Hong Kong's "Umbrella Revolution" grows after riot police fail to disperse pro-democracy demonstrato
56 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Jund;46106015]People go "oh it's the 21st century, nations can't just do whatever they want", but Russia literally invaded a sovereign nation and stole a good chunk of its land, and we barely batted an eye
It's pretty obvious that the West is too scared to do anything, and we give even less of a fuck about HK[/QUOTE]
"Too scared" how about "not stupid." There is nothing to gain from intervening in either Ukraine and lots to lose. And to even think of trying something in Hong Kong is insanity. What nations would gain anything from trying to stop China in Hong Kong?
[QUOTE=Explosions;46106036]"Too scared" how about "not stupid." There is nothing to gain from intervening in either Ukraine and lots to lose. And to even think of trying something in Hong Kong is insanity. What nations would gain anything from trying to stop China in Hong Kong?[/QUOTE]
That's the fucking point
If there's no threat to China, they could put the hammer down in HK and no one would give a shit
Thinking that China wouldn't try anything because of "media perception" is a right laugh
[QUOTE=Jund;46106051]That's the fucking point
If there's no threat to China, they could put the hammer down in HK and no one would give a shit
Thinking that China wouldn't try anything because of "media perception" is a right laugh[/QUOTE]
I agree. That's not the West being "scared," though.
[QUOTE=Jund;46106015]People go "oh it's the 21st century, nations can't just do whatever they want", but Russia literally invaded a sovereign nation and stole a good chunk of its land, and we barely batted an eye
It's pretty obvious that the West is too scared to do anything, and we give even less of a fuck about HK[/QUOTE]
I think it's a bit different. If China started massacring students in one of the most important financial centers in the world, I'm pretty sure countries are going to react a bit more. Hong Kong isn't just some Eastern European farm land.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;46106069]I think it's a bit different. If China started massacring students in one of the most important financial centers in the world, I'm pretty sure countries are going to react a bit more. Hong Kong isn't just some Eastern European farm land.[/QUOTE]
Except that Ukraine is a sovereign nation (aka its own goddamn country) and HK is an autonomous region
Yeah I'm sure people went "oh my god it's almost the 21st century how could this happen??" when the Tiananmen Square massacre happened, but guess what? No one gives a shit about it today and we just swept it under the rug so we can play businessman with China
[editline]29th September 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Explosions;46106052]I agree. That's not the West being "scared," though.[/QUOTE]
Nothing to gain except not being made to look like limp dicks, which happened
[QUOTE=Jund;46106108]Except that Ukraine is a sovereign nation (aka its own goddamn country) and HK is an autonomous region
Yeah I'm sure people went "oh my god it's almost the 21st century how could this happen??" when the Tiananmen Square massacre happened, but guess what? No one gives a shit about it today and we just swept it under the rug so we can play businessman with China[/QUOTE]
I feel a lot of the world's sentiment towards China is still set by what happened in 1989. But yeah economically it doesn't seem to matter anymore to anyone.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;46106142]I feel a lot of the world's sentiment towards China is still set by what happened in 1989. But yeah economically it doesn't seem to matter anymore to anyone.[/QUOTE]
If politics don't reflect sentiment, it doesn't mean a single thing
[QUOTE=Jund;46106108]Nothing to gain except not being made to look like limp dicks, which happened[/QUOTE]
So unless NATO just invades every country which steps a toe out of line, regardless of how this affects any other countries, then the West is weak? That's what you're implying. Because the events in Ukraine and HK don't affect the West in any way. In fact, the only way that Europe could be affected by the Ukrainian crisis is if they [B]did[/B] intervene. Then, they would be worse off because of Russia possibly halting gas supplies. You're definition of "weak" is ridiculous and belongs in 1300 a.d.
[QUOTE=Explosions;46106159]So unless NATO just invades every country which steps a toe out of line, regardless of how this affects any other countries, then the West is weak? That's what you're implying. Because the events in Ukraine and HK don't affect the West in any way. In fact, the only way that Europe could be affected by the Ukrainian crisis is if they [B]did[/B] intervene. Then, they would be worse off because of Russia possibly halting gas supplies. You're definition of "weak" is ridiculous and belongs in 1300 a.d.[/QUOTE]
The events in HK may affect the economy though.
I don't get it.
What should be the international response to these riots?
[QUOTE=Explosions;46106159]So unless NATO just invades every country which steps a toe out of line, regardless of how this affects any other countries, then the West is weak? That's what you're implying. Because the events in Ukraine and HK don't affect the West in any way. In fact, the only way that Europe could be affected by the Ukrainian crisis is if they [B]did[/B] intervene. Then, they would be worse off because of Russia possibly halting gas supplies. You're definition of "weak" is ridiculous and belongs in 1300 a.d.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter if you think the West is weak or not, because it makes it look weak to the rest of the world
No doubt Russia and China were emboldened by what happened in Ukraine, and the West's appearance as a reliable force has been severely reduced in the eyes of neutral countries
[editline]29th September 2014[/editline]
If anything, your politicking based on pure resources and physical gain is stuck in the 1300s
[QUOTE=Jund;46106272]It doesn't matter if you think the West is weak or not, because it makes it look weak to the rest of the world
No doubt Russia and China were emboldened by what happened in Ukraine, and the West's appearance as a reliable force has been severely reduced in the eyes of neutral countries[/QUOTE]
So weakness = not bloodcurdlingly charging into a conflict even though it would not only not benefit you, but harm you?
You still haven't described what type of intervention the West should have provided, so I really don't know what you're talking about. What should have been done? Should the US have declared war on Russia when they invaded Crimea? Should an assassination campaign have been undertaken in order to take out Russian leaders? Should cruise missiles have been launched at Russian cities? What the hell type of force should "the West" (meaningless term) have shown?
[QUOTE=Explosions;46106304]So weakness = not bloodcurdlingly charging into a conflict even though it would not only not benefit you, but harm you?
You still haven't described what type of intervention the West should have provided, so I really don't know what you're talking about. What should have been done? Should the US have declared war on Russia when they invaded Crimea? Should an assassination campaign have been undertaken in order to take out Russian leaders? Should cruise missiles have been launched at Russian cities? What the hell type of force should "the West" (meaningless term) have shown?[/QUOTE]
Supply and logistics support, surveillance, fleet repositioning, general sabre rattling
You think "the West should have done something" means "nuke Russia"? Are you an idiot?
Well, the West did apply economic sanctions, if that's the kind of thing you're referring to.
Seems CY Leung may be getting more pressure from Beijing , let's hope he doesn't have to mobilize the PLA troops based in the city
[QUOTE][B]Hong Kong leader CY Leung has urged pro-democracy protesters to "immediately" stop their campaign, as huge crowds continue to bring parts of the territory to a standstill.[/B][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29420802[/url]
[B]Update:[/B]
[QUOTE]Hong Kong police hold a press conference saying they never meant to “open fire” on protesters on Sunday, when officers unleashed 87 rounds of tear gas.
Pressed on whether police planned to shoot rubber bullets that day, Police Chief Superintendent Steve Hui Chun-tak, from the police public relations bureau, refused to answer directly, only stressing that they “never intended to fire any shots”.
A warning sign held up by officers before they shot tear gas may have caused confusion.
“The flag has two sides; the side in black says ‘warning: tear smoke’ while the other side says ‘disperse or we fire’,” Hui said. “We never meant to show [the other side of the flag] to the crowd in the front and we had absolutely no intention to open fire."
Only pepper spray, batons and tear gas were used, he said.
The Hong Kong police force also said it had enough manpower to "deal with every situation", when asked if the Chinese military was likely to intervene. Many officers were said to have worked more than 12-hour shifts in the past three days.[/QUOTE]
Source: [URL="http://www.scmp.com/article/1604385/live-protester-numbers-dwindle-military-aircraft-spotted-over-hong-kong-harbour"]http://www.scmp.com/article/1604385/live-protester-numbers-dwindle-military-aircraft-spotted-over-hong-kong-harbour[/URL]
What would happen if the PRC doesn't live up to the Joint-Declaration that it and the United Kingdom signed in "84? Would it mean that the UK would regain Hong Kong as a British Overseas Territory? I think if Xi Jinping and the National Peoples Congress doesn't understand that this is still bound by them because it was ratified in the peoples congress (& and also the houses of representatives and lords in westminster) and also presented to the UN, it could mean that the South China Sea could be powder keg awaiting to be lit
[QUOTE=Scot;46104294]I've never seen these firework like kinds of tear gas before
[video=youtube;DbjNg2U8m8k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbjNg2U8m8k[/video][/QUOTE]
Silly police, China's atmosphere is so packed with pollution and smog that the teargas will barely affect them!
Speaking of teargas, look what happened when they shot a canister towards this guy.
[URL]https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=877958012223267[/URL]
[QUOTE=harrison39;46112857]This is Venezuela[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;46104198]Leaks and a hacks are inevitable. Keeping a secret like that would be easy, especially if you have to do it time and time again. Someone would talk or get suspicious when every single candidate stands for the same values. It just takes 1 person to ask questions then spread what they find out.[/QUOTE]
Simply make them only differ on social issues that dont matter to your power. It's what america does.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;46112272]Speaking of teargas, look what happened when they shot a canister towards this guy.
[URL]https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=877958012223267[/URL][/QUOTE]
This is Venezuela
This was bound to happen years ago, Ukraine had nothing to do with this, the Brits left hong Kong on its own and China has slowly been crushing it beneath its boot. One country two systems is a fucking joke and chinas communist party is going to put this down just like every other protest in the name of stability and there's nothing the west or any power really can do since nobody is willing to start a war to protect the rights of fign citizens
[QUOTE=Sableye;46112895]This was bound to happen years ago, Ukraine had nothing to do with this, the Brits left hong Kong on its own and China has slowly been crushing it beneath its boot. One country two systems is a fucking joke and chinas communist party is going to put this down just like every other protest in the name of stability and there's nothing the west or any power really can do since nobody is willing to start a war to protect the rights of fign citizens[/QUOTE]
It will be interesting to see America's stance on this. Will it be bold sanctions on China? Will it be indifference? Will it be subtle and underground support?
Lucky the Hong Kong Police Force isn't shit if not we'd be seeing Chinese army boots on the ground by now.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;46104888]Britain built and shaped HK the way it is today, without them HK would of been on the same level with mainland.
Sure the Governors were all picked by the Westminster but did we ever hear of any shit like this going down during British rule? I certainly didn't[/QUOTE]
Then you haven't heard of the 1967 riots?
China won't play nice, but at the same time they have a lot to lose. if they act they run the risk of winning support for the protesters, if they don't act they seem weak and more people will rise to fight them. The only way to work this out is with what they had originally promised.
Here's some drone footage of the crowds
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q919bQOThvM[/media]
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