[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22174974]Instead of reading about it, it's better to actually read [I]it.[/I][/QUOTE]
Section E, lines 32-36 of the Arizona bill state the following:
[quote]A law enforcement officer, without a warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the United States.[/quote]
their probable cause = the person is brown
[editline]12:15AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tomaster;22174975]I'm confused. Why are you making this sound like a bad thing? Learning something that will ultimately help you, as opposed to moving to this country and being crippled because no one can understand you?[/QUOTE]
forcing people to learn a language just because the majority of the people in the country speak it is a bad thing. once again, the US has no official language and no law that states you must learn/speak English.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum[/url]
People this has become a piss fight.
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22174942]lol
I'm talking about the immigration bill passed in Arizona. have you even read about it?
racial profiling, violating civil liberties, etc. is not acceptable
the method they have legislated is what I dislike. stop grasping for straws.[/QUOTE]
I should ask if you have read it because you seem so ignorant in the matter i could cry. The police are not going to walk around and stop every Hispanic they see THAT is violating civil liberties. You have to break the law first like run a red light or something in that nature. And honestly i do not give a fuck what you think if you dont like it then you are a minority in the matter because a majority of the American public support this law If you dont like it then leave. But i bet you dont even live in America so your opinion does not matter
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22174993]their probable cause = the person is brown[/QUOTE]Jesus Christ, I thought [I]I[/I] was paranoid!
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22174993]forcing people to learn a language just because the majority of the people in the country speak it is a bad thing. once again, the US has no official language and no law that states you must learn/speak English.[/QUOTE] There was no place in my posts (can't say the same about others here) that said they HAD to learn English. I merely said that I don't believe that legal immigrants and/or natural born citizens should have to bend over backward to cater to the non-English speakers.
[QUOTE=Frostbyte113;22175057]I should ask if you have read it because you seem so ignorant in the matter i could cry. The police are not going to walk around and stop every Hispanic they see THAT is violating civil liberties. You have to break the law first like run a red light or something in that nature. And honestly i do not give a fuck what you think if you dont like it then you are a minority in the matter because a majority of the American public support this law If you dont like it then leave. But i bet you dont even live in America so your opinion does not matter[/QUOTE]
Hush, don't argue with him! He's in the minority! He might pull a race card!
[img]http://images.baboom.dk/uploads_alb_large_wm/256677_l.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22174993]Section E, lines 32-36 of the Arizona bill state the following:
their probable cause = the person is brown
[/QUOTE]
Nice assumption there. You have NO way to prove that will happen.
I just love how liberals call what ever they dislike racist.
Edit:
You stole my picture, Foxwolf :argh:
[QUOTE=FoxwolfJackson;22175072]Jesus Christ, I thought [I]I[/I] was paranoid![/QUOTE]
if you think race plays no role in this then you are just ignorant
[QUOTE=FoxwolfJackson;22175072]There was no place in my posts (can't say the same about others here) that said they HAD to learn English. I merely said that I don't believe that legal immigrants and/or natural born citizens should have to bend over backward to cater to the non-English speakers.[/QUOTE]
who the fuck said they have to bend over backward for them?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma[/url]
[editline]12:23AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22175082]Nice assumption there. You have NO way to prove that will happen.
I just love how liberals call what ever they dislike racist.[/QUOTE]
yeah, because they're gonna see some caucasian and ask him for his citizenship documents.
you people are dense
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22169167]here are some more sources for you that the US economy depends on immigrants:
[url]http://www.dallasfed.org/research/swe/2003/swe0306a.html[/url]
[url]http://www.numbersusa.com/text?ID=1259[/url]
[url]http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR854.1/MR854.1.chap6.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/02/national/main531433.shtml[/url]
[url]http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1505[/url][/QUOTE]
There's a difference between legal and illegal immigration.
I can't say I support the bill, but it is a step in the right direction, we need to start cracking down harder on those who enter the country illegally.
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175088]
yeah, because they're gonna see some caucasian and ask him for his citizenship documents.
you people are dense[/QUOTE]
For one, it's still an assumption.
For two, I defended you from others calling you names. At least have the same decency.
[QUOTE=Frostbyte113;22175057]I should ask if you have read it because you seem so ignorant in the matter i could cry. The police are not going to walk around and stop every Hispanic they see THAT is violating civil liberties. You have to break the law first like run a red light or something in that nature. And honestly i do not give a fuck what you think if you dont like it then you are a minority in the matter because a majority of the American public support this law If you dont like it then leave. But i bet you dont even live in America so your opinion does not matter[/QUOTE]
no, they don't have to break the law first. they could be walking down the street and the police could claim they have "probably cause." the law gives local officials way too much power.
[QUOTE=Frostbyte113;22175057]And honestly i do not give a fuck what you think if you dont like it then you are a minority in the matter because a majority of the American public support this law If you dont like it then leave. But i bet you dont even live in America so your opinion does not matter[/QUOTE]
lol, the majority support it so that makes it okay? and if you don't care what I think then why are you responding to me. and where I live is irrelevant.
once again: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum[/url]
[editline]12:26AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22175129]For one, it's still an assumption.
For two, I defended you from others calling you names. At least have the same decency.[/QUOTE]
well these people are dense. they're supporting tyranny of the majority.
[editline]12:27AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;22175113]There's a difference between legal and illegal immigration.[/QUOTE]
no, not really in terms of how much the US needs them. and those articles are about IMMIGRANTS. both legal and illegal.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;22175113]we need to start cracking down harder on those who enter the country illegally.[/QUOTE]
not really
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175088]yeah, because they're gonna see some caucasian and ask him for his citizenship documents.[/QUOTE]
Is that the ONLY argument you can come up with? God, I've seen people say that HOW many times in this thread?
... and you say that the right-wing has little going for them.
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175088]who the fuck said they have to bend over backward for them?[/QUOTE]Maybe you don't know this, but bi-lingual people get preferential treatment over non bi-lingual people. Why? So they can communicate with the Spanish-speaking people who can't speak English.
Why should I have to bust my ass to learn another language just so I can get a job in America...? This is the land of opportunity, not the land of altruistic collectivism.
Fine seems you prefer [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_minority]Tyranny of the minority[/url],Leon, so that we have to keep asking those people what in the world they're saying.
And once again:
Você don' t quer-me que puxa este material, a seguir tentativa que requisita uma pizza no coreano.
Do You know how to speak this language?
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175131]
well these people are dense. they're supporting tyranny of the majority.
[/QUOTE]
You can neither prove or disprove that people will be asked for identification just because of color.
It's an assumption you're making.
And if anything, it's slander against police officers.
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175131]
no, not really. and those articles are about IMMIGRANTS. both legal and illegal.
[/QUOTE]
What makes you think that illegal immigrants are going to be properly represented in a survey like that? There are no defninitive records on how many are entering or are in the country illegally, and spikes in illegal immigration are going to correspond with spikes in legal immigration.
What makes you think that it's okay for people to circumvent our federal immigration system and enter this country illegally? Last time I checked, you are supposed to punish criminals. I'm not okay with Mexican/Canadian/Etc. nationals streaming across our borders, we might as well scrap the entire system and grant anyone who steps foot on American soil citizenship.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22175173]You can neither prove or disprove that people will be asked for identification just because of color.
It's an assumption you're making.
And if anything, it's slander against police officers.[/QUOTE]
he said that most people support the bill as if that makes it right.. and he also said my opinion doesn't matter because I'm the minority.
that's tyranny of the majority
and it's a valid assumption. lol, it's not slander. police use racial profiling all the time. this law just basically gives them more power and the legal right to do so.
[editline]12:35AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=FoxwolfJackson;22175170]Is that the ONLY argument you can come up with? God, I've seen people say that HOW many times in this thread?
... and you say that the right-wing has little going for them.[/QUOTE]
refute it then
and yes, the right-wing has basically nothing going for them. look at what 8 years of Bush administration. fucking two pointless wars, patriot act, guantanamo bay, tax cuts for the rich, etc. and now all the Republicans do is say no to anything the Democrats propose.
they don't even think socialized medicine should be a right lol
[editline]12:36AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Glaber;22175172]Fine seems you prefer [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_minority]Tyranny of the minority[/url],Leon, so that we have to keep asking those people what in the world they're saying.
And once again:
Você don' t quer-me que puxa este material, a seguir tentativa que requisita uma pizza no coreano.
Do You know how to speak this language?[/QUOTE]
already responded to your argument
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175208]he said that most people support the bill as if that makes it right.. and he also said my opinion doesn't matter because I'm the minority.
that's tyranny of the majority
and it's a valid assumption. lol, it's not slander. police use racial profiling all the time. this law just basically gives them more power and the legal right to do so.[/QUOTE]
as·sump·tion
   /əˈsʌmpʃən/[uh-suhmp-shuhn]
–noun
1.
[B]something taken for granted; a supposition[/B]
2.
[B]the act of taking for granted or supposing.[/B]
3.
the act of taking to or upon oneself.
4.
the act of taking possession of something: the assumption of power.
5.[B]
arrogance; presumption. [/B]
[QUOTE=Glaber;22175172]Fine seems you prefer [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_minority]Tyranny of the minority[/url],Leon, so that we have to keep asking those people what in the world they're saying.
And once again:
Você don' t quer-me que puxa este material, a seguir tentativa que requisita uma pizza no coreano.
Do You know how to speak this language?[/QUOTE]
I don't see how it matters if I don't speak their language. There are more ways to communicate than using your mouth.
[editline]09:37PM[/editline]
Body Language and pantomiming all the way.
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175208]
refute it then
and yes, the right-wing has basically nothing going for them. look at what 8 years of Bush administration. fucking two pointless wars, patriot act, guantanamo bay, tax cuts for the rich, etc. and now all the Republicans do is say no to anything the Democrats propose.
they don't even think socialized medicine should be a right lol
[/QUOTE]
:can:
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;22175190]What makes you think that it's okay for people to circumvent our federal immigration system and enter this country illegally? Last time I checked, you are supposed to punish criminals. I'm not okay with Mexican/Canadian/Etc. nationals streaming across our borders, we might as well scrap the entire system and grant anyone who steps foot on American soil a citizen.[/QUOTE]
non violent crime, etc. and no you aren't supposed to punish criminals. you're supposed to help them and REHABILITATE them.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;22175190]I'm not okay with Mexican/Canadian/Etc. nationals streaming across our borders, we might as well scrap the entire system and grant anyone who steps foot on American soil a citizen.[/QUOTE]
false dilemma once again
reform immigration and make it easier for them to obtain citizenship.. that doesn't = just let anyone in
[editline]12:39AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22175274]as·sump·tion
   /əˈsʌmpʃən/[uh-suhmp-shuhn]
–noun
1.
[B]something taken for granted; a supposition[/B]
2.
[B]the act of taking for granted or supposing.[/B]
3.
the act of taking to or upon oneself.
4.
the act of taking possession of something: the assumption of power.
5.[B]
arrogance; presumption. [/B][/QUOTE]
posting a definition from a dictionary? ok
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22166433]Perhaps facepunch would support this bill if it also let Rhode Island kick out smokers[/QUOTE]
I can kick you out of mankind instead, captain "human rights are for pussies unless I agree with then"...
[editline]03:11PM[/editline]
Your superheroname sucks!
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175303]
posting a definition from a dictionary? ok[/QUOTE]
Point is, your assumption is not a valid argument because it's an [I]assumption.[/I]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22175365]Point is, your assumption is not a valid argument because it's an [I]assumption.[/I][/QUOTE]
not really
police use racial profiling all the time
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175303]non violent crime, etc. and no you aren't supposed to punish criminals. you're supposed to help them and REHABILITATE them.
[/QUOTE]
You "rehabilitate" people who shop-lift or commit tax fraud.
You don't rehabilitate people who border-hop illegally, you deport them.
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175379]not really
police use racial profiling all the time[/QUOTE]
Statistic, please.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;22175276]I don't see how it matters if I don't speak their language. There are more ways to communicate than using your mouth.
[editline]09:37PM[/editline]
Body Language and pantomiming all the way.[/QUOTE]
Uh, yea. Do that and you look like a fool.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;22175394]You don't rehabilitate people who border-hop illegally, you deport them.[/QUOTE]
or you can help them obtain citizenship
and deport them? they'll be back as soon as they get a chance
I like the bill, fuck you Rhode Island.
[editline]09:47PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175416]or you can help them obtain citizenship
and deport them? they'll be back as soon as they get a chance[/QUOTE]
Or not, why spend time and money on helping these people
[QUOTE=Dr Pepper;22175421]Or not, why spend time and money on helping these people[/QUOTE]
uh, because they're fellow humans too and we should do our best to help them achieve their goal.
what the fuck is wrong with you
[editline]12:49AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dr Pepper;22175421]I like the bill, fuck you Rhode Island.[/QUOTE]
lol
[QUOTE=Glaber;22175403]Uh, yea. Do that and you look like a fool.[/QUOTE]
looking like a fool is better than being unable to communicate
[editline]09:51PM[/editline]
someone has a excess amount of ego and it isn't me
[QUOTE=Leon Trotsky;22175416]or you can help them obtain citizenship
and deport them? they'll be back as soon as they get a chance[/QUOTE]
They opted not to enter the country and get their citizenship legally, we shouldn't give Mexican nationals that, in a legal sense, are not supposed to even be on American soil an easy pathway to something that they should have obtained before they entered the country.
Here is the part of the law that determines when to arrest:
[QUOTE]Sec. 6. Section 13-3883, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:
13-3883. Arrest by officer without warrant
A. A peace officer, without a warrant, MAY arrest a person if THE OFFICER has probable cause to believe:
1. A felony has been committed and probable cause to believe the person to be arrested has committed the felony.
2. A misdemeanor has been committed in THE OFFICER'S presence and probable cause to believe the person to be arrested has committed the offense.
3. The person to be arrested has been involved in a traffic accident and violated any criminal section of title 28, and that such violation occurred prior to or immediately following such traffic accident.
4. A misdemeanor or a petty offense has been committed and probable cause to believe the person to be arrested has committed the offense. A person arrested under this paragraph is eligible for release under section 13-3903.
5. THE PERSON TO BE ARRESTED HAS COMMITTED ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.
B. A peace officer may stop and detain a person as is reasonably necessary to investigate an actual or suspected violation of any traffic law committed in the officer's presence and may serve a copy of the traffic complaint for any alleged civil or criminal traffic violation. A peace officer who serves a copy of the traffic complaint shall do so within a reasonable time of the alleged criminal or civil traffic violation.
[/QUOTE]
I don't see any racial profiling in there.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
