• Infinity Ward: Making a new game other than Call of Duty would be "the easy way out"
    232 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Juniez;42028403]if you wanted to guarantee yourself 'real money' then you'd get a proper job at a AAA studio which, surprise! military shooters[/QUOTE] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games"]lol, AAA studios and military shooters aren't'[/URL] the only games [URL="http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-top-10-highest-grossing-video-games-of-all-time-2012-6?op=1"]out there or the only[/URL] games making tons of money . Nor are they the only AAA style games out there.[/URL] why does it have to be military shooter? Why can't it be a MMO? Or a space shooter? or a horror game? Military shooters are the only ones that are guaranteed to sell?
[QUOTE=J!NX;42028431][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games"]lol, AAA studios and military shooters aren't'[/URL] the only games [URL="http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-top-10-highest-grossing-video-games-of-all-time-2012-6?op=1"]out there or the only[/URL] games making tons of money . Nor are they the only AAA style games out there.[/URL] why does it have to be military shooter? Why can't it be a MMO? Or a space shooter? or a horror game? Military shooters are the only ones that are guaranteed to sell?[/QUOTE] it doesn't, but you seemed to enjoy using modern military shooters as the bane of innovation so i thought i'd throw that in [QUOTE=Juniez;42028403]which, surprise! AAA studios develop video games that don't necessarily innovate but nevertheless are enjoyable and make tons of money, contrary to J!NX's claim[/QUOTE] is that better?
[QUOTE=Juniez;42028448]it doesn't. but you seemed to enjoy using modern military shooters as the bane of innovation so i thought i'd throw that in[/QUOTE] I'd say "Except I wasn't" but you pretty much just seem to want to try and be only smart and witty at this point instead of actually saying something you can be original and make something out of a common genre, it just has to be FUN. How the hell are you going to make a fun military shooter if you don't be original? Like CoD was and seems to keep being, or Battle Field. If you start a new series you have to have something that makes it stand out. CoD and BF3 were innovative, same with lot of military shooters But guess what happens if you tried to copy others without changing enough [t]http://media.psu.com/media/wallpapers/11-03-26-05-15_0_homefront_1.jpeg[/t] ok yeah you make money but if it stands out better it will make WAY, WAY, WAY more money If they don't do something good and just try and copy the formula you end up with a shitty game and lose money and nothing happens for you. not trying something at least a little different is fucking stupid. the only reason Call of duty is still alive is because they refreshen the game up every year as much as they can for the fans. [QUOTE=Juniez;42028448]is that better?[/QUOTE] lol, AAA games can be very innovative if they weren't then how the fuck would they make money
[QUOTE=J!NX;42028213]I mean being a dev is all about trying to make the latest and greatest game, and doing new things,[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=J!NX;42025205]isn't that what being a dev is all about? making new games and tech?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=J!NX;42025757] it's about the fact that being a dev should be about also taking risks, not, purely just making profit.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=J!NX;42025559] I just don't like the idea of doing only 1 series, even if it is easier that way. they could make a game about shitting off of a bridge onto cars for all I care.[/QUOTE] • [QUOTE=J!NX;42023698]Infinity Ward is a joke lmao[/QUOTE] . . . . . [QUOTE=J!NX;42028535] CoD and BF3 were innovative, same with lot of military shooters[/QUOTE] great. ok. glad we're on the same page now [editline]31st August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;42028535]But guess what happens if you tried to copy others without changing enough [t]http://media.psu.com/media/wallpapers/11-03-26-05-15_0_homefront_1.jpeg[/t][/QUOTE] but guess what happens if you try to take a fresh spin on a tried-and-true formula [t]http://www.newgamernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ti_1.jpg[/t] innovation correlates to jack shit financially [QUOTE=J!NX;42028535]lol, AAA games can be very innovative if they weren't then how the fuck would they make money[/QUOTE] quality, production, and brand recognition is literally the only thing that seperates, say... call of duty from homefront
[QUOTE=Juniez;42028578] great. ok. glad we're on the same page now [B]I said IW was a joke because they sounded like they were bullshitting, and thought that "wouldn't it be easier to just milk what you know?"[/B] Edited: but guess what happens if you try to take a fresh spin on a tried-and-true formula [B] thats what I've been saying this entire time, have you even read ANYTHING I said? you just seem to be trying to be smart and witty, you aren't even really saying anything[/B] innovation correlates to jack shit financially [B]Innovation is how HL2 was voted game of the decade. I don't get it, are you for making exactly the same game over and over again? or for changing things around and making it 'new' and original?[/B] quality, production, and brand recognition is literally the only thing that seperates, say... call of duty from homefront [B]and yet most people say Call of Duty is very average, but due to its attention and hype it sells well[/B] [/QUOTE] also, format your posts properly, stop with the . . . . huge gaps
[QUOTE=J!NX;42028535]the only reason Call of duty is still alive is because they refreshen the game up every year as much as they can for the fans.[/QUOTE] wait what was your point again? something about how IW should try something other than Call of Duty anymore because "IW does the same game series every year. Yeah, its a fun game, but they already have the formula down, its just a matter of recreating it."
[QUOTE=Juniez;42028670]wait what was your point again? something about how IW should try something other than Call of Duty anymore because "IW does the same game series every year. Yeah, its a fun game, but they already have the formula down, its just a matter of recreating it."[/QUOTE] I said they didn't' have to abandon CoD and, you do realize that if everyone else did the same thing as Call of Duty, games would get insanely boring? Just because CoD sells well as an exception doesn't mean CoD clones will sell well. They do the same series every year but Jesus Christ, its always "Just a little better than the last". they get so many sales because a ton of their fans don't care about other games as much. but that doesn't mean other people doing what Call of Duty does will get them anywhere, doing that instead of doing something new won't be easy to "Just do" [editline]31st August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE]Innovation is how HL2 was voted game of the decade. I don't get it, are you for making exactly the same game over and over again? or for changing things around and making it 'new' and original?[/QUOTE] lol guess why HL2 is game of the decade and guess why Avengers is in one of the highest grossing movie lists they did something NEW
[QUOTE=J!NX;42028700]you do realize that if everyone else did the same thing as Call of Duty, games would get insanely boring? [B]yeah, i do, and good thing they don't! some studios innovate and that's great. some don't innovate and that's great too[/B] They do the same series every year but Jesus Christ, its always "Just a little better than the last". they get so many sales because a ton of their fans don't care about other games as much. [B]no, they get so many sales because they make fun games with an expected amount of quality every time. i would know, i'm one of their fans (and believe it or not - I do care about other games as much!)[/B] but that doesn't mean other people doing what Call of Duty does will get them anywhere, doing that instead of doing something new won't be easy to "Just do" [B]good thing they don't! some studios innovate and that's great. some don't innovate and that's great too[/B] [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=J!NX;42028647] I said IW was a joke because they sounded like they were bullshitting, and thought that "wouldn't it be easier to just milk what you know?" thats what I've been saying this entire time, have you even read ANYTHING I said? you just seem to be trying to be smart and witty, you aren't even really saying anything [B]no you weren't, lol, you were going on about latest and greatest and innovation and shit and telling IW that "they could make a game about shitting off of a bridge onto cars for all I care" because hey, at least its different from call of duty right ??[/B] Innovation is how HL2 was voted game of the decade. [B]innovation was why hydrophobia tanked. instead of giving more counterexamples, think about why there's such varying results of the same attempt (hint: maybe innovation is a pretty small part in a game's reception)[/B] I don't get it, are you for making exactly the same game over and over again? or for changing things around and making it 'new' and original? [B]I'm all for not telling other people (namely developers) what to do with their time[/B] quality, production, and brand recognition is literally the only thing that seperates, say... call of duty from homefront and yet most people say Call of Duty is very average, but due to its attention and hype it sells well [B]or maybe it's because..... it's fun and well made[/B] [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]"no you weren't, lol, you were going on about latest and greatest and innovation and shit and telling IW that "they could make a game about shitting off of a bridge onto cars for all I care" because hey, at least its different from call of duty right ??"[/QUOTE] thats really not even the point [QUOTE]"innovation was why hydrophobia tanked. instead of giving more counterexamples, think about why there's such varying results of the same attempt (hint: maybe innovation is a pretty small part in a game's reception)"[/QUOTE] So many varying results of the same attempt lets look back at [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games[/url] most of those games are pretty original, rather than just be rehashes of another game. Even if they are based of something, they generally will stand out from it. [QUOTE]"'m all for not telling other people (namely developers) what to do with their time"[/QUOTE] That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying be original by doing something different and fun. I'm not saying "do non military shooters", I'm saying "Make a military shooter that's DIFFERENT". "or maybe it's because..... it's fun and well made" Call of Duty is horrible unbalanced and glitchy as shit, its not well made, but its pretty fun. But I can't feel for the latest ones and it feels like, yeah CoD is guaranteed fun, but it only goes some where every other CoD game. Dynamic maps is innovative, which makes that CoD stand out, but the CoD's that aren't BLOPs 2, or MW1 which actually does something DIFFERENT just seem like rehashes. They can live of rehashes out of what, to me, mostly feels like hype. I actually remember part of the fun of MW1 was messing with glitches. It doesn't have to be well made to be fun. But it helps, a boatload of a lot. I mainly play a large variation of games, from open world mainly, to indie, to horror survival, to puzzle, etc. [editline]31st August 2013[/editline] but, to clarify, of course yeah innovation is risky and you can end up like Rage and be unique but shit on yourself if you don't make it fun(at the same time these games aren't bad because of innovation, they're bad simply because they are bad), but you have a good chance of ending up like Halo or HL2, or Dishonored, or Hotline Miami. MW1 had an original feel to how you unlocked everything, but everything after that feels like an expansion except for every other CoD where they actually do something that strays from the others. At the same time, CoD can be made an exception, some games don't have to be unique from their prequels to sell well, but most have to be. CoD is unique as a military, but against other call of duties, other Call of Duties aren't as unique against the next version. If you don't take a risk in a gamble you'll never make any real money. That's how most games made well, they took a risk. at this point its late as SHIT so I'll just continue another time
Imagine the fan-base's response to that... These guys sent death threats when they nerfed the AN-94...
[QUOTE=Juniez;42028578]• . . . . . great. ok. glad we're on the same page now [editline]31st August 2013[/editline] but guess what happens if you try to take a fresh spin on a tried-and-true formula [t]http://www.newgamernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ti_1.jpg[/t] innovation correlates to jack shit financially quality, production, and brand recognition is literally the only thing that seperates, say... call of duty from homefront[/QUOTE] J!NX just stop you're running in circles, are you literally just trying to get the last laugh of the whole argument or something? You just throwing words out trying to sound omniscient of the games industry and innovation as a whole and it shouldn't work like that or you get your Dead Islands, and your NeverDeads. Pushing innovation because you're sick of what everyone else likes is stupid and you should stop posting
People don't seem to understand how the games industry works.
[QUOTE=J!NX;42025941]I explained why I said that in later posts and judging by your post history it sounds like you do that yourself come fight me irl EDIT: also why should I censer my thoughts? I'll say what is on my mind, because it feels right.[/QUOTE] Lol are you really making this a freedom of expression thing? Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should, and when you express your pointless opinions without substantiating them with anything meaningful or interesting you shouldn't be surprised when people call you out on it.
[QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;42024210]Buh wh- I !!?? How does this make any... fucking sense...[/QUOTE] Why am I dumb for expressing my great confusion? I'm genuinely curious. I would appreciate being told so I can avoid it in the future.
[QUOTE=dookster;42030289]People don't seem to understand how the games industry works.[/QUOTE] They can still criticize it for being the most shallow of the medium. It's hardly different from the backlash that occasionally hits the Adam Sandler films, "Boy Band" music, Twilight novels, and the "moe" genre. It's apparently an exception for games.
[QUOTE=Tooothpick;42029688]J!NX just stop you're running in circles, are you literally just trying to get the last laugh of the whole argument or something? You just throwing words out trying to sound omniscient of the games industry and innovation as a whole and it shouldn't work like that or you get your Dead Islands, and your NeverDeads. Pushing innovation because you're sick of what everyone else likes is stupid and you should stop posting[/QUOTE] all you're saying all the time is "Stop posting" you aren't even really say anything it's not just about innovation in games, its about trying something at least a little different. People who make games that are "Yet another Amnesia" or "yet another zombie game" make shitty games, some can be made exceptions. Guess why Doom, Half Life, Mirrors edge, BattleField, Dishonored, and less "Super famous examples", Rochard, Game Dev Tycoon, people love the shit out of them better than others because they don't be "Yet another shooter". Making another Mirrors edge is ok but I'm trying to say if everyone tried to do that, only the ones that actually stand out will be sold the best, I'm not saying it has to be as diverse as the list above either. Call of Duty is a terribly made series because they don't change nearly as much as other devs do to their games. They don't put as much work into it, its always only a gradual change, where they rush it a little and release it. It's very fun but you'll just have to get the next one once they release it. A lot of the sales with Call of Duty seems to be its mainstream community and marketing, to be honest. They don't care how terribly built the game is, if its fun enough and has enough action and explosions its a great game. Though, personally, I know how it'd fun as fuck despite that, and wish I could get into the series every now and then but I don't have money to spend. Though, CoD just being raw action and explosions and shootemup is also why its a good game. But I don't personally get how it's so hyped [QUOTE=blehblehbleh;42030460]Lol are you really making this a freedom of expression thing? Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should, and when you express your pointless opinions without substantiating them with anything meaningful or interesting you shouldn't be surprised when people call you out on it.[/QUOTE] most people seemed to have agree'd with "Infinity ward is a joke" so let me go into further details Infinity ward is a joke Infinity ward should spend more than 1 year on the game instead of rushing it. They should also stop shitting out overpriced DLC. should be more like literally any dev who actually takes time to make a game.
[QUOTE=J!NX;42031918] Infinity ward is a joke Infinity ward should spend more than 1 year on the game instead of rushing it. They should also stop shitting out overpriced DLC. should be more like literally any dev who actually takes time to make a game.[/QUOTE] would it help you sleep at night if they spent another 6 months making their games because that's never going to happen. it sells, so they do it.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42034550]would it help you sleep at night if they spent another 6 months making their games because that's never going to happen. it sells, so they do it.[/QUOTE] it's not like those artists, programmers, and other creatives aren't ever burnt out by such practices of such short dev times. nope, this is a perfect practice of the modern gaming industry and shows just how strong it is, and just how much it values the people making those games. oh sorry that sarcasm may be a bit thin.
[QUOTE=Cone;42024544]people care as much about CoD as you do about Half Life once you let that sink in what he's saying makes a whole lot more sense really[/QUOTE] its truly saddening to my very soul now that i have fully absorbed this statement
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42034550]would it help you sleep at night if they spent another 6 months making their games because that's never going to happen. it sells, so they do it.[/QUOTE] it would sell far, far better than it does now if they didn't rush it and poop it out. Instead of churning it out once a year, take at LEAST 2 or 3 years actually working on something new. Every next CoD is an expansion of the last, that's it, but every other isn't so much an expansion. If they actually worked on it they would make significantly more money. They would be able to stop for a day and think "What can I do to make this game better". the fucked up part of call of duty is its a game that is for mature audiences and is sold to 13 year olds.
[QUOTE=J!NX;42034739]it would sell far, far better than it does now if they didn't rush it and poop it out. Instead of churning it out once a year, take at LEAST 2 or 3 years actually working on something new. Every next CoD is an expansion of the last, that's it, but every other isn't so much an expansion. If they actually worked on it they would make significantly more money. They would be able to stop for a day and think "What can I do to make this game better". the fucked up part of call of duty is its a game that is for mature audiences and is sold to 13 year olds.[/QUOTE] the average age of gamers today is 35. I know it's fun to believe only children buy it, but that's not true.
[QUOTE=J!NX;42034739]it would sell far, far better than it does now if they didn't rush it and poop it out. Instead of churning it out once a year, take at LEAST 2 or 3 years actually working on something new. Every next CoD is an expansion of the last, that's it, but every other isn't so much an expansion. If they actually worked on it they would make significantly more money. They would be able to stop for a day and think "What can I do to make this game better". the fucked up part of call of duty is its a game that is for mature audiences and is sold to 13 year olds.[/QUOTE] if they put an extra 6 months or so in a new call of duty game, the mechanics would be the same, the graphics would be relatively similar, and the story would remain unchanged. millions of people already buy call of duty games that were made in a ~1 year development cycle, why spend 50% more time to achieve the same result?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42034767]the average age of gamers today is 35. I know it's fun to believe only children buy it, but that's not true.[/QUOTE] fair enough, but my brain [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF822KJ5KEA"]keeps [/URL]trying to [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad8WO5ZIwj4"]convince [/URL]me otherwise [QUOTE=milkandcooki;42034782]if they put an extra 6 months or so in a new call of duty game, the mechanics would be the same, the graphics would be relatively similar, and the story would remain unchanged. millions of people already buy call of duty games that were made in a ~1 year development cycle, why spend 50% more time to achieve the same result?[/QUOTE] Why the hell does everyone think that working on something longer doesn't do anything to a game or makest he game worse some games take 8 years to make, those exact games would have been MASSIVELY different if it only too 6, or even 3 or 2 years to make. extra time lets you improve mechanics and all that
[QUOTE=J!NX;42034785]fair enough, but my brain [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF822KJ5KEA"]keeps [/URL]trying to [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad8WO5ZIwj4"]convince [/URL]me otherwise[/QUOTE] how does cheesy marketing video = 13 year old playerbase? just because you don't like it and think it's dumb doesn't mean that others think the same.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42034797]how does cheesy marketing video = 13 year old playerbase? just because you don't like it and think it's dumb doesn't mean that others think the same.[/QUOTE] because it looks like only a 13 year old would really get into that level of terrible marketing. What kind of 20 year old acts like that :v: Elite was 60$-70$, who else but a kid that doesn't know better using his parent's card would by something as stupid and pointless as that? it doesn't actually bring ANY real useful features to you at all [QUOTE] RecklessGamer01 1 week ago Join my clan Legendary Impact on XBOX ELITE if you guys want• to join message• me my username is ReCklesSGaMer01 NecoStudios 4 months ago Blackops 2 System PS3 Join us Fx_SnipZ_Souls Call of Duty• Elite! Mario Ferreira 5 months ago Call Of Duty Is About KICK MORE• ASS!!! [/QUOTE] many of the comments seem like 12 year olds its like, yeah, you can choose to buy it, whatever, your money, if you like getting fucked out of money [editline]31st August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;42034785] Why the hell does everyone think that working on something longer doesn't do anything to a game or makest he game worse some games take 8 years to make, those exact games would have been MASSIVELY different if it only too 6, or even 3 or 2 years to make. extra time lets you improve mechanics and all that[/QUOTE] and that [editline]31st August 2013[/editline] if you actually watched the video you'd see how 13 year old tier it is
[QUOTE=J!NX;42034843]because it looks like only a 13 year old would really get into that level of terrible marketing. What kind of 20 year old acts like that :v: Elite was 60$-70$, who else but a kid that doesn't know better using his parent's card would by something as stupid and pointless as that? it doesn't actually bring ANY real useful features to you at all[/QUOTE] your entire argument is literally "this is stupid and i don't like it." you won't spend 60 bucks on elite. neither will i. does that mean somebody who will is an idiot? no. [editline]31st August 2013[/editline] also hand picking random ass comments on facebook and youtube doesn't amount to anything, because i could easily find stupid comments from valve fans or other "TRUE" gamers.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42034797]how does cheesy marketing video = 13 year old playerbase? just because you don't like it and think it's dumb doesn't mean that others think the same.[/QUOTE] This is anecdotal, but the vast majority of customers I sell Call of Duty to are between the ages of 7 and 15. That's not to say that's all who plays it, far from it, but it is a substantial part of the player base.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42034937]your entire argument is literally "this is stupid and i don't like it." you won't spend 60 bucks on elite. neither will i. does that mean somebody who will is an idiot? no.[/QUOTE] cool I'll further continue it by just going ahead and simplifying it wasting money on Elite is literally retarded. Even if you have "Tons of money to blow". or "Money from your parents to blow". I grew up on games where people made their own fucking maps, and you didn't need some "fancy tool" to make an "Official clan" its extremely obvious by simply watching the video they are marketing to 13 year olds. You're argument is over simplifying the matter and you STILL didn't even reply to me why do you seem to think working on it longer magically does nothing? [QUOTE=milkandcooki;42034937]also hand picking random ass comments on facebook and youtube doesn't amount to anything, because i could easily find stupid comments from valve fans or other "TRUE" gamers.[/QUOTE] while this is true, I honestly don't regret saying most of the fanbase and marketing is tiered towards a younger audience than it should be. I'm not saying most are 13 year olds, but way too many certainly are. They market a game like that to a way younger audience than it should be, and that's fucked up. and I still hold to the fact they have SHIT DLC and should actually spend more time hand crafting it, rather than spewing. also, no one here is a "TRUE" gamer, I'm slightly above casual and spend my time and money on a diverse category of games, not just competitive shootemups.
[QUOTE=J!NX;42034959]while this is true, I honestly don't regret saying most of the fanbase and marketing is tiered towards a younger audience than it should be. I'm not saying most are 13 year olds, but way too many certainly are. They market a game like that to a way younger audience than it should be, and that's fucked up. [/QUOTE] On that subject, remember this? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKkPFDEiC6Q[/media] Now THAT was some messed up marketing. The Black Ops 2 'Surprise' trailer also struck me as marketing below the rating of the game, though I enjoyed the trailer a lot. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wIZp_E2CxQ[/media]
they should work on it longer, or they should work on it harder, or they should work on games smarter. right now being a game designer, game developer, programmer, artist, really isn't a great profession. studios like infinity ward, or other first party developers for producers who make a lot of games today just run through people and burn out people fresh out of schools or what not. there is a problem with games like CoD, and it's that it's going to stick to that yearly release cycle, it's going to stick to cramped time lines that always depend on either crunch time being constant or reusing assets left and right and just having to update them constantly neither are really good solutions but that's what games like CoD and producers and devs like Infinity Ward do. Infinity ward has almost no original staff. It isn't the same company that it started as. [editline]31st August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=JeanLuc761;42035108]On that subject, remember this? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKkPFDEiC6Q[/media] Now THAT was some messed up marketing. The Black Ops 2 'Surprise' trailer also struck me as marketing below the rating of the game, though I enjoyed the trailer a lot. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wIZp_E2CxQ[/media][/QUOTE] That dead space trailer wasn't for kids. People in their 20's have mothers too(generally) and get the humor of that. The voice over on that however is strictly shit.
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