Toys R Us agree to stop separating products by gender after pressure from campaign
337 replies, posted
The only thing is its going to be confusing to find products no? Unless they make new categories like action figures and dolls, dresses and costumes and so on for example. Other than that I don't really see a problem.
[QUOTE=smidge146;42134073]This is stupid, I took my 7 year old sister into toys r us the other day and knew exactly where to go due to it being set out in gender.[/QUOTE]
instead of telling your little sister what she enjoys you should let her run around and find whatever she actually thinks is cool regardless of gender audience
A good step. I was always tired of the gender stereotypes.
"You are a boy. Stop playing with Barbies and be a man and play video games and play with dinosaurs and tonka trucks!"
"You are a girl. Stop playing with dinosaurs, action figures and video games and be a girly girl and play dressup and pretty princess!"
Stupid.
My parents and I always got funny looks in toy stores and stuff because I was not with the Barbies and pink vomit, I was picking up Megaman action figures, Pokemon stuff, Gundam action figures, Megabloks Dragons, stuff that was (stupidly) frowned upon apparently for a little girl to own.
In the checkout of a Meijer's one day the cashier checked out something I picked out for my own birthday.
"Oh, are you getting this for your brother?"
"Noo, it's for me. I like dragons and stuff..."
"You don't like Barbies..?"
"I think Barbies are ugly. Dragons are AWESOME!"
The cashier ceased to say anything further and proceeded to give my parents and I a very strange look and acted like we were diseased or something.
Shit like that needs to stop because it is degrading. Damaging. For a while in my life I questioned if I was normal or some freak that liked stuff that I wasn't supposed to. And it drove me into depression for a few years because of it. Because I was ridiculed by other adults, other children in my school, because I liked things that socially weren't acceptable to like because of my gender.
And I know I'm not the only one whom this happened to.
[QUOTE=Vasili;42134326]The only thing is its going to be confusing to find products no? Unless they make new categories like action figures and dolls, dresses and costumes and so on for example. Other than that I don't really see a problem.[/QUOTE]
Things will still be categorized by type i.e. dolls with dolls, legos with legos. The difference is that there won't be a clearly defined gender association for each section.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;42134312]I understand that, but my point is that at some point some of those "other children" who create that pressure got their views on gender roles from their parents (or whatever other adult they may have come into contact with, like the mall Santa mentioned above). No child single-handedly came up with the idea that Barbies are for girls only; some adult with archaic views on gender roles imparted it.[/QUOTE]
Studies with monkeys have found that female monkeys are more likely to play with "girl" toys like dolls than male monkeys are and vase verse for male monkeys and toys like trucks.
"Male monkeys, like boys, showed consistent and strong preferences for wheeled toys, while female monkeys, like girls, showed greater variability in preferences. Thus, the magnitude of preference for wheeled over plush toys differed significantly between males and females. The similarities to human findings demonstrate that such preferences can develop without explicit gendered socialization." - [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/[/url]
It's simply not as clear as you are all trying to make it.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;42134312]I understand that, but my point is that at some point some of those "other children" who create that pressure got their views on gender roles from their parents (or whatever other adult they may have come into contact with, like the mall Santa mentioned above). [b]No child single-handedly came up with the idea that Barbies are for girls only; some adult with archaic views on gender roles imparted it.[/b] Kids bring opinions from home to school, in a manner of speaking.[/QUOTE]
While parents do reward and punish for certain gender traits, children also simply observe and construct their own gender-types from those behavioral observations, even without any kind of pressure.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42134357]Studies with monkeys have found that female monkeys are more likely to play with "girl" toys like dolls than male monkeys are and vase verse for male monkeys and toys like trucks.
"Male monkeys, like boys, showed consistent and strong preferences for wheeled toys, while female monkeys, like girls, showed greater variability in preferences. Thus, the magnitude of preference for wheeled over plush toys differed significantly between males and females. The similarities to human findings demonstrate that such preferences can develop without explicit gendered socialization." - [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/[/url]
It's simply not as clear as you are all trying to make it.[/QUOTE]
wheeled and non wheeled toys? sure, maybe that's slightly possible. but girls don't instinctively go for the pink toy with the girly branding. that's almost certainly related to gender roles and not #biotruths
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;42134380]wheeled and non wheeled toys? sure, maybe that's slightly possible. but girls don't instinctively go for the pink toy with the girly branding. that's almost certainly related to gender roles and not #biotruths[/QUOTE]
Go ahead and ignore the studies with hashtags. I love being derided as the only person giving actual scientific evidence.
So what? Display the toys in a checkerboard pattern? You know what, I take offence to the boxes being all pink, let's change that too while we are at it. In fact everything should be in grey box with simple lettering so that my poor hormones don't get overwhelmed.
[QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;42134349]A good step. I was always tired of the gender stereotypes.
"You are a boy. Stop playing with Barbies and be a man and play video games and play with dinosaurs and tonka trucks!"
"You are a girl. Stop playing with dinosaurs, action figures and video games and be a girly girl and play dressup and pretty princess!"
Stupid.
My parents and I always got funny looks in toy stores and stuff because I was not with the Barbies and pink vomit, I was picking up Megaman action figures, Pokemon stuff, Gundam action figures, Megabloks Dragons, stuff that was (stupidly) frowned upon apparently for a little girl to own.
In the checkout of a Meijer's one day the cashier checked out something I picked out for my own birthday.
"Oh, are you getting this for your brother?"
"Noo, it's for me. I like dragons and stuff..."
"You don't like Barbies..?"
"I think Barbies are ugly. Dragons are AWESOME!"
The cashier ceased to say anything further and proceeded to give my parents and I a very strange look and acted like we were diseased or something.
Shit like that needs to stop because it is degrading. Damaging. For a while in my life I questioned if I was normal or some freak that liked stuff that I wasn't supposed to. And it drove me into depression for a few years because of it. Because I was ridiculed by other adults, other children in my school, because I liked things that socially weren't acceptable to like because of my gender.
And I know I'm not the only one whom this happened to.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure nothing else was at play besides the fact you, as a girl, played with masculine toys? Because research indicates that children and adults rarely condemn girls playing with 'non-girl toys'. It's pretty much always the other way around - boys with girl-toys being looked down upon.
Don't see why this is rated dumb. Statistics are dumb?
[QUOTE=sgman91;42134394]Go ahead and ignore the studies with hashtags. I love being derided as the only person giving actual scientific evidence.[/QUOTE]
a single study based on monkeys is actual scientific 'evidence'?
it points towards something, but it's not evidence at all
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;42134417]a single study based on monkeys is actual scientific 'evidence'?[/QUOTE]
It's a whole lot more than you've given.
Here, this article lists about 10 other studies that agree with the conclusion: [URL]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/[/URL]
" This cross-species demonstration of male–female differences in toy choice strongly supports and extends prior work with humans (e.g., [URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/#R6"]Berenbaum and Hines, 1992[/URL]; [URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/#R9"]Campbell et al., 2000[/URL]; [URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/#R29"]Pasterski et al., 2005[/URL]; [URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/#R38"]Serbin et al., 2001[/URL]) and vervet monkeys ([URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/#R3"]Alexander and Hines, 2002[/URL]) showing that sexually dimorphic toy preferences reflect basic neurobiological differences between males and females and are not caused solely by socialization, as has been suggested by cognitive-social theories of gender role behavior ([URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/#R8"]Caldera et al., 1989[/URL]; [URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/#R10"]Carter and Levy, 1988[/URL]; [URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/#R30"]Pomerleau et al., 1990[/URL]; [URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755553/#R32"]Roopnarine, 1986[/URL])."
When I grew up I went to my friends house and we played with action figures all the time, and tanks and stuff, but we always stole his sister's doll house and horse figures to mix into the brawl. I thought doll houses were pretty neat actually, but only the the practically of having action figures brawl in them and using all the intricate objects are brawl weapons.
If I have a kid I'm going to try to introduce as many creative toys to him/her as I can, like legos, kid art supplies, musical instruments, ect
[QUOTE=OvB;42133728]I had both an easy bake oven [I]and[/I] a tonka truck as a kid.
Baking is a useful skill, yo.[/QUOTE]
my parents taught me how to use the real oven
didn't let me drive a real dumptruck though
[QUOTE=sgman91;42134357]Studies with monkeys have found that female monkeys are more likely to play with "girl" toys like dolls than male monkeys are and vase verse for male monkeys and toys like trucks.
"Male monkeys, like boys, showed consistent and strong preferences for wheeled toys, while female monkeys, like girls, showed greater variability in preferences. Thus, the magnitude of preference for wheeled over plush toys differed significantly between males and females. The similarities to human findings demonstrate that such preferences can develop without explicit gendered socialization." - [URL]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/[/URL]
It's simply not as clear as you are all trying to make it.[/QUOTE]
I have news for you
we are trying to evolve this society
[I]
~past monkeys[/I]~
I know it sounds like a crazy concept to you probably but that's okay, there will still be enough bananas for you, don't worry
[QUOTE=sgman91;42134357]Studies with monkeys have found that female monkeys are more likely to play with "girl" toys like dolls than male monkeys are and vase verse for male monkeys and toys like trucks.
"Male monkeys, like boys, showed consistent and strong preferences for wheeled toys, while female monkeys, like girls, showed greater variability in preferences. Thus, the magnitude of preference for wheeled over plush toys differed significantly between males and females. The similarities to human findings demonstrate that such preferences can develop without explicit gendered socialization." - [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/[/url]
It's simply not as clear as you are all trying to make it.[/QUOTE]
Don't mistake me for some radical feminist that's attempting to deny any biological difference between males and females, that's not what this is about. As we've seen in this thread, there are lots of people who have enjoyed playing with Barbies but may or may not have been able to do so because of the "restrictions" imposed by popular views on gender roles. That's unnecessary.
even if kids did biologically like their gender fitting toys, why should we seperate the aisles? not every kid is gonna be like that. not all girls like girly toys, and not every boy likes boyish toys. it might be prevalent that a majority of [I]monkeys[/I] instinctively act that way but humans are a lot more conscious when it comes to what they enjoy compared to more basic primates, they're influenced by their surroundings constantly so i think these biological 'facts' you're providing shouldn't be put in to account as much as you want them to be.
[editline]9th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;42134462]my parents taught me how to use the real oven
didn't let me drive a real dumptruck though[/QUOTE]
i smashed the [I]actual[/I] oven door when i tried to use it as a kid, i think my parents are still wary of me cooking for them :v:
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;42134469]I have news for you
we are trying to evolve this society
[I]
~past monkeys[/I]~
I know it sounds like a crazy concept to you probably but that's okay, there will still be enough bananas for you, don't worry[/QUOTE]
You're ignoring the immense amount of biological and psycho-social similarities between monkeys and humans. And while we as humans obviously entertain a more complex society and physiological existence, these similarities (while not heavy enough of a weight to ignore opportunities of social 'improvement') should not be ignored.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;42134469]I have news for you
we are trying to evolve this society
[I]
~past monkeys[/I]~
I know it sounds like a crazy concept to you probably but that's okay, there will still be enough bananas for you, don't worry[/QUOTE]
I would rather embrace and celebrate real biological differences than ignore them and force everyone to be the same.
[QUOTE]Don't mistake me for some radical feminist that's attempting to deny any biological difference between males and females, that's not what this is about. As we've seen in this thread, there are lots of people who have enjoyed playing with Barbies but may or may not have been able to do so because of the "restrictions" imposed by popular views on gender roles. That's unnecessary.[/QUOTE]
If there are actual biological differences in toy choices between boys and girls it makes perfect sense to organize a story by those differences.
[QUOTE=tr00per7;42133956]Just make some swords and tanks pink and some dresses blue and dolls with weapon accessory's and were all set.[/QUOTE]
Ha, that's funny
[url=http://nerf.wikia.com/wiki/Rebelle]because it's actually happening[/url]
i think as humans we should try and minimize inequality of opportunity in regards to the gender binary based on biological traits as much as possible. it's not about forcing people to not do what they want, it's about giving them the choice to do either. that's what toys r us not seperating the aisles is all about, an equal opportunity to do what you want to as a child
[editline]9th September 2013[/editline]
because in the end, everybody is different. regardless of what the majority is observed to be.
[QUOTE=Chief Martini;42134406]Are you sure nothing else was at play besides the fact you, as a girl, played with masculine toys? Because research indicates that children and adults rarely condemn girls playing with 'non-girl toys'. It's pretty much always the other way around - boys with girl-toys being looked down upon.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure.
I used to drag my toys around with me a lot. I sometimes would get asked "Why don't you have a Barbie?" And I'd give my usual answer of "I don't like girl stuff." or a variation of such a thing and I would either get a strange look or they'd walk off mumbling insulting shit under their breath like "freak" or "bad parenting" or some crap. Stuff my parents never overheard. This was from [I]adults.[/I]
Now in school and from other children it was a different story. I tried to make friends with males because they shared the same interests but I was shunned & made fun of because that was the time where girls were gross and had cooties. I didn't stay in regular school long enough to get out of that phase from everyone else. I tried to be friends with females and again, shunned & made fun of because I didn't like makeup, gossip, dolls or whatever else was popular with them at the time.
I only made like two long lasting friends in school and that's all.
But, perhaps that's just the area I live in because everyone here is their gender stereotype except for my parents and I for the most part. [I]Everyone.[/I]
And if you're different you might as well call yourself an outsider.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;42134550]i think as humans we should try and minimize inequality of opportunity in regards to the gender binary based on biological traits as much as possible. it's not about forcing people to not do what they want, it's about giving them the choice to do either. that's what toys r us not seperating the aisles is all about, an equal opportunity to do what you want to as a child[/QUOTE]
Separating isles doesn't force anyone to do anything. It simply makes it easy to find what you want and puts toys that correlate in the same place.
I don't think the issue is that traditional 'boy's toys' are being labeled as 'boy's toys', and traditional 'girl's toys' being labeled as such also. The issue is that "people are dicks to people who don't like the same things", and that flourishes into various social conditions including this perceived fault of gender roles. The proper course of action isn't trying to remove pre-existing ontology, but to promote future tolerance. By that I mean general tolerance, driven by non-egotistic ethics. I think a lot of hardship could be avoided if people would simply not judge each other.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42134512]
If there are actual biological differences in toy choices between boys and girls it makes perfect sense to organize a story by those differences.[/QUOTE]
No, because we're not cavemen. We don't need to reduce the individual's freedom by collectively imposing a set of roles for every individual to conform to based on what is biologically considered the most common.
This is like heterosexuality. Biology could confirm it as the most common sexuality, but it isn't necessary to have it advocated and advertized as the norm, making outliers seem/feel excluded. Unnecessary reduction of freedom.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42134571]Separating isles doesn't force anyone to do anything. It simply makes it easy to find what you want and puts toys that correlate in the same place.[/QUOTE]
This X 100
Why should we make things all disorganized?
[QUOTE=sgman91;42134571]Separating isles doesn't force anyone to do anything. It simply makes it easy to find what you want and puts toys that correlate in the same place.[/QUOTE]
toys r us haven't just resorted to mixing every single kind of toy in to one aisle. instead of being seperated by gender [I]then[/I] kind of toy, it's just kind of toy. they can still find whatever kind of toy they want to
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;42134582]No, because we're not cavemen. We don't need to reduce the individual's freedom by collectively imposing a set of roles for every individual to conform to based on what is biologically considered the most common.
This is like heterosexuality. Biology could confirm it as the most common sexuality, but it isn't necessary to have it advocated and advertized as the norm, making outliers seem/feel excluded. Unnecessary reduction of freedom.[/QUOTE]
... Except it's not imposing, it is organizing by logical category. Dolls go next to dolls, trucks go next to trucks etc.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;42134582]No, because we're not cavemen. We don't need to reduce the individual's freedom by collectively imposing a set of roles for every individual to conform to based on what is biologically considered the most common.
This is like heterosexuality. Biology could confirm it as the most common sexuality, but it isn't necessary to have it advocated and advertized as the norm, making outliers seem/feel excluded. Unnecessary reduction of freedom.[/QUOTE]
How dare supermarkets make alcohol drinkers feel bad by putting it all in one isle! They should spread it around the store so that people don't know they are buying alcohol and can't judge them for it.
The problem here isn't that toys are organized in a logical manner. The problem is that someone is looked down on for buying the "wrong" toy. You are just ignoring this issue by doing things like reorganizing the store to make it less obvious.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42134512]I would rather embrace and celebrate real biological differences than ignore them and force everyone to be the same.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand what you mean that we should embrace and celebrate our biological differences, what exactly does this embracing and celebrating imply? The differenses are too minor to play a big part in our society, anyway.
I also want to question your logic when you're implying that by removing the gender separation we are forcing people to be the same? I'm sorry but; what? Aren't we giving individuals the opportunity to be even more unique by not telling them what they can and can't play with?
I mean if we think about it`; if the world was equal, out of the 100% of toys, 50% should be for girls and 50% should be for boy - this is not ofcourse the case, I'd guess a bigger ratio is for boys and some toys aren't gender specified but that's not the point - so you're essentially limiting kids.
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