better than that. Defence of them is not a sign that everything they do is allowed just as much as you arguing against means you want to see them nuked from the face of the earth. [quote]Human rights violations isn’t “iffy” nor is home demolition or land theft. Committing ethnic cleansing - transferring an ingenious population from an occupied territory to somewhere else isn’t “iffy” either, it’s deplorable and disgusting, and there is no justification for this besides mindsets attributed to zealotry. Granted, I consider Israel’s military actions something that can be of dispute.[/quote] And the Nuremberg trials were just for show seeing as they totally executed everyone they brought in, right? International crimes are no different to civil crimes in that they require investigation and representation to find out what has been done. There is no crime that is such an absolute that it is worthy of being shot on the spot and despite your complaints about simplifying the terrible crimes, sensationalising them is just as biased. [quote]Can you read? Israel has already drastically limited funding to domestic human rights groups, the link I posted is a bill to ban international organizations (e.g. EU) to fund these human rights group. Not sure how you comprehended it as limiting aid to international organizations but good job. Even if it passed or not, free speech is already limited to a concerning extent, it is illegal in Israel to boycott or identify any businesses that fund/create the settlements in the West Bank. This is not even something the U.S. did in the fucking 60s and Israel is diminishing the peaceful alternatives be against Israeli policies. Still unsure why you’re bringing Iran into this, I know they’re bad, we all know they’re bad. But sugarcoating what Israel does is not acceptable.[/QUOTE] Oh wow, I completely did read that and phrased it in a way that you misinterpreted, I guess I'm pretty stupid aren't I. If you're done saying that I can't read, go back to the post I actually responded to and read about how it was quite literally, someone comparing Iran to Israel with Iran in a good light. Not the OP, the post I directly quoted. And you want to pick on my wording not being extreme enough when you know very well Iran is worse.
[QUOTE=DarkendSky;33475023]The people in my country who are actually [I]asking[/I] for war with Iran scare the shit out of me. It isn't like the Iran/Israel tensions have any 'good guy', just the [b]country NATO[/b] happens to back and the one that isn't backed. Maybe we should cut our foreign aid to Israel by a good amount until they stop dickwaving around the Middle East.[/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO]NATO isn't a country.[/url] Also, foreign aid will never be cut to Israel because they pretty much rely on it. Israel is also the US' doorway into the middle-east and their little spy telling them who Santa is going to visit this year armed with M16 assault rifles and LIMAWS. Israel just needs the US to tell it to calm down, I don't think the US really cares though.. I think they want a slice of this cake if anything happens. [i]Oil...[/i]
[QUOTE=joshdasmif;33488675][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO]NATO isn't a country.[/url][/QUOTE] Way to understand the post bro, he said that Israel is the country that NATO happens to back
[QUOTE=Chrille;33489032]Way to understand the post bro, he said that Israel is the country that NATO happens to back[/QUOTE] I see, bad grammar caused this.
I continue to be unsurprised. At this point, the only resolution to this conflict that would surprise me is a tearful make-up between Israel and the Middle-East, followed by a happy resolution that benefits everyone.
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