Cologne cops defend use of racial profiling on New Year's Eve, Chief praises its success - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Paramud;51612297]I'm relatively certain the criticism is not over police attempting to protect citizens but rather for the fact that they're utilizing racial profiling. It doesn't matter if it's effective and it doesn't matter if no one here is providing you with an alternative, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It'd probably be very effective to lock everyone from specific countries or racial backgrounds in internment camps, that doesn't justify it, same as it didn't justify the wrongful imprisonment of Japanese-, German-, and Italian-Americans in WW2. I truly can not understand the lengths you have to go through mentally to justify this kind of thing when this same logic produced such horrendous acts less than 75 years ago.[/QUOTE] Only 27 people got arrested out of the few hundred stopped. Quit trying to be overly dramatic, they didn't imprison an entire population. Which I'm glad you pointed that because if any country in the world knows the damage internment camps do Germany would be the country that knows.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51613961]You should watch Dirty Harry[/QUOTE] And the point you try to make is?

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51613957]Yes it does, the outcome was a success in terms of lot's of people never got raped.[/QUOTE] We should actually lock up all immigrants tbh, we'd be getting rid of a lot of crime. I don't really see how you can be in favour of not getting rid of crime. [editline]2nd January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51614002]And the point you try to make is?[/QUOTE] He's making the point that only looking at the (positive part of) end result is just dumb when deciding whether an action was good or bad. You have to weigh the negatives against the positives, and I guess Code3Response has some kind of integrity as a police officer.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51613896]I'm not going to argue with you anymore. You want to support racial profiling go ahead. In law enforcement that's lazy work. There are better and more innovative ways to combat things than taking the easy way out like they did here.[/QUOTE] Why should they waste lots of effort, money, and man power on less effective policy? Because 'stopping' groups of people due to the statistical fact that they're more likely to attack someone makes you feel offended? No one's advocating genocide or anything here, the police have limited resources, so when they're stretched to their limit they have to prioritize effectiveness over feelings. If it prevented even a single attack without harming a single innocent minority I don't see how it's so controversial.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51614067]We should actually lock up all immigrants tbh, we'd be getting rid of a lot of crime. I don't really see how you can be in favour of not getting rid of crime.[/QUOTE] Well, locking up criminal immigrants and illegal immigrants would definitely cause a lot of less crime. As well as deportation of said immigrants.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51613961]You should watch Dirty Harry[/QUOTE] You mean the movie where the chef of police lets a rapist and a murderer off the chains because Harry didn't bring him in cleanly enough, so that said rapist goes on to rape and murder more innocent kids if Harry didn't intervene at the end?

This is a difficult issue for me. I feel like in an ideal world, profiling is just directing police resources in the most efficient way. If one category of people is more likely to be engaging in criminal activity, it's logical to investigate that group before others, assuming they are all equally suspicious. For example, I'm reasonably certain that 18-24 year olds commit more crime than 60-80 year olds. If a police officer had to choose between checking a group of 18-24 year olds and a group of 60-80 year olds, I think it's reasonable that they would check the younger people. The problem is that while this might work in an ideal world where people are robots, we don't live in that world. When you tell police to target a certain group of people, it creates an adversarial relationship between the police and that group. And that relationship can easily build over time and create more problems than the profiling solved to begin with. The thing about airports is that people traveling through airports aren't a settled community. Airport security in Israel targeting people from Syria isn't going to have the same effect as police in Cologne targeting North African people in Cologne. A Syrian person only has to be in the airport for a day. The people of Cologne and the Police of Cologne are going to be living with each other for their whole lives. I won't disagree that at least in theory, this sort of action is effective in the short term. The question is, will it actually help reduce crime in the long term. And I think when you look at instances of this sort of policy being instituted elsewhere, the answer is generally "no".

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51613940]So terrorism in Ireland would have been less if there were no border searches and no stop and search?[/QUOTE] There would have been less terrorism if there wasn't discrimination against Catholics and innocent Irish people weren't targetted because of their religion or the fact they support nationalism. The British army at the start of the Troubles were seen as [I]heroes[/I] by many Catholics in the North [I]until[/I] the government started abusing their power and searching people without warrant and for slim and flimsy reasons. That gave a ton of support to the IRA. As for border searches: I'm not sure their impact, but they certainly made trade between the two parts of the island harder, making relations worse.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51614067]We should actually lock up all immigrants tbh, we'd be getting rid of a lot of crime. I don't really see how you can be in favour of not getting rid of crime. [/QUOTE] Where did I suggest I wasn't in favour of getting rid of crime? this response bears very little substance as a reply to my comment. [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51614067] He's making the point that only looking at the (positive part of) end result is just dumb when deciding whether an action was good or bad. You have to weigh the negatives against the positives, and I guess Code3Response has some kind of integrity as a police officer.[/QUOTE] Well done for translating another persons shitposting into something with a valid point. So in the process of investigating a serious crime some people get arrested when they are entirely innocent, does this mean we should stop investigating crimes because of the collateral damage? No of course not. As I previously stated, anyone with an ounce of decency or empathy would not be too bothered about the way the police went about their business when it actually prevented a lot of rape. The positives far outweigh the negatives. People need to stop protesting on behalf of others who might not have an issue with it at all.

im glad that the racial profiling was a rousing success. it proved to be so effective, that we have no reason to never not use it. these subhuman swine keep raping and murdering innocent whites. new years eve was a perfect test bed for this, so now we have hard proof that it just works so its fine to go ahead and make europe even safer. so, what i say we do is, i say we set up nice little camps for all the brown people. take all of them, separate them from the whites, and put them to work in these nice camps so that they can finally be productive members of society. cant really risk releasing them back to their own countries because time and time again weve proven that all the brown people wanna do is hurt our white women so that option is a no-go. we also know that groups of brown people are very dangerous, as per the new years experiment for the solution to the brown question. so in these camps we should institute a policy of not allowing any brown people to commune in groups larger than three. its for the safety of the true europeans and we know for a fact that this works so dont you fucking dare try to question me. if you want my fucking family to get raped by some fucking brownies you can just shut the fuck up you piece of shit thank you for your time and make europe great again [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Novangel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51614177]This is a difficult issue for me. I feel like in an ideal world, profiling is just directing police resources in the most efficient way. If one category of people is more likely to be engaging in criminal activity, it's logical to investigate that group before others, assuming they are all equally suspicious. For example, I'm reasonably certain that 18-24 year olds commit more crime than 60-80 year olds. If a police officer had to choose between checking a group of 18-24 year olds and a group of 60-80 year olds, I think it's reasonable that they would check the younger people. The problem is that while this might work in an ideal world where people are robots, we don't live in that world. When you tell police to target a certain group of people, it creates an adversarial relationship between the police and that group. And that relationship can easily build over time and create more problems than the profiling solved to begin with. The thing about airports is that people traveling through airports aren't a settled community. Airport security in Israel targeting people from Syria isn't going to have the same effect as police in Cologne targeting North African people in Cologne. A Syrian person only has to be in the airport for a day. The people of Cologne and the Police of Cologne are going to be living with each other for their whole lives. I won't disagree that at least in theory, this sort of action is effective in the short term. The question is, will it actually help reduce crime in the long term. And I think when you look at instances of this sort of policy being instituted elsewhere, the answer is generally "no".[/QUOTE] Does the info that the police made people walk through two seperate gateways depending on their "first impression" which resulted in mostly dark skinned people walking through the "to be controled" gate help you decide? [url]http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Wer-feiern-darf-und-wer-nicht-article19445146.html[/url] [editline]2nd January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51614271]im glad that the racial profiling was a rousing success. it proved to be so effective, that we have no reason to never not use it. these subhuman swine keep raping and murdering innocent whites. new years eve was a perfect test bed for this, so now we have hard proof that it just works so its fine to go ahead and make europe even safer. so, what i say we do is, i say we set up nice little camps for all the brown people. take all of them, separate them from the whites, and put them to work in these nice camps so that they can finally be productive members of society. cant really risk releasing them back to their own countries because time and time again weve proven that all the brown people wanna do is hurt our white women so that option is a no-go. we also know that groups of brown people are very dangerous, as per the new years experiment for the solution to the brown question. so in these camps we should institute a policy of not allowing any brown people to commune in groups larger than three. its for the safety of the true europeans and we know for a fact that this works so dont you fucking dare try to question me. if you want my fucking family to get raped by some fucking brownies you can just shut the fuck up you piece of shit thank you for your time and make europe great again[/QUOTE] We should preemptively search the PCs and houses of all Priests too, many cases of child abuse will be prevented.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51614204]There would have been less terrorism if there wasn't discrimination against Catholics and innocent Irish people weren't targetted because of their religion or the fact they support nationalism. The British army at the start of the Troubles were seen as [I]heroes[/I] by many Catholics in the North [I]until[/I] the government started abusing their power and searching people without warrant and for slim and flimsy reasons. That gave a ton of support to the IRA. As for border searches: I'm not sure their impact, but they certainly made trade between the two parts of the island harder, making relations worse.[/QUOTE] Terrorism in its broadest sense has existed for a quite a while, certainly long enough for there to be some ways of dealing with it effectively, if possible. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away probably isn't an effective way of dealing with it, as long as it exists someone is going to be offended by the measures taken to deal with it, much the same as dealing with cultures from Islamic countries when they clash with western culture. Again the problem exists and the authorities that have to deal with it the best way they can at the time. This won't sit well with people but it's certainly better than not doing anything. Most of the people here haven't actually offered any decent alternatives but even if they think they have I'm convinced that the authorities involved have considered all of the other solutions.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51614271]im glad that the racial profiling was a rousing success. it proved to be so effective, that we have no reason to never not use it. these subhuman swine keep raping and murdering innocent whites. new years eve was a perfect test bed for this, so now we have hard proof that it just works so its fine to go ahead and make europe even safer. so, what i say we do is, i say we set up nice little camps for all the brown people. take all of them, separate them from the whites, and put them to work in these nice camps so that they can finally be productive members of society. cant really risk releasing them back to their own countries because time and time again weve proven that all the brown people wanna do is hurt our white women so that option is a no-go. we also know that groups of brown people are very dangerous, as per the new years experiment for the solution to the brown question. so in these camps we should institute a policy of not allowing any brown people to commune in groups larger than three. its for the safety of the true europeans and we know for a fact that this works so dont you fucking dare try to question me. if you want my fucking family to get raped by some fucking brownies you can just shut the fuck up you piece of shit thank you for your time and make europe great again[/QUOTE] You have some problems. Edit well written satire

To get back to normal posting, do you guys not find it worrying that a minority can arbitrarily be subjected to governmental actions just based on the fact that they are part of the minority? What would you say if we subject every gay person to an AIDS test? After all, gay people have a higher rate of AIDS. You don't need to answer, the point is that this is collective prejudgement and our societies and "western values" are -among others- based on laws that should prevent democracy from doing exactly that. How do you think are the hundreds of people that are subjected to the searches feeling? YOu call for people to integate yet you support practices like this that cause nothing but divide and tension.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51614375]You have some problems.[/QUOTE] No, it's just very well-written satire.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;51614375]You have some problems.[/QUOTE] It's a joke post

[QUOTE=Overhauser;51614380]To get back to normal posting, do you guys not find it worrying that a minority can arbitrarily be subjected to governmental actions just based on the fact that they are part of the minority? What would you say if we subject every gay person to an AIDS test? After all, gay people have a higher rate of AIDS. You don't need to answer, the point is that this is collective prejudgement and our societies and "western values" are -among others- based on laws that should prevent democracy from doing exactly that. How do you think are the hundreds of people that are subjected to the searches feeling? YOu call for people to integate yet you support practices like this that cause nothing but divide and tension.[/QUOTE] If there was a right wing march planned in east London, the police would be looking to subdue middle aged men with beer bellies and crew cuts wearing union jack t-shirts not asian looking guys in turbans or old ladies in knitted cardigans, it's called sensible policing. Policing goes beyond race, colour creed.

[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;51614392]It's a joke post[/QUOTE] Jokes usually have a punchline. [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51614362]Terrorism in its broadest sense has existed for a quite a while, certainly long enough for there to be some ways of dealing with it effectively, if possible. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away probably isn't an effective way of dealing with it, as long as it exists someone is going to be offended by the measures taken to deal with it, much the same as dealing with cultures from Islamic countries when they clash with western culture. Again the problem exists and the authorities that have to deal with it the best way they can at the time. This won't sit well with people but it's certainly better than not doing anything. Most of the people here haven't actually offered any decent alternatives but even if they think they have I'm convinced that the authorities involved have considered all of the other solutions.[/QUOTE] the "decent alternative" is to not use racial profiling at all??? Defending racial profiling is fucking disgusting imo and I think a lot of people here would have a radically different opinion if they were the ones being targetted by it. It flies in the face of due process, and damages trust between minority communities and the police. Racial profiling has never been a positive process and to pretend it is, is blindly ignorant to history and even current events. There's also little evidence to show that it has an actual impact on the success of the police, in fact it can make them less effective as they may neglect to search others who don't fit their profile. There has been extensive attention paid to how profiling creates blind spots in security, which some groups have, and will maliciously exploit. [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51614403]If there was a right wing march planned in east London, the police would be looking to subdue middle aged men with beer bellies and crew cuts wearing union jack t-shirts not asian looking guys in turbans or old ladies in knitted cardigans, it's called sensible policing. Policing goes beyond race, colour creed.[/QUOTE] this actually never happens though so??? right wing marches usually are announced ahead of time, are very clearly signposted by lots of English flags, and occasionally break into violence there's nothing pre-emptive about this, and it's completely different to active racial profiling being discussed here

[QUOTE=Overhauser;51614380]To get back to normal posting, do you guys not find it worrying that a minority can arbitrarily be subjected to governmental actions just based on the fact that they are part of the minority? What would you say if we subject every gay person to an AIDS test? After all, gay people have a higher rate of AIDS. You don't need to answer, the point is that this is collective prejudgement and our societies and "western values" are -among others- based on laws that should prevent democracy from doing exactly that. How do you think are the hundreds of people that are subjected to the searches feeling? YOu call for people to integate yet you support practices like this that cause nothing but divide and tension.[/QUOTE] And if these actions weren't in place, hundreds of women would've been raped. Just like last year, when they weren't racially profiling. [editline]2nd January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Streecer;51614421] There's also little evidence to show that it has an actual impact on the success of the police, in fact it can make them less effective as they may neglect to search others who don't fit their profile. There has been extensive attention paid to how profiling creates blind spots in security, which some groups have, and will maliciously exploit. [/QUOTE] How many sexual assaults happened this year with racial profiling in place? How many happened last year without racial profiling in place?

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;51614434]And if these actions weren't in place, hundreds of women would've been raped. Just like last year, when they weren't racially profiling.[/QUOTE] The police presence was also ten times less, though.

here's a question to the people defending racial profiling: what is your opinion of white guilt?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51614506]here's a question to the people defending racial profiling: what is your opinion of white guilt?[/QUOTE] Oh lord where are you going with this?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51614506]here's a question to the people defending racial profiling: what is your opinion of white guilt?[/QUOTE] What does white guilt have to do with this? It's not even remotely comparable.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51614566]Oh lord where are you going with this?[/QUOTE] Trying to get an honest response out of someone who apparently can't give a straight answer as to why racial profiling is bad

[QUOTE=Tudd;51614566]Oh lord where are you going with this?[/QUOTE] i see you still haven't got around to understanding how a question works

[QUOTE=Phycosymo;51614580]Trying to get an honest response out of someone who apparently can't give a straight answer as to why racial profiling is bad[/QUOTE] Holy shit some of you are absolutely bonkers on how you view this debate going. Btw since you edited it out right when I was commenting. You accused me of playing victim on this thread and you should be ashamed you think I am remotely doing that. [editline]2nd January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51614591]i see you still haven't got around to understanding how a question works[/QUOTE] No, I think the question seems utterly pointless cause I see no relevance to the concept of white guilt and this situation.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51614594]Holy shit some of you are absolutely bonkers on how you view this debate going.[/QUOTE] Keep dodging, it'll let you feel more self-pity [QUOTE=Tudd;51614617]I actually think this is one of the better debates, and it looks like the other side having run out of worthy alternatives or retorts is now throwing these awkward deathblows about me somehow wallowing in anguish.[/QUOTE] Because you've NEVER done that, at all. It's like as if nimbly navigating around people's arguments frustrates people!

[QUOTE=Phycosymo;51614602]Keep dodging, it'll let you feel more self-pity[/QUOTE] I actually think this is one of the better debates, and it looks like the other side having run out of worthy alternatives or retorts is now throwing these awkward deathblows about me somehow wallowing in anguish.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51614617]I actually think this is one of the better debates, and it looks like the other side having run out of worthy alternatives or retorts is now throwing these awkward deathblows about me somehow wallowing in anguish.[/QUOTE] OR you aren't answering zuk's question

[QUOTE=KillRay;51614620]OR you aren't answering zuk's question[/QUOTE] Explain why white guilt has any relevance to this conversation. It's a fair question on my end.