Julian Assange Responds to Increasing US Government Attacks on WikiLeaks - Polidicks

I still haven't seen any proof that lives have been risked as a result of this leak. This CIA smear campaign against them may play out well in the mainstream media but I'm not buying it.

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;23865266]For the fiftieth time - isn't it possible to release the info WITHOUT risking lives?[/QUOTE] No, not really. It could be released now or in fifteen years. The only possible way is if everyone involved died from unrelated causes. [editline]03:43AM[/editline] [QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23865337]I still haven't seen any proof that lives have been risked as a result of this leak. This CIA smear campaign against them may play out well in the mainstream media but I'm not buying it.[/QUOTE] There is none. Its just the FBI and CIA trying to scare people by going "SEACRET SPIE NETWORK TRIEING TO KEEL SOLDURS!"

[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23865337]I still haven't seen any proof that lives have been risked as a result of this leak. This CIA smear campaign against them may play out well in the mainstream media but I'm not buying it.[/QUOTE] This times 1,000,000 [editline]10:22AM[/editline] [QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23865337]I still haven't seen any proof that lives have been risked as a result of this leak. This CIA smear campaign against them may play out well in the mainstream media but I'm not buying it.[/QUOTE] This times 1,000,000

[QUOTE=Ragy;23864030]So yea, who cares whose lives it is, as long as their dead and it ends the war faster. :silent:[/QUOTE] This is starting to annoy me. Its not about [I]ending the war[/I]. Its about [B]accountability[/B] and holding people responsible for their actions - including WikiLeaks themselves, hence their collateral damage minimization policy. This will ultimately [I]save[/I] lives, as people wont be soo gun-ho about what's going on. And less civilians dying will mean less resistance to the forces over there. It makes perfect sense. The only thing that went awry is that [I]allegedly[/I] the documents weren't censored properly. There's still no evidence for this or that its led to deaths, but even if it [I]is[/I] true, the only thing that could correct this is [I]more[/I] public/government support. The world needs more of the transparency that WikiLeaks is providing.

I agree with the principle, but I disagree with how it is handled. [img]http://imagecache6.allposters.com/LRG/17/1733/43C3D00Z.jpg[/img]

[url=http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=981567]Is something quite relevant[/url] and suggested to watch.

[QUOTE=Sleepy Head;23860419]shoulda waited til the war was over to leak the documents[/QUOTE] The war wont be over until the money stops flowing

[QUOTE=Zeddy;23865641]No, not really. It could be released now or in fifteen years. The only possible way is if everyone involved died from unrelated causes. [/QUOTE] Wrong. What you do is you remove the names and other identifying information of informants - something Wikileaks failed to do. E: And how can we be so sure that what HAS been released is mind-blowing, war-ending stuff? It seems that more attention has gone to Wikileaks' errors than to their "scoop".

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;23869442]Wrong. What you do is you remove the names and other identifying information of informants - something Wikileaks failed to do. E: And how can we be so sure that what HAS been released is mind-blowing, war-ending stuff? It seems that more attention has gone to Wikileaks' errors than to their "scoop".[/QUOTE] Its spin. They're are intentionally trying to create a problem out of this to diminish support for the site. Hell, the FBI said that is exactly their plan to remove Wikileaks. Just in what little has been covered has revealed some pretty disturbing atrocities committed. There is so much there, the potential is endless. Also, just removing names doesn't do any good, hell, it just gives these people a more general area to cover. If they're going to go after a person responsible for something, they do it no matter what it costs, and at any time. Like I said, it could be now or in fifteen years. And removing the names just tells them they have to kill more people to make sure they get the job done. And removing names also removes accountability. Great, you now know that SOMEONE just killed a whole village of innocent people, but who takes the blame? If people didn't know that it was Lieutenant William Calley, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre"]My Lai Massacre[/URL] would have been effect-less. No one would have been punished, so it just encourages it.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;23854839]Someone is 13[/QUOTE] You should get garry to bar children from the news section On topic, what wikileaks did was dumb, but it's not treason. And they're just flat out taunting the government(and public) with that aes256 file, shit might go down

As Zeke mentioned, I don't see any actual proof this is causing any more casualties than were already happening. I see it as the federal government trying to spin this against Wikileaks to discredit them and turn them into enemies in the public eye. The last thing the military wants is critics. So make everyone just hate Wikileaks instead of the military. Unless the military releases some hard evidence that any of these documents caused a significant increase in casualties then I see no reason for me to believe what the government is saying.

Hopefully, this doesn't cause any collateral damage. I pray it doesn't. (praying *is* still allowed, right?) However, the documents alone, will give an insight to how we operate, how we think, and gather our intelligence. This is information you do NOT want in the hands of the enemy. Also, I love how anyone who utters anything that isn't completely on the liberal bandwagon, is instantly branded an authoritarian step-child here. Forgive me for not being a sheep, and slurping the proverbial sack of Obama and Co. Forgive me if I give fuck all about the "innocent bystanders" in the war. I'm sorry- I've met some of these "innocents." I've been to Iraq. I've been to Afghanistan. Have you? Doubtful. If so, your tune would most likely be more like mine. Every other veteran I've met is pretty much on the same page as me. But damn, I forget how we're perceived here- we're baby rapists and village burners. We don't have souls, and our opinions are rendered invalid here. But meh. This sub-forum is so heavily slanted towards the left, it keeps going in circles. It's frustrating, to say the least- but at the same time, the amount of sheltered rage and misinformed opinions tickles my soul. Call me Elmo, stone tossers, and tickle me some more. Back on topic- Again, I actually support examining all the uncovered documents, but at the right time. I still feel the Americans involved in this should be fried for treason. Or, if that's too harsh, maybe just paralyzed from the neck down. If one person dies as a direct results of this leak, then they should be decimated for their crimes. Hopefully, no one does- but I don't see that happening. This is too big a leak. Somehow, someway, this can be used against American soldiers. Now... proving whether or not any deaths at all are a direct results of this massive clusterphuck is another challenge, altogether.

[QUOTE=Zeddy;23864109]Have you read at all? If the war ends sooner, fewer innocent lives are lost. [B]READ READ READ READ READ READ READ[/B][/QUOTE] As if the Taliban won't try to do shit when the yanks are gone.

[QUOTE=Swilly;23863245]"We already have the blood on our hands, lets add some more to get the job done." This reminds me of Maelon from Mass Effect 2.[/QUOTE] The same amount or more people will die if this stuff doesn't get out. At least if this shit gets out, the people who started this shitfest will reap what they sowed. I don't think any human being deserves to die, but if people need to die for a mess up, then let it be the ones who messed up, knew about it and didn't do shit to fix it. This colossal cluster fuck of a war is a reality and ethics are hard to stick to. and I liked Maelon, he should have used more ethical means though. Sooo totally didn't use Morodin for a while after that. [editline]12:32AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;23863371]To everyone supporting this, they should probably believe in two wrongs make a right. If not, you're all hypocrites :downs:[/QUOTE] Two wrongs don't make a right, but it'll be Three wrongs making another wrong if it doesn't get out. Ethics are hard to fix when you hurt it. [editline]12:33AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Ragy;23863325]So lets risk more, great point.[/QUOTE] You'll risk the same REGARDLESS. There is no right way of doing this, just a goal. End the war.

[QUOTE=Ragy;23863913]Yet releasing documents which may cause deaths is alright. Wikileaks is still 100% responsible if anyone gets hurt, because of these documents.[/QUOTE] Moral efficiency is the only option. Kill one to save ten, kill ten to save a hundred, kill a hundred to save a thousand. If no other alternatives exist.

[QUOTE=Ragy;23863463]With that idea if blowing up a building of innocent fathers, mothers, and kids ends a war faster, lets do it. Hell, who cares who it kills, as long as it ends the war faster, it's ok right? It's sad that you would rather risk innocent lives to save those of soldiers who signed up knowing what they were going into.[/QUOTE] You fucking conservatives are the LAST god damn people to be arguing in defence of lives. Ragy we all KNOW you're playing a political card right now. You people didn't say a god damn thing when the US went to war. You didn't say a thing when US soldiers butchered innocent Civilians. You didn't say a thing when the pentagon refused to help their own. People are dying, the war needs to end, and with this information, and with lives on the line regardless, at least it's the Americans who instigated this conflict and the ones who thrust themselves into it that suffer and not the ones who don't want it. [editline]12:37AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;23882239]Moral efficiency is the only option. Kill one to save ten, kill ten to save a hundred, kill a hundred to save a thousand. If no other alternatives exist.[/QUOTE] Right now it's Kill one to save ten or Kill 10 to save none.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;23860387]Breaking the law! Breaking the law![/QUOTE] There I was completely wasted, out of work and dowwnnn Somebody is getting a little mad below me

[QUOTE=Ragy;23863589]Yes, avoid my post by calling it a hyperbole. [editline]06:02AM[/editline] So lets kill a few more to release them. Releasing papers are not worth lives.[/QUOTE] Let me lay this out you hypocrite: When the public cries out against a war, it puts pressure on the government and helps the war to end. The best way to turn the public against the war, is to release the true nature of the war. Right now these documents will kill less people if they were kept silent. Right now I don't give a fucking damn if the US "wins" or not, just so long they get the fuck out of the countries they should have never been in and people stop fucking dying for no reason. [editline]12:48AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Ragy;23863840]What I don't understand is why you approve of risking innocent lives for that. I don't care how bad the war is, you don't risk lives that are not part of it.[/QUOTE] The lives risked by these documents, Ragy, are the US military and ones involved. Those are far from being innocent. I am not advocating their deaths but if they put themselves in danger then I'm not going to advocate real innocents dying to protect them. [editline]12:50AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Ragy;23864030]So yea, who cares whose lives it is, as long as their dead and it ends the war faster. :silent:[/QUOTE] Ragy, you're brain doesn't comprehend that if the war goes on, more people will die, actual innocent people will die. [editline]12:52AM[/editline] [QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23865337]I still haven't seen any proof that lives have been risked as a result of this leak. This CIA smear campaign against them may play out well in the mainstream media but I'm not buying it.[/QUOTE] There's another thing: Right now it's either: end the war sooner, less innocent lives lost, not so innocent lives [B]MAY BE IN DANGER[/B] or Keep the war going, more innocent lives lost, no positive end result. [editline]01:08AM[/editline] Ki Adi Mundi's retarded wall of text pt. 2, electric bugaloo. [QUOTE=Ki Adi Mundi;23878957]Hopefully, this doesn't cause any collateral damage.[/quote] [quote]I pray it doesn't. (praying *is* still allowed, right?)[/quote] No one ever said it's not, but a lot of people like to substitute useful things for praying. [quote]However, the documents alone, will give an insight to how we operate, how we think, and gather our intelligence. This is information you do NOT want in the hands of the enemy.[/quote] You just unintentionally took a shot at the US. These documents detail US military wrong doings. [quote]Also, I love how anyone who utters anything that isn't completely on the liberal bandwagon, is instantly branded an authoritarian step-child here.[/quote] Who said this where? and what exactly is a "liberal bandwagon"? [quote]Forgive me for not being a sheep, and slurping the proverbial sack of Obama and Co.[/quote] No one has mentioned Obama. Matter of fact you ignorant bastard, the people who you're arguing against and calling "liberal bandwagon jumpers" are the people who are FAULTING Obama for continuing this retarded war. If you stuck your inbred, Red fucking state head out of your ass for 5 minutes you would see the political bullshit you're putting up does not apply here. [quote]Forgive me if I give fuck all about the "innocent bystanders" in the war.[/quote] Except you don't in any way shape or form, you're like Ragy, a giant hypocrite using political lines. Evidence is right about "Obama sheep/liberal bandwagon". You make it clear where you lie, and what your intention is. you're here to make anything the Left or people critical of the US look bad. You don't give an utter fuck about Innocent lives. [quote]I'm sorry- I've met some of these "innocents." I've been to Iraq. I've been to Afghanistan. Have you? Doubtful. If so, your tune would most likely be more like mine. Every other veteran I've met is pretty much on the same page as me.[/quote] Exaggeration is also another thing i've seen about Soldiers. and what's funny is how you quote the innocents part. Your whole post is just a giant double speak paragraph. And being a journalist and a person who likes to travel, i have seen pretty messed up things. I've been to Palestine and I've seen the shit they go through. I know the effects of military dominance. It's a disaster.. [quote]But damn, I forget how we're perceived here- we're baby rapists and village burners.[/quote] Soldiers do that, and it's not a shortage either. That's why the war needs to end. [quote] We don't have souls, and our opinions are rendered invalid here.[/quote] you sold your lives to the establishment that caused this. [quote]But meh. This sub-forum is so heavily slanted towards the left, it keeps going in circles.[/quote] again with the political shit no one is talking about. ftr, sparky, it's not. [quote]It's frustrating, to say the least- but at the same time, the amount of sheltered rage and misinformed opinions tickles my soul. [/quote] Misinformed? [quote]Call me Elmo, stone tossers, and tickle me some more.[/quote] the fuck does that mean. [quote]Back on topic- Again, I actually support examining all the uncovered documents, but at the right time.[/quote] There is no better time then during the war. [quote]I still feel the Americans involved in this should be fried for treason.[/quote] You should be frying the ones who STARTED this war for treason. [quote]Or, if that's too harsh, maybe just paralyzed from the neck down. If one person dies as a direct results of this leak, then they should be decimated for their crimes.[/quote] Do you support the bush Administration being put to death for Treason? [quote]Hopefully, no one does- but I don't see that happening. This is too big a leak. Somehow, someway, this can be used against American soldiers.[/quote] US soldiers joined on their own free will, knowing or refusing to acknowledge the illegal occupation in these countries. I'd rather see no one die, but in this case, it's "better" (for lack of a better word) to see Combatants who put themselves in the combat die then innocent civilians. [quote]Now... proving whether or not any deaths at all are a direct results of this massive clusterphuck is another challenge, altogether.[/QUOTE] this fear is a CIA smear campaign against those commies in Europe who hate freedom, Apple pie and Democracy.

Why is the war illegal? How can a war be illegal.

He must get so much shit for having a name like Assange. :downsrim:

[QUOTE=Ki Adi Mundi;23878957] Also, I love how anyone who utters anything that isn't completely on the liberal bandwagon, is instantly branded an authoritarian step-child here. Forgive me for not being a sheep, and slurping the proverbial sack of Obama and Co. Forgive me if I give fuck all about the "innocent bystanders" in the war. I'm sorry- I've met some of these "innocents." I've been to Iraq. I've been to Afghanistan. Have you? Doubtful. If so, your tune would most likely be more like mine. Every other veteran I've met is pretty much on the same page as me. But damn, I forget how we're perceived here- we're baby rapists and village burners. We don't have souls, and our opinions are rendered invalid here. But meh. This sub-forum is so heavily slanted towards the left, it keeps going in circles. It's frustrating, to say the least- but at the same time, the amount of sheltered rage and misinformed opinions tickles my soul. Call me Elmo, stone tossers, and tickle me some more. [/QUOTE] face it - the large majority of people in the military are the less educated and less intelligent. going to iraq or going to afghanistan does not make you any less or more qualified than i people in the military are generally stupid and are not educated enough or qualified enough to make informed decisions on foreign policy (enlisted men, at least) anyone who disagree with me obviously has never been in a military environment

[QUOTE=Vasili;23885807]Why is the war illegal? How can a war be illegal.[/QUOTE] The supremacy clause includes the UN charter, and both wars were not authorised by the UN.

It's a good thing the governments of the world keep secrets, and it's also a good thing that there are people trying to find out what they are.

[QUOTE=siberpredaht;23886211]face it - the large majority of people in the military are the less educated and less intelligent. going to iraq or going to afghanistan does not make you any less or more qualified than i people in the military are generally stupid and are not educated enough or qualified enough to make informed decisions on foreign policy (enlisted men, at least) anyone who disagree with me obviously has never been in a military environment[/QUOTE] Anecdotal evidence much?

[QUOTE=Warhol;23886407]The supremacy clause includes the UN charter, and both wars were not authorised by the UN.[/QUOTE] What is a legal war then?

[QUOTE=ohadje;23886427]Anecdotal evidence much?[/QUOTE] pretty much

[QUOTE=Vasili;23886618]What is a legal war then?[/QUOTE] If your founding document coincides with the UN charter, and the UN approves the war, it is considered Legal. Basically the only wars they would probably allow is if it's a worse case scenario and defence.

[QUOTE=Ki Adi Mundi;23878957]Forgive me if I give fuck all about the "innocent bystanders" in the war.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ki Adi Mundi;23878957]I still feel the Americans involved in this should be fried for treason. Or, if that's too harsh, maybe just paralyzed from the neck down.[/QUOTE] Go read some more Nietzsche and cut yourself Wait, you mentioned prayer Go read some more Ayn Rand and cut yourself

more like Father coughlin

[QUOTE=Warhol;23888485]more like Father coughlin[/QUOTE] I find it funny that perhaps for the first time, you and I aren't fighting each other, and not only that, but we agree completely. :iia: