[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;51301163]That would be true if we were a direct democracy, but like most countries, we're a representative democracy. Legislation is voted on by Parliament all the time without direct influence of the people, [B]so I wouldn't give too much weight to the vote of the individual.[/B] Particularly in this case where referendums are non-binding and strictly advisory.[/QUOTE]
Hmm.
I voted Remain and I think it's stupid how some politicians/pundits are questioning the validity of a DIRECT DEMOCRATIC vote. If you overthrow this result, what the fuck is our society even based on?
[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;51301163]That would be true if we were a direct democracy, but like most countries, we're a representative democracy. Legislation is voted on by Parliament all the time without direct influence of the people, so I wouldn't give too much weight to the vote of the individual. Particularly in this case where referendums are non-binding and strictly advisory.[/QUOTE]
Try to explain that to the leave voters. You lose a lot of democratic credibility when you don't do as your voting population told you to. Why ask the people at all if you're just gonna say fuck it? If I had voted in a referendum about a policy I cared a lot about and parliament then went "yeah we don't care", I'd angry whether my vote was "strictly advisory" or not.
It's also pretty obvious that this sort of decision could never be made without either a referendum or a new election.
Still not sure why holding a Scottish referendum was a-ok but hold one on the EU is being treated as heresy.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51301199]Hmm.
I voted Remain and I think it's stupid how some politicians/pundits are questioning the validity of a DIRECT DEMOCRATIC vote. If you overthrow this result, what the fuck is our society even based on?[/QUOTE]
our country isnt based on direct democracy
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51301199]Hmm.
I voted Remain and I think it's stupid how some politicians/pundits are questioning the validity of a DIRECT DEMOCRATIC vote. If you overthrow this result, what the fuck is our society even based on?[/QUOTE]
It would still remain a representative democracy. Their job is as much to support their constituents well being as it is to represent their desires. IMO someone occasionally voting against something they truly believe will harm their constituents in spite of them wanting it does not undermine a representative democracy.
It doesn't matter, they will vote as the public voted.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51301117]?????
There is no argument to have. There was a referendum and the majority of the country voted to Leave the EU. What kind of democracy do you want to live in where something like that is just ignored?[/QUOTE]
I don't know, the kind where you need more than a bare majority leading by something as small as 2% to enact changes that drastically affect everyone? Why is 50% necessarily the threshold?
Besides, if people were so confident on that slim majority being the "will of the people", they would be open to a second referendum since it supposedly would yield the same result. But no, apparently that would be "second guessing the will of the people", completely ignoring that people may very well have changed their minds after seeing how deceptive the Leave campaign was, not to mention the effect a mere non-binding referendum had on the pound. If politicians are so adamant on respecting the people's will maybe they should consider acting on what they [I]currently[/I] want rather than what they wanted when less information was available to them.
And yeah I wouldn't worry about being the butt of the world's jokes, that's already the case and will continue to be unless Trump gets elected somehow. If anything you'd earn more respect by realising your mistake rather than go full retard like your government seems dead set to do.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51301271]It doesn't matter, they will vote as the public voted.[/QUOTE]
so 48.1% of mps will vote to remain in the EU? interesting
[QUOTE=download;51301027]What's the chance of Article 50 passing parliament given the results were such a close race?[/QUOTE]
Reminder: Three-quarters of MPs were in favour of remaining in the EU before the referendum result, including over half of the Tories, 95% of Labour, and all of the SNP. [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946"][Source][/URL]
[QUOTE=Bobie;51301275]so 48.1% of mps will vote to remain in the EU? interesting[/QUOTE]
Funny, but was referring to the outcome on any such vote will still be Leave.
I can't even comprehend the political crisis if we ignored the referendum. The fact that referendums are shit and the public are ignorant is irrelevant, it was portrayed as a politically (yes, technically not legally, but that isn't important) binding referendum. We can't afford to ignore it.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51301292]I can't even comprehend the political crisis if we ignored the referendum. The fact that referendums are shit and the public are ignorant is irrelevant, it was portrayed as a politically (yes, technically not legally, but that isn't important) binding referendum. We can't afford to ignore it.[/QUOTE]
Would anything actually happen though?
at the minimum this means hard brexit is dead, let's be happy for that
free movement is probably going to remain in place too
[QUOTE=gokiyono;51301340]Would anything actually happen though?[/QUOTE]
Well, the United Kingdom is in a big "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" position currently.
If they vote to leave, the European community will mostly regard to them as fools for doing so, and due to the sheer intensity of the break-up the UK will most likely end up permanently stuck beneath the foreign powers, fractured internal politics, and they'll throw themselves into a period of at best stagnation, at worst isolation due to the decay of British power.
If they vote to stay, their government will confirm that it is in fact defying the popular opinion, and the resulting shift in decision-making by the political entities will put such a stamp of shame and ridicule on the UK as a whole that will of course end up with them permanently stuck beneath the foreign powers, threaten their internal politics, and throw themselves into a period of at best stagnation, at worst isolation due to the decay of British influence.
This is why I think that Brexit should have happened right away after the referendum ended. They've been pussyfooting after they realized what'll happen, and even though Theresa May still wants to go through with it, the government and the public at large are still so divided over the idea that there's no chance in hell it'll be followed through in a way that would be beneficial to the UK.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51301368]at the minimum this means hard brexit is dead, let's be happy for that
free movement is probably going to remain in place too[/QUOTE]
Hope not, but I don't see a parliament vote determining that.
This is how it should've been since the vote. Yes, we must "respect the will of the people", but why does that also mean leaving everything else to be decided by the front bench? If the government doesn't have a good enough plan to lead us through this then there should be allowed an opposition to it. That's what I call democracy.
[QUOTE=download;51301027]What's the chance of Article 50 passing parliament given the results were such a close race?[/QUOTE]
SNP, Labour, Greens, Most tories oppose article 50 which is a fair amount of parliament
it probably wont pass
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51301438]Hope not, but I don't see a parliament vote determining that.[/QUOTE]
How come a fucking New Zealander has such a hard on for locking the UK out of the rest of the world?
[QUOTE=_Axel;51301448]How come a fucking New Zealander has such a hard on for locking the UK out of the rest of the world?[/QUOTE]
Wait what. How does supporting Hard Brexit lock the UK out of the rest of the world?
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51301454]Wait what. How does supporting Hard Brexit lock the UK out of the rest of the world?[/QUOTE]
No free movement nor decent trade deal with their neighbors?
Still didn't answer my question about why you're such a staunch supporter of something that doesn't affect you in the least.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51301459]No free movement nor decent trade deal with their neighbors?
Still didn't answer my question about why you're such a staunch supporter of something that doesn't affect you in the least.[/QUOTE]
Europe isn't the rest of the world.
Technically it does affect my country depending on the eventual trade deals.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51301100]no, there is no way parliament is voting against article 50. ever. brexit means brexit. we'd look like an absolute joke on the world stage if we went back on it now.
plus, you know, 52% of the country would go into meltdown.[/QUOTE]
I'd say it would only be about 47% of the country that goes into meltdown. A lot of young people who couldn't vote would be over the fuckin' moon if they blocked it.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;51301443]SNP, Labour, Greens, Most tories oppose article 50 which is a fair amount of parliament
it probably wont pass[/QUOTE]
It would definitely pass, I think the chances that almost all Tories vote for it (minus a few hardline pro-Europeans) combined with some Labour defectors who object to the undermining of the referendum (I very much doubt Labour would feel able to whip a vote against the referendum) would make it pass anyway.
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;51301090]Sometimes you have to do the right thing, even if unpopular.[/QUOTE]
The right thing in this case is to not set the UK on a road to a totalitarian state not beheld to the people.
In other words, the right thing is brexit, try to cushion the blow but warn people about what they voted for.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51301459]No free movement nor decent trade deal with their neighbors?
Still didn't answer my question about why you're such a staunch supporter of something that doesn't affect you in the least.[/QUOTE]
This is the guy that said something like "Can't wait for the British Empire to come back again". Don't take him seriously
Totally worth watching if anyone hasn't yet:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_I2rfApYk[/media]
[QUOTE=Fantastical;51301521]This is the guy that said something like "Can't wait for the British Empire to come back again". Don't take him seriously[/QUOTE]
Disregard EU, Acquire Empire.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Meme reply" - Novangel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Bobie;51301262]our country isnt based on direct democracy[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's apparently based on some weirdo aristocracy where the will of the people is a suggestion at best.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51301527]Disregard EU, Acquire Empire.[/QUOTE]
You have to be full trolling at this point, there is no way you can believe there is still a British Empire out at this point or that by leaving the EU that Britain will regain it's empire.
Just, wow.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51301548]You have to be full trolling at this point, there is no way you can believe there is still a British Empire out at this point or that by leaving the EU that Britain will regain it's empire.
Just, wow.[/QUOTE]
Don't be scared just because Ireland is first!
The British Empire will Rise!
We left one Empire to build our own
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