[QUOTE=Boilrig;51301469]Europe isn't the rest of the world.
Technically it does affect my country depending on the eventual trade deals.[/QUOTE]
Multinationals no matter their origin would be far less interested in doing business in the UK if they can't easily export their products to the rest of Europe from there. Europe may not be the rest of the world but they're the UK's most beneficial partners and the rest of the world knows that, like it or not. Arbitrarily disregarding your closest and most advantageous trade partners to try and develop trade with other countries from the other side of the globe is, no matter how you put it, utterly retarded.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;51301547]Yeah it's apparently based on some weirdo aristocracy where the will of the people is a suggestion at best.[/QUOTE]
Yes welcome to representative democracy, enjoy your stay, I'd point you to alternative direct democracy governments but as it happens none exist so might that be a little problematic
[QUOTE=download;51301027]What's the chance of Article 50 passing parliament given the results were such a close race?[/QUOTE]
100%
So after all UK government is not pure evil
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51301438]Hope not, but I don't see a parliament vote determining that.[/QUOTE]
lol seriously why do you have such a hard-on for this shitshow of a decision
i mean considering you're not even british this will at best harm you
[QUOTE=Riller;51301005]I wasn't being terribly serious, more just tryin' to make the point that Brexit is stupid bullshit and the rest of Yurop just want it fucking over with asap so we can get on with our lives without the UK dragging us down.[/QUOTE]
come on mate regardless of what the UK does you and I both know that the EU is dragging itself down
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51301438]Hope not, but I don't see a parliament vote determining that.[/QUOTE]
the majority of the minister want to see a soft brexit if not remain, and they will put a lot of pressure on TM to do that
a hard brexit is pretty much unfeasible now, and that's a good thing
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51301802]lol seriously why do you have such a hard-on for this shitshow of a decision
i mean considering you're not even british this will at best harm you[/QUOTE]
Just put him on your ignore list already, these threads become more much tolerable that way
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51301199]Hmm.
I voted Remain and I think it's stupid how some politicians/pundits are questioning the validity of a DIRECT DEMOCRATIC vote. If you overthrow this result, what the fuck is our society even based on?[/QUOTE]
it was non-binding my dude, like all referendums we've had. we still live on an island of REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY. either way, i still disagree with the results, as it should've been based on a supermajority rather than a simple majority as it was way way way too close (51% to 48%).
this 'brexit means brexit', "ooooh we can't stop now, ECONOMIC DISASTER FOR ALL!!!! TAKE BACK CONTROL!!!!" bullshit can fuck off already. kill it.
[QUOTE=Hamsteronfire;51302037]it was non-binding my dude, like all referendums we've had. we still live on an island of REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY. either way, i still disagree with the results, as it should've been based on a supermajority rather than a simple majority as it was way way way too close (51% to 48%).[/QUOTE]
It was binding, it was set up to be binding on paper and the ruling party that pushed for it guaranteed it to be binding.
This is why if they wanted to remain, they should have never done it.
The government literally chose to relinguish their mandated power of the representative democracy for a one issue direct democracy government and this is what they decided, calling that decision into question calls into question the decision of the represented democracy to have the vote in the first place and thus calls into question the represented democracy...
therefore calling into question brexit is calling into question the current government and through that the democratic system.
tl;dr the government fucked up and now they need to eat the shit they served themselves.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51302052]It was binding, it was set up to be binding on paper and the ruling party that pushed for it guaranteed it to be binding.
This is why if they wanted to remain, they should have never done it.
The government literally chose to relinguish their mandated power of the representative democracy for a one issue direct democracy government and this is what they decided, calling that decision into question calls into question the decision of the represented democracy to have the vote in the first place and thus calls into question the represented democracy...
therefore calling into question brexit is calling into question the current government and through that the democratic system.
tl;dr the government fucked up and now they need to eat the shit they served themselves.[/QUOTE]
honestly the most ironic thing about the referendum was that it was supposed to supersede parliament and 'follow the will of the people', therefore violating parliamentary sovereignty, something that the leave campaign was keen to 'reclaim' from the eu. it was binding by intention of the conservative government, but in reality it isn't.
that fucked up decision shouldn't and doesn't represent the political system of our country as a whole, it was a mistake made by the conservatives. why the fuck are the 48% who voted remain smeared with the same shit of the leave campaign and are just ignored? that's what i have to ask honestly, it's a real sizable amount of human beings that are being shut out of the process.
this country needs a crisis sooner or later, im sick of this year's bullshit and the people behind it. either way, people will wake up.
[editline]3rd November 2016[/editline]
this shit is hilarious, i hate to be a smug git but at least i have access to an eu member country passport if i want it.
maybe i'll become one of those 'economic migrants' lmao.
[editline]3rd November 2016[/editline]
the political country of this future is fucked. i want out.
[QUOTE=Hamsteronfire;51302135]honestly the most ironic thing about the referendum was that it was supposed to supersede parliament and 'follow the will of the people', therefore violating parliamentary sovereignty, something that the leave campaign was keen to 'reclaim' from the eu. it was binding by intention of the conservative government, but in reality it isn't.
that fucked up decision shouldn't and doesn't represent the political system of our country as a whole, it was a mistake made by the conservatives. why the fuck are the 48% who voted remain smeared with the same shit of the leave campaign and are just ignored? that's what i have to ask honestly, it's a real sizable amount of human beings that are being shut out of the process.
this country needs a crisis sooner or later, im sick of this year's bullshit and the people behind it. either way, people will wake up.
[editline]3rd November 2016[/editline]
this shit is hilarious, i hate to be a smug git but at least i have access to an eu member country passport if i want it.
maybe i'll become one of those 'economic migrants' lmao.
[editline]3rd November 2016[/editline]
the political country of this future is fucked. i want out.[/QUOTE]
Did you vote on stay? Did you vote for the parties that opposed the vote before it happened?
[QUOTE=_Axel;51301459]No free movement nor decent trade deal with their neighbors?
Still didn't answer my question about why you're such a staunch supporter of something that doesn't affect you in the least.[/QUOTE]
It does, actually. New Zealand is still pretty connected to Britain, they aren't considered British citizens or anything but there are economic and legal links, what with still being under the crown and all that.
whats wrong with delaying article 50 if they're really going to go forth with it until you can reinstate some of what the EU gave you?
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51301065]depends
if MPs voted against the motion to start article 50, it'd cause one of the greatest political clashes of our time, because parliament would have a) rejected a referendum result and b) said fuck you to the government on the subject of foreign policy[/QUOTE]
I'm not even sure how we can with a straight face say a referendum that was near-as-makes-no-difference a dead heat in any way represents the will of the British.
If it were up to me I'd book a prime timeslot friday eve on the Beeb and explain why such a close result cannot be grounds for a complete economic upheaval, that a coin flip would have been no less a representation of what Britian wants.
Call me wierd, but I honestly dont think a referendum on something this serious should be called a victory unless it is at least 3/4ths majority in favor. Even then its really only about 60/40, given not every eligible voter will vote, but it still makes it clear that the country as a whole is willing to go through with it.
Funny how the Leavers have stopped saying "we won you lost get over it" now that things aren't going their way
[QUOTE=King Tiger;51301547]Yeah it's apparently based on some weirdo aristocracy where the will of the people is a suggestion at best.[/QUOTE]
guess how many referendums the entirety of the UK has had in its history? 3
want to know how decisions are made when we don't have referendums? oh, right, that weirdo aristocracy where you [I]vote[/I] for the local individuals you want in parliament, not for a leader that rules the country with an iron fist.
this court decision is great for holding up our democracy, and even though parliament is obviously going to pass article 50 (like they should), the idea that theresa may should be able to bypass parliament because of popular opinion is ridiculous. this decision gives us much-needed transparency, and the ability to actually scrutinize whatever deal is put on the table.
So great quality post from my facebook feed:
[QUOTE]LEAVE.EU CHAIRMAN RESPONDS TO TODAY'S HIGH COURT RULING.
______________________
Unelected judges and out of touch politicians have declared war on British democracy, says Arron Banks
"Parliament voted six-to-one in favour of letting the people decide. They didn't get the answer they wanted, and now they're going to use every dirty trick in the book to try to sabotage, delay or water down Brexit," said Arron Banks, co-chairman of the Leave.EU campaign.
"It's no surprise that the legal establishment has joined the political class in declaring war on British democracy. Why wouldn't unelected judges want to preserve an EU system where unelected elites like themselves are all-powerful?
"Tony Blair let the cat out of the bag last week: the Remain campaign hasn't gone away; they don't have any respect for the 17.4 million and they will do everything in their power to reverse the public's historic victory over the establishment.
"Well, I don't think the people are going to take this lying down. Leave.EU will now be going back into full campaigning mode, and I would urge anyone who believes in democracy to sign up and join the fight."[/QUOTE]
It's almost as if they don't think we're in a representative democracy or something.
It's almost as if they don't know what a referendum actually is.
It's almost as if they're fighting some unknown evil that is trying to take democracy away by not allowing government heads to have whatever deal they like without consulting said representatives.
There was SO MUCH backpedaling right after the result that this gives them the PERFECT out of this situation by saying the whip lost control of a few members and that's why they lost the vote. The few that they do decide to "loose control of" will get plastered on the news and generally hated for a few news cycles and then mostly forgotten before getting nice things for their constituencies.
May is probably going to try and get more votes done but after the main one, its a simple down vote.
They are not stupid enough to invoke article 50.
good.
but this has seriously thrown everything in the air. there's now a [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-odds-ladbrokes-brexit-legal-challenge-theresa-may-article-50-a7395796.html"]good chance[/URL] we could see a general election before 2020, which could shit everything up even more.
[QUOTE=Pie_Tony;51302607]So great quality post from my facebook feed:
It's almost as if they don't think we're in a representative democracy or something.
It's almost as if they don't know what a referendum actually is.
It's almost as if they're fighting some unknown evil that is trying to take democracy away by not allowing government heads to have whatever deal they like without consulting said representatives.[/QUOTE]
Rofl. The leave voters voted to empower a parliament they despise.
article 50 will never be triggered lol
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51302708]article 50 will never be triggered lol[/QUOTE]
One hopes, but all one can do is hope.
They're in a fucked if they do, fucked if they don't. Brexit's obvious difficulties should be apparently to everyone who actually remembers that the British Empire doesn't exist anymore, and I believe it will be all too late for the United Kingdom by the time the people wake up to how much of a disaster it will be.
If they don't leave, however, Europe is going to be fuming at the UK's inability to actually do anything decisive and there will be riots on the streets from the Leavers. It'll be seen as a defeat for democracy (despite the fact that, ya know, referendums in the UK aren't legally binding) and people will scream bloody murder.
Best course of action as outlined before is to simply pretend their leaving, and do it v e r y s l o w l y. But May did promise that Article 50 will be triggered in March before this decision, so...
I hope the Brits have a great Christmas this year, because everything is going to real bad, real fast.
The tories will fight tooth and nail for the Brexit though as the backlash from this could potentially leave them in the political wilderness for years to come.
Cameron will go down in history as a self serving clown and rightly so.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51302708]article 50 will never be triggered lol[/QUOTE]
:toxx:
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51302757]The tories will fight tooth and nail for the Brexit though as the backlash from this could potentially leave them in the political wilderness for years to come.
Cameron will go down in history as a self serving clown and rightly so.[/QUOTE]
Eh, I don't think this would hurt the Tories that much, there's not a whole lot the Tories can do to cost them the election in 2020.
I still think Brexit will go through, although this means we'll likely go soft now.
To clarify, the opposition is in complete and utter ruin, there's zero chance they can win a general election, so the Tories could just vote against A50 if they wanted.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51301368]at the minimum this means hard brexit is dead, let's be happy for that
free movement is probably going to remain in place too[/QUOTE]
If the UK keeps freedom of movement then the Leave camp is gonna freak out, that was one of the big points of Brexit, but then again the Leave campaign did also say that they'd still stay in the single market, so that's a really great oxymoron they dug themselves into, since you can't possibly have one without the other.
Anyway, what I'm saying is if the government is going to go against Leave by keeping freedom of movement, which is what pretty much started all this shit, then they might as well not leave at all.
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;51302796]Eh, I don't think this would hurt the Tories that much, there's not a whole lot the Tories can do to cost them the election in 2020.
I still think Brexit will go through, although this means we'll likely go soft now.
To clarify, the opposition is in complete and utter ruin, there's zero chance they can win a general election, so the Tories could just vote against A50 if they wanted.[/QUOTE]
I agree in that the Brexit will still happen but if it doesn't confidence in a Tory Govt could wane dramatically.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51302213]Did you vote on stay? Did you vote for the parties that opposed the vote before it happened?[/QUOTE]
my heart was with staying, my head decided to abstain last minute, the referendum didn't have to happen at all, it was literally just a move from cameron to stop the conservatives from losing ground to ukip. it was never about 'democracy', just silly little englander stubbornness and selfishness. you can see the evidence of that pettiness from how newspapers such as the sun were reporting on how now we're able to change the colour of our passport. BIG FUCKING DEAL, how about ruining the opportunities and future of a generation now of age, and further generations to come. like i said earlier, i'm probably one of the lucky ones who's able to get an eu member state passport.
couldn't vote in may 2015 because i wasn't 18 then unfortunately.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51302708]article 50 will never be triggered lol[/QUOTE]
Go to the Toxx thread please
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