Man in bathrobe attempts to shoot Quebecois Premier
137 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;37558021]I was going to reply to this nonsense, but fuck it. Get the fuck out of the thread if all you're going to do is derail it into a gun control debate.[/QUOTE]
thanks for your contribution to the thread
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;37558994]liberty is more important than a false sense of security
[editline]5th September 2012[/editline]
I don't know about where you're from but there's no issues even remotely like that here[/QUOTE]
i agree which is why i'm working to push legislation allowing civilian use of nuclear weapons. the sheer force of my liberty and freedom will protect you from the atomic fire that will follow
He was wearing a bath robe.
Its obvious...
Bath salts!
[QUOTE=thisispain;37560739]i asked a very simply question and i get a BIG political essay in response, even if it is concise and to the point...
well know i understand the rationale, but what's the reasoning?
lots of states have large diverse cultures that can disagree a lot with each other, Belgium being a good example. what makes Quebec different that it simply cannot feel a part of Canada?[/QUOTE]
Well, prepare for another wall of text.
At its core, Quebec and the RoC (Rest of Canada) have always been a different culture and we are majoritarily unlingual French or unlingual English despite a "bilingual" policy mainly designed to accommodate Francophones in Canada. However the smokes and mirrors of Canadian bilingualism as a fix for the fundamental incompatibility between Canada's multiculturalist approach compared to Quebec's frankly French model of integration around the basis of language and culture is slowly coming to an end. French as a language in RoC keeps receding year after year at an alarming rate, and it will until the so-called bilingualism of Canada has no meaning since it will only affect Quebec society.
Many Quebecers are expected to live by this bilingual standard I mentioned in places like Montreal and the surrounding suburbia as its there the main Anglophone and Allophone community lives. If you don't know English, it can cut off a lot of paths for you and to have opportunities its an important asset to have. The problem arises when Canada as a whole claims that they live by this bilingual standard because institutions must legally give serves in both languages. But I challenge my fellow Canadians with this: Do you think you could manage a good life in the RoC if you only knew French and not an ounce of English? I think anyone who has seen the state of French in the RoC and is intellectually honest can't say yes to that proposition. However one easily lives in Montreal or the suburbs without knowing any French whatsoever.
All the governmental services are given in English, stores are guaranteed to have some bilingual staff at minimum simple to not miss out on English customers, and you have a concentrated Anglophone community in the area. What incentive do you have to learn French and interact with Quebec as a society when you can simply live in a gated community, close your eyes, take a deep breath and pretend you're living in New York? This isn't an uncommon thing. Me having lived in a mixed suburb of Anglos, Allos and Francos can tell you that there are many times people simply tell me they don't know French. Now, I tend to feel insulted a little when someone can live in my province who's only official language is French and the majority of residents are unilingual French, yet they can simply ignore the majority of society and culture and live like some sort of colonists in a foreign land. How would you feel if someone came to your country and you gave him your hospitality and goodwill, and all he did was sit in his corner with a few buddies and proceeded to talk to themselves while simply ignoring your existence? Usually when a society welcomes someone, it's give and take; demanding that as a basic mark of respect and goodwill that they learn French and interact with the culture seems like a rather uncontroversial statement.
Anyways, let's continue. Noting the way Canada's policies have failed Quebec from a cultural and linguistics point of view, I really need to insist on the long, bitter political history between the RoC and Quebec that comes back in the general consciousness when Quebec tries to affirm itself within the Canadian Confederation -- a Confederation who's constitution we never signed on to this day yet we are somehow forced to abide to because we are not sovereign. Coupling all I've mentioned with a very clear political incompatibility and now irrelevancy within the Confederation in regards to electing PMs, and the irrevocable damage Harper has caused to Quebecers vision of the Confederacy and Canada as a whole, and the ingredients are there for independence to happen. Not now, but its still relevant and will become an important part of discourse. As you said, there are other places in the world with their major disagreements. However comparing Belgium with the situation here seems like a leap of faith. To each their own.
View it as a divorce: we had our time, but now we need to move on and do our own thing.
Florence, independence flat out won't happen. There is not enough popular support for it like there was years ago it simply will not happen.
So now god forbid, you are stuck in the confederation.
Also why are you disgusted when a useless registry gets deleted? It served no purpose other than to waste money.
You get [b]double[/b] what you pay in for equalization, Sun News did a week-long report about how much money you're given.
As for the gun registry, it was absolutely useless, a waste of money, and cost 2 Quebec police officers their lives because they ignorantly trusted the inaccurate data therein contained. If I wasn't on a phone I'd go more in depth, but it was simply a waste, it NEVER solved a crime, and Dr. Caillin Langmann of McMaster University scientifically proved before the senate, with a peer-reviewed case study, that it never prevented a single crime either. It was an absolutely failed pile of trash that sought only to invade the privacy of hunters, sport shooters, and collectors across the nation. I just wish they'd done away with the equally useless pistol registry too, which has provided absolutely no benefit since 1934, except being used as a shopping list by the Liberal government to steal Cabadians' private property, because they arbitrarily prohibited it.
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
Also, you signed CONFEDERATION, else you wouldn't be a part of this country, you'd be an American, it was the Constitution Act of 1982 you didn't sign, because whoever was Premier at the time, I can't remember, was being such a cunt about separatism that Trudeau didn't want to deal with him. That's the root of modern separatism.
And as for abiding the Constitution, your province, mostly the separatists, is appallingly hypocritical in that respect, decrying it when it doesn't allow you to oppress a non-French opinion but citing just about every section of the charter you can if it'll help you further your exclusivist policy.
[QUOTE=Florence;37561471]
View it as a divorce: we had our time, but now we need to move on and do our own thing.[/QUOTE]
Okay so lets say for a moment that Quebec does actually go off and decide they're no longer part of Canada..
What happens to all the residents of Quebec with cushy jobs in CANADA'S federal government?
As for economy, after separation you'd have no trade agreements, no trade partners, you have very little interns of resources aside from Lumber and Asbestos to provide, and your service industry, as well as many of the immigrants and Anglophones would relocate to Halifax, Toronto, Edmonton, and/or Vancouver, destroying jobs in Montreal and causing the population to plummet. You'd lose billions in tax revenue, billions in trade revenue, and there's no guarantee you'll get a seat in NATO, the UN, NORAD, and no guarantee you'll be involved in NAFTA. You'd have no military for e and be starting your nationhood with 1 possible ally, France, and enemies in Canada, the US, and Britain. You'd be cocked out of the Commonwealth, shutting another economic possibility. You'd have no international prestige and no major accomplishments to use to help give you sway in negotiations and very little to actually bring forward to offer. You'd be too expensive for any manufacturing industry to want to move in, not to mention the hostile attitude in the region pushing them away. You couldn't have a profitable service industry unless they spoke English because nobody else on the continent would want to deal with you, and then Quebec would have a northern separatist movement from the Natives, who'd rather deal with the rest of the country due to the greater economic benefits.
I don't think you realize how many bilingual or unilingual English live in Quebec, while I haven't got a source, due to population centers being focused around usually bilingual cities, I'd be willing to bet at least half the province is fluent in English. As for the "speak my language or fuck off" mentality, that sounds so very Republican American of you to be so intolerant of a differing language, especially the Nation's, and continent's, majority language. Even as a nation, Québécois would still need to learn English to deal with the rest of the continent, and seeing as it's the international language of trade, in order to deal with other nations as well. Quebec can't survive as an island of French exclusivity on an English continent, bilingualism would still be a necessity for any successful politician, businessman, or scholar, meaning the so-called "threat to our culture" is still there.
And I don't hate Quebec, la belle province describes it well and I had an amazing time when I was there, what I hate is separatists and their politicians who seek to divide a country over fabricated rifts and differences politicians have worked actively since the 1970s to create. Separatist rhetoric is full of sensationalist propaganda, lies, and exaggerations.
As for the Harper rhetoric, get real. Yes, his cuts in finances to research are concerning, but he does not take his advice from his religious views, and it's been over a year since he got the majority yet not a peep about gay marriage or abortion, as he promised he's left the issue alone since 2006 and is entirely likely to keep leaving it alone. He's even concerned about a debate about the definition of a human that's set to take place either in parliament or the courts because he's worried it'll interfere with his promise not to touch abortion. He's doing what he thinks needs to be done to keep Canada as one of the most financially strong, stable, and responsible nations in the world, and considering the world economy and our mounting debt, that means some things need to take a financial cutback. I trust his views as an economist to do what's best for the economy.
Ban bathrobes
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;37558078]Not when we get riled up, usually about hockey or our fellow Canadians or Don Cherry.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget Tim Horton's. Can you imagine the chaos that would result if something ever tried to close them down?
[QUOTE=Aesir;37562472]Don't forget Tim Horton's. Can you imagine the chaos that would result if something ever tried to close them down?[/QUOTE]
Civil war.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;37561680]Florence, independence flat out won't happen. There is not enough popular support for it like there was years ago it simply will not happen.
So now god forbid, you are stuck in the confederation.
Also why are you disgusted when a useless registry gets deleted? It served no purpose other than to waste money.[/QUOTE]
Now that's funny, because a little before the 1995 referendum everyone was proclaiming the death of the PQ and of the sovereignty movement -- polling was disastrous. Now look how close it got when the question was brought to the electorate and properly argued and defended. Saying that separation will never happen because its polling badly right now is an unfounded argument. In fact, in our politics, we haven't had a proper discussion on separation since a long time. I'm convinced that when we have a serious discussion about it in the media, the polling will show it is very much alive.
And may I remind you, when it came to, we almost won and were only defeated by the No side who systematically violated electoral law with the full approval of the federal government and used dirty money to smear us and engage in a campaign of fear. In fact, the Canadian government at the time tilted the vote by opening the floodgates for immigrants in Quebec and naturalizing about 14,000 during that time at an accelerated rate and by skipping several steps in the naturalization process that take months so they could "legally" vote (one of these happens to have been Al Rauf Al-Jiddi of 9/11 fame who gained his Canadian citizenship during that time frame), and they ended up voting for the No side out of fear and uncertainty. In total 42,000 people were prematurely given the right to vote in Quebec. Another 15,000 votes were brought into Quebec from across Canada at the behest of the Liberal Party of Canada, again violating several laws in doing so. I could go on and on about citing cases of outright thuggery and lies used to defeat us in 1995 but I think you get the point. Don't think I'm making these claims lightly; they are documented and are there for anyone who wants to see. Read Le Référendum volé, read Les secrets d'Option Canada, read about the Sponsorship Scandal in its entirety, and you discover a very coherent political operation that lied, stole and violated provincial, national and international laws. But next time, we'll know what to expect from the Canadian elites.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;37561778]You get [b]double[/b] what you pay in for equalization, Sun News did a week-long report about how much money you're given.[/QUOTE]
Sun News is Fox News North. I know about it because Iv'e watched it and had several psychotic episodes as a direct result. Sun News is owned by a Quebec businessman and media mogul, former Maoist in his youth alongside a certain Gilles Duceppe and now right-wing ideologue Pierre Karl Peladeau, who created Sun News with the advice and guidance of one Rupert Murdoch, and it clearly shows. Sun News regularly denies global warming. That's all I have to say about them as a credible source of information regarding reality.
As for your regurgitation on the subject of equalization, I answer with the book, Un gouvernement de trop. A book which you can't and won't read. So instead I'll cite a simplification done by economist and former VP of Morgan Stanley in London Jean-Martin Aussant:
"Imagine you have $50 to buy music you like. Your neighbour takes the $50, and promises to give you back $55 worth of tunes. What he doesn’t tell you is that it’s music you don’t like — and there are $25 in administrative fees. So you started off with $50 and you ended up with $30 worth of music you don’t even like. That’s Canadian equalization. We need to face the facts: We’d be better off keeping our money and choosing our own music.”
About the gun registry: I was simply highlighting the feeling of Quebecers when it happened. I didn't make a statement beyond that.
As for your hysterical rants, I won't oblige you with my time and will not bother deconstructing them. You quote Sun News as a valid source. You are beyond ridiculous and every statement you make is sheer fraud.
If you want to argue about equalization payment, I'll gladly make a post dedicated to demystifying it.
[url]http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/17/quebec-proves-that-not-all-is-equal-in-canadas-equalization-payment-program[/url]
my names Florence I deny simple facts
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
God damnit Quebec.
This video makes me mad [url]http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/canada-still-breastfeeding-quebec/1795697554001[/url]
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
Man Ezra just rips into Quebec so much it gives me a stiffy
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
[url]http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/deadbeat-quebec-still-mooching-off-canada/1795709559001[/url]
Yes, decry a news source that actually does fact checking simply because it doesn't agree with your viewpoints in politics. Fox news is an entertainment business, they don't need to have a basis for their arguments, Sun News sources facts, studies, and expert opinions to validate their platform, to discredit them on a whole because they and their sources disagree with you is somewhat childish. I hate the Toronto Star and the CBC, I think they're left-biased jokes, but I don't discredit them on a whole, only when it relates to Firearms usually, because they've continually proven they know jack all about them.
I think Rene Levesque was a tyrant and a lunatic, did I call you a delusional nutbar for calling him the "best politician this province has ever had"? No, I didn't, despite the fact that I believe anyone who thinks that man did good in his lifetime needs to get their brain checked. I think you've fallen deep into the nonsense propaganda of separatism to the point of intolerance of a differing viewpoint, and hostility towards it. Your statements about separatism are full of holes and falsities yet I didn't call them "hysterical," or "delusional," despite the latter describing them quite well. Simply because Sun News is one of the few right-leaning news broadcasters in this nation does not make them "ridiculous" in the slightest, they do their fact checking, they have their bases to back up their statements on, to decry them for having a different opinion to yourself is ridiculous, it's childish, and it's petty. When I see a source from the CBC, the Red Star, or the Gazette I don't dismiss it immediately, I check the facts and then present an argument as to why I disagree with it. I could easily say because you are so enthralled with separatism that every statement you'll make about it is sheer fraud, and that you'll cite only very selective and likely French, therefore unverifiable, and likely opinion-based with no factual background, sources to back your opinions. Up to this point I haven't.
I don't normally go on a personal attack in an argument, however you chose to attack me because of my sources, that's a two-way street and based solely on political opinion, and discrediting an argument because it disagrees with you politically and refusing to refute the point doesn't make you at all superior, quite the opposite, discrediting and opinion for the politics of it and then refusing to refute it is, as I said, immature and childish. Not everyone will agree with you politically, that's no reason to arbitrarily discredit them.
Now to source Sun News;
[url]http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/20/numbers-dont-lie-equalization-rewards-bad-economic-policies[/url]
[url]http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/17/quebec-proves-that-not-all-is-equal-in-canadas-equalization-payment-program[/url]
[url]http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/21/equalization-only-promotes-lazy-spending-habits-2[/url]
[url]http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/22/equalization-too-complex-to-be-legit[/url]
[url]http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/23/equalization-not-unworthy-just-broken[/url]
[img]http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod-images/1297301954073_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80[/img]
[img]http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod-images/1297301055706_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80[/img]
[img]http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod-images/1297302232024_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80[/img]
They did a rather extensive analysis of this just prior to the election, and discovered Quebec has received a quarter of a TRILLION dollars just in Equalization payments since they began in 1957. Quebec also has the second highest debt, next to Ontario, and holy shit Dalton thanks for fucking us over with that, I didn't realize debt in Ontario was that high. We need to crash the Grit minority here and elect the Tories to do some budget balancing, considering it's the NDP who set us up for this and the Liberals who've dug us farther into it.
Then let's look at the National Post, even though you'll simply dismiss them, as you did earlier:
[url]http://news.nationalpost.com/photo_gallery/graphic-the-inequality-of-equualization-payments/[/url]
[img]http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/equal.jpg[/img]
Quebec has received $50 BILLION from the feds in the last 6 years, the next highest being the Forgotten Province of Manitoba at $12 billion. I doubt severely that Quebec has put in $100 billion to Equalization over the last 6 years, by the fact that Alberta isn't even on that list, I'd say they probably fronted most of the bill, followed by BC and Ontario, the next highest contributors. As a matter of fact, Alberta hasn't qualified for equalization in decades, and this year is the first time Ontario has ever qualified.
And oh my God conspiracy theories about the 1995 referendum! If that were truly the case investigations and lawsuits would have been launched by the "Oui" side of the campaign, and it would have lead to another referendum after they would have proven fraud, which they didn't and there wasn't. I remember watching a recording of the results of the vote, the leader of the losing side was so petty about it, "I know 60% of Quebec wants this, but we were defeated by Anglophones and Immigrants!" What was the last thing he said, something to the effect of "We will not wait another 15 years to hold this vote again," wasn't it? 15 years have come and gone, and nothing. It's entirely unlikely Marois will even make an attempt at it now, too, because separation is still an unpopular issue that most of Quebec doesn't actually want. You ask us to investigate the sponsorship scandal, which if I'm not mistaken involved a lot of businesses whose leaders were quite friendly with the Grits, not the separation issue.
And let's not forget during that time the Liberals had a strong presence in Quebec and Jean Chretien was the leader, a Quebecois. I suppose you brought about your own "demise", if you will.
As for the gun registry, again, I doubt it. Your parliament made no effort to demonstrate HOW they were going to maintain a provincial registry, not to mention that since the federal one only had an estimated 48% compliance, for a provincial one in Quebec, when you can buy a gun online from BC, the compliance will likely be at 20% at best, and it couldn't have jail time as a punishment as provinces have on authority over federal criminal law, and the registry was a matter of federal, criminal law. The punishment would be a fine at worst. And I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of Quebecois hunters, sports shooters, and collectors were quite happy when the registry was supposed to die, and pissed when Charest tried to interfere with federal jurisdiction. Quebec has the second highest amount of firearms owners in the country, next to Ontario, I think more people opposed it than you think, it's not a "western policy" in the slightest to get rid of it, as most guns are in the east, Ontario and Quebec. The sentiment was likely meant to purposely cause division between Quebec and the RoC, and any opposition to its abolition likely arises from EP and Dawson, neither of which were or could have been prevented by a registry. While there was no registry at the time of EP, there was at the time of Dawson, and I think that sufficiently proved its inability to stop a mass shooting, having a piece of paper for a gun doesn't magically make it unable to be used for ill intent, as so many proponents of the registry seem to believe, just like not having that slip of paper doesn't guarantee the gun will be used for ill intent.
[QUOTE=Florence;37564331]And may I remind you, when it came to, we almost won and were only defeated by the No side who systematically violated electoral law with the full approval of the federal government and used dirty money to smear us and engage in a campaign of fear. In fact, the Canadian government at the time tilted the vote by opening the floodgates for immigrants in Quebec and naturalizing about 14,000 during that time at an accelerated rate and by skipping several steps in the naturalization process that take months so they could "legally" vote (one of these happens to have been Al Rauf Al-Jiddi of 9/11 fame who gained his Canadian citizenship during that time frame), and they ended up voting for the No side out of fear and uncertainty.[/QUOTE]
Money and the ethnic vote. Parizeau would be proud.
I have learned more about Canada in this thread then I have my entire historical studies.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;37569034]I have learned more about Canada in this thread then I have my entire historical studies.[/QUOTE]
That's the key thing, you're getting two very different opinions on the same topic, and that allows you to see both sides of the issue and not only get a more full understanding of the scenario, history, and social aspects of the topic, but you're given the material to be able to develop your own opinion in a fair manner, having heard both sides of it.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;37564440][url]http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/17/quebec-proves-that-not-all-is-equal-in-canadas-equalization-payment-program[/url]
my names Florence I deny simple facts
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
God damnit Quebec.
This video makes me mad [url]http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/canada-still-breastfeeding-quebec/1795697554001[/url]
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
Man Ezra just rips into Quebec so much it gives me a stiffy
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
[url]http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/deadbeat-quebec-still-mooching-off-canada/1795709559001[/url][/QUOTE]
Thank you for showing who you really are with your full-on Quebec bashing. I have no arguments for you; fuck off you little prejudiced, irrational moron. I try to educate and I spend time on my post; you vomit out mythology, nonsense, hate and fear mongering. I won't bother answering any of your follow-up posts as its as productive as arguing with a Flat-Earther or a Holocaust Denier.
In the interests of those who aren't disciples of Richler, let me lay out my case:
Orgins of Sun News AKA Fox News North: [url]http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fox-news-north-secures-broadcast-49377[/url]
Example of Global Warming denial from Sun News who promotes a known charlatan: [url]http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/1662151109001[/url]
[url]http://www.skepticalscience.com/bob-carters-financial-post-gish-gallop-scientific-denial.html[/url]
Now, about equalization payments...
[quote=Jean-Martin Aussant, translated][...] Another argument that federalists will often use is equalization. That famous equalization. It's often times the final argument for a federalist. "You depend of equalization payments and if you seperate you will lose out." There are so many things to say about equalization payments that you could hold a 3 hour conference uniquely on that subject. Firstly, Canada doesn't have a magic recipe regarding equalization. As you know, regarding OECD countries ... most have a equalization system in place and Canada is about dead last in terms of equalization; its barely 1% of GDP unlike Japan, Norway, and even Mexico where its at about 4% of GDP. [...] Secondly, it is said that Quebec is the principal beneficiary of equalization payments. Federalists will tell you, "So many billions are given to Quebec so it depends on equalization." If we take the global number, its true that its quite high; we are 8 million Quebecers right now. If you multiply that number with the equalization-per-person, you get a big global number. However if you look at the equalization-per-person, you will notice that we get the less money per person in the whole of Canada--if we exclude Ontario which just started getting equalization payments. Out of all the other provinces, we receive the less per person, but federalists will point to the global number that makes us look like we're getting a free ride. Secondly, the reason why we have more generous social services that in the rest of North America, it's not because Canada finances them via equalization; its because we have higher taxes that elsewhere and that we collectively decided to give ourselves these services. We are paying for our services--its not Canada being charitable by giving us equalization so we can pay ourselves additional services compared to our neighbors.
Source: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsGZQpJSCYU[/url]
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Florence;37569232]Thank you for showing who you really are with your full-on Quebec bashing. I have no arguments for you; fuck off you little prejudiced, irrational moron. I try to educate and I spend time on my post; you vomit out mythology, nonsense, hate and fear mongering. I won't bother answering any of your follow-up posts as its as productive as arguing with a Flat-Earther or a Holocaust Denier.
In the interests of those who aren't disciples of Richler, let me lay out my case:
Orgins of Sun News AKA Fox News North: [URL]http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fox-news-north-secures-broadcast-49377[/URL]
Example of Global Warming denial from Sun News who promotes a known charlatan: [URL]http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/1662151109001[/URL]
[URL]http://www.skepticalscience.com/bob-carters-financial-post-gish-gallop-scientific-denial.html[/URL]
Now, about equalization payments...[/QUOTE]
Hahahahah are you honestly retarded?
I was expecting you to at least try and counter argue and it'd make an interesting back and forth but no you can't even do that since at this point it's become clear who is right and who is wrong.
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
Oh I see you were referring to me specifically. More so the person in the video is doing the Quebec bashing, not like I'm personally saying those things.
I can admit I've been doing some Quebec bashing here but I think you've lost the argument at this point since you bring nothing to the table other than insults and weird conspiracy theories.
Damn shame gunfox wasn't there to shoot everyone down
So per capita PEI does benefit the most from equalization. But compare PEI's population to Quebec,
(PEI = 140,204 people , Quebec = 7,903,001 people). This on top of the fact that PEI is a minuscule island with a minuscule economy in comparison to Quebec who if things were done correctly has the capacity to flourish a lot more than it currently is.
Same sort of situation with the other maritime provinces who rank below PEI in equalization benefits and less forgiving with Manitoba.
[B]Edit:[/B] my little kid analogy seemed weird after rereading it
Quebec's yearly equalization is a bit below ALL other provinces equalization programs combined. Assuringly this billion dollar amount will continue to grow especially with the new government in Quebec now.
(
Quebec ($7.391 billion)
Ontario ($3.261 billion)
Manitoba ($1.671 billion)
New Brunswick ($1.495 billion)
Nova Scotia ($1.268 billion)
Prince Edward Island ($337 million)
)
It's not like the other recipient provinces are innocent they clearly have their fair share of problems but it seems like Quebec is the worst offender out of all of them. They've historically been the worst offender (note previous graphs) and seem to be continuing this trend into the future.
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
You can reference the couple graphs Dacommie posted for further information and comparison
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
Battle of the post edits: Quebec edition
[editline]6th September 2012[/editline]
And as Dacommie said earlier in the thread, the equalization issue might not have been as big of a deal if Quebec at the same time as receiving these huge payments didn't try and shit talk other provinces in how they run things and give the finger to "the anglo oppressors"
started with a Jimlahey kinda guy trying to kill pauline marois
and it quickly turned into a debate on separation ...
Guys lets not forget that 1 man stood up to the gunman and prolly saved lots of lives that night.
RIP Denis blanchette
A normal citizen who became a hero
[QUOTE=genyus;37569757]started with a Jimlahey kinda guy trying to kill pauline marois
and it quickly turned into a debate on separation ...
Guys lets not forget that 1 man stood up to the gunman and prolly saved lots of lives that night.
RIP Denis blanchette
A normal citizen who became a hero[/QUOTE]
Debates are fun. I learn stuff and at the same time get angry and get to argue.
But I concur, RIP.
-Snip, not talking to me-
And really how were the videos I posted "mythology, nonsense, hate and fear mongering"?
Sure Ezra is pretty inflammatory and doesn't seem to pull any punches when talking about Quebec but ignoring his jabs the substance of his argument makes sense and I don't see how you can just dismiss it outright as being "prejudiced"
[QUOTE=Aman VII;37569902]And really how were the videos I posted "mythology, nonsense, hate and fear mongering"?
Sure Ezra is pretty inflammatory and doesn't seem to pull any punches when talking about Quebec but ignoring his jabs the substance of his argument makes sense and I don't see how you can just dismiss it outright as being "prejudiced"[/QUOTE]
Actually, pissing the people he is attacking off is what Ezra tries to do; he's managed to piss off most of Quebec, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Muslims, Occupy, Palestine, the Ryerson University Student's Union, the Coalition for Gun Control (who just flat out hate Sun News as a whole), and he seems to make it his goal to piss off at least 1 Liberal/NDP a day. And that's just what I can remember off the top of my head. He has substance behind his statements and arguments, but his adversarial attitude only seeks to give him credibility with those who agree with him, those who don't will decry him and shut him out; calling him a terrible, prejudiced, intolerant tool.
First off, Dacommie is a lunatic. He's a crazy right-wing asshole that repeats every possible stereotype and attacks on Quebec (brats, freeloaders, racists, anti-English, tribalism, etc) and thinks Rene Levesque was a crazy dictator. I'm surprised he hasn't yet claimed that the PQ's theme is inspired by the Hitler Youth. He has never lived here and thinks of us as this place full of freeloaders and commies from his high throne over in Canadia. Read his posts and judge for yourself the tenor and mental well being of this person. He never had any interest in meaningful discussion--he came here to put me down and humiliate me because I stood up against this fucking stupid ass Quebec Bashing at the begging of this thread. He probably cheated his way through history classes because not even an ill-informed person can make the assertions he has. Though he might not admit it, deep down he would've liked it if our crazy Rhodesian bathrobe guy killed Marois to stop the "English oppression".
Unfortunately, most of my sources are in French and are scholarly books instead of flashy articles in a thrashy newspaper. And since the Canadian press has an anti-Quebec slant when it comes to, well, about every issue, as we saw when it continually repeated the government side of the story during the student protests or when they continually call Marois a bigot and a racist, I can't argue back in English. I have no intention of translating these books to make my arguments on an internet forum. And again, I don't argue with hysterics who deep down just don't understand anything about Quebec and just want me to shut up and Speak White.
The Toronto Sun is a garbage publication like Sun News is a garbage TV channel. It's meant to pander to a certain audience which you are a part of. Reactionary, right-wing, and primitive. I think progressive Canadians, or progressive folks in general, can recognize this. I dare you to watch some some Sun News alongside Fox News. Same tactics, same rhetoric, but in a Canadian context. In fact, they simply use the classical Hitlerian tactic American media is so famous for: that if you repeat a big lie enough times, people will catch on. Even when a liberal watches Fox New or Sun News, a little voice in their mind is going, "Well, maybe there is some truth to it... It's not like they could be brazen enough to lie about such serious matters, right?" Federalists base their arguments on fear and deterrence rather than on positiveness, and select their sources and arrange the numbers as they please to come to the inevitable conclusion that Quebec are a bunch of undeserving welfare queens.
At their core, obscurantist Harper-voting Canadians such as yourself hate Quebecers like me because we simply tell you to fuck off with that superiority complex you've had towards us since the Conquest. The put-downs don't work on us separatists and we have no allegiance to your Canada, and you can't take it. We are everything you hate: NDP-voting, peace-loving, weed-smoking, equality-seeking Frogs in North fucking America. On te fait chier maudite pourriture!
But tell me Dacommie, with all this hate and fucking bitching about Quebec and their "welfare state", why do you even care if we leave or not? Why not kick us out if we are hogging you?
Would you even recognize a majority vote for separation if another referendum took place?
Now to lighten the mood with satire:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drqz28nvzLc[/media]
There's one person here tossing out stereotypes. And I don't think it's Dacommie.
[QUOTE=Florence;37570835]First off, Dacommie is a lunatic. He's a crazy right-wing asshole that repeats every possible stereotype and attacks on Quebec (brats, freeloaders, racists, anti-English, tribalism, etc) and thinks Rene Levesque was a crazy dictator. I'm surprised he hasn't yet claimed that the PQ's theme is inspired by the Hitler Youth. He has never lived here and thinks of us as this place full of freeloaders and commies from his high throne over in Canadia. Read his posts and judge for yourself the tenor and mental well being of this person. He never had any interest in meaningful discussion--he came here to put me down and humiliate me because I stood up against this fucking stupid ass Quebec Bashing at the begging of this thread. He probably cheated his way through history classes because not even an ill-informed person can make the assertions he has. Though he might not admit it, deep down he would've liked it if our crazy Rhodesian bathrobe guy killed Marois to stop the "English oppression".
Unfortunately, most of my sources are in French and are scholarly books instead of flashy articles in a thrashy newspaper. And since the Canadian press has an anti-Quebec slant when it comes to, well, about every issue, as we saw when it continually repeated the government side of the story during the student protests or when they continually call Marois a bigot and a racist, I can't argue back in English. I have no intention of translating these books to make my arguments on an internet forum. And again, I don't argue with hysterics who deep down just don't understand anything about Quebec and just want me to shut up and Speak White.
The Toronto Sun is a garbage publication like Sun News is a garbage TV channel. It's meant to pander to a certain audience which you are a part of. Reactionary, right-wing, and primitive. I think progressive Canadians, or progressive folks in general, can recognize this. I dare you to watch some some Sun News alongside Fox News. Same tactics, same rhetoric, but in a Canadian context. In fact, they simply use the classical Hitlerian tactic American media is so famous for: that if you repeat a big lie enough times, people will catch on. Even when a liberal watches Fox New or Sun News, a little voice in their mind is going, "Well, maybe there is some truth to it... It's not like they could be brazen enough to lie about such serious matters, right?" Federalists base their arguments on fear and deterrence rather than on positiveness, and select their sources and arrange the numbers as they please to come to the inevitable conclusion that Quebec are a bunch of undeserving welfare queens.
At their core, obscurantist Harper-voting Canadians such as yourself hate Quebecers like me because we simply tell you to fuck off with that superiority complex you've had towards us since the Conquest. The put-downs don't work on us separatists and we have no allegiance to your Canada, and you can't take it. We are everything you hate: NDP-voting, peace-loving, weed-smoking, equality-seeking Frogs in North fucking America. On te fait chier maudite pourriture!
But tell me Dacommie, with all this hate and fucking bitching about Quebec and their "welfare state", why do you even care if we leave or not? Why not kick us out if we are hogging you?
Would you even recognize a majority vote for separation if another referendum took place?
Now to lighten the mood with satire:
[/QUOTE]
Wow just a wall of ad hominem and no counter arguments whatsoever.
You want to talk about lunatic, your rantings are starting to resemble one
[QUOTE=Florence;37570835]something dumb again[/QUOTE]
What are you doing, stop being a whiny little bitch, he debated with you and had valid points to all your arguments and now you're just making yourself look bad.
Also "I HAVE SOURCES THAT PROVE YOU WRONG BUT THEY ARE IN FRENCH SO I CAN'T SHOW YOU" isn't an argument. That's not how debating works. You either show the information to back up what you said, or what you are saying is pretty much moot.
It's not like you don't speak English and couldn't translate it and its not like you couldn't just give us an exact reference and we could go look and translate it or attempt to read it ourselves.
[editline]7th September 2012[/editline]
Like really, you didn't even address any of what Dacommie posted. So I guess you conceded that he's right about the equalization program? Cause you can't seem to bring up any sort of rebuttal to what he said.
[editline]7th September 2012[/editline]
Separatists have a really fucking weird victim complex
[editline]7th September 2012[/editline]
And as stated before Quebec isn't going to separate. At this point separatism is pretty dead in the water at least in the public's eye. In [I]Quebec's[/I] public eye. You still have some down right ludicrous hard-liners (such as yourself) but you are no where near the majority.
Your best bet was 30 or 40 years ago.
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