• Labour MP blames anti-smacking law for London riots
    138 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34463234]No If you go to jail for hitting an adult just because you don't like what they're doing you should go to jail for an equal or greater period of time for hitting a child for the same reason[/QUOTE] I'm not in favour of corporal punishment but this argument really doesn't hold up. A parent punishing their child and doing the same thing to some other adult are different because a parent has legal responsibility for their child. By your logic any punishment a parent may use against a child is bad since you can't do it to an adult.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463947]People need to learn how to raise their kids to not be brats. The kid needs to know WHY you are punishing him. If you just randomly beat the shit out of the kid that's bad and abuse. When little johnny got home you would tell him the punishment + your reasoning so that he wouldn't do it again.[/QUOTE] Parents who hit their kids do it out of anger/frustration. They don't hit them because they want to teach them that something is bad or good, kids learn right and wrong pretty simply but they like to test their parents resolve. I should know, I baby sit and look after my nephew almost 4 days a week and he's 5 now and I have never laid a hand on him to teach him whats correct and what isn't in behavior. Not only is it a barbaric and crude method of parenting its also lazy and psychologically damaging as child experts agree.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;34464032]I'm not in favour of corporal punishment but this argument really doesn't hold up. A parent punishing their child and doing the same thing to some other adult are different because a parent has legal responsibility for their child. By your logic any punishment a parent may use against a child is bad since you can't do it to an adult.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty certain you can influence and talk to people without breaking the law bro
If my dad tried to smack me, I'd break his hand. :v:
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463883]You're stupid. If the kid beats up a little girl(men don't hit women where I'm from) he needs to be spanked. So your telling me the one and only spanking I've had my entire life was unjustified? No it was actually a turning point were I stopped being a little brat and started to listen to my elders. Again, they need to be moderated but a all-out ban is not necessary it causes the kids to have the power of the house. "I'm gonna fail in school and if you smack me I'll report you!" They need to be able to be able to smack but not bruise in any way possible. wat? I'm done arguing with you, I'm gonna go look at porn and smack myself.[/QUOTE] 50 bucks this guy is from Texas.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463883]I'm done arguing with you, I'm gonna go smack myself.[/QUOTE] You really should after all this.
[QUOTE=Cone;34463994]Does he? I was thinking more of that "lead by example stuff", y'know, that whole reason people are allowed to be parents? The phrase "he sets a bad example for his children" ring any bells? [B]Unless your kid's a little psychopath[/B] and he's grown to resent you (as I would expect anyone who's had their ass slapped repeatedly against their will to), he will have a thing called "empathy". [/QUOTE] That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. No kid should randomly go beat someone up. Like I said I was only spanked once in my life to straight up disobeying my parents for doing something that endangered my life, it was a good turning point in my life [QUOTE=Cone] I'm going to assume I don't have to tell you that it's the cause of that bad feeling you get when you know you've hurt someone (which is why sociopaths are incapable of knowing how much someone has been hurt by their actions). So I'm going to say, at great risk, that you're smart enough to see why that can be manipulated to teach someone wrong from right. Am I correct in saying this? [/QUOTE] Yes, but not everyone gets that feeling, kids may be confused about the feeling aswell and need to be taught, whether it be physical or not. I'm all for ways of teaching a kid without smacking them but there are times like I said in the first post that some kids need to have their ass beat. [QUOTE=Cone] If a kid's failing in school it's because he's either not being taught correctly (by either you or the school) or because the school's doing something wrong. There's a reason for everything, and the prime reason someone may feel resentment towards you (or the school) is because you've held him down and slapped his ass 'till it bruised. I can see why he'd WANT to fail if it means fucking you up. If he [B][I]wants[/I][/B] to fail it's because he hates you and you specifically, and I'm sure that by now you can guess why.[/QUOTE] Stop changing the subject, it was a example. If the kid is purposing doing things and saying "neener neener" to the parents just because he can abuse the law of no smacking. The law is stupid and needs to repelled to a certain extent. Sorry I'm from florida. I just think that there needs to be that fear in the kid growing up(to like age 13) that his parents can give him a spanking.
"We need to teach our kids not to be violent, using violence.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;34464032]I'm not in favour of corporal punishment but this argument really doesn't hold up. A parent punishing their child and doing the same thing to some other adult are different because a parent has legal responsibility for their child. By your logic any punishment a parent may use against a child is bad since you can't do it to an adult.[/QUOTE] You can tell an adult they're wrong and explain why, then teach them to see reason. Why is it okay to teach through overpowering and beating when it's applied to kids? If an adult does something wrong you don't hold them down and beat them, you put them in prison (Child equivalent would be a time out or taking away their toys).
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34464171]That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. No kid should randomly go beat someone up.[/QUOTE] So you're literally operating off the assumption that your kid is mentally damaged? As in, you're thinking that someone should get spanked for a mental disability? Fuck that's so goddamned dumb I don't even know what to say. [QUOTE=The Jackal;34464171]Yes, but not everyone gets that feeling, kids may be confused about the feeling aswell and need to be taught,[/QUOTE] So teach them. There's a little thing known as "guilt". Now, guilt is not a pleasant feeling, so I'm sure you would know the ways I could show someone that what they did was wrong - in this instance, making them consider another person's viewpoint. Will he consider the person who is currently beating the fuck out him's viewpoint? Of course not. But he will consider someone's who's speaking sense, and even if he doesn't he'll consider the person he just hurt's view, unless of course he's mentally unwell (in which case refer to above). [QUOTE=The Jackal;34464171]I'm all for ways of teaching a kid without smacking them but there are times like I said in the first post that some kids need to have their ass beat.[/QUOTE] Yet again, refer to above if you really think that's the only solution to someone who's apprently unwell. [QUOTE=The Jackal;34464171]Stop changing the subject, it was a example. If the kid is purposing doing things and saying "neener neener" to the parents just because he can abuse the law of no smacking.[/QUOTE] You missed the point you idiot. You see, he isn't going to go "neener neener" if you don't give him reason to, y'see? As I've said many times before, all hitting him's gonna do is make him either despise you or fear you. In both cases he'll want to escape as soon as possible from your tyrannical grasp, and rebellion is the only way to do that. So don't force him to rebel by making yourself the most despised figure in his life and beating his ass. Can you put two and two together and see why I would hate you if you started hitting me? I thought so.
[QUOTE=Cone;34464296]So you're literally operating off the assumption that your kid is [B]mentally damaged[/B]? As in, you're thinking that someone should get spanked for a mental disability? Fuck that's so goddamned dumb I don't even know what to say. [/quote] Where did I say that? If the kid is acting psychotic he needs to be taught. And sure beat the retards like you. [QUOTE=Cone] So teach them. There's a little thing known as "guilt". Now, guilt is not a pleasant feeling, so I'm sure you would know the ways I could show someone that what they did was wrong - in this instance, making them consider another person's viewpoint. Will he consider the person who is currently beating the fuck out him's viewpoint? Of course not. But he will consider someone's who's speaking sense, and even if he doesn't he'll consider the person he just hurt's view, unless of course he's mentally unwell (in which case refer to above). [/quote] Again I said smack not "beat the fuck out of him" [QUOTE=Cone] Yet again, refer to above if you really think that's the only solution to someone who's apprently unwell. [/quote] haha but why are you so angry? [QUOTE=Cone] You missed the point you idiot. You see, he isn't going to go "neener neener" if you don't give him reason to, y'see? As I've said many times before, all hitting him's gonna do is make him either despise you or fear you. In both cases he'll want to escape as soon as possible from your tyrannical grasp, and rebellion is the only way to do that. So don't force him to rebel by making yourself the most despised figure in his life and beating his ass. Can you put two and two together and see why I would hate you if you started hitting me? I thought so.[/QUOTE] 0/10 kids need to respect their elders. End of story.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34464566]Where did I say that? If the kid is acting psychotic he needs to be taught. And sure beat the retards like you.[/QUOTE] Okay, so now we're beating people for being stupid AND psychotic. You should totally be in charge of a school or something man! I can see no flaw in your reasoning! "Someone doesn't understand a concept? Better get mah belt!" [QUOTE=The Jackal;34464566]Again I said smack not "beat the fuck out of him"[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=The Jackal;34464171]but there are times like I said in the first post that [B][U]some kids need to have their ass beat.[/B][/U][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=The Jackal;34464566]haha but why are you so angry?[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand how not mad I am [QUOTE=The Jackal;34464566]0/10 kids need to respect their elders. End of story.[/QUOTE] That is the only time you've ever said anything with even a modicum of correctness. I almost thought you weren't braindead for a second there, so I guess you're off to a good start. No, seriously, if you don't understand that I am saying the [I][B]exact same fucking thing,[/B][/I] then I fail to see why I even bother.
And there i thought the labour party was decent...
[QUOTE=Cone;34464648]Okay, so now we're beating people for being stupid AND psychotic. You should totally be in charge of a school or something man! I can see no flaw in your reasoning! "Someone doesn't understand a concept? Better get mah belt!" [/quote] I guess your parents beat you a little to hard. Yes some kids need to have their ass beat, not beating to the sense that they are bruised in any way.(also previously said) [quote=cone] That is the only time you've ever said anything with even a modicum of correctness. I almost thought you weren't braindead for a second there, so I guess you're off to a good start. No, seriously, if you don't understand that I am saying the [I][B]exact same fucking thing,[/B][/I] then I fail to see why I even bother.[/QUOTE] Seem pretty mad to me. Parents need the ability to smack/spank/redden their children. Without that the kid is more likely to abuse certain situations.
[QUOTE=SataniX;34463212]Corporal punishment isn't the answer. Positive reinforcement works far better than over-restriction.[/QUOTE] Positive reinforcement works once children are able to reason. Until then, a shock of some kind is often necessary. Doesn't usually have to be physical... something as simple as a loud sound can often catch a kid's attention, but when a kid keeps making the same mistake a little bit of pain can go a long way to teaching them something is wrong or unsafe. Again, later in life this really should be unnecessary.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34464718]I guess your parents beat you a little to hard. Yes some kids need to have their ass beat, not beating to the sense that they are bruised in any way.(also previously said)[/QUOTE] And you really think you can trust people not to go that far? Don't suppose you'd know how many kids get killed or seriously injured each day because their parents didn't know when to stop, would you? [URL="http://www.childhelp.org/pages/statistics#2"]Five[/URL]. Five kids killed, bro. [QUOTE=The Jackal;34464718]Seem pretty mad to me. Parents need the ability to smack/spank/redden their children. Without that the kid is more likely to abuse certain situations.[/QUOTE] *Citation needed
I know after what happened to me as a kid I'm not going to smack or do anything like that to my children. I can understand it how it may help those select few but why risk making it legal to properly physically discipline when some people may just take it out of hand and end up just hurting their child out of their intentions to "Show them right from wrong" which is probably an incredibly subjective thing.
i'm gonna make sure that you don't join a gang by beating you and making sure you see a connection between power and violence. because obviously it has worked so well. fuck off idiot mp
I'm fine with this. I was spanked as a child and I turned out fine. I didn't end up some spoiled little "GIMME GIMME" fuckstick that thinks he can rule everyone around him with an iron fist and have no consequences to show for it. Was I beaten? No. Hell I only got spanked three times in my entire life. It took quite a lot to get to that point. People, you need to distinguish beatings from spankings. There's nothing wrong with spanking a kid if he royally fucks up. Oh, and no, positive reinforcement doesn't work. All it does is teaches kids they can manipulate you, by simply hiding their wrong actions and magnifying their good ones they can obtain anything they want. [QUOTE=ntzu;34463896]Take away everything that means something to the child and put him in a very strict "house arrest" of sorts.[/quote] And then they sneak out of their room at 12:30 and reclaim their shit. Wake up to find their room exactly as it was before they were grounded. [quote]Also serve the same microwave heated meal every single day of this house arrest.[/quote] Given most kid's diets they won't even notice. It's a bitch and a half to get most kids to eat properly, but hand them pizza rolls or hot pockets and they'll scarf 'em down so fast you'll wonder if part of your finger was included in the meal. [quote]Give him a taste of prison, and if that doesn't straighten him out, hitting wont either.[/QUOTE] Then we'd be pepper spraying them whenever they went belligerent. They'd never be able to socialize...hell you might even end up grooming a career crim, since they'll know best how to function in prison.
[QUOTE=TestECull;34465244]I'm fine with this. I was spanked as a child and I turned out fine. I didn't end up some spoiled little "GIMME GIMME" fuckstick that thinks he can rule everyone around him with an iron fist and have no consequences to show for it.[/QUOTE] Thank you so much for clearing up what I was trying to say. I agree fullheartedly.
As long as it's just a smack I don't see why it should be outright illegal. I remember the few times I've been smacked by my mom or dad. And in retrospect I think I deserved every one of those smacks. And I turned out fine as far as I can tell, and I still have a really good relationship with my parents. If it goes any further than a simple smack though I can see why it should have moral as well as legal implications for the parents. Also I'm not talking about spanking here. Never been spanked in my life. My dad was spanked as a child though.
[QUOTE=TestECull;34465244]Oh, and no, positive reinforcement doesn't work. All it does is teaches kids they can manipulate you, by simply hiding their wrong actions and magnifying their good ones they can obtain anything they want. [/QUOTE] Can I get a source for this please
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34465308]Thank you so much for clearing up what I was trying to say. I agree fullheartedly.[/QUOTE] This isn't going to be the case for every child though. And you're all making the mistake of saying "a spanking will put a child in line every time they mess up." You can't guarantee that each kid will react the same for each punishment.
[QUOTE=TestECull;34465244]I'm fine with this. I was spanked as a child and I turned out fine. I didn't end up some spoiled little "GIMME GIMME" fuckstick that thinks he can rule everyone around him with an iron fist and have no consequences to show for it. [/QUOTE] right because you either hit your childeren or they turn into "fucksticks". i'm also interested to see how you can classify yourself as having "turned out fine". i mean you say you didn't end up as someone who thinks he can rule everyone around him with an iron fist... and then you advocate hitting a child for not doing what you tell them to. fuckstick indeed.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;34465375]This isn't going to be the case for every child though. And you're all making the mistake of saying "a spanking will put a child in line every time they mess up." You can't guarantee that each kid will react the same for each punishment.[/QUOTE] You're right, I beleive it's up to the parents to decide when its necessary to do a spanking, a spanking is a last-resort. You should try everything before resorting to a spanking.
Sounds like more empty turd throwing by the three party dictatorship :)
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34465522]You're right, I beleive it's up to the parents to decide when its necessary to do a spanking, a spanking is a last-resort. You should try everything before resorting to a spanking.[/QUOTE] i believe it's up the kids to decide if they want spankings or not.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34465733]i believe it's up the kids to decide if they want spankings or not.[/QUOTE] but thisispain, then they'll turn into fucksticks and run rampant over adult society!
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34465764]but thisispain, then they'll turn into fucksticks and run rampant over adult society![/QUOTE] thank god we have the excellent parenting advice of facepunch.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34464566]Where did I say that? If the kid is acting psychotic he needs to be taught. And sure beat the retards like you.[/QUOTE] You are such an awful poster. [editline]30th January 2012[/editline] Also I wasn't aware children were somehow exempt from protection from assault.
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