Man and Woman are Caned Under Sharia Law in Indonesia for Being ‘Seen in Close Proximity’ - Polidicks

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49415335]That's simply fearful and ignorant of what you don't understand.[/QUOTE] Oh? I fully understand it, I'm not fearful of it and by definition I'm definitely not ignorant of it. It's still fucked up. [QUOTE=.Isak.;49415335]I am friends with several Muslim people, most of whom are fairly liberal, and they've all explained sharia law to me.[/QUOTE]... Okay, so from the get-go your [I]liberal[/I] Muslim friends are the absolutely worst source to go from because this isn't talking about some wishy washy tolerance and assimilation bullshit this is all about religious hardliners who don't give a fuck. Your friends aren't even on the same mental level as these people so start paying attention to what the fuckers who are caning people say because [I]they're the actual problem.[/I] [QUOTE=.Isak.;49415335]From a non-religious-conservative-extremist perspective, it's almost identical to christian moral law, except instead of being vague and undefined it's a more direct "law."[/QUOTE]This directly contradicts with:[QUOTE=.Isak.;49415335]I wouldn't willingly subject myself to sharia law, but I know several people who do out of religious belief. What happens when they have a beer or have sex out of wedlock? they feel bad. End of. That's sharia law - [i]the government mandating punishments for failing to follow sharia law[/i] is bad. Sharia law is not.[/QUOTE]So which is it? It's either a law in the sense that it's a fucking law or it's some "you will TOTALLY GO TO HELL FOREVER if you drink that beer" shit? I'll give you a hint here: it's both. On one hand yeah, Islam's pretty clear on the alcohol and the whoring and all that, but at the same time it's also crystal clear about what needs to happen to people who do these things. So when you have a legal system [U]based[/U] on that you have real, for-true laws that have actual punishments. This is the problem with theocracies, all the crazy bullshit that ~liberal believers~ and ~moderates~ choose to ignore is actually on the books. Here's another funny fucking thing about that, all those doom and gloom laws people claim is in Christianity is, once again, from the Old Testament and do not apply to Christians. I'm getting real fucking tired of explaining this (especially as a non-Christian) to people when they try to ineffectually compare Christianity to Islam. They are not the same. At all. Biggest difference I'd say given the context of what we're talking about is there is no "render unto Caesar" bit in any Islamic text. Muslims have a duty to resist any government that isn't based on their holy book(s) bullshit laws, Christians do not. Stop comparing the two religions.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416069]You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Almost every christian sect, from the catholics to the baptists, agree that the Jesus "fulfilling" the law of the OT [i]doesn't[/i] mean that it doesn't apply to Christians. If you really think that you have no business even discussing [i]any[/i] of the abrahamic religions - that shit is very basic and if you're that misinformed I don't even want to know what you think about sharia law.[/QUOTE] Are you here to defend sharia or something? Pretty sure I grew up with religion, which I determined to be bullshit because religion is man-made political bullshit that steers you away from faith. (I'm a non-denom Christian.) Are you here to actually discuss this or are you just justifying people getting stoned and shit? Please tell me otherwise because you are kind of creeping me out at this point.

[QUOTE=Furioso;49416060]Isn't that what Sharia is supposed to be? The antithesis of separation of church and state?[/QUOTE] No. Absolutely not. It's a moral code that applies to personal behaviors almost exclusively. Do you think the government should be dictating how your pubes are shaven? Because sharia law covers that. It's not something you can easily prove without breaking other parts of sharia law. Imagine trying to be a government agent who checks that women's pubes are shaved short enough without breaking sharia law concerning adultery or modesty. There's a lot of shit about modesty. It's a [i]personal religious law[/i], not a system of governance. People are trying to legislate aspects of sharia law, much like the US legislated sodomy and adultery in the past, which most western people should agree is unacceptable. Sharia law is not a system of law. I can't repeat that enough. It's about how many times you pray per day and how your pubes are shaven and when you should take a bath and when it's okay to have sex and shit like that. Basing a legal system off of it is ridiculous, just like basing an entire legal system off of the christian moral law would be ridiculous. Lying? Off with their heads. It just doesn't work. The people trying it are idiots - but that idiocy is [i]absolutely 100% not a part of sharia law itself[/i].

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416103]No. Absolutely not. It's a moral code that applies to personal behaviors almost exclusively. Do you think the government should be dictating how your pubes are shaven? Because sharia law covers that. It's not something you can easily prove without breaking other parts of sharia law. Imagine trying to be a government agent who checks that women's pubes are shaved short enough without breaking sharia law concerning adultery or modesty. There's a lot of shit about modesty. It's a [i]personal religious law[/i], not a system of governance. People are trying to legislate aspects of sharia law, much like the US legislated sodomy and adultery in the past, which most western people should agree is unacceptable. Sharia law is not a system of law. I can't repeat that enough. It's about how many times you pray per day and how your pubes are shaven and when you should take a bath and when it's okay to have sex and shit like that. Basing a legal system off of it is ridiculous, just like basing an entire legal system off of the christian moral law would be ridiculous. Lying? Off with their heads. It just doesn't work. The people trying it are idiots - but that idiocy is [i]absolutely 100% not a part of sharia law itself[/i].[/QUOTE] You sound assimilated, dude. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting/Trolling -- fourth ban this month" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416069]You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Almost every christian sect, from the catholics to the baptists, agree that the Jesus "fulfilling" the law of the OT [i]doesn't[/i] mean that it doesn't apply to Christians. If you really think that you have no business even discussing [i]any[/i] of the abrahamic religions - that shit is very basic and if you're that misinformed I don't even want to know what you think about sharia law.[/QUOTE]Motherfucking Hebrews 8:13 makes it pretty fucking clear, so no, you're wrong. It's in the book, plain as fucking day, the old rules did not make a righteous people, period, so that's why there's a "new covenant" with Christians. You're right, this shit is very basic, it's laid out pretty clearly but still to this day there is some confusion about this very easy to understand concept.

Strict adherence to Christian laws being messed up doesn't somehow vindicate Islamic law being messed up.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49416074]Are you here to defend sharia or something? Pretty sure I grew up with religion, which I determined to be bullshit because religion is man-made political bullshit that steers you away from faith. (I'm a non-denom Christian.) Are you here to actually discuss this or are you just justifying people getting stoned and shit? Please tell me otherwise because you are kind of creeping me out at this point.[/QUOTE] I'm an atheist studying religion, and the sharia law fearmongering is bullshit. I'm comparing it to christianity because people are more aware of christian beliefs than most others. I just want to educate people as to the nature of sharia law - because it's not a legal system that dictates that people need to be beaten to death and I know dozens of people who make it work without any difficulty in a modern western nation. Let me make this clear: [B]I absolutely do not fucking support stoning or caning of anyone for any reason whatsoever.[/B] That's a bullshit strawman argument. That is not necessarily part of sharia law. Yes, it can be, but it easily doesn't have to be, and claiming that it always is part of it is dismissing the millions of muslims in western countries that are able to follow sharia law without difficulty. [editline]29th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=agentfazexx;49416110]You sound assimilated, dude.[/QUOTE] I'm an atheist. I'm sorry that taking interest in religious beliefs makes me a terrorist, you lunatic.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416130] I'm an atheist. I'm sorry that taking interest in religious beliefs makes me a terrorist, you lunatic.[/QUOTE] and you're ignoring the hundreds of millions of muslims that believe in killing apostates, stoning homosexuals and treating women as second-class citizens.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49416110]You sound assimilated, dude.[/QUOTE] wish we still had boxes to give. this guy just said: [QUOTE=.Isak.;49416103]= Sharia law is not a system of law. I can't repeat that enough. It's about how many times you pray per day and how your pubes are shaven and when you should take a bath and when it's okay to have sex and shit like that. Basing a legal system off of it is ridiculous, just like basing an entire legal system off of the christian moral law would be ridiculous. Lying? Off with their heads. It just doesn't work. The people trying it are idiots - but that idiocy is [i]absolutely 100% not a part of sharia law itself[/i].[/QUOTE] "you sound assimilated" lmao u high? [QUOTE=Rangergxi;49416140]and you're ignoring the hundreds of millions of muslims that believe in killing apostates, stoning homosexuals and treating women as second-class citizens.[/QUOTE] christ man, i'm an atheist in a muslim family in a muslim dominated area and no one believes in that shit where the hell do you meet your muslims lmao

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49416118]Motherfucking Hebrews 8:13 makes it pretty fucking clear, so no, you're wrong. It's in the book, plain as fucking day, the old rules did not make a righteous people, period, so that's why there's a "new covenant" with Christians. You're right, this shit is very basic, it's laid out pretty clearly but still to this day there is some confusion about this very easy to understand concept.[/QUOTE] I'm glad that internet religious armchair fearmongerers are more knowledgeable about Abrahamic religions than someone who's been interested in them and studying them in my free time for like 5 years and is on course to major in religion in college. If you really think Hebrews 8:13 is saying that the old [i]law[/i] is obsolete, you again don't know what you're talking about. He's talking of the old covenant, not the law. Matthew 5:17 says "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Whoa, it's obsolete, totally dude.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416130] I'm an atheist. I'm sorry that taking interest in religious beliefs makes me a terrorist, you lunatic.[/QUOTE] Wow, pretty sure I never went the route of bigotry. You are just super quick to defend sharia law. Sorry for not being ultra-PC for you.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416130]I'm an atheist studying religion, and the sharia law fearmongering is bullshit. I'm comparing it to christianity because people are more aware of christian beliefs than most others. I just want to educate people as to the nature of sharia law - because it's not a legal system that dictates that people need to be beaten to death and I know dozens of people who make it work without any difficulty in a modern western nation.[/QUOTE]Except legal systems are absolutely based on sharia law worldwide and furthermore [B]could you point out the part in the Qur'an where it says that sharia law is not to be written into actual law books to govern over real people by real governments?[/B] Please, find that for me. Anyone really, find me somewhere in any Islamic text that says "all this religious stuff is perfectly safe to keep separated from actual day-to-day governance."

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49416144]Wow, pretty sure I never went the route of bigotry. You are just super quick to defend sharia law. Sorry for not being ultra-PC for you.[/QUOTE] You're obviously here to attack me for being a sandnigger-lover rather than engage in a rational discussion about sharia law and what it actually means, so I'll politely tell you that I don't really give a damn about your shite opinions and completely unfounded, fear-based arguments. If you want to actually learn about why these people are committing atrocities in the name of islam, feel free to talk. Until then, read a damn book instead of drooling in front of Fox as they tell you that Islam is coming to take over the west.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416143]I'm glad that internet religious armchair fearmongerers are more knowledgeable about Abrahamic religions than someone who's been interested in them and studying them in my free time for like 5 years and is on course to major in religion in college. If you really think Hebrews 8:13 is saying that the old [i]law[/i] is obsolete, you again don't know what you're talking about. He's talking of the old covenant, not the law. Matthew 5:17 says "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Whoa, it's obsolete, totally dude.[/QUOTE] lol tell yourself that, Jesus allowed his followers to break shabbat with the entire grain gathering incident. He tried to justify it but in the end, he was wrong to allow them to do that. Christians don't follow the 613 commandments in the Torah because they believe that Jesus died for their sins, making the commandments irrelevant. The old covenant includes the laws of the Torah, it's a condition. Seriously, if you spent "5 years" learning about Abrahamic religious, I would have expected you to know at least a little about the Torah

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416156]You're obviously here to attack me for being a sandnigger-lover rather than engage in a rational discussion about sharia law and what it actually means, so I'll politely tell you that I don't really give a damn about your shite opinions and completely unfounded, fear-based arguments. If you want to actually learn about why these people are committing atrocities in the name of islam, feel free to talk. Until then, read a damn book instead of drooling in front of Fox as they tell you that Islam is coming to take over the west.[/QUOTE] You're being very abrasive and defensive so what would you actually like me to do?

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49415650]When Sharia law is used to crucify and stone people, your laws are fucked up. Western laws aren't great but at least we don't nail people to crosses anymore.[/QUOTE] Christian laws are still used to excuse the execution of gay people in some African nations. I think you're missing his point - religious laws (including Sharia) vary from "shit" to "common sense". Executing people for adultery or homosexuality is the shit part, but laws against stealing and murder exist in religious law as well and those are common sense. Then there's things like dietary restrictions and how two parties can resolve personal disputes. Sharia and other religious laws cover a ton of really mundane crap like that, as well. It isn't all stonings and executions. Saying that Sharia law is "evil" is like saying that Canadian law is evil because it still has anti-blasphemy provisions in it. "Evil" are the governments who choose to apply thousand year old religious law in full with no consideration for the fact that society has progressed a hell of a lot since those laws were written. So yeah, this regional government in Indonesia fits your "evil" description pretty well - but don't blame an old book for it. Actual human beings looked at that old book and said "yup, that'll work well for us here in 2016. Let's use it!" That's where your evil is coming from.

People have been arguing over and killing for this stuff for millenia. Everybody has their own interpretations and I think i'd be best to define Sharia as its followed by people. Now if it were only small clichs of people in the woods stoning people and whipping people I'd be on your side .Isak but entire countries with hundreds of millions of people have these laws in place and hold these views. [QUOTE=Zeke129;49416251]Christian laws are still used to excuse the execution of gay people[/QUOTE] Enough of this. Christian laws also being messed up just means both Islamic law and Christian law is messed up. It doesn't vindicate Islamic laws. The west for the most part is [B]secular[/B] and doesn't base its law on the bible, unless the voters vote that in, which was the case with gay rights for example.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416143]I'm glad that internet religious armchair fearmongerers are more knowledgeable about Abrahamic religions than someone who's been interested in them and studying them in my free time for like 5 years and is on course to major in religion in college.[/QUOTE]HAHAHA. You're a fucking atheist dude, you said in other threads that you didn't grow up in a religious household. I grew up in a [U]very[/U] religious rural community, and here you come along with your [B]five years of study[/B] in your ~free time~ telling me what's in the goddamn bible. Okay. [QUOTE=.Isak.;49416143]Matthew 5:17 says "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Whoa, it's obsolete, totally dude.[/QUOTE] Oh, and Matthew 5:17? Yeah, great job on entirely missing the point of that verse. [quote=Matthew 5:17-20]Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.[/quote] [I]Which commandments do you think were referenced here?[/I] Jesus showed up to fulfill the laws and to make God's people whole again because the Jews had become a spiteful, petty people and their laws had failed to make them righteous. As if to prove God's point, they killed his son who was telling everyone shit like "do unto others" and other Bob Ross life lessons.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49415335]That's simply fearful and ignorant of what you don't understand. I am friends with several Muslim people, most of whom are fairly liberal, and they've all explained sharia law to me. From a non-religious-conservative-extremist perspective, it's almost identical to christian moral law, except instead of being vague and undefined it's a more direct "law." Adultery is wrong by christian moral law. Adultery is wrong by muslim moral law. The punishments vary according to sect and group and interpretation and government and time period - liberal muslims look at people caning people for being friends with someone of the opposite sex in the same way liberal christians look at conservative evangelicals sending their kids to anti-gay re-education camps that beat them. Disgust. There are many interpretations of the Quran in the same way there are for the Bible. Saying that it's "evil" is not an argument, it's an appeal to fear and emotion that doesn't even look at the actual content of sharia law. I wouldn't willingly subject myself to sharia law, but I know several people who do out of religious belief. What happens when they have a beer or have sex out of wedlock? they feel bad. End of. That's sharia law - [i]the government mandating punishments for failing to follow sharia law[/i] is bad. Sharia law is not.[/QUOTE] You can argue your case all you want, but if you can't cognitise in your head going up to the person whipped, or people murdered under Shariah and see yourself saying to them quite indignantly that it's fearful and ignorant to call Shariah law evil, you have a disconnection with reality that is actually quite scary to me that you hold as a member of a first world western nation.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49416254]People have been arguing over and killing for this stuff for millenia. Everybody has their own interpretations and [b]I think i'd be best to define Sharia as its followed by people. [/b] Now if it were only small clichs of people in the woods stoning people and whipping people I'd be on your side .Isak but entire countries with hundreds of millions of people have these laws in place and hold these views.[/QUOTE] There are plenty of people in western nations that use Sharia-guided mediation for resolving personal disputes. There was a huge hullaballoo on this very forum over it happening in Britain, but it was completely mundane and just a way for two Muslims to resolve petty disagreements in a way that's compatible with their religion. Religious law isn't completely incompatible with modern progressive legal frameworks, but the key bit is the latter half of that sentence. Politically unstable countries like many of those in the middle east and Asia don't have progressive legal frameworks, so judging the effects of Sharia law in the west based on what happens in these unstable regions isn't really fair.

Revoke their UN status until they stop breaking international human rights laws.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49416254] Enough of this. Christian laws also being messed up just means both Islamic law and Christian law is messed up. It doesn't vindicate Islamic laws. The west for the most part is [B]secular[/B] and doesn't base its law on the bible, unless the voters vote that in, which was the case with gay rights for example.[/QUOTE] I don't think you read the rest of my post, where I clearly did not excuse fundamentalist Islamic law.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49414850][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning[/url] [editline]29th December 2015[/editline] Why not boycott and set trade embargoes countries that do this? Not like this is Saudi, who has our oil. We did the same with Cuba for much less.[/QUOTE] lmfao no way in hell, say goodbye to your oil if you do that. And an Indonesia embargo is never going to get Australia or New Zealand support even though we low-key hate Indonesia for murdering our citizens

[QUOTE=Zeke129;49416316]I don't think you read the rest of my post, where I clearly did not excuse fundamentalist Islamic law.[/QUOTE] An explanation can be mistaken for a justification, so that's probably where it came from. It all boils down to what's right and what's wrong ultimately. I don't think everything is subjective, and anything that calls for death or punishment stemming from a harmless social human interaction can ultimately be grouped with evil. That it's part of a culture or faith does not really do anything to justify it, but we can at least understand how it exists in the modern era as ludicrous as it is, to me it's just a matter of extreme bureaucracy.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49416307]HAHAHA. You're a fucking atheist dude, you said in other threads that you didn't grow up in a religious household. I grew up in a [U]very[/U] religious rural community, and here you come along with your [B]five years of study[/B] in your ~free time~ telling me what's in the goddamn bible. Okay. Oh, and Matthew 5:17? Yeah, great job on entirely missing the point of that verse. [I]Which commandments do you think were referenced here?[/I] Jesus showed up to fulfill the laws and to make God's people whole again because the Jews had become a spiteful, petty people and their laws had failed to make them righteous. As if to prove God's point, they killed his son who was telling everyone shit like "do unto others" and other Bob Ross life lessons.[/QUOTE] I don't know where you heard that I didn't grow up in a religious household. Pretty staunchly Republican Lutheran household in the middle of Texas. I exaggerated by saying I "studied" it, but I've taken interest in it and read a lot about different topics concerning the Bible, mostly the more philosophical medieval shit like Aquinas and Augustine and Boethius. A five-second google search will show you how contentious the idea that the OT was dismissed is. Almost every theologian in the world will agree that it absolutely wasn't. There's hundreds of different arguments about it, though. Paul argued that circumcision wasn't necessary in the letter to the Galatians, but made the argument that it was a spiritualized practice and that the physical circumcision in accordance with the law was no longer necessary after Jesus had "fulfilled" the law, but that a spiritual counterpart to circumcision was. There's one argument - that the laws are no longer physically necessary to follow, but that they are spiritually necessary. Plenty of debate. [editline]29th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Captain James;49416309]You can argue you case all you want, but if you can't cognitise in your head going up to the person whipped, or people murdered under Shariah and see yourself saying to them quite indignantly that it's fearful and ignorant to call Shariah law evil, you have a disconnection with reality that is actually quite scary to me that you hold as a member of a first world western nation.[/QUOTE] I won't call Communism evil because of Holodomor. That's ignorance. Bad shit can happen as a result of legislation of sharia, no doubt, but that can happen for [i]anything[/i]. It's not innately evil. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Is still not posting sources" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

Well I just read the title as "canned" and wondered how the hell they manage that. Suppose caning is a step up from that cruel fate.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49416388] I won't call Communism evil because of Holodomor. That's ignorance. Bad shit can happen as a result of legislation of sharia, no doubt, but that can happen for [i]anything[/i]. It's not innately evil.[/QUOTE] Communism doesn't have any tenants that have people starving slavic people . Islam specifically states punishments for crimes and upholds a raider that married a 9 year old as perfection. Most self-professed communists don't advocate for genocide either.

[QUOTE=Captain James;49416361]An explanation can be mistaken for a justification, so that's probably where it came from. It all boils down to what's right and what's wrong ultimately. I don't think everything is subjective, and anything that calls for death or punishment stemming from a harmless social human interaction can ultimately be grouped with evil. That it's part of a culture or faith does not really do anything to justify it, but we can at least understand how it exists in the modern era as ludicrous as it is, to me it's just a matter of extreme bureaucracy.[/QUOTE] I don't necessarily disagree with you. I don't agree with the state-sponsored killing of anyone for any reason at all, so I'm definitely not going to find anything morally grey about physically harming or even killing someone for spending time with a person of the opposite sex. My whole issue was with the blanket statement made earlier about how "Sharia is evil". A lot of it could very aptly be described as evil, but most of what constitutes Sharia law just governs day-to-day issues and in that regard whether or not it's bad [i]is[/i] subjective. For example, Sharia law requires that all trials be judge trials instead of jury trials. That's not evil, it's just a different way of doing things that you'd find agreement with amongst plenty of non-Muslim westerners. This aspect of Sharia could easily work in a modern legal system. People forget that even western legal systems are deeply steeped in religious tradition. The reason ours have developed so far is because we've enjoyed far longer periods of stability than most Muslim countries.

looks like we are still in the year 900bc

[QUOTE=Zeke129;49416251]So yeah, this regional government in Indonesia fits your "evil" description pretty well - but don't blame an old book for it. Actual human beings looked at that old book and said "yup, that'll work well for us here in 2016. Let's use it!" That's where your evil is coming from.[/QUOTE]What's in that book though completely condones it while I could find tons of scripture that state all sorts of killing (even killing in general if there's an alternative like life imprisonment) is immoral and wrong in the bible. This is in the New Testament by the way, the actual stuff that concerns Christians and what kind of people they're supposed to be like. Islam offers far less of an opportunity for that and actually specifies when it's A-OK to kill people and encourages Muslims to do that. There isn't some "ehh, well is it really for-true new testament quran???" shit either, it's absolutely relevant stuff that doesn't leave room for interpretation. On the other hand: [QUOTE=Zeke129;49416310]There are plenty of people in western nations that use Sharia-guided mediation for resolving personal disputes. There was a huge hullaballoo on this very forum over it happening in Britain, but it was completely mundane and just a way for two Muslims to resolve petty disagreements in a way that's compatible with their religion.[/QUOTE]I'm perfectly fine with this and really, it's one of the really practical things I like about Islam. That being said though, would you eat a chocolate bar that fell in a pile of dog shit? No, you wouldn't. That delicious chocolate has been tainted by the shit around it. Oh and the FUCKED UP part about that is I just indirectly compared Islamic holy law to dog shit and there's millions of crazy fucks out there who would cheer on my death for doing so. Meanwhile if I compared Jesus to a zombie or depicted him as a drug addict, punk rocker, creepy panties thief, or anything else you'd have a hard time finding a Christian who would kill me for it. Muslims? Shit, you don't need to look far, they have an entire brand-new nation dedicated to that bullshit. [QUOTE=.Isak.;49416388]I don't know where you heard that I didn't grow up in a religious household. Pretty staunchly Republican Lutheran household in the middle of Texas. I exaggerated by saying I "studied" it, but I've taken interest in it and read a lot about different topics concerning the Bible, mostly the more philosophical medieval shit like Aquinas and Augustine and Boethius.[/QUOTE]Okay, cool, either way though... [QUOTE=.Isak.;49416388]There's one argument - that the laws are no longer physically necessary to follow, but that they are spiritually necessary. Plenty of debate.[/QUOTE]This is a big underlying theme in Christianity today, and it's largely the reason why Christians across the world are perfectly fine bebopping around in their lives under whatever government that's demanding they pay taxes and shit. I've thought this for a long time and especially so in more recent years but Christianity is thoroughly a slave's religion and always has been. Their messiah endured torture and hardship for all, serving the world until the end and being sacrificed, used up, like a slave. Like I said above, I can insult and demean Christ but you'd have a hard, hard time finding a Christian who would put me to death for it. Maybe not one to react angrily and fight me, but the most fervently devout Christians would declare that "the devil" speaking through me and not take the bait. Islam is not like that at all. It's a religion based around emulating the life and times of a fucking warlord, it's a religion soaked in blood.