[QUOTE=deathstarboot;29167537]Well he did say any group of people.[/QUOTE]
Except that everybody considers Sony to be a bunch of idiotic monkeys while praising the people who are just as bad.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;29169632]Except that everybody considers Sony to be a bunch of idiotic monkeys while praising the people who are just as bad.[/QUOTE]
This is why I don't want to get involved, because I am a pirate. But I know piracy can get really bad, just see the PSP series :v:
[QUOTE=Swilly;29169662]This is why I don't want to get involved, because I am a pirate. But I know piracy can get really bad, just see the PSP series :v:[/QUOTE]
It can also me benificial. What Piracy should ideally do is encourage them to make better products. What it seems to do is make some of them worse. Then those that were just shit from the beginning also just scream "PIRATES" when their shit sucks too. It's why you're rolling your eyes every time a distributor or dev is bitching at them.
[QUOTE=Bomimo;29170056]It can also me benificial. What Piracy should ideally do is encourage them to make better products. What it seems to do is make some of them worse. Then those that were just shit from the beginning also just scream "PIRATES" when their shit sucks too. It's why you're rolling your eyes every time a distributor or dev is bitching at them.[/QUOTE]
One of the most pirated games for the PSP was the God of War games and they were considered two of the must haves if you own a PSP.
Its not the fact that you can pirate some of the games, it was that you could download ANY of the games from the PSN store for free.
Sony should have ended with the PS2. It was the last good thing they did.
[QUOTE=Sourcream&onion;29176726]Sony should have ended with the PS2. It was the last good thing they did.[/QUOTE]
Look the stupid shit they're doing now is most likely the execs and market division. NOT the software engineers, those who developed the console, or the Game developers. This is the problem with a corporation being considered a single being, its fucking not and dragging down the entire company because of a bunch of execs and share holders being asshats means nothing.
Are there any consoles that have never been hacked? Why fight it? It's going to happen sooner or later.
[QUOTE=EastBayWilly;29183471]Are there any consoles that have never been hacked? Why fight it? It's going to happen sooner or later.[/QUOTE]
Because each generation it gets harder to hack them. This time around for the 360 and PS3 it was a single error that let them in. I'm guessing the next PS(whatever) will brick when you try to hack it because of this. They did it to the PSP3000.
[QUOTE=Swilly;29183532]Because each generation it gets harder to hack them. This time around for the 360 and PS3 it was a single error that let them in. I'm guessing the next PS(whatever) will brick when you try to hack it because of this. They did it to the PSP3000.[/QUOTE]
I have a PSP3000. I'm loving the loads of Homebrew I got on it. As you were saying?
[QUOTE=EastBayWilly;29183571]I have a PSP3000. I'm loving the loads of Homebrew I got on it. As you were saying?[/QUOTE]
So do I, I also have a busted on that bricked one me before. The thing was set up to brick and it actually took a lot longer to get around that feature :colbert:
By the way, anecdotal evidence doesn't work.
[QUOTE=Swilly;29183645]So do I, I also have a busted on that bricked one me before. The thing was set up to brick and it actually took a lot longer to get around that feature :colbert:
By the way, anecdotal evidence doesn't work.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry you bricked one of your PSPs, but that's the risk we all face when cracking consoles. Personally I never tried anything until I knew for a fact it wouldn't hurt my systems. My PSP was no exception.
[QUOTE=EastBayWilly;29183700]I'm sorry you bricked one of your PSPs, but that's the risk we all face when cracking consoles. Personally I never tried anything until I knew for a fact it wouldn't hurt my systems. My PSP was no exception.[/QUOTE]
Thats exactly my point in all this. It was just a single error that lead to hacking the PS3, if the PS4 has that fixed and bricks when you try to mess with it...it won't be financially worth cracking.
For real? If i was the guy getting raided by them. I would've kicked their Sony ass outta my house and back to e3 2004 so they could play their damn ridge racer.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;29165134]The funny thing is that this can also easily be said of console hackers.[/QUOTE]
That logic is several levels of stupid so I'll explain
First, the console "hackers" bought the console. It is their console, you couldn't say the same thing about a vehicle or ball or any other tangible entity and get away with it (not implying it shouldn't be alright for non-tangible creations as well)
Second, internet connections are where personal property comes in. When hackers 'abuse' the service they're using, such as PSN, PSN has every right to cut off their service. I'm not disputing this at all. End their warranty, cut off their free online service, that's all alright with me. What I'm not alright with is people going to jail over innovation and creation.
Third, intellectual property is horrible. The government granting monopoly rights to an idea is absurd.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;29169632]Except that everybody considers Sony to be a bunch of idiotic monkeys while praising the people who are just as bad.[/QUOTE]
No, like i said i don't blame Sony. The government gave them this power and given the ability anybody will exploit it to their own ends. They have every right and duty to their citizens to take that ability away from them.
The intellectual property argument (and by extension, this entire topic) is the one place where I agree with s0beit completely. How anyone can think that people being sued or even having [i]criminal[/i] charges brought against them for tinkering with their own property is acceptable is beyond me.
And before you jump to an extreme such as, "well what about bomb-making Zeke?", I don't know. I'll have to think on it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29185847]The intellectual property argument (and by extension, this entire topic) is the one place where I agree with s0beit completely. How anyone can think that people being sued or even having [i]criminal[/i] charges brought against them for tinkering with their own property is acceptable is beyond me.
And before you jump to an extreme such as, "well what about bomb-making Zeke?", I don't know. I'll have to think on it.[/QUOTE]
Intellectual property is retarded, but unfortunately its such a grey area its hard to figure out. While hardware and software are intertwined, its not actually together. Which is idiotic but unavoidable.
[QUOTE=Swilly;29185890]Intellectual property is retarded, but unfortunately its such a grey area its hard to figure out. While hardware and software are intertwined, its not actually together. Which is idiotic but unavoidable.[/QUOTE]
software doesn't exist
it's the result of electrons moving around in hardware
I don't see how someone can own something non-corporeal
it's like patenting love
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29185901]software doesn't exist
it's the result of electrons moving around in hardware
I don't see how someone can own something non-corporeal[/QUOTE]
Exactly, so thats why Intellectual property exists, yes you own the hardware, but the sticking point is the software.
fuck I edited my post like a million times not knowing if non-corporeal was the right word to use
Wait, since when does Sony own the police?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29185914]fuck I edited my post like a million times not knowing if non-corporeal was the right word to use[/QUOTE]
Its okay, I do the same thing all the time.
[editline]15th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Maximo13;29185915]Wait, since when does Sony own the police?[/QUOTE]
If you actually read through the thread, it was just two of Sony's lawyers handing a legal warrant for his equipment. There were no police involved.
Fight the power! Sony need to give in and respect that modding is the way forward and bugger off.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29185901]software doesn't exist
it's the result of electrons moving around in hardware
I don't see how someone can own something non-corporeal
it's like patenting love[/QUOTE]
When someone makes something, corporeal or not, they expect to have full credit, and most likely want a monetary return. Now, if you didn't have IP laws, everyone would be stealing everyone's ideas, and then it'll be the late nineteenth century, early twentieth all over again. And unfortunately, while these laws were made in good faith, the legislators didn't expect RCA.
And "patenting love" is a bad analogy, as mostly everyone is born with the ability to love at a whim, it's not an idea, either.
If you don't like what sony is doing, don't buy their products.
Simple as fuck.
[QUOTE=Mr.Thorn;29190617]Fight the power! Sony need to give in and respect that modding is the way forward and bugger off.[/QUOTE]
Modding is hardly the way forward, seeing as you still have the restrictions of the hardware you are using and all there isn't really any way to move forward. New ideas and the likes are the way forward, something none of these "modders" have. All that exists for CFW are some half arsed ports of PC emulators, a metric fuckton of "backup" loaders and a OtherOS thing that nobody is going to use when it comes out anyway as most CFW users are too busy pirating and ruining online games for others.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;29194743]Modding is hardly the way forward, seeing as you still have the restrictions of the hardware you are using and all there isn't really any way to move forward. New ideas and the likes are the way forward, something none of these "modders" have. All that exists for CFW are some half arsed ports of PC emulators, a metric fuckton of "backup" loaders and a OtherOS thing that nobody is going to use when it comes out anyway as most CFW users are too busy pirating and ruining online games for others.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much spot-on, except for the last part. Yes, OtherOS's userbase wasn't that humongous but I still think there's a good amount of people who will use it. At least more than you think.
Then again, this is just predicting shit. And like our good friend Bill over at Microsoft and a certain someone named Michael, I'm not that much of a visionary.
[QUOTE=johan_sm;29151627]Well since sony can't fix their hardware bug, they need to eliminate the ones who mess with it.
Just shows that if you're a person, you mean jack shit and companies can do anything they please.
Yay capitalism.[/QUOTE]
It is so petty to use an incident like this to criticize capitalism.
Maybe you should proceed with studying what capitalism actually is.
[editline]16th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=s0beit;29185136]Third, intellectual property is horrible. The government granting monopoly rights to an idea is absurd.
[/QUOTE]
You wouldn't be saying this if I stole and profited off your creation.
Nice try though.
[QUOTE=Strider*;29209629]You wouldn't be saying this if I stole and profited off your creation.
Nice try though.[/QUOTE]
People have stolen my ideas before, I still hold this position.
More to the point my own ideas have been used by my competitors [i]against me[/i], what did i do in that situation? Sue them? Negative. Threaten arrest? No. I beat them. Any competent software producer or even corporation could do the same, they just don't have to, to their delight, thanks to government intervention in the marketplace.
[b]However[/b] i have been the victim of copyright (and related) laws in that companies have threatened me with legal action for modifications or use of their trademark.
First, if you're talking about protecting the original creators of ideas Intellectual Property has already failed in that respect since often times it's the corporations and not the creators within that corporation that hold the copyright.
Second, it is a form of government monopoly. It allows corporations to be lax in their competition because, hey, they hold copyright to the idea. There is no competition without being paid dues or more likely, hardly any competition at all.
Take for example copyright wars in which (large) companies often sue each other back and forth for stealing each other's intellectual property, often, they decide to settle their disputes. The smaller company is not as privileged in this respect, since they often don't have the money to compensate for their supposed "theft" and are kicked out of the competitive market entirely. This is not free market and i don't know who would advocate it claiming to be a person of free market persuasion.
You can also make the case that somebody came up with the exact same idea without being aware of the "original" creator's same findings. In this case even under your own view, they're both the owners since the idea was a product of both of their minds.
Think of this in the tangible realm, let's say Ford invented the idea of a "car", so, from then on out he holds monopoly rights on motorized vehicles. I don't see how this is justice, fair or free.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWShFz4d2RY[/media]
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;29191903]When someone makes something, corporeal or not, they expect to have full credit, and most likely want a monetary return. Now, if you didn't have IP laws, everyone would be stealing everyone's ideas, and then it'll be the late nineteenth century, early twentieth all over again. And unfortunately, while these laws were made in good faith, the legislators didn't expect RCA.
And "patenting love" is a bad analogy, as mostly everyone is born with the ability to love at a whim, it's not an idea, either.[/QUOTE]
It really depends on what your definition of 'stealing' is, exactly. To me, you can steal a Ball, a house, a car (You wouldn't download a car), a pen or whatever other tangible device of your choosing. You can not steal an idea. If somebody creates the idea of a hotdog or a bicycle i wouldn't want them to have monopoly privileges over those things.
In the case of the hotdog man they're free to make the process of creating a hotdog secret and have their workers sign contracts. They are however not allowed to use the force of the government to police their ideas and make sure nobody uses their idea in any way without their express permission. They're also free to compete against people using that idea.
Think about windows for example, their API is open and people are free to modify and distort it in a number of ways through drivers or usermode modifications however, let's apply intellectual property to this and let's say windows decides you can't do that, that under their operating system you have no right to modify or distribute the works of modification or creation without their consent. What would happen? Complete and total monopoly without question, it would be horrible.
Finally, that isn't to say people can just out and out steal names of companies or misrepresent themselves to consumers. They might not be violating some trademark or copyright but they would be defrauding the consumer, they still couldn't call their perfectly replicated PS3 a "PS3", they'd have to call it something else.
There'd be more consoles, more competition, unlimited innovation and it would be one hell of a great system under which people don't get in legal trouble for innovation or modifying their own property which they obtained legally through trade.
[editline]e[/editline]
If you're curious about movies things of that nature, i don't consider them linked to monopoly intellectual property. New laws should be crafted.
Meh, as long as the hacks don't allow people to fuck with multiplayer (eg: Wallhacks, aimbot) or pirate games, I'm on geohotz side.
[QUOTE=killover;29211123]Meh, as long as the hacks don't allow people to fuck with multiplayer (eg: Wallhacks, aimbot) or pirate games, I'm on geohotz side.[/QUOTE]
If you make something open like that, there will be hacks made for it.
It's the way of greedu skiddies and 12 year olds
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