After the CS:GO betting scandal, Nick Xenophon wants tougher video game laws to combat teen gambling - Polidicks

[QUOTE]Independent Senator Nick Xenophon wants federal Parliament to toughen up on video games, which he believes are encouraging children to gamble. Mr Xenophon told Fairfax Media he plans to push a bill to include certain video games under the Interactive Gambling Act, claiming popular games such as Counter-Strike: Global Offensive are “grooming” children for gambling. Gambling on competitive video games is classified as eSports. In eSport video games like Counter-Strike, users can pay to obtain decorations on guns known as ‘skins’ from ‘cases’ provided within the game from the game’s developer, Valve. They can be then sold onwards on Steam – the developer’s marketplace – and other third-party websites. Skins are used as betting currency on gambling sites offering casino-style chance games or bets. Betting on eSports video games is also a subject of Mr Xenophon’s plan for tougher laws. Mr Xenophon said he is concerned about some video games’ "poker machine-type features with spinning wheels" and the way some offer credits linked to gambling sites. He suggested the games were “misleading and deceptive”, and that parents may be unaware their children were involved in gambling. Gambling on competitive video games is largely unregulated, and is estimated to be worth $10.5 billion this year. Read more at [url]http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/07/31/11/44/nick-xenophon-wants-tougher-video-game-laws-to-combat-teen-gambling#e8xrSita8Hw629Cu.99[/url][/QUOTE] glad to see this issue being pushed in the Australian parliament, it definitely is an issue that needs addressing

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;50803902]glad to see this issue being pushed in the Australian parliament, it definitely is an issue that needs addressing[/QUOTE] You're a fool if you think the Australian government will handle this in a reasonable manner. They're going to do something stupid.

I agree. It's time we start cracking down on this stuff. It's run rampant for years and we've let the people responsible get away with it for too long because of past admiration.

[QUOTE=download;50803911]You're a fool if you think the Australian government will handle this in a reasonable manner. They're going to do something stupid.[/QUOTE] with the right senate inquiry panel (usually a mix of lnp, labor, greens, nxt and other parties), i think it can be done right but iirc they need approval from the states attorney generals before making any changes on video game laws

No no no no no. Look at Brazil where video games are taxed as gambling software.

But the gambling was against established laws and that didn't stop this from happening in the first place, why do they think anything will change now?

[QUOTE=download;50803911]You're a fool if you think the Australian government will handle this in a reasonable manner. They're going to do something stupid.[/QUOTE] This justification could be used for every single law passed in Australia so if we used it as a reason not to do something we would end up doing nothing

"Gambling on competitive video games is classified as eSports." I don't get this line.

[QUOTE=download;50803911]You're a fool if you think the Australian government will handle this in a reasonable manner. They're going to do something stupid.[/QUOTE] Already got the second most retarded video game laws, lets try hard and overtake Germany for the top spot.

[QUOTE=eirexe;50804078]"Gambling on competitive video games is classified as eSports." I don't get this line.[/QUOTE] Because whoever wrote it has no idea what they're talking about.

Whatever happened to a thing called parental oversight?

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50804181]Whatever happened to a thing called parental oversight?[/QUOTE] C'mon, honestly, was your mum sitting over your shoulder during your formative years, checking on all the YouTube channels you watched and what games you played? I'm doubting it. The websites should have some sort of way of verifying the age of customers, even if that means you can only use one in you're own territory. That's what betting sites do, and it's what these sites should have been doing when the items being wagered have real monetary value. Kids aren't allowed into bookies, and the onus is on the on the bookkeeper to make sure people underage aren't gambling. No one expects parents to stop their underage children from buying alcohol from dodgy shops. No one says "What happened to parental oversight?" when Mr Patel gets caught selling 20 B+H and a bottle of cheap vodka to 16 year olds. It's the shop's responsibility to not do business to children. It's exactly the same for sex shops, betting shops and gambling websites. This is really no different

[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;50803914]I agree. It's time we start cracking down on this stuff. It's run rampant for years and we've let the people responsible get away with it for too long because of past admiration.[/QUOTE] You know Valve makes 0 dollars off of the gambling sites, right? You know you pay them money as soon as you put funds into your steam wallet and any transactions on the marketplace or store not being sold by Valve themselves means they have to pay money right?

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50804181]Whatever happened to a thing called parental oversight?[/QUOTE] Why be responsible when you can be coddled?

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50804465]You know Valve makes 0 dollars off of the gambling sites, right? You know you pay them money as soon as you put funds into your steam wallet and any transactions on the marketplace or store not being sold by Valve themselves means they have to pay money right?[/QUOTE] Oh, so you're just saying it's imaginary money at this point and they already made their profit? Gee, that sounds an awful lot like how you pay Konami up front for pachinko balls, which is what you use in their pachislot machines instead of real money to get around Japanese gambling laws. Just because some make-believe wallet serves as a buffer between your real cash and the act of gambling doesn't negate that they're profiting handsomely off of gambling. Or is Valve exempt from the contempt we give Konami because "Gaben/PCMR/they made Half-Life once" or whatever?

It has good intent but it'll probably end up doing things like removing casino levels from Sonic games or some shit.

Is it even considered gambling if they are virtual items and not money? I certainly didn't see my skins as money while I was gambling all of them :v:

[QUOTE=Kevlon;50804605]Is it even considered gambling if they are virtual items and not money? I certainly didn't see my skins as money while I was gambling all of them :v:[/QUOTE] It most certainly is as these skins have a monetary value. The argument of them not being money has been thrown out multiple times since it's pretty clear that people have made - and lost - thousands of dollars on them.

[QUOTE=eirexe;50804078]"Gambling on competitive video games is classified as eSports." I don't get this line.[/QUOTE] I think what they tried to say, is if gambling on "real" sports has all these regulations, esports should also???

[QUOTE=Kevlon;50804605]Is it even considered gambling if they are virtual items and not money? I certainly didn't see my skins as money while I was gambling all of them :v:[/QUOTE] Skins can be bought and sold for real money, and they can get very expensive

[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;50804539]Oh, so you're just saying it's imaginary money at this point and they already made their profit? Gee, that sounds an awful lot like how you pay Konami up front for pachinko balls, which is what you use in their pachislot machines instead of real money to get around Japanese gambling laws. Just because some make-believe wallet serves as a buffer between your real cash and the act of gambling doesn't negate that they're profiting handsomely off of gambling. Or is Valve exempt from the contempt we give Konami because "Gaben/PCMR/they made Half-Life once" or whatever?[/QUOTE] Valve is exempt from it because they don't run the gambling sites. They allow players to buy, sell and trade skins, and gambling sites took advantage of this. Am I disappointed valve didn't sent a cease and desist earlier? Yes. Is it actually them who were the root of the issue? No.

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50805252]Valve is exempt from it because they don't run the gambling sites. They allow players to buy, sell and trade skins, and gambling sites took advantage of this. Am I disappointed valve didn't sent a cease and desist earlier? Yes. Is it actually them who were the root of the issue? No.[/QUOTE] Like fuck Valve is exempt. Valve may of had no part to play in 3rd party betting websites but you cannot tell me buying a $2.49 key to get a random skin is not somewhat of a "slot machine" If I made a machine that accepted literally $2.50 and said that when you press this button, you will get a random amount of money and it ranged from 10c to $300, the Government and even bookkeepers themselves would deem that as a "slot machine" Valve may not be encouraging users to blow their cash on purchasing keys for crates but they're doing nothing to stop minors from accessing it. Valve literally has an internal gambling system built within the game and that needs leglislation because its getting way out of hand

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;50805424]Like fuck Valve is exempt. Valve may of had no part to play in 3rd party betting websites but you cannot tell me buying a $2.49 key to get a random skin is not somewhat of a "slot machine" If I made a machine that accepted literally $2.50 and said that when you press this button, you will get a random amount of money and it ranged from 10c to $300, the Government and even bookkeepers themselves would deem that as a "slot machine" Valve may not be encouraging users to blow their cash on purchasing keys for crates but they're doing nothing to stop minors from accessing it. Valve literally has an internal gambling system built within the game and that needs leglislation because its getting way out of hand[/QUOTE] But you don't get money from the cases, you get skins, skins which Valve provides no way to exchange for real money, only store credit, it doesn't count as gambling. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] It's like saying those ball machines you see next to some shops where you put a coin and get a random toy is gambling.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;50805424]Like fuck Valve is exempt. Valve may of had no part to play in 3rd party betting websites but you cannot tell me buying a $2.49 key to get a random skin is not somewhat of a "slot machine" If I made a machine that accepted literally $2.50 and said that when you press this button, you will get a random amount of money and it ranged from 10c to $300, the Government and even bookkeepers themselves would deem that as a "slot machine" Valve may not be encouraging users to blow their cash on purchasing keys for crates but they're doing nothing to stop minors from accessing it. Valve literally has an internal gambling system built within the game and that needs leglislation because its getting way out of hand[/QUOTE] To me it's more similar to pokemon cards. You pay money to get a random item of a set.

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;50805437]But you don't get money from the cases, you get skins, skins which Valve provides no way to exchange for real money, only store credit, it doesn't count as gambling. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] It's like saying those ball machines you see next to some shops where you put a coin and get a toy is gambling.[/QUOTE] Store credit can be counted for actual money and there are ways to exchange your steam money for USD cash unlike "ball machines" or vending machines, you can't sell those things to get more money. Skins you can, and there's an entire economy with skins which valve directly knows about Valve also helps by putting prices on it by limiting your chances of getting rare skins. An AWP asimove won't drop from the sky on your first spin, because Valve knew prior that would be a rare skin. Shitty skins (mostly those puke green ones) have a higher spit rate than something like a Gali chatterbox. Valve deliberately limits this and sets a fictional price on the weapon at hand, yes they're contributing to this.

Looking at Brazils example, I really do not like the idea of governments adding another tax or making games 18+ instantaneously just because they have an outside the game element of being gambled on. Also, the problem is already over the CoD guys and popular streamers have already profited millions on children and adults who went in for the skin gambling craze. There's no need to continue this now. Valve has already made sure to withdraw from this multi million industry of getting children and adults to gamble on unsafe, unregulated and rigged skin betting sites. Which all were mostly managed by young coder kids and opportunitive young adults who are smart enough to realize this industry has the potential to set them for life. Which it did. Everyone who are under fire right now are calming down and enjoying knowing they made millions on the stupidity of human beings. Greed is good. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=eirexe;50804078]"Gambling on competitive video games is classified as eSports." I don't get this line.[/QUOTE] Think they've mixed betting on eSports results and actual skin gambling. This is what happens when journalists have no clue what they are talking about and are just trying to make an article. Its' the title that matters, the content of the article isn't really worth researching about. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50805252]Valve is exempt from it because they don't run the gambling sites. They allow players to buy, sell and trade skins, and gambling sites took advantage of this. Am I disappointed valve didn't sent a cease and desist earlier? Yes. Is it actually them who were the root of the issue? No.[/QUOTE] Valve let this run wild, they already had the SSA state clearly that all kinds of third party sale of their inventory system is wrong. They just never enacted upon it, because it made them fuck ton of money. They've always had this clause since TF2 days and none of those sites got C&D. The reason CSGO Gambling sites got hit by this clause in the SSA. That's because they were afraid that this could escalate to them getting under fire. Which they already are though with the CSGOLotto suit. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=AaronM202;50804465]You know Valve makes 0 dollars off of the gambling sites, right? You know you pay them money as soon as you put funds into your steam wallet and any transactions on the marketplace or store not being sold by Valve themselves means they have to pay money right?[/QUOTE] Okay, so when I decided to buy a Redline skin to gamble with guess what. Valve took 15% of the price tag for themselves. Meaning that if you wanted to quickly load up with gambling chips you'd get to buy a steam voucher of 50 USD and then load it up on your steam account go to steam marketplace and buy AWP redline skins and then go gamble with them. Valve made lots of money from this, especially when they took so much of each transaction. Valve didn't take action because they made profits, until recently when they felt the risk outweighed the profits they stepped in and said enough is enough.

Why is this an issue. Why do there need to be laws to "protect" the stupid and irresponsible when they themselves are perpetually causing their own issues, I fail to understand why the majority apparently needs to be coddled due to the minority.

[QUOTE=ubersoldier;50805806]Why is this an issue. Why do there need to be laws to "protect" the stupid and irresponsible when they themselves are perpetually causing their own issues, I fail to understand why the majority apparently needs to be coddled due to the minority.[/QUOTE] Because it costs society money to have people ruin their lives via gambling or other means. Its' why laws are put in place so that these people don't provide a cost to our society.

[QUOTE=ubersoldier;50805806]Why is this an issue. Why do there need to be laws to "protect" the stupid and irresponsible when they themselves are perpetually causing their own issues, I fail to understand why the majority apparently needs to be coddled due to the minority.[/QUOTE] It's like saying why make streets safer if people can just instead invest in guns and self defense classes.

I still don't get why no company thought to contact valve and actually try to get a legal gambling site because its pretty fucking obvious that valve profited as much if not more than the sites.