China on course to have the world's largest Christian congregation in 15 years - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;44590761]Can you imagine how much shit the US would flip if there was a Chinese pope?[/QUOTE] Very little? Most of the US is protestant

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44590827]Very little? Most of the US is protestant[/QUOTE] Ya, but 20% is a fucking huge percentage. Plus, it's like a UNITED 20%. Unlike protestants that may come in different flavours. EDIT: Come Explosions, bring it on

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;44590729]Lol, just as the religious ignorant guy can say "Deus Vult! Take this you heathen!" the atheist can say "Well, since there is no god....we're our own maker...I am the most powerful in this situation...and I don't receive any punishment for doing this...."[/quote] 1. It doesn't take being religiously ignorant to go out and kill the heathens. Do you think that the inquisitors just didn't read the bible or something? They did, and many of the moderate Christians of today are the ones who haven't. All the progress and tolerance that religion has been made has been at the expense of doctrine, not because people have somehow figured out the true meaning behind the words. 2. How is there "no punishment" for doing things as an atheist. This whole "if there's no heaven or hell, then I'll just go rape and murder people!" argument is completely ridiculous and wrong. There are clear punishments for committing heinous acts like those: you go to jail or get killed yourself. If you really need a carrot and stick type of morality in order to behave then you have serious empathy issues. [quote]And just as the religious ignorant guy can say "It's all cool, we're all sons of God" the atheist can say "It's all cool, we're all humans". There is a difference between the last two? well, not in my opinion. One is putting an extreme value on something via something that hasn't been proved to exist and the other guy is just placing humans above all (see peter singer for more info regarding this last one)[/QUOTE] What? How does that work? Certain religions give explicit consent and sometimes commands to kill/conquer/etc. in the name of some god. How is "being human" an excuse for any wrongdoing? A complete non sequitur.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44590827]Very little? Most of the US is protestant[/QUOTE] But the pope would be a DIRTY COMMIE then. The 'Nam vets would flip shit, assuming they're not all dead by then.

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;44590854]Ya, but 20% is a fucking huge percentage. Plus, it's like a UNITED 20%. Unlike protestants that may come in different flavours. EDIT: Come Explosions, bring it on[/QUOTE] Most American Catholics are either giving not a single shit about the Pope, or are actually atheists. Media would try to spin it into a shit storm, surely.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;44590887]The 'Nam vets would flip shit, assuming they're not all dead by then.[/QUOTE] What

[QUOTE]What? How does that work? Certain religions give explicit consent and sometimes commands to kill/conquer/etc. in the name of some god. How is "being human" an excuse for any wrongdoing? A complete non sequitur. [/QUOTE] Did you understood what I said? The first two were justifying doing "evil" and the last two "good". [QUOTE]There are clear punishments for committing heinous acts like those: you go to jail or get killed yourself. If you really need a carrot and stick type of morality in order to behave then you have serious empathy issues.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, totally. Mao went to a fucking jail. Lenin too. Dude, I wasn't referring to punishment in the Pascal sense. FFS, really? I was refering punishment as in a balance of cons and pros. [QUOTE]If you really need a carrot and stick type of morality in order to behave then you have serious empathy issues.[/QUOTE] Well, unfortunately, it seems that being an atheist doesn't make one unable to have serious empathy issues.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;44590887]But the pope would be a DIRTY COMMIE then. The 'Nam vets would flip shit, assuming they're not all dead by then.[/QUOTE] you seem to have a very strange view of america

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;44590924]Did you understood what I said? The first two were justifying doing "evil" and the last two "good".[/QUOTE] No, I didn't understand that. Either way, both statements can be used to justify either good deeds or wrongdoing. [quote]Oh yeah, totally. Mao went to a fucking jail. Lenin too. Dude, I wasn't referring to punishment in the Pascal sense. FFS, really? I was refering punishment as in a balance of cons and pros.[/quote] The important thing about Mao, Lenin, Hitler, etc is that their crimes STOP. Not that they face some sort of punishment. Why does that even matter at all? Who cares what happens to the bad guy as long as he stops doing bad things. Sorry, I guess I really didn't understand your post and I was responding to various people in this thread rather than specifically to you. [quote]Well, unfortunately, it seems that being an atheist doesn't make one unable to have serious empathy issues.[/quote] I agree. That doesn't mean that people have to get their morality from this idea of punishment vs reward.

[QUOTE]The important thing about Mao, Lenin, Hitler, etc is that their crimes STOP. Not that they face some sort of punishment. Why does that even matter at all? Who cares what happens to the bad guy as long as he stops doing bad things. Sorry, I guess I really didn't understand your post and I was responding to various people in this thread rather than specifically to you.[/QUOTE] No problem, I guess somehow me thinking in Spanish then in English makes for some misunderstandings. But their crimes happened, when they shouldn't be happening (in our view). If for the bad guy to stop doing bad things he has to die, we're on some huge deep shit. [QUOTE]I agree. That doesn't mean that people have to get their morality from this idea of punishment vs reward. [/QUOTE] Most people do. When you look at business, politics, important stuff, they only value things on a "I get this vs I lose this". It's true, some people behave on ideals turning down juicy offers for a perceived idea/idea of greater good. But the majority and that's why we are where we are today, behaves on that reward system. Whenever that guy fucks on mates because he can get some extra bucks due to a promotion, that politician deals with corporates, those policemen make deals with the narcos, we're having that "carrot stick" problem.

[QUOTE=toaster468;44588820][URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Early_life[/URL] He wasn't kicked out for his views. And he joined a revolutionary group after he saw that there was a stronger side in the fight for power within the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party (The Bolsheviks had the most power and eventually beat the Mensheviks). So the point could be made that he joined the stronger side and not necessarily the side that he agreed with. EDIT: It is questionable whether his wife committed suicide.[/QUOTE] The Bolsheviks didn't have the most power. The Mensheviks had more broad support and were actively involved in politics in Russia. The Bolsheviks either refused to stand for election to the Duma, or all lived abroad. And Stalin was still an atheist. I'm not sure in what way he was a believer, because even if he only saw religion as a path to power, that still says he did not treat it or the concept of god seriously. As for communism, Stalin is still representative of a Communist. A particular brand of communism, but he was certainly still a communist through and through.

You know what happens when communists become religious ? They become Republicans. Not a joke, happened in my country. It is horrible.

Considering that Chinese culture is primary Buddhist and Taoist, I don't really see Christian fundamentalism becoming a big problem. This is kinda cool actually.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;44591658]You know what happens when communists become religious ? They become Republicans. Not a joke, happened in my country. It is horrible.[/QUOTE] Yeah that tends to happen with or without religious conversion. When people get sick of communism they start listening to whatever politician hates communism the most.

[quote]"If everyone in China believed in Jesus then we would have no more need for police stations. There would be no more bad people and therefore no more crime," she added.[/quote] Hi. I live in the 7th most violent city in the world and pretty much everyone here is christian. Bye.

I don't remember this decade being the one where everybody went batshit crazy over Christianity. We're a good religion, people.

I just hope that no real issues come of this. Maybe it can be a guiding light that keeps people happy during dark times. They don't have to adhere to the faith or ignore it completely, if it brings people together and lets them find a calm (ie: loss of a loved one), then why try to push it down?

[quote]"If everyone in China believed in Jesus then we would have no more need for police stations. There would be no more bad people and therefore no more crime," she added.[/quote] yup it's china things i have been told by chinese people: - masturbation causes kidney failure and 'loss of qi' - pregnant women should drink a cup of chicken oil every day, and not shower for a month after giving birth - putting dirty clothes in washing machines is bad, it will make the machine dirty - the chinese and jews are the only races that have black hair - "i kinda like hitler, he was very smart" i'll add this to the list

you dont understand. all christians are good. its only filthy atheists that do crime [editline]20th April 2014[/editline] nobody in the refugee camp or oify is christian

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44593712]I just hope that no real issues come of this. Maybe it can be a guiding light that keeps people happy during dark times. They don't have to adhere to the faith or ignore it completely, if it brings people together and lets them find a calm (ie: loss of a loved one), then why try to push it down?[/QUOTE] Well [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion"]Let's say that Chinese weird stuff+Christianity is a bad combo. A very bad one.[/URL]

I'm glad china is becoming christian; if nothing more it shows they are slowly growing on human rights of freedom of religion.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44590885]1. It doesn't take being religiously ignorant to go out and kill the heathens. Do you think that the inquisitors just didn't read the bible or something? They did, and many of the moderate Christians of today are the ones who haven't. All the progress and tolerance that religion has been made has been at the expense of doctrine, not because people have somehow figured out the true meaning behind the words.[/QUOTE] Only someone with no knowledge of Christian history would make this comment. The atrocities committed in the name of Christianity during the middle ages were obviously for political benefit. The doctrines of the modern church are MUCH closer to the doctrines of the early fathers (Ignatius, Clement, Justin Martyr, Augustine of Hippo, etc.) than those of the middle ages. [QUOTE]2. How is there "no punishment" for doing things as an atheist. This whole "if there's no heaven or hell, then I'll just go rape and murder people!" argument is completely ridiculous and wrong. There are clear punishments for committing heinous acts like those: you go to jail or get killed yourself. If you really need a carrot and stick type of morality in order to behave then you have serious empathy issues.[/QUOTE] The question then isn't, "What's right and what's wrong?" The question is: "Will I get caught?" If the answer to that question is no, then all consequences go out the window. Logic doesn't lead to empathy. It seems you want to depend on emotion, which is irrational by nature (not based on logical decision making). If so, then there's no true argument against anyone who uses their emotion of hate, as opposed to empathy, to fuel their actions. One is not inherently "better" than the other.

[QUOTE=MatheusMCardoso;44593455]Hi. I live in the 7th most violent city in the world and pretty much everyone here is christian. Bye.[/QUOTE] yup, also 1 million people were killed from 1980 to 2011 on brazil, and we're like 85%+ christian :v: , so peaceful [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/brazil-most-violent-country-murders_n_3618704.html[/url]

[QUOTE=sgman91;44594301]The question then isn't, "What's right and what's wrong?" The question is: "Will I get caught?" If the answer to that question is no, then all consequences go out the window. Logic doesn't lead to empathy. It seems you want to depend on emotion, which is irrational by nature (not based on logical decision making). If so, then there's no true argument against anyone who uses their emotion of hate, as opposed to empathy, to fuel their actions. One is not inherently "better" than the other.[/QUOTE] If you would be raping and murdering without the threat of punishment, then by all means please continue believing. If you're so messed up that you need some simplistic punishment vs reward system to stay in line, then I hope you stick with it. Luckily, the majority of the world doesn't operate on that system.

[QUOTE]If you would be raping and murdering without the threat of punishment, then by all means please continue believing. If you're so messed up that you need some simplistic punishment vs reward system to stay in line, then I hope you stick with it. Luckily, the majority of the world doesn't operate on that system. [/QUOTE] As I have said before....[I]seems[/I] not to operate on that system. Luckily for us, there is this little invention, called state, that stops such things from happening. [QUOTE]Logic doesn't lead to empathy. It seems you want to depend on emotion, which is irrational by nature (not based on logical decision making). If so, then there's no true argument against anyone who uses their emotion of hate, as opposed to empathy, to fuel their actions. One is not inherently "better" than the other. [/QUOTE] This x100000 But people won't understand or accept it, no matter how well presented this argument is. When I debated with some guys over why it was bad for the chinese to sell some turtles as toys, I told them "But, if you look at it from a utilitarian point of view, this isn't "wrong"" And they all went "Omg dude, don't you feel bad for the little turtle?" and after telling them what you have said here they went "OMG, you're like such a fucking bothersome dense nazi" [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1317768&page=3[/url]

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;44597330]Luckily for us, there is this little invention, called state, that stops such things from happening.[/QUOTE] So if there was no state you would just start murdering people? I think you don't realize that (sane) people have innate morals which prevent us from doing bad things. Even when humans were hunter gatherers we weren't murdering/stealing on a daily basis just because we could.

Honestly the only christian Canadians I've met are Chinese :v: All the white people out here are atheists, and white christians seem to huddle in their own social communities or something because I rarely come into contact with them.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44596502]I bet it's nice thinking "I can't do that or I will go to eternal damnation for the rest of existence which is forever!" anytime you think about bad things. What a great religion that totally isn't ran by fear to have sway over the masses.[/QUOTE] That's not at all the central message of Christianity though, in fact that's one of the ideas that the Church has been fighting since the conception of the religion. Christianity is not about being good so that you don't go to hell, one of the main driving points is that it's to late for that, we all simply default to damnation regardless of how good we may act. This is displayed by the impossible standards that we are held to by divine law. Christianity however offers an alternative to doing the impossible, showing that the Christ atoned for our imperfection out of his own will to save us. That is what Christianity is all about, recognizing your own inherit corruption and looking towards the perfection of God and his payment of our penalties for salvation. The popular idea that Christianity is a religion of fear used to control people is grossly inaccurate to what the doctrine actually says and is in part a result of its unfortunate misuse.

[QUOTE=slayer64;44588088]Considering Russia has a massive irreligious population, that's not a good example. [B]Besides, for 70 years, Russia was officially atheist and violently persecuted religious people. [/B]So I could make the argument that "Atheism is bad when: Russia, etc." and it would be somewhat more accurate. Really, China's pretty shitty in terms of human rights, so more social justice-type religion can only make things better.[/QUOTE] Wrong. While the USSR was officially atheist as part of communist ideology, it still had freedom of religion and tolerated Islam and Orthodox Christianity, rather than supporting a given religion. [QUOTE]Only someone with no knowledge of Christian history would make this comment. The atrocities committed in the name of Christianity during the middle ages were obviously for political benefit.[/QUOTE] You can't say that as a rule. There's vast evidence that priests and people of various rank and status from Christian Rome to the Early-Modern Era who committed atrocities, (Salem Witch Trials, the Inquisition, medieval Jewish pogroms) that were committed out of religious fanaticism.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44597385]Are you actually claiming without punishment everyone would just go batshit crazy and kill everyone?[/QUOTE] 4 thousands years ago yes. If you look at how tribal warfare was made, everyone from babies to elders were killed. [B][I][U]Today[/U][/I][/B], [B][I][U]no[/U][/I][/B], that's unlikely, [I]because people have been already educated and raised in such a way that their worldview can't (some, at least) exclude the happiness of others from their aims.[/I] If you asked me "Are you actually claming that if today, there was no state and only loose groups, newborn people wouldn't give a fuck about killing other people?" Then hell fuck yeah. Because it has already happened. And you aren't understanding the con vs pro balance. Those who COULD kill, get a BENEFIT and go UNHARMED/PUNISHED would do it. Not EVERYONE would do it, including me, because we, as I have already said, have been raised in such a way. EDIT: Hell, I don't know, how about if we ask the fucking serbians, croats, bosnians and whoever the fuck lived in Yugoslavia what happened when it fell down? [QUOTE]Even when humans were hunter gatherers we weren't murdering/stealing on a daily basis just because we could.[/QUOTE] Lol, they weren't murdering people from their own group. Whenever they had to chance to kill a member from another group, they did it. [QUOTE]Wrong. While the USSR was officially atheist as part of communist ideology, it still had freedom of religion and tolerated Islam and Orthodox Christianity, rather than supporting a given religion. [/QUOTE] Well, we could look at the DDR that actually, while it didn't outright ban Churchs, persecuted and tried to shut up religious people. There was this guy that burned himself to protest.