Woman expelled from social club after incident in ladies toilets - Polidicks

"I'm not a homophobe, but..."

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42659360]Its not like she pulled out a gun or a knife and started threatening to off herself or swung madly at those around her. Because its a singular act in which no one was hurt? Did she bang her head against the President's favorite toilet wall?[/QUOTE] I cannot recall the last time I would have seen a grown adult hit their head against the wall. And in these sorts of situations it would be more about protecting everyone, it is likely that if she injures herself whilst hitting her head against the wall she could try and sue the club.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42659392]Most importantly if you want to hear reasoning it would be important to attend the hearing at which such a decision is made. Refusing to attend the hearing and then claiming you are being discriminated against is a bit ridiculous.[/QUOTE] well it's not like they'd admit they did it because she's transgender, they had their reason (she hit her head on the wall) i'm just saying i believe (from what she's said has been the clubs actions/attitudes in the past) that they cited that reason for a easy way to get rid of her. she should have gone to the meeting though i agree, they probably would have talked it out and she wouldn't even get kicked out (if the club was not transphobic)

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42659392]Most importantly if you want to hear reasoning it would be important to attend the hearing at which such a decision is made. Refusing to attend the hearing and then claiming you are being discriminated against is a bit ridiculous.[/QUOTE] This. Why would it be discrimination when she didn't attend?

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;42659408]Nothing wrong with standing up for minorities when someone has actually done something wrong. but this is a few problems short of a genocide[/QUOTE]Is genocide the only situation when it is ok to support a minority? And I'm speaking in general since Faz is clearly crossing over from the argument in the other thread about Transgenderism. [quote]also whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty" did it go away when a trans person is the one pointing fingers?[/QUOTE]Considering I haven't said that they are discriminating against her for being trans, you don't really have a point. Literally my first post in the thread said "Too many unknowns, can't tell who is right here." [editline]26th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=alexguydude;42659426]This. Why would it be discrimination when she didn't attend?[/QUOTE]She wasn't legally obligated to attend, and plenty of people refuse things like this out of protest. [editline]26th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=nigerianprince;42659423]I cannot recall the last time I would have seen a grown adult hit their head against the wall.[/QUOTE]Pretty often. Its not an exceptionally rare occurrence for someone who is exceptionally stressed to bang their head against a wall or desk or the like as a brief release or coping mechanism. [QUOTE]And in these sorts of situations it would be more about protecting everyone, it is likely that if she injures herself whilst hitting her head against the wall she could try and sue the club.[/QUOTE]How much have you been reading things like Fox and the Daily Mail?

so i just looked at this part again [quote] he was also accused of collapsing on her seat and floor and hitting her head off the wall of the loo. Hinoi denies swearing but admitted being distressed and hitting the wall. She said: “I admit nutting my head off the wall in the ladies toilet hoping it would cause enough damage that I would not come around. “I know it was the wrong way to deal with it but I was desperate."[/quote] she literally just said she attempted suicide from all the transphobia she was receiving. again, this is just her word, but i really doubt someone from a group of people with an incredibly high rate of discrimination and suicide hits their head on the wall hard enough to knock themselves out just to sue a club after already complaining about discrimination in the first place.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;42659453]you basically just refuted every single one of your own points so if this was an argument its basically over[/quote]How? [quote]also to people saying abassi is shitposting, he's being entirely reasonable and is actually citing proper use of terms, stop flinging shit just because he has a different opinion on the situation.[/QUOTE]Who is abassi?

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42659436]She wasn't legally obligated to attend, and plenty of people refuse things like this out of protest. [/QUOTE] Yes but by not attending she willingly refused to hear the reason for her being excluded from the club. And rather than wait for the club to mail her the reason (which is said in the end of the article) she has approached the news media. To be fair, the article both claims that the letter had already been sent and that it was being sent so its a little hard to determine exactly what is going on.

If she was actually harassed for being trans* then that sucks and she has no right to be treated like that but starting a fight in a bathroom because of it isn't really a good idea and starting fights in places usually gets people kicked out

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;42659453]also to people saying abassi is shitposting, he's being entirely reasonable and is actually citing proper use of terms, stop flinging shit just because he has a different opinion on the situation.[/QUOTE] assuming abassi is nigerianprince, he's refuted in the face of multiple factual papers and medical studies things about transgender people just to play devils advocate. he's had multiple bans about this shit yes, its shitposting, it's blatantly obvious why he of all people posted this article.

[QUOTE=Paige;42659457]so i just looked at this part again she literally just said she attempted suicide from all the transphobia she was receiving. again, this is just her word, but i really doubt someone from a group of people with an incredibly high rate of discrimination and suicide hits their head on the wall hard enough to knock themselves out just to sue a club after already complaining about discrimination in the first place.[/QUOTE] Incorrect. At least from what the article claims she had made no complaint prior to being kicked out for being discriminated. I don't think you'll find many places nowadays that would let people run rampant hitting their head against walls, it is a very real safety issue not to mention probably a huge liability issue.

no duh its a safety issue it was a fucking suicide attempt. and are you reading the same article? she complained about feeling uncomfortable in the club and people saying rude things to her.

[QUOTE=Paige;42659500]no duh its a safety issue it was a fucking suicide attempt. and are you reading the same article? she complained about feeling uncomfortable in the club and people saying rude things to her.[/QUOTE] feeling uncomfortable and making a formal complaint are two separate things.

one would assume if you're feeling uncomfortable and being harassed you'd make a formal complaint i really don't think she's stupid enough to call out the club, not the patrons, but the club itself on transphobia without making a formal complaint about receiving transphobia firsthand.

granted, that is my assumption, and i could be wrong, but i feel the article implies she has complained before and is now being unfairly kicked out at the sign of 1 incident, as opposed to others who can have multiple infractions and be fine.

if she didn't make any complaints about being harassed for being trans then yeah that's kind of her fault, she should have brought that up with the club, and it's another reason she should have gone to that meeting so she could say that her behaviour was due to freaking out over transphobic harassment. cause yeah if the club didn't know anything about it then yeah it could just seem to them like she's a nutjob. if she DID let them know about it they would probably sympathize with her and let her stay in, i mean, they let her into the club in the first place.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;42659545]then if she doesnt want to go through proper channels its her own problem to deal with, the club doesnt have to do shit[/QUOTE] i'm sorry? i just said she more than likely did go through the proper channels to call out the club for transphobia? i don't really understand what you're trying to say here

[IMG]http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2475096.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Hinoi-Tonkin-2475096.jpg[/IMG] this is either the most confusing weight loss before and after pic, or the best post-op Sex reassignment therapy

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;42659576]she refused to go to the meeting holy crap how can i make this more blunt without outright being insulting[/QUOTE] which is on her. it's still on the club to make sure paying(?) members feel welcome and comfortable. even then, if she feels the club is being transphobic and doesn't give a shit, can't really blame her for feeling like a "meeting" wouldn't do shit.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42659318]yes it is a possibility, but i'm not gonna assume that[/QUOTE] Assuming she's right isn't any better. Should wait for more info.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;42659605]and yet calling media attention surely will get her back into the club! she's starting shit over something that could be done privately, like you know, in the meeting that was organized.[/QUOTE] yeah, calling out the club in the media was dumb i agree. it does nothing but make her look like someone angry who cant get over getting kicked out while simultaneously making the club look transphobic. its a loss for both parties.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;42659605]and yet calling media attention surely will get her back into the club! she's starting shit over something that could be done privately, like you know, in the meeting that was organized.[/QUOTE] The plan could be to humiliate the club and force them to let her back in to prevent a reputation hit.

[QUOTE=Paige;42659623]yeah, calling out the club in the media was dumb i agree. it does nothing but make her look like someone angry who cant get over getting kicked out while simultaneously making the club look transphobic. its a loss for both parties.[/QUOTE] The club doesn't look transphobic to any sensible person though.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42659629]The club doesn't look transphobic to any sensible person though.[/QUOTE] you're right, because most "sensible people" aka common people don't give a shit about transpeople in the slightest can you stop? even for a second? you are so fucking frustrating to be around in any thread.

[QUOTE=Paige;42659672]you're right, because most "sensible people" aka common people don't give a shit about transpeople in the slightest can you stop? even for a second? you are so fucking frustrating to be around in any thread.[/QUOTE] I'm more basing it off the article. They gave her the option to present herself at the meeting and instead she didn't go. If the club gave her that chance in the first place I find it hard to believe they are transphobic. There is also a distinction between a club and its members; if individual members had been rude to the lady (and these instances were actually reported) then that doesn't have much to do with the club itself and is more likely the community in which this person lives.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42659706]I'm more basing it off the article. They gave her the option to present herself at the meeting and instead she didn't go. If the club gave her that chance in the first place I find it hard to believe they are transphobic. There is also a distinction between a club and its members; if individual members had been rude to the lady (and these instances were actually reported) then that doesn't have much to do with the club itself and is more likely the community in which this person lives.[/QUOTE] There's also the distinction that she's being banned from the club after much fewer and smaller incidents than a ciswoman would have been banned for. And the possibility that, even if she did report incidents of transphobia from members, the club did nothing. Not doing anything to stop it is just as good as telling them to keep going.

[QUOTE=biodude94566;42659747]There's also the distinction that she's being banned from the club after much fewer and smaller incidents than a ciswoman would have been banned for. And the possibility that, even if she did report incidents of transphobia from members, the club did nothing. Not doing anything to stop it is just as good as telling them to keep going.[/QUOTE] The article doesn't provide enough information to make that assessment. The other women she mentions were drunk, which is to be expected at a venue that serves alcohol to some extent. It doesn't mention any violent or threatening behavior. She went into the bathrooms and hit her head against the wall and allegedly swore at other people there. That would be construed as threatening behavior from a lot of people.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42659768]The article doesn't provide enough information to make that assessment.[/QUOTE] That's true. I'd still say it's a possibility, if only due to how little information we actually have.