• Volleyball captain that "brought her friend home" from party is a lying fuck - tweets show she was d
    91 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42611924]What state is that?[/QUOTE] I think in at least half of the states you can legally be MIP on non-alcohol selling private property with or without the consent of the estate owner and/or parents. At least, I know here in Jersey it's like that. [url=http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591]Source[/url]
[QUOTE=MR-X;42611772]Going to Afghanistan and getting a brain injury hurts cognitive tasks as well. The age of 21 isn't because of healthy studies or risks, it was because of the prohibition.[/QUOTE] Driving a car at 15 and getting in an accident and injuring yourself in your passenger hurts cognitive tasks as well. See how great irrelevant comparisons are?
[QUOTE=Ogris;42611614]I feel sorry for the entire nation here then because everyone drinks nearly weekly since around 16 years old. While it's true that HEAVY drinking will impact growth, you're missing the point completely. Getting smashed once every half year or having a glass of wine once a week/day is far from going to damage you to a point where you'd be even close to having any damage done to your brain development. Heavy drinking means drinking to the phase of SEVERE judgment impairment/getting dizzy/throwing up, seriously, you link wikipedia yet cant even look up what [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-term_effects_of_alcohol]HEAVY drinking as you so put it means[/url]. You get drunk off one beer to a point where you can notice you're drunk, does that mean you're drinking heavily? Never mind the fact that teenagers love to brag about how much they drink because... well they're teenagers. Somehow i doubt you have any realistic experience with alcohol, because if you did you'd know how full of shit you sound right now.[/QUOTE] I'm curious on what parties you go to where people only have a glass of wine once a week. Every single party I have ever attended to, and ever heard of included drinking 'til you're shitfaced drunk. And doing that from a younger age WILL damage you. I agree that the US alcohol laws are quite extreme. But you're also full of shit.
[QUOTE=jiggu;42612016]I'm curious on what parties you go to where people only have a glass of wine once a week. Every single party I have ever attended to, and ever heard of included drinking 'til you're shitfaced drunk. And doing that from a younger age WILL damage you. I agree that the US alcohol laws are quite extreme. But you're also full of shit.[/QUOTE] You're going to shit parties / hanging out with the wrong crowd then. Go some where nice with friends, enjoy alcohol but not too much, have a nice time without getting hammered to hell and back.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42611894]There isn't any positive outcome to drinking at 18, at least with joining the military you're doing something useful and worthwhile. And I never said I agreed with being able to enlist at 18. This is like a roundabout way of trying to say the drinking age is stupid when they're completely different subjects.[/QUOTE] So you can have adult responsibilities for almost everything but drinking? Do you even read your own statements? Your avoiding the subject. The fact is you are considered legally an adult at 18, despite this, you are still considered too immature to be able to drink, while at the same time mature enough to go to war. I frankly don't care about your opinion on the age to enlist, you can enlist at 17 as well, that is even more irrelevant. I was asking for a logical explanation on why you are so against drinking for people who are under 21 but still adults.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42611462]The girl in question was drunk. I'd call that heavy drinking for someone that isn't even 21 years of age. Jesus christ, how can you even dumb my post? How can you condone underage drinking when there is undeniable proof that it WILL damage brain development? If she's getting shitfaced at some party, chances are this isn't the first time. All these people who think "oh it's okay to just get drunk on weekends" are retarded.[/QUOTE] Because kids are going to drink regardless of what you tell them. The best thing we can do is remove the criminal penalties associated with underage drinking and actually teach them proper drug and alcohol education and let them explore in a safe environment. Part of the appeal is that it's "cool" to drink because it's something only legal for adults. There would be less kids going out getting shitfaced on the weekends if we actually did something for them.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42612130][url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2827693/[/url] Because it needs to be kept away from the kind of people this study is about. I don't know why I have to keep repeating myself.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] 1–2 years of heavy drinking [/QUOTE] Umm, yeah. [QUOTE]In the past year, 23% of youth meet diagnostic criteria for a substance use disorder (alcohol or drug abuse or dependence) by age 20 3.[/QUOTE] Doesn't seem to help much, in that case then. [QUOTE]A few questions still remain, such as whether heavy substance use during adolescence causes cognitive impairments and changes in neurodevelopment, if and when are critical periods of heightened vulnerability to such effects, and if observed abnormalities remit with reduced use.[/QUOTE] So they they learned some but further testing is required to actually know if there is any problems with brain development? Read your sources.
B-but alcohol kills your brains cells!
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42612181]STOP WITH THE FUCKING MILITARY. We're not talking about serving overseas, we're talking about alcohol. The age limit of alcohol isn't relative to everything else. What's next, the driving age in Kenya? I'd argue the horrors of goatse can damage an eight year old, what's your point?[/QUOTE] The whole thing you are ignoring about being an adult with responsibilities, but not being considered responsible enough to drink alcohol? dammit, edit isn't working on my other post, and I got my auto-merge broken.
[QUOTE=LarparNar;42612066]You're going to shit parties / hanging out with the wrong crowd then. Go some where nice with friends, enjoy alcohol but not too much, have a nice time without getting hammered to hell and back.[/QUOTE] I'd love to see a single teen that enjoys alcohol for the taste. You don't go have a nice drink at a bar then come home maybe slightly tipsy. You drink 'til you're drunk, that's it. That's what everybody does. Not until you grow older and start enjoying wine/whiskey you'll actually drink for the taste instead of just trying to get drunk, but no teen ever drinks for the taste, they drink to get drunk. Don't fool yourself.
America sure is a strange place. I'd have been taking it seven ways from nine different men perfectly legally, but unable to drink, had I grown up in 'murica. Priorities.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42612286]Find me a source that says that adolescents drinking casually throughout their development are just as healthy as non-drinkers and then you can complain. Go ahead and google it yourself, I'm not your mother, there are plenty of studies which support that alcohol at a young age impairs cognitive abilities.[/QUOTE] Sorry, you have the burden of information, since you made the original claim. Do you even know how to debate? Heck, you haven't even said your opinion on high school football, and that was asked of you.
drinking is fun sorry hunter
[QUOTE=jiggu;42612277]I'd love to see a single teen that enjoys alcohol for the taste. You don't go have a nice drink at a bar then come home maybe slightly tipsy. You drink 'til you're drunk, that's it. That's what everybody does. Not until you grow older and start enjoying wine/whiskey you'll actually drink for the taste instead of just trying to get drunk, but no teen ever drinks for the taste, they drink to get drunk. Don't fool yourself.[/QUOTE] That's silly, I know plenty of teenagers (including myself) that have a pint whilst watching the football or whilst socialising. Contrary to your unfounded claims, there are responsible teens who do drink for the taste.
I didn't get invited to many parties so teenagers going to war is p. cool but getting drunk is the worst thing ever.
[QUOTE=deadoon;42612260]The whole thing you are ignoring about being an adult with responsibilities, but not being considered responsible enough to drink alcohol? dammit, edit isn't working on my other post, and I got my auto-merge broken.[/QUOTE] lol seriously stop bringing up enlistment age, it's not fucking relevant in the [i]slightest[/i]. When you join the military, you're not guaranteed a frontline infantry position. You may be someone who fixes and maintains vehicles 500 miles away from any combat, you might be put in a position to supply humanitarian aid, or be sent to a base in a 1st world country like Germany or Japan, or you may be sent to Afghanistan to kick down the doors of mud huts and get shot at by child soldiers. Thats a whole lot fucking different than drinking alcohol bud. The 2 are absolutely incomparable.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42612315]You're trying to refute my point with nothing but your opinion. I sincerely apologize for asking you to support it.[/QUOTE] Your sources do not substantiate your claim, until you have a valid source your claim has no backing. I was stating that. But due to you being so entrenched in your position and not even verifying your supposed sources it is all to easy to discredit your claim. I asked you for the logic behind having the drinking age at 21 rather than at the age you become an adult at 18. You have brought up nothing that supports your own stance substantially. Your own sources conclude with more information needed and you are backpedaling. Based on these graphs, you'd think denmark would have a whole lot more problems with underage drinking than the us does. [URL]http://www.mdt.mt.gov/safety/docs/taskforces/ojjdp_feb01.pdf[/URL] They have no restrictions so far as I have found, but their actual problems with drinking are nowhere near the levels that the US reports at having. [URL]http://www.brewersofeurope.org/docs/publications/BI_DrinkDriveRpt07_4.pdf[/URL] 112 deaths from drunk driving in 2007 with a population of ~5,461,000 means ~ 20 per million people. Compared to the us: [URL]http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811016.PDF[/URL] 12,998 deaths from drunk driving in 2007 with a population of ~301,580 means ~ 43 per million people. Nearly double in this case. The US just has a bad culture surrounding alcohol usage, that is the reason we have so many problems. Finding statistics about purely under 21 but greater than 18 requires a whole lot of actual field research. Also, it isn't about proving your opponent wrong when you make a claim, it is about proving yourself right. If your opponent can discredit your claims, they are thrown out. You have had no evidence that is substantial. [QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42612441]lol seriously stop bringing up enlistment age, it's not fucking relevant in the [I]slightest[/I]. When you join the military, you're not guaranteed a frontline infantry position. You may be someone who fixes and maintains vehicles 500 miles away from any combat, you might be put in a position to supply humanitarian aid, or be sent to a base in a 1st world country like Germany or Japan, or you may be sent to Afghanistan to kick down the doors of mud huts and get shot at by child soldiers. Thats a whole lot fucking different than drinking alcohol bud. The 2 are absolutely incomparable.[/QUOTE] In that post, I had said nothing about enlistment age. The reason I use the age of 18, which is the age you have to be to enlist without permission, is due to that is the age you become an adult. If you get a job and pay taxes to the government before 21, despite being a functional citizen, you still cannot drink for some unknown reason. How about getting a job and paying taxes, after all, that is what one perspective of the military is.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;42611202]Who cares, the alcohol laws in the US are fucked up. The fact that she had to lie about it in the first place is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Certain laws of ours are keyed off 'morals'. This is why for example you can show extreme violence on nonpay television, but not sex or nudity. Naked people=immoral, sex=immoral outside marriage...killing someone? He had it coming. Drinking alcohol is seen as immoral by a large portion of our people. Allowing 'kids' to drink makes it even more immoral in their eyes. Remember, this country is so uptight that a constitutional amendment was passed banning alcohol entirely! This is slowly changing. That's why people even talk openly of legalizing pot now. The most uptight people are dying off and being replaced by reasonable and modern thinking younger people. Once the baby boomer generation is dead this is going to be one big party animal of a country.
[QUOTE=deadoon;42612593]In that post, I had said nothing about enlistment age. The reason I use the age of 18, which is the age you have to be to enlist without permission, is due to that is the age you become an adult. If you get a job and pay taxes to the government before 21, despite being a functional citizen, you still cannot drink for some unknown reason. How about getting a job and paying taxes, after all, that is what one perspective of the military is.[/QUOTE] Between the ages of 16-20 is a pretty critical time in a persons life. You are deciding who and what you are going to be in the future and what career you are going to choose. The decisions you make then will affect you for the rest of your life. Joining the military is one of those decision, whether it be to pursue a career in the military or find direction in life and gain funding for a college education. I don't think it's wise to let people be at that age be under the influence of a drug that can damage and inhibit their ability to make logical and wise decisions.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42612783]Between the ages of 16-20 is a pretty critical time in a persons life. You are deciding who and what you are going to be in the future and what career you are going to choose. The decisions you make then will affect you for the rest of your life. Joining the military is one of those decision, whether it be to pursue a career in the military or find direction in life and gain funding for a college education. I don't think it's wise to let people be at that age be under the influence of a drug that can damage and inhibit their ability to make logical and wise decisions.[/QUOTE] do you honestly think 16-20 year olds don't drink because it's against the law? they are already doing it en masse and thousands of kids die from alcohol poisoning or drunk driving every year. the law needs reforms. not to mention, so what? if you can decide your career and your future, you can decide if you want to drink.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42611605]Go ahead, lower the drinking age then. Watch the amount of teen deaths to drunk driving skyrocket some more. Just because people think they were responsible enough to handle alcohol as teenagers doesn't mean everybody is.[/QUOTE] You mean like they did in Europe, where Drinking ages range from whenever you can see over the counter to 18, or Canada where it's either 18 or 19, depending on Province? Oh wait, they didn't, that's right.
[QUOTE=jiggu;42612277]I'd love to see a single teen that enjoys alcohol for the taste. You don't go have a nice drink at a bar then come home maybe slightly tipsy. You drink 'til you're drunk, that's it. That's what everybody does. Not until you grow older and start enjoying wine/whiskey you'll actually drink for the taste instead of just trying to get drunk, but no teen ever drinks for the taste, they drink to get drunk. Don't fool yourself.[/QUOTE] I always had a taste for wine and beer, and I started tasting sips when my parents allowed me to. Which was about age 10 or that alike. I've been drinking at parties since 15, and I've never enjoyed that kind of pseudo alcohol that doesn't taste like alcohol - breezers and whatnot. I basically only drink beer and wine, and the occasional shot of something stronger. Sometimes to get drunk, most of the time simply because I like the taste and it's relaxing. Most of my friends are the same. Being introduced to alcohol at an early age by your parents is better than being introduced to it much later, by irresponsible people. It also makes you connect alcohol with dinner and cozy afternoons, not just parties where you get shitfaced.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;42612929]You mean like they did in Europe, where Drinking ages range from whenever you can see over the counter to 18, or Canada where it's either 18 or 19, depending on Province? Oh wait, they didn't, that's right.[/QUOTE] Its 18 in Alberta, Canada and I'm a little on the fence with whether that is too high as it is. I started drinking at 17 (24 now) and wasn't interested before that but the law has never stopped any teens from getting it anyways, there are always kids near the liquor store and people boot for them nobody gives a shit, and I can't say I do either to a point. Its kind of a blurry line when its too young, not everyone is the same and despite what your mommy and the schools told you, some kids aren't all that special and quite frankly they have a few too many screws loose and age isn't fixing that. I'd say 18 is perfect with parental consent for those below 18. A parent should be able to know if their teens are mature enough, Nanny Government shouldn't be involved. [QUOTE=FinalHunter;42611894]There isn't any positive outcome to drinking at 18, at least with joining the military you're doing something useful and worthwhile. And I never said I agreed with being able to enlist at 18. This is like a roundabout way of trying to say the drinking age is stupid when they're completely different subjects.[/QUOTE] Drinking not being useful or worthwhile its an opinion. I'd say it helped me quite a lot with my social life and in turn my mental health as a shy introvert. its pretty important to be sociable for the line of work I'm in and I had to build these skills as I didn't have them naturally. That is my opinion and experience. Neither of our opinions apply to EVERYONE. We're not talking about drinking age and military age as SEPARATE subjects, we're RELATING them if you can wrap your head around what people are trying to explain to you over and over. You can preach your bad sources and talk about how bad heavy drinking is for you and how teens must all do it without any facts or sources to back up that claim. You clearly have no experience. A few drinks or even 3 or 5 beers depending on how big a guy you are isn't heavy drinking. You know how many times I drank heavily as a teen? Once. Why? Well bud when you drink too much its not fun, not pleasant, not the goal, and you get sick. You learn your limits and learn that too much is way too much pretty quick. The phase of SEVERE judgement impairment/getting dizzy/throwing up as heavy drinking is described is not anything anyone WANTS let alone frequently and constantly to the point you get brain damage and if a person DOES want to reach that point, there is something wrong with them and a person into self-harming isn't paying attention to laws or their well being anyhow. I mean lets say 18 year old Timmy joins the Military as the government says he is of age and his family is supportive and gives him the go ahead along with whatever else gives him the idea. Then he goes and gets his legs blown off and has seen his squad massacred. He gets home half a year later all fucked up, and he is told he can't drink yet because he isn't mature enough despite being an adult who was deemed to be mature enough to possibly go through that yet can't have a beer because you think everyone will jump into motorized vehicles at 16-20 or whatever you are legally of age to drive deemed mature enough to travel at 110 km/hr in a 2 ton metal machine and drunk drive home despite THAT being illegal and for good reason. I don't know about you but even when I went to school in the 90's I had don't drink and drive pounded into my head all the way from elementary school, maybe you didn't and in that case this isn't a problem to be solved by laws its a problem to be solved with EDUCATION. Keep in mind I'm talking about people who are classified as ADULTS/of voting age/military eligible. yet can't drink. The point is despite the drinking age being lower in many many other countries without issue you think the Prohibition era 21 years old law is fine and doesn't need to be reviewed. You seem to have a pretty limited and narrow view as well as no experience with alcohol.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42611894]There isn't any positive outcome to drinking at 18, at least with joining the military you're doing something useful and worthwhile. [/QUOTE] Can't you go hunting before you're 18 in most(?) states? Are you only allowed to hunt if you're gonna use the animals to feed your family, since that's "useful and worthwhile"? Or can you do it recreationally? Because as far as I'm concerned, the government doesn't have age limits based on how useful that activity is gonna be
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;42613792]Can't you go hunting before you're 18 in most(?) states? Are you only allowed to hunt if you're gonna use the animals to feed your family, since that's "useful and worthwhile"? Or can you do it recreationally? Because as far as I'm concerned, the government doesn't have age limits based on how useful that activity is gonna be[/QUOTE] Iunno about the US, but in Canada (Ontario) you can hunt when you're 15, you just have to borrow the gun from someone since you can't own your own until 18. You can also join the army here at like 16/17 with parental consent.
I'd lie too, shit like this happens all the time. A football team we played lost 12 starting players because a party they were at got busted, and as a resulted sucked dick that year. So fucking what if so kids have some alcohol?
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;42611462]The girl in question was drunk. I'd call that heavy drinking for someone that isn't even 21 years of age. Jesus christ, how can you even dumb my post? How can you condone underage drinking when there is undeniable proof that it WILL damage brain development? If she's getting shitfaced at some party, chances are this isn't the first time. All these people who think "oh it's okay to just get drunk on weekends" are retarded.[/QUOTE] Being drunk and heavy drinking are two very completely different things. A binge night a year isn't heavy drinking either. Heavy drinking is longterm systematic heavy drinking.
[QUOTE=Ishwoo;42611911]We and pretty much the rest of Europe cope with it absolutely fine, why is it such a problem in the US?[/QUOTE] It goes back to the influence of the puritanical temperance leagues that dominated US politics during the early 20th century. They had pretty sizable followings in some of the major Protestant denominations, which at the time (more so than today) were obsessed with punishing sin in all it's forms. The most visible of sins at the time were rampant alcohol and drug abuse, gambling addiction, in addition to prostitution in the cities and some of the larger towns. While hardly new phenomena, they had skyrocketed due to changing social conditions, and so were the most visible. This attitude has mostly dissipated by now, though we haven't entirely left it behind.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;42613916]You can also join the army here at like 16/17 with parental consent.[/QUOTE] 16 with consent, and if I remember correctly you can't actually join the active force at 16, just the reserves. But God forbid you want a beer
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42614134]16 with consent, and if I remember correctly you can't actually join the active force at 16, just the reserves. But God forbid you want a beer[/QUOTE] If I remember correctly, they were talking about letting anyone with a military ID purchase alcohol regardless of age, but I didn't hear how that turned out.
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