Trump to Join Titans of Homophobia at Orlando Conference
68 replies, posted
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50858392]Seconding this. Sensationalist Headlines at its finest
Trump will probably be asked about lgbt issues at the conference and tell them we have to take care of all Americans or something like that. The focus will be on religious issues in government. Until Trump outright says that he hates the LGBT community or calls derides them as degenerate fags or something obscene like that I don't think you can say he is against the LGBT movement.
[/QUOTE]
we can say it when
a) he chooses the most anti-lgbt conservative as his VP
b) accepted & chose not to challenge the official platform that seeks to fight for 'traditional' marriage and supports conversion therapy which is more or less torture camps for lgbt youth
c) said he supports traditional marriage several times in interviews several times
d) says he didn't like overturning the defense of the marriage act which was the highlight of the lgbt civil rights movement in the last decade
e) did not speak of any policy supporting lgbt other than "i will protect you" which is absolutely meaningless
f) when asked if he still believed sided with transgender on the whole bathroom issue, he immediately 180'd and said it should be "up to the states"
why do you project on him so much when he has done nothing to show for it?
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50858418]I'd say at least 1/3rd of the American population are idiots, no question[/QUOTE]
1/3rd of the Earth's population is incredibly stupid, [I]minimum[/I]
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;50858426]we can say it when
a) he chooses the most anti-lgbt conservative as his VP
b) accepted & chose not to challenge the official platform that seeks to fight for 'traditional' marriage and supports conversion therapy which is more or less torture camps for lgbt youth
c) said he supports traditional marriage several times in interviews several times
d) says he didn't like overturning the defense of the marriage act which was the highlight of the lgbt civil rights movement in the last decade
e) did not speak of any policy supporting lgbt other than "i will protect you" which is absolutely meaningless
f) when asked if he still believed sided with transgender on the whole bathroom issue, he immediately 180'd and said it should be "up to the states"
why do you project on him so much when he has done nothing to show for it?[/QUOTE]
LGBT issues are not at the forefront of this election, and especially not with the GOP. He picked Pence to balance the ticket to secure conservative voters. The LGBT social issues are not as great of a concern as the economic and security issues as of now, which is why he doesn't focus on them. On top of that part of his GOP voterbase is still backwards and doesn't want the GOP to do anything with LGBT issues. That said, he has addressed the LGBT community directly as equal American citizens whose lifestyle is worthy of protection in his speech during the Orlando shooting, but rather than focusing on this the media said Trump was gloating that he was right on twitter. He brought it up again during his nomination acceptance speech and thanked the crowd for the positive response on directly addressing the LGBT community.
Trump is probably the best thing to happen for LGBT conservatives because the GOP has treated them like shit or ignored their existance and issues altogether. I've written about this in previous threads and there's been extensive discussion on it from both sides. Positions aren't binary, but rulings often are, and disagreeing with a ruling doesn't necessarily equate to revealing one's position on an issue. The GOP is shit and I hope it burns to the ground following this election, but at the very least Trump respects the LGBT community and having a conservative president hold that view would be a very progressive milestone.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;50858097]It's a conference for religious leaders to talk to politicians. The blog title and article describe it as some sort of LGBTQ hate rally. In fact, the blog takes very little information from the actual source, which correctly paints it as Trump pandering to religious conservatives for votes, uses guilt by association, and over inflates the "anti-LGBTQ" point of view just to rile up readers. It's Brietbart/Gawker shit-tier "journalism", if you can even call it that.[/QUOTE]
They don't call it an LGBTQ hate rally, they say it's an anti-LGBTQ conference, because it is a conference of people lobbying politicians against pro-LGBTQ policy.
Nothing the Slate article reports is false and calling it "shit tier journalism" just because you disagree with it is childish.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50858392]Seconding this. Sensationalist Headlines at its finest
Trump will probably be asked about lgbt issues at the conference and tell them we have to take care of all Americans or something like that. The focus will be on religious issues in government. Until Trump outright says that he hates the LGBT community or calls derides them as degenerate fags or something obscene like that I don't think you can say he is against the LGBT movement.[/QUOTE]
Religious issues in government. Like LGBT rights. This shit isn't difficult.
And no, building off lolwutdude's post, we can definitely say he has an anti-LGBTQ platform including one of the strongest governors against equality as his VP so we don't have to wait for him to talk about how much he hates the gays.
The title of the article doesn't even call it an Anti-LGBT conference. It's a [I]Religious[/I] conference hosted by Newt Gingrich to promote a book of the same title. It's only anti-LGBT by the fact that very religious conservatives tend to be against LGBT lifestyles. It's not like Trumps going to go to God Hates Fags rally and talk shit about gay people lmao.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rediscovering_God_in_America[/url]
Changed the loaded title to the source's because the OP's it made it sound a lot worse than it is.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;50858097]It's a conference for religious leaders to talk to politicians. The blog title and article describe it as some sort of LGBTQ hate rally. In fact, the blog takes very little information from the actual source, which correctly paints it as Trump pandering to religious conservatives for votes, uses guilt by association, and over inflates the "anti-LGBTQ" point of view just to rile up readers. It's Brietbart/Gawker shit-tier "journalism", if you can even call it that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50858392]Seconding this. Sensationalist Headlines at its finest
Trump will probably be asked about lgbt issues at the conference and tell them we have to take care of all Americans or something like that. The focus will be on religious issues in government. Until Trump outright says that he hates the LGBT community or calls derides them as degenerate fags or something obscene like that I don't think you can say he is against the LGBT movement.[/QUOTE]
If Hillary were to do the exact same thing, I doubt you'd be singing the same tune.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50858534]LGBT issues are not at the forefront of this election, and especially not with the GOP. He picked Pence to balance the ticket to secure conservative voters.[/QUOTE]
Okay and that's a fine strategic choice but with the benefits of picking a safe conservative comes the downsides of your "pro LGBT" narrative crumbling around your head.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50858534]The LGBT social issues are not as great of a concern as the economic and security issues as of now, which is why he doesn't focus on them.[/QUOTE]
What a load of horse shit. It's not about prioritizing civil rights over a wall that isn't going to be built or a ban that isn't going to work. No one is asking him to make LGBT rights the center of his platform. They just don't want him to be so openly opposed to it. You can focus on more than two policies at a time you know.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50858534]That said, he has addressed the LGBT community directly as equal American citizens whose lifestyle is worthy of protection in his speech during the Orlando shooting, but rather than focusing on this the media said Trump was gloating that he was right on twitter. He brought it up again during his nomination acceptance speech and thanked the crowd for the positive response on directly addressing the LGBT community.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, lip service when it's convenient. That's literally all you have to oppose countless statements and campaign decisions that reflect badly on his LGBT record. What the fuck are people supposed to think when he says "I like gay people so much I will ban Muslims from killing them, also the judge I nominate is going to overrule the DOMA decision, re-ban gay marriage, and I think states should have the right to discriminate against gays and transgender people". It looks mighty unbalanced from here.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50858534]Trump is probably the best thing to happen for LGBT conservatives because the GOP has treated them like shit or ignored their existance and issues altogether. [/QUOTE]
You keep saying this and it literally doesn't matter because being marginally better than other conservatives (except Kasich) just doesn't mean much.
[QUOTE]the “Rediscovering God in America” event[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]anti-LGBT conference[/QUOTE]
sensationalist headline of the year
[QUOTE=OvB;50858551]The title of the article doesn't even call it an Anti-LGBT conference. It's a [I]Religious[/I] conference hosted by Newt Gingrich to promote a book of the same title.[B] It's only anti-LGBT by the fact that very religious conservatives tend to be against LGBT lifestyles.[/B] It's not like Trumps going to go to God Hates Fags rally and talk shit about gay people lmao.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rediscovering_God_in_America[/url][/QUOTE]
Well and also they are going to talk about how best to influence politicians to institute anti-LGBT policy and their founder has an open anti-homosexual agenda. But I'm sure it's a completely innocent meeting over strictly private faith matters.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50858392]Idiots is such a kind way to label 1/3 to 1/2 of the American population[/QUOTE]
It is. I can think of much worse names for people like that.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50858578]their founder has an open anti-homosexual agenda[/QUOTE]
cool, so do the majority of religious republicans in the US. your point?
I don't think Trump will go out of his way to do anything groundbreaking in regards to LGBT rights, but I don't think he's [I]anti-LGBT[/I]. I think he's just indifferent. I haven't honestly seen enough of what he's said/proposed about LGBT issues to have a solid grasp. I don't recall Trump saying anything for or against it save the few minor comments here and there.
[QUOTE=Monkah;50858568]sensationalist headline of the year[/QUOTE]
It's a religious conference with the purpose of combining matters of faith with matters of the state headlined and lead by people who have publicly supported an anti-LGBT agenda. It's not sensationalist if it's true and inconvenient to the narrative that Trump just loves gay people.
[QUOTE=Monkah;50858568]sensationalist headline of the year[/QUOTE]
Homophobia is rooted deep in the religious Far-Right, just like racism.
[QUOTE=Monkah;50858568]sensationalist headline of the year[/QUOTE]
Sometimes groups use less conspicuous names in order to sound less terrible. A group is against women's rights to abortion or birth control? They're "pro-life". A group believes homosexuals should be sent to reeducation camps? They just want people to "rediscover God".
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;50858534]LGBT issues are not at the forefront of this election, and especially not with the GOP. He picked Pence to balance the ticket to secure conservative voters. The LGBT social issues are not as great of a concern as the economic and security issues as of now, which is why he doesn't focus on them. On top of that part of his GOP voterbase is still backwards and doesn't want the GOP to do anything with LGBT issues. That said, he has addressed the LGBT community directly as equal American citizens whose lifestyle is worthy of protection in his speech during the Orlando shooting, but rather than focusing on this the media said Trump was gloating that he was right on twitter. He brought it up again during his nomination acceptance speech and thanked the crowd for the positive response on directly addressing the LGBT community.
Trump is probably the best thing to happen for LGBT conservatives because the GOP has treated them like shit or ignored their existance and issues altogether. I've written about this in previous threads and there's been extensive discussion on it from both sides. Positions aren't binary, but rulings often are, and disagreeing with a ruling doesn't necessarily equate to revealing one's position on an issue. The GOP is shit and I hope it burns to the ground following this election, but at the very least Trump respects the LGBT community and having a conservative president hold that view would be a very progressive milestone.[/QUOTE]
this is a bunch of hoopla, inferences, and projection to try make trump look like some sort of lgbt freedom fighter when in reality he doesn't give a shit
the entire orlando speech was a laughable attempt of trying to make democrats look like the anti-lgbt party even they were the only party of the two that actively fought and made grounds. you can try stop bullshitting when in we have transcripts online:
[URL]http://time.com/4367120/orlando-shooting-donald-trump-transcript/[/URL]
the entire speech was literally: "im better for lgbt rights cause i blame muslims while democrats dont". thats literally it, of course hes not gonna say hes glad lgbt is dead, he went for the typical PR route of saying he cares about the lives except he sprinkled radical islam on top of it
and there hasn't been an extensive discussion that went anywhere because it was literally trump's side trying to say hes secretly pro-lgbt while ignoring every single point or argument made that trump's actions and words are contrary to that. and of course no one is gonna fucking boo anyone supporting their nominee
[B]there has not been a single policy laid out by trump nor his platform that speaks favorably or supportive of lgbt rights[/B]
simply stating your support for lgbt is absolutely [B][I]useless[/I][/B]
theres nothing in words
but this is the problem, there is absolutely nothing that can convince you that trump doesn't give a shit about lgbt rights nor their movement. you've already made up your mind and go through mental gymnastics to persuade your beloved trump secretly loves lgbt and that hes just doing things to get through the election. but when he gets elected, he'll immediately do a 180, not appoint conservative judges, and say "AH-HA! I SECRETLY LOVED THE LGBT ALL ALONG, THEIR RIGHTS ARE STAYING CONSERVA-CUCKS!"
if you apply any other logic to the likes of ted cruz and other social conservatives, you'd call them rightfully homophobic
ted cruz and his ilks never ever outright comes out & say god hates fags. they come out and say they support 'states right' to choose but they still consider lgbt their constituents and will 'protect' them
its typical PR statements backed up with absolutely no action
[QUOTE=Monkah;50858588]cool, so do the majority of religious republicans in the US. your point?[/QUOTE]
his point... was stated in the part of the post you left out?
are you having a stroke?
[QUOTE=OvB;50858599]I don't think Trump will go out of his way to do anything groundbreaking in regards to LGBT rights, but I don't think he's [I]anti-LGBT[/I]. I think he's just indifferent. I haven't honestly seen enough of what he's said/proposed about LGBT issues to have a solid grasp. I don't recall Trump saying anything for or against it save the few minor comments here and there.[/QUOTE]
He opposes same sex marriages and says transgender issues regarding bathrooms should be left to the state. On the pro side he says he likes gay people, just not enough for them to have equal rights. I don't think indifferent is good enough.
[QUOTE=Monkah;50858588]cool, so do the majority of religious republicans in the US. your point?[/QUOTE]
My point is stop pretending like this is something that it isn't.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50858639]My point is stop pretending like this is something that it isn't.[/QUOTE]
I feel like you're making it into something more than what it is. It's a political evangelical meeting. And Trump isn't the only one of the Republican candidates going:
[quote]All of the 2016 presidential hopefuls were invited to events during the primaries and caucuses, but only Texas Senator Ted Cruz, former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, then-Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal, former Texas Governor Rick Perry, and Florida Senator Marco Rubio agreed to come to the closed-door sessions.[/quote]
I'm reading it as your run-of-the-mill evangelist meeting where people get together and talk about how it's a damn shame that you can't say Christmas anymore or how there's no bible study in public school and how those[I] gays[/I] people closed a bakery. Evangelists don't like homosexuality. That's not a new thing. These sorts of things have been a part of Campaign Trail forever. You go meet with the evanglists and tell them some made up story to get votes about how you were a perfect choir boy or studied hard in Sunday school and how when you're president you're gonna put Christ back in blahblahblah. They're going to talk about politics. How there's not enough God in school. How homosexuality is a sin and is ruining X thing. Trump is going to talk about his repeal to the Johnson Amendment.
I don't believe there's a bigger conspiracy here.
[QUOTE=OvB;50858681]I feel like you're making it into something more than what it is. It's a political evangelical meeting. And Trump isn't the only one of the Republican candidates going:
I'm reading it as your run-of-the-mill evangelist meeting where people get together and talk about how it's a damn shame that you can't say Christmas anymore or how there's no bible study in public school and how those[I] gays[/I] people closed a bakery. Evangelists don't like homosexuality. That's not a new thing. These sorts of things have been a part of Campaign Trail forever. You go meet with the evanglists and tell them some made up story to get votes about how you were a perfect choir boy or studied hard in Sunday school and how when you're president you're gonna put Christ back in blahblahblah. They're going to talk about politics. How there's not enough God in school. How homosexuality is a sin and is ruining X thing. Trump is going to talk about his repeal to the Johnson Amendment.
I don't believe there's a bigger conspiracy here.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying there is a bigger conspiracy here. I'm saying it's exactly what it is. I'm quoting their founder. You are telling me he is going to be joined by such esteemed colleagues as Mike "Resist Judicial Tyranny" Huckabee and Rick "Gays shouldn't be able to serve in the military" Perry and trying to make it seem like this is okay. And they aren't very old either, at least not this particular one.
Fuck I'm not even saying that this shouldn't be expected, I'm pointing out how blindingly naive the people saying "sensationalist headlines!" are by trying to paint this as a totally innocent faith meeting.
[editline]10th August 2016[/editline]
Like your post seems to disagree with my post but you are proving my point exactly that they are either blind or incredibly naive to say that this is inaccurate reporting?????
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50858616]Sometimes groups use less conspicuous names in order to sound less terrible. A group is against women's rights to abortion or birth control? They're "pro-life".[/QUOTE]
The funny thing about this is:
[quote]Sometimes groups use less conspicuous names in order to sound less terrible. A group is against protecting an unborn child's life from murder? They're "pro-choice".[/QUOTE]
The same thing you use to make other things look bad are the same things they use to make you look bad. It all depends on the perspective. To them, [I]you're[/I] the one in the wrong. We get stuck in a loop and get polarized in our own little pro-this/that camps until everyone ether with you or against you. Middle ground and bi-partisanship are dead in America because everything is a sport now.
#AskTheGays
[QUOTE=OvB;50858715]The funny thing about this is:
The same thing you use to make other things look bad are the same things they use to make you look bad. It all depends on the perspective. To them, [I]you're[/I] the one in the wrong. We get stuck in a loop and get polarized in our own little pro-this/that camps until everyone ether with you or against you. Middle ground and bi-partisanship are dead in America because everything is a sport now.[/QUOTE]
The problem with trying to be the high riding moderate that is above partisian bickering is that calling abortion murder is[I] fucking retarded[/I] and a grievous misuse of the most liberal definitions of the word murder.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50858711]Like your post seems to disagree with my post but you are proving my point exactly that they are either blind or incredibly naive to say that this is inaccurate reporting?????[/QUOTE]
I changed the title because the point of the conference isn't strictly anti-gay. They're going to discuss a bunch of shit they think is relevant. It was a bad title because it made it seem like Trump was going to be speaking at a hate group rally specifically targeting homosexuality (as in the one and only topic of discussion). The only reason this thread caught my eye at first is because the title made it seem like he was going to speak with Westboro Baptist Church or something. I was relieved to find it's your run-of-the-mill cookie-cutter Evangelical conference where they talk about all sorts of shit and also [I]the gays.[/I]
I mean shit if I was a candidate I'd go to these things because it's an opportunity to reach a broader voter base, [I]plus[/I] if you're going to make a statement about being pro-lgbt why not at a place full of people that vehemently disagree with you? It's like there's a feeling that if you're voluntarily in a room with someone, then you must share that persons opinion to a T.
Plus the fact that we're even still talking about the title means the title was obviously meant for shock-value, as it was a deviation from what the title of the source material was. It's pure clickbait.
[editline]9th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50858720]The problem with trying to be the high riding moderate that is above partisian bickering is that calling abortion murder is[I] fucking retarded[/I] and a grievous misuse of the most liberal definitions of the word murder.[/QUOTE]
I'm pro-abortion myself, but go ask an easy majority of Christians and they will say it is a form of murder.
[QUOTE=OvB;50858753]I changed the title because the point of the conference isn't strictly anti-gay. They're going to discuss a bunch of shit they think is relevant. It was a bad title because it made it seem like Trump was going to be speaking at a hate group rally specifically targeting homosexuality (as in the one and only topic of discussion). The only reason this thread caught my eye at first is because the title made it seem like he was going to speak with Westboro Baptist Church or something. I was revealed to find it's your run-of-the-mill cookie-cutter Evangelical conference where they talk about all sorts of shit and also [I]the gays.[/I]
I mean shit if I was a candidate I'd go to these things because it's an opportunity to reach a broader voter base, [I]plus[/I] if you're going to make a statement about being pro-lgbt why not at a place full of people that vehemently disagree with you? It's like there's a feeling that if you're voluntarily in a room with someone, then you must share that persons opinion to a T.
Plus the fact that we're even still talking about the title means the title was obviously meant for shock-value, as it was a deviation from what the title of the source material was. It's pure clickbait.[/QUOTE]
Are we seriously going to entertain the notion that Trump is going to show up to the meeting for one of the very few demos that he actually carries an appreciable lead in and speak out against their agenda?
You are bending over backwards to give Trump and this "run of the mill cookie cutter Evangelical conference" the benefit of the doubt to satisfy your insistence on being in the middle rather than being objective and seeing this for what it is and the only reason we were talking about the title was because I was trying to make the case that it wasn't sensationalist at all when you and Monkah basically vindicated that. It wasn't a sensationalist title, it hurt their feelings and put a crack in their narrative of Donald Trump, Paladin for the Gays.
"You won't believe where Donald Trump will be speaking next!" is clickbait
"Trump attends anti-LGBT conference" is stone cold fact
[editline]10th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=OvB;50858753]
I'm pro-abortion myself, but go ask an easy majority of Christians and they will say it is a form of murder.[/QUOTE]
Okay. Whats the point? Like my argument was never "Wow gee I'm surprised Trump is going to go hang out with these people that don't think gay people deserve rights".
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50858771]Are we seriously going to entertain the notion that Trump is going to show up to the meeting for one of the very few demos that he actually carries an appreciable lead in and speak out against their agenda?[/QUOTE]
That's not at all what I said. I said if I was a candidate. I am not Trump. I don't see any scenario where Trump would stick his neck out like that for something I don't think he particularly cares for in the first place. If (when) he's asked about homosexuality his answer will be *vague non-answer*, or double-downing on Gay people are okay, but gay marriage isn't like most Republicans seem to follow these days.
[QUOTE=OvB;50858781]That's not at all what I said. I said if I was a candidate. I am not Trump. I don't see any scenario where Trump would stick his neck out like that for something I don't think he particularly cares for in the first place. If (when) he's asked about homosexuality his answer will be *vague non-answer*, or double-downing on Gay people are okay, but gay marriage isn't like most Republicans seem to follow these days.[/QUOTE]
Okay so Donald Trump is attending a conference where being LGBT-friendly wouldn't do him any favors. In fact you could say this conference is decidedly anti-LGBT. And that more than likely he will say something anti-LGBT, even if it's marginally less anti-LGBT than the rabidly anti-LGBT right that doesn't have to worry about balancing independents with the evangelicals. So please explain to me what was wrong with the original title.
I don't even disagree with the change, I'm just not seeing how it was sensationalist or clickbait. You are literally explaining it the way OP explained it just with more words.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;50857951]Christianity has this weird complex in which they think that people are always trying to destroy it.[/QUOTE]
Hell, it's part of the religion. No pun intended.
The antichrist is relatively commonly interpreted to be "someone who will gain much fame and / or power, and is not Christian or not Christian enough".
So pretty much any politician or celebrity could secretly be trying to destroy Christianity, at least according to the more fundamentalist sects.
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50857727]And to think that some LGBT people here actually had plans to vote for Trump over Hillary.[/QUOTE]
Those few are probably changing their minds by this point. If not, well, they were probably against same sex marriage in first place anyway.
Yes, there are openly gay people who oppose same sex marriage. Milo Yiannopoulos is one of them.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50859554]Those few are probably changing their minds by this point. If not, well, they were probably against same sex marriage in first place anyway.
Yes, there are openly gay people who oppose same sex marriage. Milo Yiannopoulos is one of them.[/QUOTE]
It's like the women in the past who were against feminism and breaking open traditional female gender roles. People tend to vote against their interests all the time because of the lies that's peddled to them, as Trump's supporters show.
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