6 Americans killed in one day in Afghanistan - Polidicks

[QUOTE=C47;37245358] It was about the US being godly angels like Mr. Someone stated, which he then retracted. Hence the need to point out the terrorist activities of Israel, indiscriminate bombing of NATO etc. Im not supporting evil. Im not supporting any form of innocent civilian killing whether its the US/Taliban/Massoud/whoever. Im against it. Just fyi :P[/QUOTE] You're looking for evils on both sides and supporting the other because "someone needs to defend it". And Mr. Someguy never went on preaching that the US are godly angels you stupid fuck, he just listed how we seperate ourselves from them. We don't do barbaric or fucked up things, but you have to understand in times of war any nation will do something fucked up in some way, shape or form. It's unavoidable. If it could be avoided I think we'd be able to avoid war all around too.

[QUOTE=C47;37245440]I thought you left. Welcome back, I see you still have nothing new to contribute :v:[/QUOTE] I came to check how much stupid you were still blithering and saw that you had pretty much crossed the line from uninformed idiot to condescending prick.

[QUOTE=prooboo;37245200]You know what the sane parts of the world do to develop democracy? They have their own fucking revolution and then write a constitution.[/QUOTE] Apparently that doesnt work well the bastions of Democracy (America) either. Eg, Hamas. (wasnt a revolution to be precise, but you know what I mean)

[QUOTE=C47;37245392]You can say whatever you want like the other two monkeys who have been posting crap. But its not going to matter, your credibility is hardly anything given your inability to think through.[/QUOTE] hahahahaha. [QUOTE=C47;37245392]I didnt de-rail it, just pointing out counter arguments to common media propaganda, which was posted in this thread.[/QUOTE] You wonder why I had a hard time trying to understand your holocaust denying, the wars are for oil, I hate Israel rhetoric when you're the dumbass saying this shit to me?

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245493] You wonder why I had a hard time trying to understand your holocaust denying, the wars are for oil, I hate Israel rhetoric when you're the dumbass saying this shit to me?[/QUOTE] Never denied the holocaust, dont try to put me in the category of retard Ahmedinajadsdasd I just said idiots like you believe bigots and let things like the holocaust happen. Jeez, once again point proven that you cant comprehend posts. But Ill give you a +1 point for figuring out the oil part.

[QUOTE=C47;37245563]Never denied the holocaust, dont try to put me in the category of retard Ahmedinajadsdasd[/QUOTE] But you like talking about Israel so I think you have one other conversation starter. [QUOTE=C47;37245563]I just said idiots like you believe bigots and let things like the holocaust happen.[/quote] Because I understand the world is fucked and some things are just fucking unavoidable, but also don't support every fucking side of something for the sheer fuck of it. You're also using blanket statements to assert things like I'm a bigot. You have no proof but you like to spurt it out as if it were true like half the fucking things you've said in here. [QUOTE=C47;37245563]Jeez, once again point proven that you cant comprehend posts. But Ill give you a +1 point for figuring out the oil part.[/quote] I can't comprehend stupid posts posted by stupid people so that means I'm stupid right?

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245465]And Mr. Someguy never went on preaching that the US are godly angels you stupid fuck, he just listed how we seperate ourselves from them. We don't do barbaric or fucked up things, but you have to understand in times of war any nation will do something fucked up in some way, shape or form. [/QUOTE] He clearly said they do not target civilians or use them for ulterior motives (well the second wasn't clearly implied). And then I showed the pathetic, digusting, barbaric, inhumane attitude which believes its ok to bomb civilian infrastructure at the time of war. So, even if I assume the Taliban do the same, at most, it puts the US on the other side of the coin.

[QUOTE=C47;37245644]He clearly said they do not target civilians or use them for ulterior motives (well the second wasn't clearly implied). And then I showed the pathetic, digusting, barbaric, inhumane attitude which believes its ok to bomb civilian infrastructure at the time of war. So, even if I assume the Taliban do the same, at most, it puts the US on the other side of the coin.[/QUOTE] Oh you. Where bombing infrastructure critical to civilian AND military operation totally warrants supporting people who take lone individuals and decapitate them? You know the difference between the two? One can be put back together because it is a creation of man, whereas the head will fall off and have no purpose, as the individual is dead.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245610]But you like talking about Israel so I think you have one other conversation starter.[/QUOTE] So Im talking about Israel and it automatically means im like Ahmedinajad and a holocaust denier? Great logic :v: [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245610]You're also using blanket statements to assert things like I'm a bigot. [/QUOTE] The way you post clearly shows your a bigot or naive. [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245610]I can't comprehend stupid posts posted by stupid people so that means I'm stupid right?[/QUOTE] No no, your stupid or rather slow, because your in a hyper state right now and just want to post for idk, ratings? lol. Try to make yourself useful, think, post. If you come up with "Duuuhh I dont know what you mean" to something as obvious in a post where I talk about the attitudes of people towards religion and consequence, then im not really obliged to take you seriously. [editline]15th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245684] Where bombing infrastructure critical to civilian AND military operation[/QUOTE] Let me stop you there daisy. The sources I pointed out, clearly mentioned that civilian buildings with no relation or effect to the military were bombed. It also mentioned that during war, everything was a target automatically, civilian or non-civilian. Same principle used over at Serbia, same shit at Iraq during the first gulf war. [quote][B]NATO planned from the start to hit civilian targets was made clear to me a few days before the attacks began by an employee of a U.S. intelligence organization who said that the CIA had been charged with preparing lists of Yugoslav economic assets and that, "basically, everything in the country is a target unless it's taken off the list.[/B]" This was nothing new: as Michael Walzer notes,[B] in the Gulf War in 1990, "the coalition decided (or the U. S. commanders decided) that the economic infrastructure of Iraqi society -- all of it -- was a legitimate military target,[/B] and that while similar strategic targeting had been common in World War II, [B]what was new was the attempt to deprive the Iraqi population of clean water[/B].[/quote] [quote]On June 7, [B]NATO planes again bombed the oil refineries in Novi Sad and Pancevo, [U]both centers of opposition to Milosevic[/U][/B].[/quote] Are you on weed? Please read my posts before answering them.

[QUOTE=C47;37245694]So Im talking about Israel and it automatically means im like Ahmedinajad and a holocaust denier? Great logic :v:[/QUOTE] I got you were a holocaust denier because you brought it up as a talking point, and at how fucking retardedly you worded it. [QUOTE=C47;37245694]The way you post clearly shows your a bigot or naive. [/QUOTE] Practice what you preach :v: [QUOTE=C47;37245694]No no, your stupid or rather slow, because your in a hyper state right now and just want to post for idk, ratings? lol. [/QUOTE] I'm posting because you're a stupid fucking idiot trying to talk about my country, it's agenda, and how it conducts itself like you are the god of all men and know all. [QUOTE=C47;37245694]Try to make yourself useful, think, post.[/QUOTE] What do you think I'm doing. [QUOTE=C47;37245694]If you come up with "Duuuhh I dont know what you mean" to something as obvious in a post where I talk about the attitudes of people towards religion and consequence, then im not really obliged to take you seriously.[/QUOTE] See sir, now I understand you. This is a [b]serious fucking problem when your main argument point is drawn out and finally understood when you post previously saying shit that I myself consider stupid, uneducated, drawn out rantings of a person trying to show links between things.[/b] [editline]14th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=C47;37245694]Let me stop you there daisy. The sources I pointed out, clearly mentioned that civilian buildings with no relation or effect to the military were bombed. It also mentioned that during war, everything was a target automatically, civilian or non-civilian. Same principle used over at Serbia, same shit at Iraq during the first gulf war. [/quote] The source you pointed out was in Serbia, and it was by NATO forces. You haven't proved this was a method of action in Iraq or Afghanistan other then saying it and showing it happened in Serbia, and use quotes on Iraq with out source link to help verify. You never heard of accidents? Also what does weed have to do with anything?

Taliban Apologist. [b]Fucking hilarious[/b]

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245742]I got you were a holocaust denier because you brought it up as a talking point[/QUOTE] And you had no idea what I was referring to when I brought it up as a point. Thank you for proving my case that you dont think things through. [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245742]Practice what you preach :v:[/QUOTE] mm, im not the one commiting logical fallcies here. i mean yeah i mentioned that americans are bad at history, but took it back. it seems you still didnt notice that. [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245742]What do you think I'm doing.[/QUOTE] Not trying hard enough. [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245742]See sir, now I understand you. This is a [B]serious fucking problem when your main argument point is drawn out and finally understood when you post previously saying shit that I myself consider stupid, uneducated, drawn out rantings of a person trying to show links between things.[/B][/QUOTE] Wouldnt call it a main argument, but whatever you want to focus at :v: Did prove yourself slow, uneducated though. [editline]15th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;37245742] You never heard of accidents? [/QUOTE] Pretty sure it doesnt qualify as accidents when the intent is revealed. [QUOTE=CabooseRvB;37245788]Taliban Apologist. [B]Fucking hilarious[/B][/QUOTE] Nah, what they do wrong is wrong, Ill admit to that, I aint defending them, but unlike most of you all who have just been brainwashed with propaganda after 9/11, I'd like to point out a few things in their favor for the sake of balanced views. Its a matter of who has a broader perspective of things. And ofcourse who can take in replies without going into freak post mode :D

There are so many arguments that I can keep up but fuck man are you dense as fuck and proud of it.

I bet he thinks Jews control the media.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;37245884]I bet he thinks Jews control the media.[/QUOTE] I love how this guy couldn't stay on topic as to why Afghanistan is fucked up and decided to drag us on a ride about the realities of war in general while also injecting his biases towards the United States, Israel, and the wars that the US is involved in.

Whatever guys. Free work time is up and I cant be bothered to post anymore. My general idea was that there is more to the world than what CNN and BBC feeds you with. It doesnt hurt to do some investigative journalism on your part or to speak with people with different cultural/religious background about such things. back to Diablo III, after LMAO pix ;p

[QUOTE=C47;37245950]Whatever guys. Free work time is up and I cant be bothered to post anymore. [/QUOTE] This doesn't go [QUOTE=C47;37245950]back to Diablo III, after LMAO pix ;p[/QUOTE] with this. [QUOTE=C47;37245950]My general idea was that there is more to the world than what CNN and BBC feeds you with. It doesnt hurt to do some investigative journalism on your part or to speak with people with different cultural/religious background about such things.[/QUOTE] Wow you actually made a salient point. Now can you actually fucking do it and stop pulling shit from your ass to try and make arguments different from what was originally being discussed?

hmm i wonder if all that opium is related to the occupation [editline]15th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=CabooseRvB;37245884]I bet he thinks Jews control the media.[/QUOTE] but they do

[QUOTE=Hayburner;37246346]but they do[/QUOTE] I wish Jon Stewart controlled the media. It would be so much better than it is now anyways.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;37198060]None. Like I said, we have a very defined ROE. We don't shoot civilians on purpose.[/QUOTE] You've heard of people in the military admitting we just declare anyone in the general area where actual combatants are as "enemy combatants" without actually knowing if they are or not, right? And you're forgetting many of the overpowered weapons we use that completely level buildings, and they are not always evacuated or even given a chance to evacuate. In fact it seems like it would be rare we would even be able to give them a chance to evacuate or anything of the sort. There are organizations in other countries (set up by civilians in these countries we invade) where their entire job is to investigate our military operations, their purpose is to estimate how many ACTUAL civilian deaths there are vs. how many we say there our because our military is given the authority to lie to cover up civilian deaths. (That's why wikileaks releasing the video of that journalist being killed was so significant, and the US reacted so aggressively) [editline]15th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=prooboo;37245200]What right does a country with over a quarter of its population not voting have to teach other countries about democracy using huge fucking tanks and guys with guns and body armor? You know what the sane parts of the world do to develop democracy? They have their own fucking revolution and then write a constitution.[/QUOTE]All we really had to do was let them industrialize on their own, but we kind of fucked that up and don't even know what the full consequences of us involving ourselves will have yet.

[QUOTE=Ybbats;37246518]You've heard of people in the military admitting we just declare anyone in the general area where actual combatants are as "enemy combatants" without actually knowing if they are or not, right? And you're forgetting many of the overpowered weapons we use that completely level buildings, and they are not always evacuated or even given a chance to evacuate. In fact it seems like it would be rare we would even be able to give them a chance to evacuate or anything of the sort. There are organizations in other countries (set up by civilians in these countries we invade) where their entire job is to investigate our military operations, their purpose is to estimate how many ACTUAL civilian deaths there are vs. how many we say there our because our military is given the authority to lie to cover up civilian deaths. (That's why wikileaks releasing the video of that journalist being killed was so significant, and the US reacted so aggressively)[/QUOTE] Don't try to feed us that bullshit. You are aware that SKEEA [I]is[/I] active military, right? You can't really argue ROE policy with someone who actually has to follow the ROE.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;37246908]Don't try to feed us that bullshit. You are aware that SKEEA [I]is[/I] active military, right? You can't really argue ROE policy with someone who actually has to follow the ROE.[/QUOTE] Don't worry about it Mr.Someguy, he obviously knows much more about the ROE and Geneva Convention provisions than us. I mean not like it's our job or anything, what do we know? Honestly.

[QUOTE=C47;37244785]Reply in bold.[/QUOTE] They didn't have a trial system, not at all. It was all sharia law, there was nothing for defendants to dispute. Maybe in the urban centers of Kandahar and Kabul they had some vague mock trial system set up, with the judge, defense, and prosecution all Taliban. [QUOTE]The world first learned of the harshness of the Taliban’s sharia system when a secret video was smuggled out of the country in 1999 showing a woman dragged before 30,000 people at a soccer match and shot in the head for adultery.[/QUOTE] She sure didn't get a trial [QUOTE=Amnesty International] children were being forced to testify against their parents for moral crimes, and then made to witness their executions.[/QUOTE] Yay, Taliban justice! [QUOTE=USATODAY]Amnesty International's Asia Pacific director, Sam Zarifi, said the Taliban is already taking advantage of power vacuums in areas like Kunduz province, with disturbing results. A cellphone video last year in Kunduz showed a woman standing in a 4-foot hole in the ground, her face hidden by a blue burqa. A Taliban leader read off the charge of adultery, and men then rushed forward and pelted her with rocks. After a large rock hit her head she fell over, her burqa red with blood. A man then walked up and shot her with an AK-47.[/QUOTE] YOU GO TALIBAN! STONE THOSE CIVILIANS! /endsarcasm 1. The Taliban were always involved in a case, they were the authority. Saying the Taliban weren't involved in all cases is like saying the police aren't involved in all arrests. 2. The Taliban had a terrible record of [URL="http://books.google.com/books?id=w_VsJWZDRJUC&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=Dupree+Hatch,+Nancy.+%22Afghan+Women+under+the+Taliban%22+in+Maley,+William.+Fundamentalism+Reborn?+Afghanistan+and+the+Taliban.&source=bl&ots=0Iux0JjYfK&sig=bkP9WhKhO8tzYEfVQXFOBvq6g-g&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k7wrUJ-hOqSw0AHnnYDgBw&ved=0CEwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Dupree%20Hatch%2C%20Nancy.%20%22Afghan%20Women%20under%20the%20Taliban%22%20in%20Maley%2C%20William.%20Fundamentalism%20Reborn%3F%20Afghanistan%20and%20the%20Taliban.&f=false"]oppressing women[/URL]. [QUOTE] To PHR's knowledge, no other regime in the world has methodically and violently forced half of its population into virtual house arrest, prohibiting them on pain of physical punishment. —Physicians for Human Rights, 1998 [/QUOTE] Women could not get an education under the Taliban. Women could not leave the house with out a male relative, no matter what. Male doctors were not allowed to treat women, thus there was almost no health care available to women. In addition there were few jobs for women under the Taliban. Don't see how the burqa argument is irrelevant. 3.[QUOTE]According to Human Rights Watch (HRW), in September 1999, the Taliban issued decrees that forbade non-Muslims from building places of worship but allowed them to worship at existing holy sites, forbade non-Muslims from criticizing Muslims, ordered non-Muslims to identify their houses by placing a yellow cloth on their rooftops, forbade non-Muslims from living in the same residence as Muslims, and required that non-Muslim women wear a yellow dress with a special mark so that Muslims could keep their distance.[/QUOTE] It was an effort to segregate non-Muslims from Muslims. No matter how you try to sugar coat it. By the way, I'm not even going into what the Taliban did to Hazaras, but I could. 4. Oppression is not a matter of opinion, you don't have to be film director to know the film is shit. 5. The Taliban publicly executed anyone not just psychopaths. This included women. 6. Its not fear of prosecution. Its fear of brutal beatings, fear of execution. Fear of the Taliban coming to your house and dragging you out into the street because you flew a kite. 7. Ahmad Shah Massoud is what Afghanistan deserved, instead it got the Taliban. [QUOTE]In the areas under his control, Massoud set up democratic institutions and signed the Women's Rights Declaration. In the areas under Massoud, women and girls did not have to wear the Afghan burqa. They were allowed to work and to go to school. In at least two known instances, Massoud personally intervened against cases of forced marriage.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] It is our conviction and we believe that both men and women are created by the Almighty. Both have equal rights. Women can pursue an education, women can pursue a career, and women can play a role in society – just like men. —Ahmad Shah Massoud, 2001[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Human Rights Watch cites no human rights crimes for the forces under direct control of Massoud for the period from October 1996 until the assassination of Massoud in September 2001.[/QUOTE] And your only complaint against Massoud is that the farmers in his territories grew poppies. You're grasping at straws. That's all they grow up there, poppies. Nothing else is profitable enough to support their families. [QUOTE]Can you provide a source for your claims? When did NATO even say that the targets were dual-use for the indiscriminate bombings in Serbia? Heck on the contrary they reveal their disgusting attitude of targeting civilians to pressure the governing authority. [B]Savages in uniform at best.[/B][/QUOTE] That's ludicrous that you are asking for "sources" pretty much any article ever written on NATO's intervention mentions this part of their strategy. Did you even do any rudimentary reasearch? But because you asked so nicely: here's a full report by RAND corp: [URL="http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1351/MR1351.ch6.pdf"]http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1351/MR1351.ch6.pdf[/URL] [URL]http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/hayden.htm[/URL] Quote mining from one source. Nice... I also can find an article written by some college professor to say any thing I want. [URL]http://www.chomsky.info/articles/200005--.htm[/URL] And gj quoting Chompsky who has been caught lying multiple times about this [URL="http://www.paulbogdanor.com/200chomskylies.pdf"]specific conflict and others[/URL]. [QUOTE]I have a couple of Serbian friends who hate the US and NATO for what they did their country. They also hated Milsovic before you say they were probably pro-Milsovic. The above confirms it all.[/QUOTE] Oh you have Serbian friends? Well, I have Bosnian friends, who have no family thanks to Serbia. Isn't that nice we both have "friends". [QUOTE]Kinda late dont you think when the damage was already done? What, they didnt know using [B]chemical weapons[/B] would be bad in the long term for the land and its civilians?[/QUOTE] You missed my point completely. Its was a herbicide not a chemical weapon. [QUOTE]Use of DU ammo was actually confirmed by the "international bodies" to be behind the surge in cancer cases in Iraq (sometime in 2000), I dont remember if it was WHO or some arm of the UN.[/QUOTE] No source, no dice. [QUOTE] It was later rejected by the same body for unknown reasons (2001?)[/QUOTE] The US was not in Iraq in 2001, nor were we in Iraq in 2000. Pretty much everything you've said so far is a fabrication. [QUOTE]The Iraqi's werent the ones who prevented proper studies, it was these organizations who seem interested after rejecting them and simply closing the issue.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]But despite lack of governmental support, and very little support from outside Iraq, Alani is determined to continue her work.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/01/2012126394859797.html"]Al-Jazzera[/URL] The Iraqi government does not support the studies. There are no "organizations" like you speak of in Iraq that prevent the studies. [QUOTE]So you'd support this [B]terrorist state[/B][/QUOTE] Demonizing Israel isn't going to win you any friends. Nor is putting words in my mouth going to convince me of your babble. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair[/URL] [QUOTE]Operation Susannah and the Lavon Affair turned out to be disastrous for Israel in several ways: Israel lost significant standing and credibility in its relations with the United Kingdom and the United States that would take years to repair. (The encyclopedia of the Arab-Israeli conflict: a political, social, and military history. ABC-CLIO, 2008. p. 610)[/QUOTE] The US didn't support this. [QUOTE]Israel is a terrorist state, that believes in killing civilians, just to change political climate in a country. USA supports them. Its no different than Al-Qaeda wanting to kill civilians and the Taliban supporting them.[/QUOTE] What bullshit. Tell me, are you Arabic or Persian? [QUOTE]There is ofcourse the USS Liberty too, but then you'all gonna dismiss it as a conspiracy theory.[/QUOTE] Because it is. Don't get started with this crap. [QUOTE]There are even calls within the US for removing MEK from the list of terrorist organizations. Just so that the US can more openly collaberate with a terrorist organization just to get at Iran.[/QUOTE] Seymour Hersh is not a reliable source, despite the awards he has won for journalism. I read the article and he has no validation besides his personal testimony and "anonymous sources". Hersh has also claimed that: The US planned to nuke Iran Hillary Clinton is a pawn of the rich Jews The US planned to stage a false flag attack in order to attack Iran. Hersh's journalism has taken a significant downturn since his reporting in the 60's and 70's. He has been discredited for his frequent use of "anonymous" sources. MEK has distanced itself away from terrorism in recent years and the EU has revoked its status as a terrorist organization. Several former US officials think we should do the same. Those officials are not in power and MEK is still a terror organization according to USA. [QUOTE]so what? one idiot doesnt represent the actions of the whole? want me to list the despicable actions of committed by individuals in the US forces in the last 10 years? Abu Ghuraib ring a bell? Let me then just be an idiot and brush all americans in the same category.Im not trying to distort anything, and I dont intend to lie because I dont have any hidden agenda. When shit is wrong, I say its wrong no matter who/what/where it is. Like I said, I provide an alternative view which is not so common because US/UK media (CNN/BBC etc) are as biased as RT. On the contrary as I have proved, you seem to be lying outright and distorting events. 10 naive people. Go ahead rate me dumb :P[/QUOTE] Well lets see You got caught outright lying about the Time magazine cover. You lied about the Taliban's trials You lied (or was just ignorant) about when the US entered Iraq you said 2000 and 2001. You lied about the persecution of Hindus under the Taliban and glanced over Hazaras You lied about the persecution of women under the Taliban You lied about Massoud and the opium farmers. You lied about the "international bodies" investigating DU. You claimed you had "Serbian friends" which is anecdotal evidence at best You lied about the Lavorn Affair, and how the US supported it when the US in fact did not. You quoted a liar, Chompsky. and you just compared atrocities committed by individuals in US forces to systemic atrocities committed daily by the Taliban. You "alternative view" is, hmmm how to put it politely? Crap. There is a reason you are gettting dumbs. Might as well just type "sheeple" over and over. You'd get funnies that way.

[QUOTE=Hayburner;37246346]hmm i wonder if all that opium is related to the occupation [editline]15th August 2012[/editline] but they do[/QUOTE] Jesus it is like all the worst posters decided to come over here.

[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;37254481]Jesus it is like all the worst posters decided to come over here.[/QUOTE] Now we just need Powerball and we will be set.

Found the perfect video. [video=youtube;feB7Oc8rw1o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feB7Oc8rw1o&feature=youtu.be[/video]

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;37251173]-jesus h. christ[/QUOTE] God [I]dayum[/I] man. I love you.

I'm afraid it'll only get worse. Green on blue incidents are on a sharp rise this year. The troops need to pull out of Afghanistan asap. But at the same time, I don't want those poor Afghan people to suffer from Taliban scum. I don't know what's the best thing to do :(