North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;47120622]This is a bit irrelevant. Not believing in something is choosing to believe in the absence of said belief.[/QUOTE] Why is it irrelevant? According to your logic, if a man lacks hair, he still has some sort of opposite hair (?). And turning off the T.V. is merely switching to a different channel. No, once again, a lack of a belief is not itself some kind of belief. A lack of something is not something. This applies to beliefs as much as it does to hair. Just read the article Muskof posted a few posts above. It explains this very clearly.

[QUOTE=Explosions;47120624]Also false. Atheism and agnosticism answer different questions. Atheism deals with belief, agnosticism with knowledge. If you simply say "I am agnostic about god," that does not tell me whether or not you believe in him. It simply says "I do not know if god exists." Atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive. Most atheists are agnostic atheists, who do not claim to know that god doesn't exist, but they don't believe in him. [IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-S43W4wbm0VE/T8baNr81WUI/AAAAAAAAAc8/jWSDLOSkDbg/s400/chart.png[/IMG] This is a pretty useful chart that explains this. Obviously this depends on what definitions you are using and these are just the ones I find most useful and common. But perhaps you define atheism and agnosticism differently, and that's fine because it's basically completely arbitrary.[/QUOTE] Okay, so how can you be an athiest but not believe in the second claim? ie, that there is no god. Didn't you just contradict yourself? Even your chart says so.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;47120587]You have atheist confused with agnostic. Atheism affirms a disbelief in god, ie accepts the second claim.[/QUOTE] Agnostics ARE Atheists, they're 2 different philosophical positions that answer 2 different questions. Theism and Atheism are positions of belief Gnosticism and Agnosticism are positions of Knowledge By being an Agnostic, you actually automatically become an Agnostic Atheist because to be a Theist you require an active belief in a God or Gods. It's very simple, just ask 2 questions: "Do you believe in God?", if you answer yes, you're a Theist, if you answer no, you're an Atheist. if you answer "I don't know", you're still an Atheist because to be a Theist you require an active belief in god or gods. Now that it's out of the way, you can ask "How much are you certain in the existence/nonexistence of god/gods?" if you answer that you're sure that God doesn't exist 100%, you're a Gnostic Atheist because nothing can be certain to 100%, if you answer that you're 99.99% sure that God doesn't exist, you're an Agnostic Atheist (most logical conclusion) Hope this helps.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;47120647]Okay, so how can you be an athiest but not believe in the second claim? ie, that there is no god. Didn't you just contradict yourself? Even your chart says so.[/QUOTE] You can be an atheist and believe that second claim or you can be an atheist and not accept it. The chart offers both options. Notice that it has "Gnostic Atheist" and "Agnostic Atheist."

Many atheists: "I really don't think god exists but I cannot know for sure". Often this is paired with explanations like that there's no more reason to believe in a God than there is for [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2jkV4BsN6U]last thursdayism[/url] or [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster]a flying spaghetti monster[/url].

I just hope he gets a fair trial and gets rehabilitated.

[QUOTE=Explosions;47120244]do you believe in god. No? You're an atheist. [/QUOTE] I do not believe in god, and I refuse to call myself an atheist, every atheist I've met was a giant turd with a persecution complex. [editline]11th February 2015[/editline] Also this guy was probably just racist and insane.

[QUOTE=FPtje;47120303][highlight] IMPORTANT RECTIFICATION[/highlight] [url]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/11/north-carolina-man-charged-in-shooting-death-three-people/[/url] A fucking parking dispute. That will save us a lot of discussion won't it? Of course his atheism might still be involved, but the attention given to it, even in the rectification, is way beyond proportion.[/QUOTE] According to reports scouring his facebook, Hicks is supposedly 1. Very pro gun 2. Pro LGBQT 3. VERY anti-theist(hates all religions apparently) Not that #2 really matters here but I get the feeling this guy probably has a few screws loose in his head.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;47120893]I do not believe in god, and I refuse to call myself an atheist, every atheist I've met was a giant turd with a persecution complex. [editline]11th February 2015[/editline] Also this guy was probably just racist and insane.[/QUOTE] Atheism has a bad name to some people. Alternative names are humanist or secularist. Do note that they on their own have distinctive meanings.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;47120893]I do not believe in god, and I refuse to call myself an atheist, every atheist I've met was a giant turd with a persecution complex. [editline]11th February 2015[/editline] Also this guy was probably just racist and insane.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter as long as you understand that the term is equivalent to an Agnostic Atheist. you don't really have a choice since in the end a connection can be found. If you don't want people to associate you with misogynists and sexists because some of them were also Atheists, you can use Humanist/Secularist If you don't like those you're out of luck. "I am a Liberal but I don't like that name because some Liberals were assholes"

Regardless of your understanding of whether Atheism is a "belief" or not, it is unarguable that atheism IS an [I]ideology[/I]. You can certainly do something in the name of Atheism and extremist atheist ideology may very well have been the source of this murder. Until there are more details though its just speculation, it likely could have been racism too.

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;47121112]Regardless of your understanding of whether Atheism is a "belief" or not, it is unarguable that atheism is not an [I]ideology[/I]. You can certainly do something in the name of Atheism and extremist atheist ideology may very well have been the source of this murder. Until there are more details though its just speculation, it likely could have been racism too.[/QUOTE] You're contradicting yourself Oh you changed your post, Atheism is not an ideology and you stating that it is doesn't change the fact that it isn't.

[QUOTE=Muskof;47121119]You're contradicting yourself Oh you changed your post, Atheism is not an ideology and you stating that it is doesn't change the fact that it isn't.[/QUOTE] Do you not understand what ideology is??? Please explain your definition of ideology and how atheism doesn't fit into it.

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;47121273]Do you not understand what ideology is??? Please explain your definition of ideology and how atheism doesn't fit into it.[/QUOTE] Webster says: a: a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture b: a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture c: the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program How does atheism, with its total lack of content, fulfill any of these definitions?

The amount of ignorance here is astounding, stop with the rating spam and actually explain why you disagree/think it's dumb.

[QUOTE=Explosions;47121291]Webster says: a: a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture b: a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture c: the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program How does atheism, with its total lack of content, fulfill any of these definitions?[/QUOTE] I'll grant you the use of your own chosen definition here keeping in mind that webster doesn't represent the ultimate definition of ideology. You are arguing that atheism in its purest sense is simply lack of belief in religion, but no one exercises atheism simply as a lack of belief. Rather, many people as atheists actually operate as atheists utilizing a body of theories and assertions that are used to disprove or critique religion as they see it practiced in society. If atheism was practiced simply as lack of belief, why are their books detailing problems atheists have with religion?? Why are their associations of atheists that exist to defend liberties of atheists? Why do people take ideas from prominent atheists like Richard Dawkin (who can be said to have contributed to a [I]systematic body of concepts about human life (that there is nothing supernatural about it)[/I] and use them as their justification or foundation for their atheist beliefs? Atheism is never [I]just[/I] lack of belief in God. Accompanying it are a wide variety of beliefs about human nature that come to characterise atheists as a group or subculture in society in a manner strikingly similar to how many religions or [I]other[/I] ideologies such as Marxism end up categorizing people. Atheism is certainly ideological and I'm astounded you can't see it as such, if not in its core definition, than AT LEAST in the way it is practiced by Atheists everywhere.

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;47121426]I'll grant you the use of your own chosen definition here keeping in mind that webster doesn't represent the ultimate definition of ideology. You are arguing that atheism in its purest sense is simply lack of belief in religion, but no one exercises atheism simply as a lack of belief. Rather, many people as atheists actually operate as atheists utilizing a body of theories and assertions that are used to disprove or critique religion as they see it practiced in society. If atheism was practiced simply as lack of belief, why are their books detailing problems atheists have with religion?? Why are their associations of atheists that exist to defend liberties of atheists? Why do people take ideas from prominent atheists like Richard Dawkin (who can be said to have contributed to a [I]systematic body of concepts about human life (that there is nothing supernatural about it)[/I] and use them as their justification or foundation for their atheist beliefs? Atheism is never [I]just[/I] lack of belief in God. Accompanying it are a wide variety of beliefs about human nature that come to characterise atheists as a group or subculture in society in a manner strikingly similar to how many religions or [I]other[/I] ideologies such as Marxism end up categorizing people. Atheism is certainly ideological and I'm astounded you can't see it as such, if not in its core definition, than AT LEAST in the way it is practiced by Atheists everywhere.[/QUOTE] Those are just ideologies that atheists happen to share, they do NOT however have anything to do with atheism itself. Atheism is not a lack of a belief in a religion, but a lack of a belief in god or gods. Just because the majority atheists happen to share ideologies such a pro-abortion rights, pro-LGBT rights etc, doesn't mean that it has anything to do with atheism, there are some atheists that happen to be anti-LGBT and don't accept evolution. The only reason why you're incapable of accepting that Atheism is not an ideology is because you either can't accept being mistaken, or you realize that your religious arguments (if you happen to be religious) regarding atheism fall apart the moment you realize that Atheism is not an Ideology. We have all been wrong, there is no shame in admitting that you're wrong. I think that realizing when you're wrong is more important than being right. Open up a little.

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;47121426]I'll grant you the use of your own chosen definition here keeping in mind that webster doesn't represent the ultimate definition of ideology. You are arguing that atheism in its purest sense is simply lack of belief in religion, but no one exercises atheism simply as a lack of belief. Rather, many people as atheists actually operate as atheists utilizing a body of theories and assertions that are used to disprove or critique religion as they see it practiced in society. If atheism was practiced simply as lack of belief, why are their books detailing problems atheists have with religion?? Why are their associations of atheists that exist to defend liberties of atheists? Why do people take ideas from prominent atheists like Richard Dawkin (who can be said to have contributed to a [I]systematic body of concepts about human life (that there is nothing supernatural about it)[/I] and use them as their justification or foundation for their atheist beliefs? Atheism is never [I]just[/I] lack of belief in God. Accompanying it are a wide variety of beliefs about human nature that come to characterise atheists as a group or subculture in society in a manner strikingly similar to how many religions or [I]other[/I] ideologies such as Marxism end up categorizing people. Atheism is certainly ideological and I'm astounded you can't see it as such, if not in its core definition, than AT LEAST in the way it is practiced by Atheists everywhere.[/QUOTE] Something like anti-theism or humanism can certainly be described as an ideology. But not all atheists are anti-theists. Not all atheists are even secular.

You are born atheist, free of ideologies.

[QUOTE=Muskof;47121496]Those are just ideologies that atheists happen to share, they do NOT however have anything to do with atheism itself. Atheism is not a lack of a belief in a religion, but a lack of a belief in god or gods. Just because the majority atheists happen to share ideologies such a pro-abortion rights pro-LGBT right etc, doesn't mean that it has anything to do with atheism, the are some atheists that happen to be anti-LGBT and don't accept evolution. The only reason why you're incable of accepting that Atheism is not an ideology is because you either can't accept being mistaken, or you realize that your religious arguments (if you happen to be religious) regarding atheism fall apart the moment you realize that Atheism is not an Ideology. We have all been wrong, there is no shame in admitting that you're wrong. I think that realizing when you're wrong is more important than being right. Open up a little.[/QUOTE] I already acknowledged that in my post: "Atheism is certainly ideological, [B]if not in its core definition[/B], than AT LEAST in the way it is practiced by Atheists everywhere." Atheism is an ideological stance that if not [I]an ideology itself[/I] is certainly accompanied by ideological tenements that more than often organize atheist beliefs into a body of assertions and theories. Almost no one holds atheistic belief purely as lack of belief in god or gods without a body of theories accompanying that that end up being ideological. Also nice paternalistic "we've all been wrong" spiel it definitely lends credibility to your argument?? I really don't think you get what ideology is.

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;47121535]I already acknowledged that in my post: "Atheism is certainly ideological, [B]if not in its core definition[/B], than AT LEAST in the way it is practiced by Atheists everywhere." Atheism is an ideological stance that if not [I]an ideology itself[/I] is certainly accompanied by ideological tenements that more than often organize atheist beliefs into a body of assertions and theories. Almost no one holds atheistic belief purely as lack of belief in god or gods without a body of theories accompanying that that end up being ideological. Also nice paternalistic "we've all been wrong" spiel it definitely lends credibility to your argument?? I really don't think you get what ideology is.[/QUOTE] If you're talking about the ideological circle that the majority of atheists happen to share, you're probably referring to Humanism/Secularism You don't get to take a philosophical position that lacks ideology and turn it into one to support your argument. Atheism is not an Ideology while Secularism and Humanism ARE ideologies that atheists happen to share. Atheists don't become Atheists as a result of their ideologies, it's the other way around.

[QUOTE=Squad1993;47119294]Wtf? This guy killed 3 innocent people over religion and you make a stupid lefunnymaymay joke? What is wrong with you?[/QUOTE] The bait is strong with this thread. Besides that, this is disgusting.