Nick Clegg backs report on legalising cannabis - "the war on drugs is a costly failure" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Geomancer;44737494]Do you guys really think people would use PCP and Krokodil if everything became legal/decriminalized? (Of course, there's always someone, but that's besides the point.) A lot of the problems regarding drugs are a result of prohibition.[/QUOTE] My guess is close to zero people would use either because they would actually have access to better options. Also krokodil essentially wouldn't exist seeing as all the shitty rotting/decaying stuff is caused by a poorly synthesized product rather than the active ingredient (desomorphine) itself, it wouldn't even be krokodil it'd just be called desomorphine. And even then nobody would use it, because from what I've read from people who've tried it, the high is pretty lame compared to heroin/morphine/oxycodone etc., it's just dirt cheap and keeps withdrawal syndromes at bay.

[QUOTE=The Aussie;44737068]The argument is that with proper regulation and education, less people would start, and with better quality product and better support services less people will be physically harmed or become addicted. Everytime a thread like this comes up some dipshit will either make a DARE inspired statement or an educated member of the drug community will start a shitstorm to do with the legalisation of drugs. It always ends the same too. You people throw around scary drug words like "Heroin", "PCP" and "Krokodil", and yet i bet that none of them can tell me what class of drugs they're in, what position they are in on the dependence/harm scale, what family of drugs they belong to, how they work, how they're taken, their effects and more. Of course i'm not saying that every drug user knows this. However, i know for a fact that for many of the people of DD and other sensible drug communities around the net (420 chan, /r/drugs, bluelight.ru etc.) actually fucking research what they're putting into their bodies. Their dose, their dangers, what to do to avoid a bad trip, getting a trip sitter, the tiny intricacies of each drug that make them unique. LSD and NBOMe for example, are two similar acting drugs, but completely different in most areas. The people who don't listen, who ignore good usage practices. They're the ones who get addicted, die, get injured. I know some people who took a heroic dose of shrooms their first time, freaked out and decided that a good old glass of drano would be an excellent way to end the universe. They didn't end up drinking the drano, but they discussed at lengths committing suicide and how it was a pretty good idea. Does this mean i never want to do shrooms? Does it mean i want to keep my friends away from it? Fuck no. Those guys were being dumb about a drug. They took a stupid fucking risk and got lucky. But for the people who don't, and for those who kill themselves out of will full ignorance, i have no sympathy. [editline]7th May 2014[/editline] Read this through before replying. The experiments results were originally suppressed by the Nixon goverment because it didn't fit with the party line that if you smoke a blunt you're a lifelong addict. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park[/url] After reading it, surprise surprise, adult rats living in a stable environment and not using morphine as a method of escapism didn't become addicted to it, even though they had been made to be addicted earlier.[/QUOTE] I am all for legalizing weed, but jesus you act like I am some stuck up conservative right wing extremist. From my understaning krokodil is a substitute for heroin and heroin is an opiate, PCP is a powerful hallucinogen. I know the flawed research of 1900's, I do believe people can live with those drugs perfectly healthy, but it will create addicts, that's just a thing you will have to understand. Just like how your alcohol drinking habit isn't ruining your life, but for someone else their life is in bits and pieces because of the alcohol. (while i'd like to see alcohol prohibited, we all knew what happened last time) People will hurt themselves on drugs no matter what drug, but people will always "challenge" the laws too. We have to be extremly careful with what we allow and why. If it's something relatively harmful such as weed we can go ahead, but the main reason is that so many people use it it would let the police deal with actually dangerous substances that hurt people. If we just opened the floodgates all at once we probably would have more problems than we started out with.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736284]I wasn't talking about toxicity, heroin ruins lives and did you not see the news stories where people on PCP attacked random people and bit them like zombies[/QUOTE] Man you sure liked Drug Education in school eh? Who informed you about drugs, your local pastor? According to the things you said every major city would be full of reports of people biting each other like in 28 Days later. Do you even know how many people do drugs every day? It's not just the local junkie you always see at the bus station. How about doing some research instead of gobbling up everything the media tells you? People that die because of drugs have far worse problems, mostly psychological, long before they started doing drugs. They just abuse them so much that it kills them which is basically suicide but not so sudden.

[QUOTE=The Combine;44737603]Man you sure liked Drug Education in school eh? Who informed you about drugs, your local pastor? According to the things you said every major city would be full of reports of people biting each other like in 28 Days later. Do you even know how many people do drugs every day? It's not just the local junkie you always see at the bus station. How about doing some research instead of gobbling up everything the media tells you? People that die because of drugs have far worse problems, mostly psychological, long before they started doing drugs. They just abuse them so much that it kills them which is basically suicide but not so sudden.[/QUOTE] erowid and drug users. Hell I'd smoke weed if it was legal I have a positive view on it because it is rather mild, but i've heard horror stories about stuff like PCP and heroin outside of random guys the police asked to hold a speech in school or what the newspapers tell me.

[QUOTE=Killergam;44736387]Politicians will say anything to get the vote. At least UKIP has kept the same core goals all the way through the last few years.[/QUOTE] And look how far their noble policies have gotten them [editline]6th May 2014[/editline] I mean, they've got the undying support of xenophobic forum users across the world, what more does a """[I][B][U]major[/U][/B][/I]""" *Derisive snort" party need? [editline]6th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44737610]erowid and drug users. Hell I'd smoke weed if it was legal I have a positive view on it because it is rather mild, but i've heard horror stories about stuff like PCP and heroin outside of random guys the police asked to hold a speech in school or what the newspapers tell me.[/QUOTE] I've heard horror stories of drunken deadbeat fathers who molest their children and abuse their wives, I guess we should ban alcohol I mean It was in the story after all

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44737586]I am all for legalizing weed, but jesus you act like I am some stuck up conservative right wing extremist. From my understaning krokodil is a substitute for heroin and heroin is an opiate, PCP is a powerful hallucinogen. I know the flawed research of 1900's, I do believe people can live with those drugs perfectly healthy, but it will create addicts, that's just a thing you will have to understand. Just like how your alcohol drinking habit isn't ruining your life, but for someone else their life is in bits and pieces because of the alcohol. (while i'd like to see alcohol prohibited, we all knew what happened last time) People will hurt themselves on drugs no matter what drug, but people will always "challenge" the laws too. We have to be extremly careful with what we allow and why. If it's something relatively harmful such as weed we can go ahead, but the main reason is that so many people use it it would let the police deal with actually dangerous substances that hurt people. If we just opened the floodgates all at once we probably would have more problems than we started out with.[/QUOTE] "Dangerous Substances" People that get hooked will get their drugs, no matter if the law allows it or not. You are not solving the problem by making it illegal you are just looking away. They turn from law abiding citizen to "those people". That said, it's not an easy thing to discuss. You can't just legalize PCP and Heroin. That would be total anarchy.

[QUOTE=KennyAwsum;44737062]I still don't honestly trust him, he has turned his back on a few policies.[/QUOTE] It's not like he's actually had any real power to be honest. I'm fairly sure if his party were the majority they'd have pushed a lot more through, but a shit ton of compromise and straight up hiding in the corner from Cameron hasn't helped their image at all.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736252]Yes, let people do PCP and shoot themselves up with heroin.[/QUOTE] Nobody is saying PCP and heroin aren't big problems. But you seem to be living in a world where we either passively accept a thing or we illegalize it. Slapping bans on things won't solve all the world's problems, sometimes we have to actually think about how to solve problems instead of just punishing people who are affected. You'll realize that this is true when you look at the fact that there [I]are[/I] laws against these drugs, but the problems very much exist anyway.

[QUOTE=The Combine;44737652]"Dangerous Substances" People that get hooked will get their drugs, no matter if the law allows it or not. You are not solving the problem by making it illegal you are just looking away. They turn from law abiding citizen to "those people". That said, it's not an easy thing to discuss. You can't just legalize PCP and Heroin. That would be total anarchy.[/QUOTE] Yeah! You know, just this morning I was thinking how fucking awesome it would be to start regularly injecting myself with heroin three or four times a day for an extended period of time. But then I remembered, "Shit! Heroin is illegal! That makes it literally impossible for anyone to ever get ahold of, seeing as it's completely wrong that every medium sized city and up will have at least 3-4 shady looking guys you can simply walk up to in the metro and buy it from." Good thing it's illegal I guess!

[QUOTE=The Combine;44737652]"Dangerous Substances" People that get hooked will get their drugs, no matter if the law allows it or not. You are not solving the problem by making it illegal you are just looking away. They turn from law abiding citizen to "those people". That said, it's not an easy thing to discuss. You can't just legalize PCP and Heroin. That would be total anarchy.[/QUOTE] People who want to rob banks will rob banks regardless if its legal or not. The "people will do it anyway" argument is terrible because it can be applied to anything

[QUOTE=NorthernFall;44736998]Decriminalise all drugs, and allow business's to sell cannabis, MDMA, shrooms, LSD and another psychedelics with good regulation and monitoring similar to the food industry.[/QUOTE] Shrooms are a funny one because they grow all over the place around here but if i went and picked them I'd apparently get up to 7 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44737844]People who want to rob banks will rob banks regardless if its legal or not.[/QUOTE] This just in! Voluntarily consuming chemicals is BAD for the same reasons robbing banks is BAD! Not only that, but in exactly the same way that legal businesses take over the sale and distribution of drugs from organized criminals when they are legalized and in the process add regulations and generally make the consumer safer, legal businesses will take over the work of robbing banks from organized criminals, because clearly the demand for banks will still exist when they are regularly being robbed. Fucking brilliant Fff, this must be your greatest analogy so far. [editline]6th May 2014[/editline] Also I'm just wondering why do people keep mentioning PCP as if it hasn't been anything less than an incredibly rare niché in modern times? I'm pretty sure everybody stopped using PCP once the 80s were over, guys.

[QUOTE=murple;44736304]not to mention crocodil[/QUOTE] krokodil is a product of prohibition, the reason it exists is pretty much to fulfil the demand for an opiate cheaper than heroin mainly in countries where heroin is exorbitantly expensive if it isn't produced in such a crude way like [B][COLOR=#A06000][URL="http://facepunch.com/member.php?u=468764"]FurrehFaux[/URL] [/COLOR][/B]said it is non-toxic

[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;44736247]If you're gonna legalize one thing, might as well legalize it all.[/QUOTE] Ahhh theres nothing like starting your day off with some waffles and crack. I know rob ford would approve.

Just interested in people's opinions really, but Britain doesn't really have a 'war on drugs' does it? Not compared with countries like the US at least. It seems to be a lot more focussed on stopping people profit off of other people's misery than anything, and every custody suite seems to have a rehabilitation offer to those who want it rather than a charge. Prevention > Prosecution

[QUOTE=Memobot;44740336]Just interested in people's opinions really, but Britain doesn't really have a 'war on drugs' does it? Not compared with countries like the US at least. It seems to be a lot more focussed on stopping people profit off of other people's misery than anything, and every custody suite seems to have a rehabilitation offer to those who want it rather than a charge. Prevention > Prosecution[/QUOTE] The british police do have a hateboner for drugs. They are a lot more rational about it than they seem to be in america but it's still pretty extreme.

[QUOTE=murple;44736304]not to mention crocodil[/QUOTE] please stop krokodil is barely a thing in dirt poor areas of eastern europe you will never, EVER find it anywhere else in the world it is a non issue you people can stop bringing it up now ok thanks

[QUOTE=bravehat;44736308]alcohol, which is actually stupidly dangerous[/QUOTE] lol

[QUOTE=Memobot;44740336]Just interested in people's opinions really, but Britain doesn't really have a 'war on drugs' does it? Not compared with countries like the US at least. It seems to be a lot more focussed on stopping people profit off of other people's misery than anything, and every custody suite seems to have a rehabilitation offer to those who want it rather than a charge. Prevention > Prosecution[/QUOTE] Pff- If you have anything on you you are getting nicked. Unless it is just a small bag of weed, then you can claim personal use and you get a caution.

The Zetas cartel estimated about 1.2 billion in losses so far from legalized pot, leaving them having to push harder in the hard drug market as well as push more weed East where it is still illegal and prices are higher. So uhh, yeah, the war on drugs can fuck right off, it didn't do anything really. And this was just with the legalization in Colorado. [editline]6th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Rediscover;44741194]please stop krokodil is barely a thing in dirt poor areas of eastern europe you will never, EVER find it anywhere else in the world it is a non issue you people can stop bringing it up now ok thanks[/QUOTE] Actually a few isolated cases of use have been discovered in Texas. So it has made its way here.

krokodil if anything is evidence [I]against[/I] the war on drugs. If heroin were decriminalised and regulated you would get far less of these DIY drugs. It's in the same vein as weed legalisation reducing the use of dangerous synthetics among uneducated users

[QUOTE=Rediscover;44741194]please stop krokodil is barely a thing in dirt poor areas of eastern europe you will never, EVER find it anywhere else in the world it is a non issue you people can stop bringing it up now ok thanks[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3181910.shtml]Yeah, about that...[/url]

I read this as, "Nick Clegg backs report on legalizing cannibalism-the war on drugs is a costly failure" Safe to safe I'm a [I]little[/I] disappointed by this article.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;44742464][url=http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3181910.shtml]Yeah, about that...[/url][/QUOTE] well shit.

[QUOTE=Rediscover;44742730]well shit.[/QUOTE] When news about how to get a cheap high starts to spread, so does its usage.

In the UK we get a hell of a lot of young people dying from legal highs which are just a cocktail of shit usually sold as plant food to the club scene we have round here. People take it because it's legal, but it's also more likely to kill you then a illegally bought tab of ecstasy.

[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;44741934]Pff- If you have anything on you you are getting nicked. Unless it is just a small bag of weed, then you can claim personal use and you get a caution.[/QUOTE] You get a caution for cannabis, providing you're over 16 and haven't had one before, then you're nicked. Still, they do so to get the supplier first and foremost don't they? I just wouldn't use the term 'extreme' is all I'm saying.