Labour MP blames anti-smacking law for London riots
138 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34465804]You are such an awful poster.
Also I wasn't aware children were somehow exempt from protection from assault.[/QUOTE]
Deal with it. Re-read everything I posted until you agree with me. NOW
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34466171]Deal with it. Re-read everything I posted until you agree with me. NOW[/QUOTE]
please, i've seen 10 year olds with paint on their hands who write more eloquent and thought-out sentences on walls.
you said you've only had one spanking in your life, how the fuck does that qualify you as an expert on the effects of spanking?
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463381]Slaves need to know their place. A slave cant hit a master without consequences(done for THOUSANDS of years) Masters need to be able to smack their slaves, spankings included. I'm not saying soccer punch the lil' fucker in the eyeball but they need to be taught who is the powerhouse. If you don't do this you end up with lazy-ass slaves. And there are some slaves that never need to be smacked because they never act-up.[/QUOTE]
The only point I'm making is "something has been done for thousands of years" is rarely a good argument. The rest I was just having fun with so don't look too deeply into it.
I know damn well that slavery doesn't really relate to corporal punishment and the analogy was made only for that one argument.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463381]Children need to know their place. A kid cant hit a adult without consequences(done for THOUSANDS of years) Adults need to be able to smack their kids, spankings included. I'm not saying soccer punch the lil' fucker in the eyeball but they need to be taught who is the powerhouse. If you don't do this you end up with bratty-ass kids. And there are some kids that never need to be smacked because they never act-up.[/QUOTE]
pffah
10/10 would get trolled again
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34466171]Deal with it. Re-read everything I posted until you agree with me. NOW[/QUOTE]
Ahahaha, that's a laugh riot.
I was spanked/slapped as a kid and I turned out fine. It wasn't like I was punished often though; if I fucked up and did something bad I was punished accordingly. There is a difference between a beating and simple punishment. If anything the embarrassment from a spanking is more effective than how hard you are spanked.
Personally I wouldn't spank my own kids but I won't criticize those who do. Mostly since I was as a child, and it didn't really have a negative effect on me.
I actually hated being grounded more than I did being spanked.
Hitting beyond that though, I would very much have a problem with.
I don't think being hit would really have a negative effect growing up. Keep in mind (in Britain anyway) your parents would have been smacked too, not just by their parents but by teachers as well. Smacking in schools wasn't fully banned until the 80s.
i had the belt and slipper, i use too laugh the pain away which in turn gave me more pain for laughing. people think that disciplining a child with spanking = daliy beatings
why the heart matt.ant? i thank my dad for disciplining me.
-snip-
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34464566]0/10 kids need to respect their elders. End of story.[/QUOTE]
hurting someone doesn't teach them to respect you it teaches them to fear you. 'fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate... to suffering' - yoda, star wars episode 1: the phantom menace
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34464566]0/10 kids need to respect their elders. End of story.[/QUOTE]
If you can't earn the respect of a fucking kid without resorting to terrorism ([URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism"]because that's what coercion via threat of beating is by definition[/URL]), you don't deserve the right to even interact with them.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;34471024]If you can't earn the respect of a fucking kid without resorting to terrorism ([URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism"]because that's what coercion via threat of beating is by definition[/URL]), you don't deserve the right to even interact with them.[/QUOTE]
Oh boo hoo someone smacked a little kid, lots of kids die everyday due to hunger. It's up to the parents to be good parents and know when and when not to spank/smack.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;34469692]hurting someone doesn't teach them to respect you it teaches them to fear you. 'fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate... to suffering' - yoda, star wars episode 1: the phantom menace[/QUOTE]
Yoda isn't very wise in the prequels, so don't quote him in the future. Anger can lead to fear, fear can lead to suffering, and then suffering can lead to hate; etc.
Four completely interchangeable emotional states can’t just be arranged one specific pattern of logic. (Something that George Lucas was apparently unaware of when he was writing the Phantom Menace.)
Anyway, when I was a kid, yelling was a lot more effective on me than spanking was. I hated loud noises. Absolutely hated them.
But then again, there was really ever only one time that I got spanked, and that was when I tied my sister's pigtails to the porch railing because I thought it would be funny.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34471529]Oh boo hoo someone smacked a little kid, lots of kids die everyday due to hunger.[/QUOTE]
is this implying that if kids didn't die everyday due to hunger, smacking would be wrong?
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;34471632]Yoda isn't very wise in the prequels, so don't quote him in the future. Anger can lead to fear, fear can lead to suffering, and then suffering can lead to hate; etc.
Three completely interchangeable emotional states can’t just be arranged one specific pattern of logic. (Something that George Lucas was apparently unaware of when he was writing the Phantom Menace.)
Anyway, when I was a kid, yelling was a lot more effective on me than spanking was. I hated loud noises. Absolutely hated them.
But then again, there was really ever only one time that I got spanked, and that was when I tied my sister's pigtails to the porch railing because I thought it would be funny.[/QUOTE]
hmm, not very wise... yeah that's why they made him de-facto leader of the jedi council huh... lol.
[editline]31st January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34471529]Oh boo hoo someone smacked a little kid, lots of kids die everyday due to hunger. It's up to the parents to be good parents and know when and when not to spank/smack.[/QUOTE]
uh what??? kids die of hunger so child abuse isn't bad?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;34472013]hmm, not very wise... yeah that's why they made him de-facto leader of the jedi council huh... lol.[/QUOTE]
There's only one way to settle this... only one way to show the farce that was the Phantom Menace...
[b]PLINKETT! I SUMMON [i]YOU[/i]![/b]
[url]http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/[/url]
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34471529]It's up to the parents to be good parents and know when and when not to spank/smack.[/QUOTE]
If they do the latter then they're not the former
[editline]30th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;34464742]Positive reinforcement works once children are able to reason. Until then, a shock of some kind is often necessary. Doesn't usually have to be physical... something as simple as a loud sound can often catch a kid's attention, but when a kid keeps making the same mistake a little bit of pain can go a long way to teaching them something is wrong or unsafe.
Again, later in life this really should be unnecessary.[/QUOTE]
If your kid is still in the stage where they're learning reason and you use fear as a method of control, how do you think they're going to turn out when they finally start understanding cause and effect?
Sometimes I wonder if facepunch wants to purposely raise serial killers and then compete to see who can get the highest body count before being caught
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34471529]Oh boo hoo someone smacked a little kid, lots of kids die everyday due to hunger.[/QUOTE]
This just in. Stealing is ok because lots of people get murdered every day.
I belive children should be taught discipline through Pavlovian conditioning: If they misbehave, they don't get any pavlova after dinner.
About discipline: I would just like to say that I believe that not every kid is born as a completely blank template for parents to impart influence on. I think it's partly genetically decided how well they receive and react to outside impulses at early ages. Most kids may react to positive reinforcement in a good way. That doesn't mean every kid gets the same effect from it, as on some it might even work against them and may actually need more traditional forms of discipline. And I'm not talking about terrorizing, beating or even regular spanking.
I find the inaction of parents that are unwilling to discipline their child when they do wrong [B]a lot[/B] worse than giving them an slap on wrist and establishing yourself as the authority to them.
As with others, I have been hit (smacked, not beaten up) and I'm fine - I have a much greater respect for other people than others do. On the other hand, there are many people I know who haven't been disciplined who have turned out to be shits. My parents' friends' son wasn't disciplined well and now he is verbally abusive toward them.
In my eyes, smacking makes sense. It's all about teaching us lessons while we are young and firmly instilling a sense of right and wrong. The brain is built to learn from mistakes and if it associates pain with something (i.e. doing something really wrong like, for example, punching your sister) then it wont do it again. It makes logical sense.
And you can post all the studies you want, but I will only start paying attention to them when I start paying attention to studies which say gaming is bad for us.
[QUOTE=David29;34475427]In my eyes, smacking makes sense. It's all about teaching us lessons while we are young and firmly instilling a sense of right and wrong. The brain is built to learn from mistakes and if it associates pain with something (i.e. doing something really wrong like, for example, punching your sister) then it wont do it again. It makes logical sense.[/QUOTE]
As opposed to non-logical sense?
Anyways, if you're thinking that association is the key here, can't it logically be extended to say that someone might grow to associate their father with pain, and/or that guy who hits them in the ass when they don't want him to?
And, if we're going with association, and accepting that it's a large part of being a parent, don't you think people would rather be associated with being a loving, caring person that doesn't rule through fear?
If administered correctly, physically disciplining children can go a long way towards the betterment of the child.
[QUOTE=David29;34475427]As with others, I have been hit (smacked, not beaten up) and I'm fine - I have a much greater respect for other people than others do. On the other hand, there are many people I know who haven't been disciplined who have turned out to be shits. My parents' friends' son wasn't disciplined well and now he is verbally abusive toward them.
In my eyes, smacking makes sense. It's all about teaching us lessons while we are young and firmly instilling a sense of right and wrong. The brain is built to learn from mistakes and if it associates pain with something (i.e. doing something really wrong like, for example, punching your sister) then it wont do it again. It makes logical sense.
And you can post all the studies you want, but I will only start paying attention to them when I start paying attention to studies which say gaming is bad for us.[/QUOTE]
this is the problem i have with the logic of spanking. you're saying how the brain learns in that way, but human brains are so much more advanced than that. so you're gonna use yourself as an example i'll use myself, my dad sorted me out in that way when i was a youngster, and i still have an underlying resentment for him for doing it, and it certainly didn't make me into some sort of paragon of good behaviour, i got kicked out of school and i still have pretty much no respect for anybody. all of my friends have never had any kind of physical punishment at home and the majority of them are currently in university and even the ones that aren't have steady employment.
[QUOTE=Cone;34475513]Anyways, if you're thinking that association is the key here, can't it logically be extended to say that someone might grow to associate their father with pain, and/or that guy who hits them in the ass when they don't want him to?[/Quote]
Yes. That is a possibility. But considering that a father should only hit a child rarely, and that the majority of the time he does good things for the child, then it is easily off-set.
Besides, by that argument, fathers shouldn't even tell their children off.
[QUOTE=Cone;34475513]And, if we're going with association, and accepting that it's a large part of being a parent, don't you think people would rather be associated with being a loving, caring person that doesn't rule through fear?[/QUOTE]
See above. You are making the dangerous mistake of thinking it would be used as regular punishment, and not as a last resort.
[QUOTE=coolsteve;34475602]If administered correctly, physically disciplining children can go a long way towards the betterment of the child.[/QUOTE]
if administered correctly so does positive reinforcement and non physical discipline. hmm, so both CAN work and one DOESN'T involve hurting a child. i wonder which one is better!
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;34475796]if administered correctly so does positive reinforcement and non physical discipline. hmm, so both CAN work and one DOESN'T involve hurting a child. i wonder which one is better![/QUOTE]
"Oh no Timmy! Please stop throwing your food around the room Timmy... If that is ok with you? You are a really good boy, but it's just causing a bit of a mess."
"Oh no Timmy! Please stop hitting your sister Timmy... If that is ok with you? You are a really strong boy and it is great that you want to show off, but your sisters' blood is staining the carpet."
[QUOTE=David29;34476089]"Oh no Timmy! Please stop throwing your food around the room Timmy... If that is ok with you? You are a really good boy, but it's just causing a bit of a mess."
"Oh no Timmy! Please stop hitting your sister Timmy... If that is ok with you? You are a really strong boy and it is great that you want to show off, but your sisters' blood is staining the carpet."[/QUOTE]
yeah because i'm totally talking about positively enforcing bad behaviour. get your head out of your ass. how about in 10 years when little timmy is not so little, and someone does something he didn't like and he thinks "hmm, well, when i did things my parents didn't like they gave me a smack! seems like violence is a reasonable way to enforce my will!"
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;34476126]yeah because i'm totally talking about positively enforcing bad behaviour. get your head out of your ass.[/QUOTE]
Coming from the person who thinks the whole argument here is about using physical punishment as a replacement.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;34476126]how about in 10 years when little timmy is not so little, and someone does something he didn't like and he thinks "hmm, well, when i did things my parents didn't like they gave me a smack! seems like violence is a reasonable way to enforce my will!"[/QUOTE]
Because it doesn't work like that, maybe?
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