A social democrat in Sweden wants to give ISIS-defectors support in form of work and housing. And it - Polidicks

Don't know if i should laugh or cry, but one thing is sure and that is the fact that Im disgusted and ashamed to be swedish. I have thought Sweden to be fucked up before but this is enough im done, this is just beyond fucked up! basicly these people sympathize with murderers, i would like to see them infront of some ISIS terrorists with a knife ready to cut them and see if they still have the same opinion!

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;49133710]I am actually speechless. What the fuck is going on[/QUOTE] Political correctness on a whole new Swedish level son

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49133989]Where did I say bring them back and let them loose? I would advocate heavy survallaince and demand their cooperation in anti terrorist matters. Use their knowledge to target swedish terror cells. Don't be a dumbass intentionally.[/QUOTE] So what you're suggesting is: 1. native Swedes should work hard and pay taxes, and then pay for their own housing and livingneeds because they can't use their own taxes for housing. 2. Then, we bring in people who have joined a group that has declared the intention of killing everything and everyone Swedes stand for, and give them things like housing and cost of living FOR FREE, paid for by Swedish taxmoney that then can't be spent to the betterment of the Swedes themselves. 3. Then you acknowledge this is not only expensive (you're giving them housing etc), but also POSSIBLY DANGEROUS so you'd also like to spend some more taxmoney on putting them under heavy surveillance. You're telling Swedes to spend lots of taxmoney not on themselves, their elderly, their own economy or to their own betterment but on a group of possibly dangerous outsiders, that have previously joined a group that wanted to actively kill them, and has actually done so. You are truly a shining beacon of humanity in a see of racist xenophobes.... end sarcasm. Do you get why I call your opinions dangerous, naive and sick?

Thank god im moving out of this shit country later, fuck you stefan löfven.

[QUOTE=Rumbler;49134019]So what you're suggesting is that native Swedes should work hard and pay taxes, and then pay for their own housing and livingneeds. Then, we bring in people who have joined a group that has declared the intention of killing everything and everyone Swedes stand for, and give them things like housing and cost of living FOR FREE, paid for by Swedish taxmoney. Then you acknowledge this is not only expensive, but also possibly dangerous, so you'd also like to spend some more taxmoney on putting them under heavy surveillance. You are truly a shining beacon of humanity in a see of racist xenophobes.... end sarcasm.[/QUOTE] No see it's okay because the alternative is letting ISIS kill those people, and we can't have that can we?

[QUOTE=AhoyMate;49133895]There's Sverigedemokraterna though.[/QUOTE] They're a bunch of "secretly" racist, sexist and LGBT-phobic retards. That's the thing, it currently doesn't matter which party you agree with, you're still agreeing with a bunch of drooling idiots Although the people currently in control of course takes the cake when it comes to being naive ~lorem ipsum~ everything can be solved through the power of love~~~ fuckwits

Basically, once people join isis they realize they are pretty much fucked if they want to reintegrate into normal society. All sweden is trying to do is make it look appealing to potential defectors of ISIS to encourage people to leave the regime. In theory its a good way of dismantling ISIS from the inside. In reality it's going to be a shit show. So much of a shit show that I can not tell you how much of a shit show it could potentially be. I'm talking grandiose level of shit show. Shit show so shitty you wouldn't believe its even a show. Am I getting through to anybody here??

Doesn't this encourage more people to join IS since they have a backup now?

im ok with it if they have to wear a big sign that says " I was in isis" aka a target for asskicking everyday and or bullets or knifes

[QUOTE=itisjuly;49134108]Doesn't this encourage more people to join IS since they have a backup now?[/QUOTE] Yes, since the system can easily be abused by any former member of ISIS. They'll literally step off the plane, get detained by our security service, say that they defected, get a pat on the back and blam: new life. [editline]17th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Fort83;49134135]I can't believe some people here are actually advocating for this. They clearly do not understand that the people they want to support, left their homes and family to join a [B]terrorist organization[/B] that commits horrendous acts and executed people like it was second nature, and they want to give them a second chance? You want to give a get of out jail free card to people that wouldn't even hesitate to cut off your head. This is fucked up.[/QUOTE] Not people, stupid-ass politicians.

[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;49134152] Not people, stupid-ass politicians.[/QUOTE] I think he's talking about people such as mdeceiver79 who seem to think that this is an excellent idea

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;49134285]I think he's talking about people such as mdeceiver79 who seem to think that this is an excellent idea[/QUOTE] I'm absolutely really surprised that BDA visited this thread and left without saying anything. I'm not on a personal vendetta against either BDA or Mdeceiver. They're good guys who absolutely mean well, but honestly these two guys are excellent examples of people who advocate blind tolerance and acceptance by committing themselves to a completely flawed rhetoric. They are too naive to see that Western countries and their native people are doing SO goddamn much for forreign people that we are actually poisoning our relationships with them, and their chances in our societies, which will no-doubt result in a massive cultural clash.

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;49134285]I think he's talking about people such as mdeceiver79[/QUOTE] his argument would be reasonable if he was only talking about high level brass from ISIS that could actually provide some useful intel and stir up a lot of shit by leaving. doing this for any ISIS defector who feels like living an easy life in scandinavia is one of the worst ideas any developed country has ever had.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;49134368]his argument would be reasonable if he was only talking about high level brass from ISIS that could actually provide some useful intel and stir up a lot of shit by leaving. doing this for any ISIS defector who feels like living an easy life in scandinavia is one of the worst ideas any developed country has ever had.[/QUOTE] Even then you don't have to put them in housing paid for by Swedish taxpayers. I dont get why this is deemed so acceptable. How about spending that money on the people that paid that taxmoney in the first place. [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49133961]That native thing could stir up a whole new level to your outlook, by specifying native you are implying that native swedes are inherently worth something more than none native swedes? anyway different argument different day[/QUOTE] I can't believe you said this. OFCOURSE native Swedes have more right to taxmoney that they brought up themselves, more so than outsiders that have provided nothing. What logic do you have, where you think that outsiders somehow have more of a claim to that money than the people who paid for that money? You seriously think it's racist and xenophobe that I'm saying this, from what I've heard when we last spoke. I'm not attacking you, I am just absolutely flabbergasted how deeply you are buried in your 'we-must-help-even-if-it-damages-us"-mentality.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49133961] This is a fallacy. Where did I say "ignore native swedes" in preference these people? Where did native come from anyway? [B]That native thing could stir up a whole new level to your outlook, by specifying native you are implying that native swedes are inherently worth something more than none native swedes? anyway different argument different day[/B][/QUOTE] I was talking about the opinion that Swedish posters in this thread, and in other threads, have been talking about. Also, I decided to put your spoiled part in bold, because we are talking about actual fucking terrorists here. Oh how dare I being so 'racist' by putting the lives of native Swedes above literal ISIS members. Do you have any idea how fucking mental that statement is? Literally, have you gone utterly nuts?

This is why you don't vote for the Social Democrats. [editline]17th November 2015[/editline] or anything left of the Moderates in general.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;49134048]Basically, once people join isis they realize they are pretty much fucked if they want to reintegrate into normal society. All sweden is trying to do is make it look appealing to potential defectors of ISIS to encourage people to leave the regime. In theory its a good way of dismantling ISIS from the inside. In reality it's going to be a shit show. So much of a shit show that I can not tell you how much of a shit show it could potentially be. I'm talking grandiose level of shit show. Shit show so shitty you wouldn't believe its even a show. Am I getting through to anybody here??[/QUOTE] How the fuck can anybody join ISIS and realize they've made a mistake. How the fuck do they not realize what the hell they are getting into in the first place? What do they expect? Fuck people who go there to join them.

[QUOTE=Ax3l;49134508]How the fuck can anybody join ISIS and realize they've made a mistake. How the fuck do they not realize what the hell they are getting into in the first place? What do they expect? Fuck people who go there to join them.[/QUOTE] People, typically young people, who have become disillusioned with their current society or are from very tight knit communities with little outside influence can be easily be radicalised and sold false promises. It's the same reason why people join gangs. From your perspective it's easy to see that joining ISIS would be incredibly stupid, but not everyone is fortunate enough to have that benefit.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49133961] If someone goes to join ISIS and realise they've made a mistake, if they are offered no recourse they will be trapped there. [/QUOTE] Fuck 'em. They fucked up, and have to suffer the consequences. If I went out tonight and killed someone in cold blood, they'd arrest me and shove me in a cold cell, both as punishment for my deed and to protect others from further potential attacks. I couldn't just say "Oh, but I really regret killing that person, it was a mistake" and expect to get off scot-free, and more than that be actively REWARDED for it. If someone goes to join ISIS, they have effectively signed away their life - either to their bloodthirsty comrades, or to our guns and bombs. They don't deserve a second chance. [QUOTE=Wiggles;49134587]People, typically young people, who have become disillusioned with their current society or are from very tight knit communities with little outside influence can be easily be radicalised and sold false promises. It's the same reason why people join gangs. From your perspective it's easy to see that joining ISIS would be incredibly stupid, but not everyone is fortunate enough to have that benefit.[/QUOTE] That would make sense for those already in Syria when ISIS was formed, but explain the people who come from civilised western society, those who chose to go to a wartorn hellhole purely for the chance of slaughtering innocents with the excuse of their religion. They weren't pressured, it wasn't for a better life or anything like that.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;49134048]Basically, once people join isis they realize they are pretty much fucked if they want to reintegrate into normal society. All sweden is trying to do is make it look appealing to potential defectors of ISIS to encourage people to leave the regime. In theory its a good way of dismantling ISIS from the inside. In reality it's going to be a shit show. So much of a shit show that I can not tell you how much of a shit show it could potentially be. I'm talking grandiose level of shit show. Shit show so shitty you wouldn't believe its even a show. Am I getting through to anybody here??[/QUOTE] Its going to be as big as the weapons we sent down into Mexico to try and track, and then lost.

[QUOTE=Lium;49134819]That would make sense for those already in Syria when ISIS was formed, but explain the people who come from civilised western society, those who chose to go to a wartorn hellhole purely for the chance of slaughtering innocents with the excuse of their religion. They weren't pressured, it wasn't for a better life or anything like that.[/QUOTE] Extremism and radicalisation exist in our civilised western society, and it's a big enough problem that the UK government has a task force dedicated to tackling it. [URL="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/263181/ETF_FINAL.pdf"]Here are a few choice quotes from a publication relating to it:[/URL] [QUOTE]It is often too easy for extremist preachers and groups to spread extremist views which can lead people into terrorism, while at the same time being careful not to contravene existing laws on incitement to violence or glorifying terrorism.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Some organisations and religious institutions may be targeted and infiltrated by extremist groups or individuals.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Extremism can flourish where different parts of a community remain isolated from each other.[/QUOTE] It's these organisations and communities that are radicalising people and sending them astray on the back of false promises.

Bye sweden, I hope you don't mind us taking back Malmö once it's all in ruins.

the socialdemocrats and the green party is ruining our country, help

I think it should depend on what they did. If they took part in massacring civilians or executing captives, then send them to prison for life. If all they did was guard a checkpoint in the rear for 8 hours a day, I don't see why they shouldn't be given clemency for defecting. Basically, treat 'em the way we treated the Nazis, on a case-by-case basis.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49135254]I think it should depend on what they did. If they took part in massacring civilians or executing captives, then send them to prison for life. If all they did was guard a checkpoint in the rear for 8 hours a day, I don't see why they shouldn't be given clemency for defecting. Basically, treat 'em the way we treated the Nazis, on a case-by-case basis.[/QUOTE] There's no way of checking that tho', any mass murdere could show up and say "I was just one of the little guys please help me"

SOMEONE FUCKING SAVE US ALREADY I'm serious I don't feel safe anymore

maybe do this with people who are caught before they go to ISIS or something, but ya the soldiers who come back after fighting for ISIS should go to jail [editline]17th November 2015[/editline] i do get the idea behind this, but these aren't like the child soldiers in africa, they choose to leave euorpe to go to fight for ISIS

[QUOTE=Tools;49135271]There's no way of checking that tho', any mass murdere could show up and say "I was just one of the little guys please help me"[/QUOTE] An awful lot of Nazis slipped through the cracks too. Doesn't mean we hanged everyone who ever said "Heil Hitler". Innocent Until Proven Guilty is a founding principal of our justice system. We must not allow emotion to compromise Justice.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49135325]An awful lot of Nazis slipped through the cracks too. Doesn't mean we hanged everyone who ever said "Heil Hitler". Innocent Until Proven Guilty is a founding principal of our justice system. We must not allow emotion to compromise Justice.[/QUOTE] the nazis were also an organized state and government that excelled in paper work and record keeping. ISIS does not, and probably will never be like that. Yes, I agree, we need to have emotion at an arms distance here. But these are people who left a first world nation to become killers and pillagers in a war they opted in to. they are not exempt from having left their nation to join an enemy state. That is literally treason. You cannot just say "Well we don't have evidence of treason". Yes we do. Them joining ISIS at all is literally an act of treason.

Your elections in 2018 are going to be worth following for sure.