[QUOTE=Electrocuter;51302810]If the UK keeps freedom of movement then the Leave camp is gonna freak out, that was one of the big points of Brexit, but then again the Leave campaign did also say that they'd still stay in the single market, so that's a really great oxymoron they dug themselves into, since you can't possibly have one without the other.
Anyway, what I'm saying is if the government is going to go against Leave by keeping freedom of movement, which is what pretty much started all this shit, then they might as well not leave at all.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much.
There is absolutely no way in hell that TM will manage to get the MPs to agree to leaving the single market.
Personally I think it's very clear that the best thing to do is to forget the referendum now that we have a pretty good idea of the economic damage leaving the single market will do. Whether MPs will see that or whether they'll vote according to their constituencies or vote for remaining in the single market with the free movement of people (a downgrade of our current situation) is yet to be seen. Without knowing precisely what Brexit means (other than Brexit), I'd hope Parliament would err on the side of caution rather than leap into the dark. I like the idea that enough of the Tories and enough of the Opposition will vote against triggering Article 50, but that's not something I'm going to pin my hopes on. I also like the idea of the Tories having to fight a general election (which if May had any integrity she would have done after she was appointed), but that's probably just me being bitter.
I am pleased that Parliament is being consulted, though. To vote leave on the basis of returning sovereignty to Parliament only to allow the Government to do whatever it wants without consulting them is hypocritical at best, and downright ignorant at worst.
Parliament won't reject leaving the EU simply on the basis that they personally disagree with it. Many MPs made it clear - in the (somewhat now redundant) first reading of Keir Starmer's bill to demand oversight of the negotiations - that they did not agree with leaving but could not oppose so blatantly the will of their constituents. So all this shit about [i]lol democracy is dead pitchforks up march on Westminster[/i] is rabble rousing bull. The Commons at this time appears to consider their mission to be fighting against an irresponsible, dictatorial Article 50 process which is run entirely by TM the PM who hasn't a clue what she's doing. That in itself would be more damaging to the fabric of UK politics than this vote has been, because it would have set a precedent for executive action which has done us poorly in the past (The Miners' apocalypse being the obvious example - most older people around South Wales still harbour a seething hate for Thatcher).
[editline]3rd November 2016[/editline]
That said, the SNP would probably be whipped into voting entirely against any action to leave the EU regardless of the settlement. Their business now is north.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;51302997]Personally I think it's very clear that the best thing to do is to forget the referendum now that we have a pretty good idea of the economic damage leaving the single market will do. Whether MPs will see that or whether they'll vote according to their constituencies or vote for remaining in the single market with the free movement of people (a downgrade of our current situation) is yet to be seen. Without knowing precisely what Brexit means (other than Brexit), I'd hope Parliament would err on the side of caution rather than leap into the dark. I like the idea that enough of the Tories and enough of the Opposition will vote against triggering Article 50, but that's not something I'm going to pin my hopes on. I also like the idea of the Tories having to fight a general election (which if May had any integrity she would have done after she was appointed), but that's probably just me being bitter.
I am pleased that Parliament is being consulted, though. To vote leave on the basis of returning sovereignty to Parliament only to allow the Government to do whatever it wants without consulting them is hypocritical at best, and downright ignorant at worst.[/QUOTE]
I know that the general consensus is that 52% of the UK population are morons, but what do you think this will say about politicians if they vote to leave?
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51303108]I know that the general consensus is that 52% of the UK population are morons, but what do you think this will say about politicians if they vote to leave?[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna go with spineless/ self destructive.
Spineless as rather than try to explain what has been happening to our economy the last few months, why we lost buying power and why we look fucking dumb to most of the world right now, they would opt to just bend to the will of a population that was misinformed and frankly tricked into voting one way by the slimiest cunt in British politics.
Self-destructive as they know what damage is going to come from leaving. Even staying in the EEA we'd still be suffering some harm as no deal we'd get will be better than what we have, and no other country or continent is as convenient to trade with, so why hurt relations when we get along fine otherwise?
This is a chance for the MPs to actually try and explain what the remain campaigners seemed to assume everybody knew, and use the evidence we have of harm done despite us not even leaving as backing. They should take it, try and inform the public properly. None of this ££350m a week!!!!", "unelected dictators!!!", "500 rules for pillows!!!" bullshit that leave was pushing.
When I went into the shop all I could see in newspapers was stuff about "remoaners" trying to make the UK communistic
fucking kill me. This has to be a fever dream.
[QUOTE=windows098;51303170]When I went into the shop all I could see in newspapers was stuff about "remoaners" trying to make the UK communistic
fucking kill me. This has to be a fever dream.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that sounds just right for 2016. I'm praying new year brings back some sanity that seems to have run off somewhere.
The government has confirmed they will appeal the case to the Supreme Court, who will decide on it next month
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37866411[/url]
And here's a poll on it
[t]http://i.imgur.com/8zhDVrS.png[/t]
[url]https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/14/decision-article-50-should-rest-pm-not-parliament-/[/url]
Thank god. Voting to leave was a [B]HUGE[/B] mistake.
I'd be more surprised if Parliament voted against Brexit, the Tories are more likely to rally around their leader than Labour are.
It'd be utterly hilarious if they did ultimately vote against though, holy crap would there be a lot of pissed off people. Fortunately I don't think the majority of Leave voters are the rioting type.
[QUOTE=smurfy;51303352]The government has confirmed they will appeal the case to the Supreme Court, who will decide on it next month
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37866411[/url]
And here's a poll on it
[t]http://i.imgur.com/8zhDVrS.png[/t]
[url]https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/14/decision-article-50-should-rest-pm-not-parliament-/[/url][/QUOTE]
Nearly a 3rd of remain voters preferring the Prime Minister activating article 50 is surprising.
People who prefer the PM triggering pretty much prefer that because they know that it's more likely to happen, and happen soon, which seems to be the most common want for both Remain and Leave voters who have accepted the result of the vote. Unfortunately yet again they're all proving they don't know jack shit about geopolitics or even just basic action-consequence.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51303108]I know that the general consensus is that 52% of the UK population are morons, but what do you think this will say about politicians if they vote to leave?[/QUOTE]
Charitably, you could call them well intentioned but naive. I can imagine there are some principled democratic politicians who think that because their constituency voted to leave, they're obliged to vote that way in Parliament. Edmund Burke (one of my political heroes) had that problem, as to whether he should act according to his belief in the best for his constituents, or whether he should simply parrot their views. He chose the former, but he wasn't liked for it.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51301199]Hmm.
I voted Remain and I think it's stupid how some politicians/pundits are questioning the validity of a DIRECT DEMOCRATIC vote. If you overthrow this result, what the fuck is our society even based on?[/QUOTE]
if you still believe in democracy even now then you've got greater faith than i have. democracy is, by and large, a joke, and the real power lies with the money and the business connections. if you believe that the political sphere in this country is out to serve the people based on what the people want, then look at how many resigned MP's have gone on to work for investment banks or high positions for contractor firms.
i voted remain, for reference.
brexiteers are all for autocracy when things go their way
[QUOTE=Roger Waters;51304003]if you still believe in democracy even now then you've got greater faith than i have. democracy is, by and large, a joke, and the real power lies with the money and the business connections. if you believe that the political sphere in this country is out to serve the people based on what the people want, then look at how many resigned MP's have gone on to work for investment banks or high positions for contractor firms.
i voted remain, for reference.[/QUOTE]
Democracy is still by far the best system we have for politics. I'm well aware in this case it's fucking you guys over, but Europe is still in a hell of a lot better position compared to other continents thanks to our fairly high standards of democracy.
Though of course, I do think British democracy would be strengthened if you switched to a PR system.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51304044]Democracy is still by far the best system we have for politics. I'm well aware in this case it's fucking you guys over, but Europe is still in a hell of a lot better position compared to other continents thanks to our fairly high standards of democracy.
Though of course, I do think British democracy would be strengthened if you switched to a PR system.[/QUOTE]
i don't deny democracy is the only way, but like all our ways, it's flawed. like capitalism; i resent capitalism to its core but ultimately i won't deny there's no better answer, it's just gotta be lived with.
The pro-Leave papers have gone into meltdown
[t]http://i.imgur.com/VhxViX1.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/sgaz9wT.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/TJZrk8O.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/UrqDjbF.jpg[/t]
'overwhelming verdict of the british public'
[QUOTE=smurfy;51304451]The pro-Leave papers have gone into meltdown
[t]http://i.imgur.com/VhxViX1.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/sgaz9wT.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/TJZrk8O.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/UrqDjbF.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
wow
how are the tabloids in the uk so fucking trashy
like, wow, that is fucking something
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51304535]wow
how are the tabloids in the uk so fucking trashy
like, wow, that is fucking something[/QUOTE]
as someone who has to handle and advertise these fucking shit-rag compilations of life-destroying scandal and pointless vapid bullshit on a daily basis i can say that nothing satisfies me more than setting a large stack of newspapers on a raging fire, because to know that someone so self-centered and so despicable as to create utter garbage such as this slaved for several hours for what is probably a remarkably good living to create this.. only for me to set it afire.. it's thrilling, it's downright sexual.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51304535]wow
how are the tabloids in the uk so fucking trashy
like, wow, that is fucking something[/QUOTE]
Oh you think that's bad? There was a big controversy today because the Mail Online headline was this:
[img]http://cdn.pinknews.co.uk/images/2016/11/Terence_640x345_acf_cropped.jpg[/img]
In fact if you look at the same article right now, all reference to the third judge is scrubbed, and there is a big void in the text where it used to be. But it goes to show they think they can try anything.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51304535]wow
how are the tabloids in the uk so fucking trashy
like, wow, that is fucking something[/QUOTE]
Earlier it was shitting on one of the judges for being openly gay.
edit: Ninja'd like a bitch. Fuck the Daily Mail still though.
[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;51304583]Oh you think that's bad? There was a big controversy today because the Mail Online headline was this:
In fact if you look at the same article right now, all reference to the third judge is scrubbed, and there is a big void in the text where it used to be. But it goes to show they think they can try anything.[/QUOTE]
Since when does your sexual orientation matter for shit.
I'm all for slapping them when they just blast people for asinine shit, I understand not having censored media is important but Tabloids just run riot with dumb shit like this.
[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;51304583]Oh you think that's bad? There was a big controversy today because the Mail Online headline was this:
[img]http://cdn.pinknews.co.uk/images/2016/11/Terence_640x345_acf_cropped.jpg[/img]
In fact if you look at the same article right now, all reference to the third judge is scrubbed, and there is a big void in the text where it used to be. But it goes to show they think they can try anything.[/QUOTE]
Seems to violate the IPSO Code of Practice
[quote]Details of an individual's race, colour, religion, gender identity, sexual orientation, physical or mental illness or disability must be avoided unless genuinely relevant to the story.[/quote]
[editline]4th November 2016[/editline]
[url=https://www.ipso.co.uk/make-a-complaint/]Apparently[/url] only someone 'directly affected by the article or journalistic conduct or their authorised representative' could make a complaint and trigger an investigation though
[QUOTE=smurfy;51304611]Seems to violate the IPSO Code of Practice
[editline]4th November 2016[/editline]
[url=https://www.ipso.co.uk/make-a-complaint/]Apparently[/url] only someone 'directly affected by the article or journalistic conduct or their authorised representative' could make a complaint and trigger an investigation though[/QUOTE]
IPSO is a joke though, the extent of its powers is basically to force an apology or amendment in a later issue, but the tabloids just get around this by making it a tiny box with the most ambigious wording as they can get away with.
The Daily Express front page editorial opens with a declaration that this is a crisis as serious as the threat of Nazi invasion in WW2, and it goes downhill from there
[url]http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/728602/Brexit-judges-block-leave-EU-referendum-High-Court[/url]
From an American perspective it's amusing to see them put European in bold like it's some foreign nation. I know it's just referring to people from the EU but still.
So my understanding of this is: the Leave Campaign promised that if the referendum went through, they (the Prime Minister) would totally do it instantly, but they never intended for it to actually succeed, hence the resignations. What this result is saying is that they never even had the power to promise such a thing. That it would be the equivalent of someone getting elected President in the USA promising that they'll fire all of congress. Then once they actually get elected the courts are like "ya can't do that". But to the 52% of people who voted for a President based on lies about what they would do, its a "muh democracy" issue, because 52% of people have no idea what a "representative democracy" is.
[QUOTE=smurfy;51304451]The pro-Leave papers have gone into meltdown
[t]http://i.imgur.com/VhxViX1.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/sgaz9wT.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/TJZrk8O.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/UrqDjbF.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
As an Australian I'm sorry we let Rupert Murdoch exist.
He tried pulling the same shit here around election time with his papers and their effect was pretty weak (party he back still won but only by one seat), do tabloids have that much of a sway in politics the UK?
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