Man in bathrobe attempts to shoot Quebecois Premier - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37546854]Don't people deserve a right to self governance and independence if they really want it?[/QUOTE] No because it leads to demagogues using it as a cheap way to get votes from nationalist idiots. Look at Scotland.

hmmm, a crazy man in a bathrobe with a gun [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSeaAIbc0EY[/media]

[QUOTE=Gunar;37547998]In the framework of the provincial and federal governments that exist in Canada, the people of Quebec already have a measure self governance and significant "independence" from English Canada as it is with the special rights and laws and culture they're accorded themselves and maintained for hundreds of years. Fracturing the community and society of a developed nation like Canada would set a bad precedent for whiny assholes to try declare they deserve more rights and special attention than everyone else and then in a worse case scenario you'd have all parts of Canada (or even other "stable" first-world nations) break apart for all kinds of straw-grasping reasons. For all intents and purposes its just not a good idea for Canada and generally everyone else.[/QUOTE] And this is coming at a time where the separatist movement in Quebec is at an all-time low. Yet she still was talking about moving forward with a referendum next year, even though polls showed that very few Quebecois supported it. And it's easy to say that they should receive independence if they want it, but what about the half of the population that doesn't want it? The anglophone community of Quebec, who have been there for hundreds of years, would be screwed under a self-governed Quebec. Point is, we give and give and give to Quebec, but the hardline PQs like Marois always seem to want more and more.

I think that bathrobes should be more strictly controlled. Their use is largely free and uncontrolled and that's simply hazardous. I think that at the very least there should be a bathrobe permit required and only issued after thorough psychological evaluation.

I'm pretty surprised Marois got in. anyone I meet from Quebec seems to not be a racist shitbag like Marois. Hopefully this doesn't reflect on any attitudes by actual Quebecois towards anglophones. [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37546661]Why do English Canadians not like French Canadians being independent?[/QUOTE] Quebecois identity seems to have a lot to do with historical differences and conflicts with English Canada, which over the years boiled down to "We are different, we are us. We are Quebec, not Canada" The same relationship exists between Canada and the US

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37548456]No because it leads to demagogues using it as a cheap way to get votes from nationalist idiots. Look at Scotland.[/QUOTE] Just going to point out that not many people in Scotland really want independence.

holy shit, everytime the same canadians barges in on thread about Quebec and spout their uninformed bullshit. Gundevil is a moron [QUOTE] Because they lost a war a really long time ago and continue to bitch to this day. They have no reason to be their own country, all they do is speak a language that is different and even then most people there can and do speak English more often. They are apart of Canada, they have been given all the rights for French they need, ALL our labels are in French and English, there is French service everywhere in the country, there is absolutely no reason they need to separate other then the fact they are butthurt over a war way back when.[/QUOTE] Are you fucking serious? These things you bring should be the end-all-be-all of all independantist mouvement? the label of your food is in french SHUT UP. What a load of shit

What is the point of your post? You're making yourself look worse by not proving us all wrong and instead telling us to shut up. To be fair though that's about what every attempt at a debate with a quebecer has looked like for me.

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;37549508]holy shit, everytime the same canadians barges in on thread about Quebec and spout their uninformed bullshit. Gundevil is a moron Are you fucking serious? These things you bring should be the end-all-be-all of all independantist mouvement? the label of your food is in french SHUT UP. What a load of shit[/QUOTE] When telling people that they're uninformed and that they should shut up, you should probably try actually backing up your statement with something other than "the label of your food is in French".

[QUOTE=Aesir;37550342]When telling people that they're uninformed and that they should shut up, you should probably try actually backing up your statement with something other than "the label of your food is in French".[/QUOTE] I was laughing at the point he was making, that since the label on food is bilingual that the independentist movement had no reason to be.

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;37550485]I was laughing at the point he was making, that since the label on food is bilingual that the independentist movement had no reason to be.[/QUOTE] Okay you pointed out one point he made as if it was his only point. That's all you've done so far though. Do you want to state any legitimacy to separatism or what, what are you here for?

Some of the new stories I'm reading about this says the perpetrator shouted [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebecvotes2012/story/2012/09/05/marois-victory-speech-shot-fired.html]"The English are waking up"[/url], though in French, as the police took him him away. I guess we'll get more on the guy's motivations later.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37548456]No because it leads to demagogues using it as a cheap way to get votes from nationalist idiots. Look at Scotland.[/QUOTE] At least scotland has a longstanding prior history of being sovereign, quebec has always been quite a small french colony, and it was ultimately abondoned by king louie because he just didnt give a shit, and its not like napoleon really gave a damn after that either. It wasnt sovereign in the first place, and it was ultimately integrated into the british colony that still was there after a very small colonial war that was promptly lost and abandoned. As has been stated earlier they are given all the french cultural rights they want, so splitting from canada would accomplish nothing for either side.

Why can't Quebec and the rest of Canada just coexist in peace?

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;37552635]At least scotland has a longstanding prior history of being sovereign[/QUOTE] not for the last few hundred years it hasn't

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;37546967]She wants to ban civil servants from wearing any religious thing except a crucifix, she wants to ban businesses from using a language other than French IN THE OFFICE, she wants to ban anyone who doesn't speak fluent French from running for public office, or [B]lobbying the government[/B] even if they speak English, she wants to ban people who haven't taken school in English their whole lives from going to an English CEGEP, and ban anyone whose parents didn't learn English in Quebec from learning English in Quebec, restrict or prohibit public displays of religion, she supported the student protests, and she's a separatist. She has actively attacked anyone who is a Quebecois that speaks English at all as a threat to their culture, and her policy of banning people from lobbying or speaking in front of the government if they don't speak French discriminates against the Natives in Northern Quebec moreso than "les anglais." I encourage an actual Quebecois to add on to/fact check/correct this, but basically from what I've seen she's pretty racist for a politician and wants to treat everyone who isn't French and Christian as a second-class citizen.[/QUOTE] Oh boi, here we go... Since your vision seems to have been shaped by the raging ideologues at the Gazette and other intellectual frauds that dissert on matters they barely understand relating to Quebec, I don't think citing books (FRENCH BOOKS THE HORROR!) will help you. I could probably engage in ad hominem attacks against "English Canada" and make a convincing case that Canada has no historical or moral authority over Quebec. and that at worst, its press has engaged in slanderous behavior for decades. I could do that Calling Marois a bigot, or calling the PQ bigots, seems to be the new trend. Well, not really, the PQ since its foundatin has been the victim I read the English papers in Quebec and it seems to be a common theme. However, when you read the French press, it never comes up. In fact her views are deemed perfectly acceptable within a democratic society and calling her a bigot would earn snickers and mockery even for centre-right and moderate right-wing Francophone federalists. The "evidence" presented as proof of her bigotry is mockable and often relies on ad hominem attacks on her policies and incomprehension of socio-political context particular to Quebec. And, of course, the good old double standard that comes into play. Let us be clear: Quebec and Canada are culturally different. We speak different languages, we have a different (although shared) history, we have different politics that Canada as seen in the previous federal election and the massive anti-Harper vote. In short, we have a different way of looking at things. Everything separates us as a people whether you want to believe it or not. I speak as a perfectly bilingual Quebecer, a sovereignist, a lover of cultures, and most of all, a citizen of the world. Believe me when I say I have no respect for bigots of any kind. Marois and the PQ are not bigots -- and I say this not as her little soldier since, politically, I find her and her party rather dull and predictable. My sympathies go to the further left-wing sovereigntist parties Quebec Solidaire and Option Nationale. Another note for people unfamiliar with Quebec politics: federalist parties, who wish to not separate from Canada, are right-wing, with the sovereignist parties being centre-left (PQ) and left-wing (QS, ON). Let me go over this point by point: 1) Racist? Hate to remind you, but they are many immigrants who are part of the PQ and that ran as candidates. Or are you saying Anglo-Saxons are now a race? 2) Wrong, she isn't making an exception here. She wants to ban overt religious symbols; if you have a necklace with a Crescent moon for example, that's fine. The cross of the Quebec Parliament will stay as a "cultural symbol" (well, it is) -- and mainly because Catholics around and in Quebec City if we removed it. Quebecers just shrugged because we don't have high regards for the Roman Catholic Chruch in general and have an apathy towards those subjects. Bonus: The main representative of the policy of Secularism for the PQ is Djemila Benhabib (who sadly wasn't elected), an immigrant of Algerian descent, a militant secularist, an Atheist and an activist against the brutality of fundamentalist Islam. 3) Yes, so? French is the only recognized language of Quebec, yet today there are many places in Montreal where you go into the store and they go "Sorry, I don't speak French." To think someone can never learn one ounce of French in a province where it is the official language gets our knickers in a twist. We sort of expect people we welcome into our society to show us respect -- maybe that's a French quirk, if you will. The "ban" is a measure to get people to learn French (and we offer many courses as part of our immersion programs). References: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_the_French_Language[/url] [url]http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/french-language/learning-quebec/index.html[/url] 4) She backed away from the measure, mainly because of criticism from sovereignist themselves -- and hysterical reactions from the unilingual Anglophone press who had fun with Godwin's law -- but never did she get labeled a racist, xenophobe, bigot, etc. The problem she wanted to target was the fact that in Montreal, there are many city council representatives who can't even interact with their citizens because they don't know the OFFICIAL, MAJORITY LANGUAGE OF THE PROVINCE. 5) Again, am I supposed to feel appalled? From kindergarten to high school, French is the language of tuition (with some exceptions, see the wiki article). However we've seen that French is then neglected and unlearned by Anglophones who immediately jump to English Cegeps and who won't bother with French anymore since they can live without it in Montreal and its surroundings (where the majority of Anglos live in Quebec; you won't see one in Beauce!). Not to mention their friends and social circles which won't be conversing in French, that's for sure. We feel that for Anglophones to fully intergrate into our society, this extra step is needed to have solid roots for bilingualism for the historical Anglophone community. 6) So? She supported the students against a 75% hike on tuition fees that was given out by a mafia-affiliated government who has one of the worst track records in Quebec history regarding economic responsibility. Yet they were asking students to pay up when they let their friends have tax cuts. We have the lowest tuition fees in North America and that's a great achievement. We believe in progressive policies as a people. Don't say that her supporting the students was a negative -- at least she wasn't an ideologue like Charest who never conceded anything in the negotiations with the students and never admitted to any wrong in his handling of the crisis. Good for Marois that she has cancelled the hike like a responsible stateswoman should. Reference: [url]www.liberaux.net[/url] 8) Les criss de ceparatisssss grr grr 7) Okay now you're just being silly. Discriminate against the Natives? You mean how the Quebec government actively teaches them their ancestral language unlike many parts in Canada? 9) SECOND CLASS CITIZEN WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? Okay, I admit it, we love the Nazis and shit. You caught us red-handed bro. Sieg Pauline! [img]http://i.imgur.com/j9Cs2.png[/img] Pleasantries aside, I would like to tell our non-Canadian viewers a little joke. Canadians talking about Quebec is like a Republican talking about women: they think they know it all, but they don't know jack shit. I will finish with the words of the greatest politician Quebec will ever know: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6niMyWFJza4[/media]

[QUOTE=Florence;37556004] I could probably engage in ad hominem attacks against "English Canada" and make a convincing case that [B]Canada has no [/B][B]historical[/B] or moral authority over Quebec. [/QUOTE] I can make a simple case. The French lost the colonial war. Great Britain took over the land.

[QUOTE=Aman VII;37556114]I can make a simple case. The French lost the colonial war. Great Britain took over the land.[/QUOTE] It wasn't an intellectual victory as you clearly demonstrate.

[QUOTE=Florence;37556213]It wasn't an intellectual victory as you clearly demonstrate.[/QUOTE] I don't understand what you are trying to say. You said you could make a convincing case that Canada has no historical authority over Quebec when, at least I feel it is pretty blatant that they have. How is flat out conquering the land and owning it not considered authority over it? No comment on the "moral authority" since that shit is subjective to begin with.

Florence, what do the Quebecois have to gain from gaining sovereignty?

I was going to say : inb4 english canadian goes: hurr durr they r stupid cuz they speak french. but I'm too late to the party

[QUOTE=Chernarus;37546580]Watch the RCMP ban the Vz.58, our only "assault rifle" legally available.[/QUOTE] what a tragedy!!

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37556290]what a tragedy!![/QUOTE] For people who enjoy firearms as a hobby it is. Thankfully it seems like the media is keeping its cool and as far as I've seen haven't talked about guns at all, just the incident itself. Which is how it should be.

Isn't Levesque that guy who pushed for Quebec sovereignty? What would Canada lose with a sovereign Quebec? What would Quebec lose (other than equalization payments) by becoming independent? (Coming from someone from the US) [editline]5th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;37556275]Florence, what do the Quebecois have to gain from gaining sovereignty?[/QUOTE] urgh ninja'd

[QUOTE=Chernarus;37546580]Watch the RCMP ban the Vz.58, our only "assault rifle" legally available.[/QUOTE] What's up with the Vzor 58 being a rare legal assault rifle? I actually had no clue it's even remotely widespread outside of the CZ.

Also what would the PQ actually be able to do with a minority government?

[QUOTE=wraithcat;37556344]What's up with the Vzor 58 being a rare legal assault rifle? I actually had no clue it's even remotely widespread outside of the CZ.[/QUOTE] Not really rare. Back in the day when all the politicians gathered around and watched action movies and read magazines to compile their list of "scary guns" to ban they missed out on the Vz. 58 since it really isn't that widespread or known. Because of this they've become popular in Canada to own since they are relatively cheap semi auto rifle, and pretty neat to boot. Can buy them here for around $600-900.

[QUOTE=Aman VII;37556386]Not really rare. Back in the day when all the politicians gathered around and watched action movies and read magazines to compile their list of "scary guns" to ban they missed out on the Vz. 58 since it really isn't that widespread or known. Because of this they've become popular in Canada to own since they are relatively cheap semi auto rifle, and pretty neat to boot. Can buy them here for around $600-900.[/QUOTE] Oh, so have a listed ban. Makes sense then. At least explains why UB might be doing so well.

[QUOTE=Gundevil;37546678]Because they lost a war a really long time ago and continue to bitch to this day. They have no reason to be their own country, all they do is speak a language that is different and even then most people there can and do speak English more often. They are apart of Canada, they have been given all the rights for French they need, ALL our labels are in French and English, there is French service everywhere in the country, there is absolutely no reason they need to separate other then the fact they are butthurt over a war way back when.[/QUOTE] the unbiased voice of reason [quote]Yes his TERRIBLE CRIMES. Having unprotected sex with a women who then agreed to not use a condom and sleeping close to a person after you had sex with them. [/quote] [quote]Why not just deport the illegal aliens continuously and their kids? They don't help the country out when it really needs it and takes the jobs from the people born there and who went through the proper immigration channels to get there.[/quote] [quote]And please for the love of god don't start spouting out how we live on 'their' land we conquered, they lost we won tough shit.[/quote] [quote]"Because a few are like this, then they all are like this!". Since all right wing thinking people are Hitler, then you must be Stalin. Nice to make your acquittance.[/quote] [quote]So we can keep the ban on weed also seeing as people can get a contact buzz. I don't want to be high because Bob and Marley want to smoke on the corner while I wait to cross the street.[/quote] [quote]You can't put an Islamic symbol there, as terrible as that seems you have to remember that this was considered to be a religious attack by the perpetrators, so putting that symbol on the site would be more offensive then excluding it.[/quote] yes gundevil please do go on

So what do people think of Marois' intent with a beefed up Bill 101? Also, I'm mainly hearing about her language, tuition, and separatist (although this one isn't focused on by her as much right nwo) things. Shouldn't trying to reduce the Quebec debt/fixing healthcare, infrastructure, etc. be more important?