Pirate Group (3DM) Suspends New Cracks To Measure Impact On Sales - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Egevened;49691557]but this is the entire point people are making, harddrive or not, it puts unneccessary strain onto the computer that would not be there if denuvo wasn't[/QUOTE] 'unneccessary strain'. What? Do you realize our computers don't use 64 Megabytes of Ram anymore, right? [editline]7th February 2016[/editline] Also a lot of people are ignoring that Optimization in general has been going down the shitter, even with this form of DRM on it. If it was only because this DRM was on it, that would make sense. But its just a general trend of terrible optimization.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49694662]i can probably count on one hand how many games were modded (aside from that dumbass sweetfx shit) in 2015 it's not really a big deal, especially when most modders just moved into indie development because of the quality of tools they've been given as of late[/QUOTE] modding is more than content, it can be performance related too like dark souls

[QUOTE=gdfsgdfg;49692389]I bet 10$ denuvo is made up of former crackers.[/QUOTE] securom developers then you would be rich again

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49694692]except games are still being modded that way with denuvo regardless just look at mgs5 or jc3 model replacements in mgs's case and adding multiplayer functionality in jc3 denuvo probably hinders some modding capabilities but it doesn't make it impossible and generally games aren't even modded these days even with a full suite of tools being given to the community (look at dying light)[/QUOTE] most uses of it place anti-tamper on the drm, or simply just to protect crackers from cracking whatever the game uses to check rights

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49694692]except games are still being modded that way with denuvo regardless just look at mgs5 or jc3 model replacements in mgs's case and adding multiplayer functionality in jc3 denuvo probably hinders some modding capabilities but it doesn't make it impossible and generally games aren't even modded these days even with a full suite of tools being given to the community (look at dying light)[/QUOTE] Even DAI has some limited mods, and that wasn't designed to be modded in any way whatsoever from the start. Denuvo games can be modded, but you need to give people the proper tools to do so, why the fuck would DRM prevent games from being moddable? What mods touch the executable files? Alright, I'm going to discount any graphical injectors, fair point there, but other than that?

[QUOTE=Untouch;49694287]denuvo means no modding, which means I'm not buying the game[/QUOTE] do you not buy games then

Dont own any games with denuvo, does it kill mod support? [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=cdr248;49694939]do you not buy games then[/QUOTE] are you under the impression that there arent any games with mod support? what kind of shitpost is this just cause especially has been known for it's vibrant modding community and it's been stuck with denuvo for 3.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49695289]as far as i know denuvo doesn't kill mod support but it could possibly (like most drms) make executable and dll fuckery tricky also yeah there's barely any games out there these days that you can do actual scripting or asset replacement/adding in anymore[/QUOTE] most games worth making mods for have long release cycles, there are tons of games out there but they are mostly older games by nature. We did get fallout 4 in 2015 though. Im just worried denuvo will preclude those communities from ever forming to begin with on newer games, especially just cause. They took features from just cause 2 mods but if denuvo prevents modding on just cause 3 there goes the community. Same shit happened to elite dangerous, they suddenly decided right before release to kill the promised offline mode and all potential modding with it, it really sucked. made even worse because of the really arbitrary balancing decisions in that game, it could be far improved with just a run over the values but NOPE.

[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;49692336][img]http://puu.sh/mZxZ4/b791699557.jpg[/img] C'mon man. It's right on their [url=http://www.denuvo.com/]website[/url].[/QUOTE] They say nothing about [B]random access memory[/B], only storage memory. It does hinder the performance of the game.

Genuinely interested in this, and got me an idea on things. What if a crack maker made a time-limited crack? Say it could be played for 24 hours total before locking down. Would this increase sales? It'd live up to the whole "try before buy" arguement

[QUOTE=alexglitch;49690383] And of course, publishers will always find a new scapegoat for when their anally-annihilated golden goose suddenly stops giving the Dan-Bilzerian-wannabe CEOs new cruise ships and hot naked bitches holding Pina Coladas.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, are you Max Payne?

[QUOTE=Spor;49697499]Holy shit, are you Max Payne?[/QUOTE] What do you mean by that? I'm not familiar with the game, and the movie sucked ass. Back to topic: I used to frequent a certain Russian website about piracy, and the difference between Denuvo can be seen in the chat room: either they pop the champagne for CODEX releasing the full magnet of the cracked Fallout 4, only 8 minutes after the game has been released in the first timezone; or people shitposting and spamming the GTAV threads for 6 weeks after the PC release and praying over 3DM's tweets about the crack's progress. Yes, Denuvo makes huge progress in the anti-piracy department, but as long as mankind and internet connections still exists, there will be demands, and there will be crackers.

[QUOTE=helifreak;49694549]Never had problems with UPlay[/QUOTE] Let me quote a little tail of mine: [QUOTE=Coolboy;48673188] Also, fuck UPlay, once my password just stopped working all of a sudden but I could still login on the uplay/ubisoft website. The fault? After a fuck-ton of password changes and clueless support, I figured the UPlay client couldn't handle the full length of the password that was allowed. :suicide:[/QUOTE] Effectively shutting it down for weeks, point is, DRM systems all have implications you can't avoid no matter how good they are executed.

[QUOTE=alexglitch;49697589]What do you mean by that? I'm not familiar with the game, and the movie sucked ass.[/QUOTE] He has a [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jE04lHFdUA]similar manner of speech.[/url]

[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;49690312]It means that for at least the next year, any games using Denuvo (which means Mankind Divided, the new Hitman, Mass Effect: Andromeda and a slew of other high profile games) will be uncrackable.[/QUOTE] Is Denuvo actually so hard to crack that 3DM is the only group that can crack it? That's a bold claim, but considering most of the good western cracking groups were raided over the past decade and are in prison or quit I guess I could see that. From what people have said in this thread about it, it's just anti-debugging features and hardware GUIDs, nothing new here.

[QUOTE=Tools;49697320]Genuinely interested in this, and got me an idea on things. What if a crack maker made a time-limited crack? Say it could be played for 24 hours total before locking down. Would this increase sales? It'd live up to the whole "try before buy" arguement[/QUOTE] Another cracker group would take it and make it work properly.

[QUOTE=gdfsgdfg;49692389]I bet 10$ denuvo is made up of former crackers.[/QUOTE] That is probably the case, a lot of experts in the antivirus field used to be the ones who created the viruses.

[QUOTE=mix999;49697877]That is probably the case, a lot of experts in the antivirus field used to be the ones who created the viruses.[/QUOTE] Cyber security is one of the few security industries where your past typically doesn't bar you from entry, any experience is generally a bonus.

[QUOTE=damnatus;49697277]They say nothing about [B]random access memory[/B], only storage memory. It does hinder the performance of the game.[/QUOTE] Based on what exactly?

[QUOTE=Tobba;49697983]Based on what exactly?[/QUOTE] My claim on it impacting performance? Simple deduction. It's supposed to constantly encrypt data, that can't be done without utilizing resources. Edit: [URL="https://exelab.ru/f/index.php?action=vthread&forum=13&topic=19719&page=3#17"]There's an analysis of sorts[/URL] which states that, while again proving that it doesn't damage SSDs, it runs lots and lots of code irrelevant to the game itself, but it's in Russian so whoops V:v:V

I would find it very poetic if piracy does, in fact, affect sales Not that anyone would accept it because they'll say you can't count lost piracy

This won't change anything. The whole discussion about Denuvo is also kinda pointless in a sense. I wonder why it wasn't used on more games yet. Anyways, 3DM is not even considered a real scene group. Their way of disabling denuvo in the past caused a lot of bugs and problems in their releases. More known names like SKiDROW, CODEX etc. actually managed to fully remove Denuvo. 3DM was just faster to make a somewhat playable version. Overall 3DM is just the big Chinese cracker, they have cracks out fast but often cause a lot of bugs. Proper scene releases might take a day or two longer but are way more reliable, SKiDROW, CODEX, BAT, ACTiVATED, PROPHET and many more won't stop. Pretty sure it won't have any real impact on sales, piracy probably doesn't have a big impact anyways, maybe just in a sense that people try out the game first and see how crappy it is so they saved their money.

[QUOTE=damnatus;49698213]My claim on it impacting performance? Simple deduction. It's supposed to constantly encrypt data, that can't be done without utilizing resources. Edit: [URL="https://exelab.ru/f/index.php?action=vthread&forum=13&topic=19719&page=3#17"]There's an analysis of sorts[/URL] which states that, while again proving that it doesn't damage SSDs, it runs lots and lots of code irrelevant to the game itself, but it's in Russian so whoops V:v:V[/QUOTE] Do you have any idea what you're on about? Denuvo has very little directly to do with encryption. And yeah, running lots of huge and largely irrelevant code is a common obfuscation technique. Doesn't mean you have to do it to a hot loop.

[QUOTE=Tobba;49698401]Do you have any idea what you're on about? Denuvo has very little directly to do with encryption. [/QUOTE] Okay, less encryption more virtual machine fuckery. Are you trying to say that it's not resource intensive?

[QUOTE=damnatus;49700287]Okay, less encryption more virtual machine fuckery. Are you trying to say that it's not resource intensive?[/QUOTE] Not massively tbh. Compared to what shit the CPU is doing just for simple stuff in the game or software itself, dicking around with things like the vtables and scrambling method headers even harder than a compiler will to prevent debugging is somewhat straightforward computationally. It's "just" moving a few things around in RAM, that takes a few hundred cycles of the multiple millions your CPU actually runs. Again, I'm somewhat sure the developers of this anti-tamper know what they're doing more than any person playing the game it's running on does. Claiming it has no meaningful performance impact sounds like a pretty reasonable claim. Claiming it is actively ruining performance in every game it's in with no real explanation as to why or strong evidence pointing to it being the anti-tamper and not just shitty optimisation seems silly.

Unless companies decide to drop prices on games I'm still not going to shell out $80 for a new release whether it can be pirated or not.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;49695267]Dont own any games with denuvo, does it kill mod support? [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] [B]are you under the impression that there arent any games with mod support[/B]? what kind of shitpost is this just cause especially has been known for it's vibrant modding community and it's been stuck with denuvo for 3.[/QUOTE] No. Of course there are games now that have mod support but the vast majority obviously don't, and even some that are moddable are limited so heavily that it doesn't even feel like it makes a difference. [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] I just think it's funny to flat out ignore some great games because of a lack of moddibility

I don't understand why there's even a discussion about modding... Just Cause 3 has Denuvo and it's getting multiplayer, pretty much the most complex and involved mod you could possibly make for a game, so clearly it's possible. Like where did the idea that Denuvo restricts modding come from? I've never even heard anybody suggest that before this thread.

[QUOTE=cdr248;49702074]No. Of course there are games now that have mod support but the vast majority obviously don't, and even some that are moddable are limited so heavily that it doesn't even feel like it makes a difference. [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] I just think it's funny to flat out ignore some great games because of a lack of moddibility[/QUOTE] mods GREATLY increase the amount of fun you can extract from a game you know. sins of a solar empire, skyrim, GTA, homeworld(people even adapted the old homeworld mods to the remastered version) are all relatively "modern" examples of that. and all of them are undisputedly great games.

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;49702518]mods GREATLY increase the amount of fun you can extract from a game you know. sins of a solar empire, skyrim, GTA, homeworld(people even adapted the old homeworld mods to the remastered version) are all relatively "modern" examples of that. and all of them are undisputedly great games.[/QUOTE] I know, but that's not the point. The point is that there are plenty of great games that don't support modding and are fine without it, so why ignore them? If you think I'm anti-modding, I'm not. Modding definitely adds to a game but the lack of support certainty doesn't hurt the game if it's already great. So when someone says I'm not going to play Hitman, Bioshock, Bayonetta (platinum in general), Wolfenstein, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, Mass Effect, Metro, Hotline Miami, Max Payne 3 and plenty of others, expect someone to question that mindset. I would have listed more that even do technically have mod support but have modding communities or capabilities so small that the mods hardly improve the quality of the game (FEAR, Call of Duty, Dark Messiah, EYE, Mafia, Red Faction: Guerrilla) however I decided against it. It's like saying you're not going to buy a game unless it has co-op. Sure co-op can easily improve a game (and much like mods, can even save it,) but it's kinda silly imo to just skip over a game completely because it doesn't have 'X' feature.