• Asylum centers in Denmark allow refugees to sleep with their child brides
    54 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49751696]yes :) I just think it's really overboard to say that "puritanism is still strong" and that "teenagers having sex = rape" according to people when conservative bastions like utah or texas have romeo and juliet laws. Sex Ed needs work, though.[/QUOTE] it is absolutely still strong in the united states as a whole, if the united states as a whole condones ruining teenagers lives over their own sexual business
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;49750311]I don't disagree with the mindset, but to say its anything but our deeply rooted Puritan heritage is just plain ignorant[/QUOTE] a 13 year old having sex with a 13 year old is one thing a 13 year old having sex with a 37 year old is another entirely
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;49750311]I don't disagree with the mindset, but to say its anything but our deeply rooted Puritan heritage is just plain ignorant[/QUOTE] lmfao 13 year olds are smack dab in the middle of being children [editline]16th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49750351]The age of consent in some parts of Europe is fourteen years old. It's a young age, but it's old enough for the person to be considered capable of making their own decisions and standing by them.[/QUOTE] lol no. see facepunch
Well the age of consent in Denmark is 15, so I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed. Unless you want to hold refugees to different standards than the rest of the population.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;49751882]lmfao 13 year olds are smack dab in the middle of being children [editline]16th February 2016[/editline] lol no. see facepunch[/QUOTE] Doesn't matter if it's a good or bad decision, at 15 years old you're able to make your own decisions and it's up to the education system and good parenting to make sure these decisions are good ones.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49752116]Doesn't matter if it's a good or bad decision, at 15 years old you're able to make your own decisions and it's up to the education system and good parenting to make sure these decisions are good ones.[/QUOTE] nope, at 15 years you're an immature fuck and you're sure as fuck not gonna be marrying some old ass creep by your own choice
13 year olds are kind of really stupid and should not be trusted with their own choices like that.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;49752463]nope, at 15 years you're an immature fuck and you're sure as fuck not gonna be marrying some old ass creep by your own choice[/QUOTE] Okay so what is your arbitrary value for when an individual is magically capable of rational decisions ? Is it 16 ? 18 ? 21 ? 30 ? Because none of these have any actual reason or value. They're random numbers. 15 years old is typically used as a basis because it's the average at which most people get through puberty and are sexually mature.
As many people already have stated 15 is the legal age of consent in Denmark and I think the whole of Scandinavia. The question of when someone really is psychologically mature enough to have sex is a difficult and individual one, however most people are sexually mature at 15 and therefore I'm of the opinion that a fifteen year old should be able to have sex with their boyfriend/girlfriend if they want to. I agree that someone much more mature being with a 15 year old is gross though. And to people who goes on about a fifteen year old not being mature enough to make the decision of having sex, it's a very individual thing and your brain is not fully developed until you are in your mid-twenties, some scientists even go as far as saying your early thirties. Should people not be allowed to have sex until they are thirty? Many people are married with children around that age. I think most 15 year olds are perfectly able to understand what sex is and conduct it safely. Lastly sex doesn't have to be a supercomplicated thing, it can just be fun between two sexually mature people. I lost my virginity a few months before 15 to a 15 year old and now (8 years later) I can say that it was an informed decision and I absolutely don't regret it. Getting married at the age of 15 is another thing entirely though and sadly much of it is arranged in the parts of the world that the refugees are fleeing from.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49752540]Okay so what is your arbitrary value for when an individual is magically capable of rational decisions ? Is it 16 ? 18 ? 21 ? 30 ? Because none of these have any actual reason or value. They're random numbers. 15 years old is typically used as a basis because it's the average at which most people get through puberty and are sexually mature.[/QUOTE] I know I am not really mature and I am 22 years old. Ok, I won't do any stupid shit but I am still childish as hell.
[QUOTE=Fourier;49752711]I know I am not really mature and I am 22 years old. Ok, I won't do any stupid shit but I am still childish as hell.[/QUOTE] you're sexually mature and have gone through puberty (I hope), that's the point
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49752116]Doesn't matter if it's a good or bad decision, at 15 years old you're able to make your own decisions and it's up to the education system and good parenting to make sure these decisions are good ones.[/QUOTE] Have you heard about [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35585284"]Adam Johnson[/URL]? Did you miss out on the high profile sex gangs and Operation Yewtree? Hand waving potential abuse away by pointing to a low age of consent or saying 15 year olds are mature doesn't magically erase the abuse, it just takes the victims voice away. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49752540]Okay so what is your arbitrary value for when an individual is magically capable of rational decisions ? Is it 16 ? 18 ? 21 ? 30 ? Because none of these have any actual reason or value. They're random numbers. 15 years old is typically used as a basis because it's the average at which most people get through puberty and are sexually mature.[/QUOTE] "If there's grass on the pitch.." How about waiting until they at least finish secondary school? It's when you first start to make important life decisions and are forced to deal with consequences. Obviously people of similar ages should have more leeway but offering that little bit more protection with a larger age gap can be invaluable in fighting abuse.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;49752814]Have you heard about [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35585284"]Adam Johnson[/URL]? Did you miss out on the high profile sex gangs and Operation Yewtree? Hand waving potential abuse away by pointing to a low age of consent or saying 15 year olds are mature doesn't magically erase the abuse, it just takes the victims voice away.[/QUOTE] Good thing there's such a thing as a legal system with policemen and courts and lawsuits and all such wonderful things, because being able to fuck when you're 15 years old doesn't mean you're exempt of other rights. [editline]16th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fourier;49752711]I know I am not really mature and I am 22 years old. Ok, I won't do any stupid shit but I am still childish as hell.[/QUOTE] Some people take until their late 30s to act like responsible adults, I guess we should up the age of consent to 35 years old just to make sure nobody does something they might regret.
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49749659]At age 15 or 16, they definitely aren't child brides. And at 15 or 16, they're of legal age in most of Europe and also many US states.[/QUOTE] Yes, that's the age of consent. It is however not an age where you can agree to a marriage (without something called a "kongebrev"), and it is [I]definitely[/I] not the norm. I'm not saying two people should be separated from each other just like that, but these cases (or at least where one is 15 and the other significantly older) should be scrutinized. [editline]16th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Antlerp;49752731]you're sexually mature and have gone through puberty (I hope), that's the point[/QUOTE] Some people are sexually mature when they're 13. We don't let them have sex with 30 year old men. Likewise porno with some under the age of 18 is illegal in most countries - [I]for[/I] good reason. Sexual maturation has nothing to do with making rational decisions. Age isn't everything, but it is [I]generally[/I] a fairly good marker for how mature people are. There's no good reason to pretend otherwise. [editline]16th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49752923]Some people take until their late 30s to act like responsible adults, I guess we should up the age of consent to 35 years old just to make sure nobody does something they might regret.[/QUOTE] Don't you agree that cases with people closer to childhood should be met with more scrutiny, though?
ITT: People confuse Sexual maturity and the laws surrounding them, with personal maturity and ability to accept accountability for ones own decisions. Being mentally immature is not the same as being physically immature. please dudes... Denmark has this thing called personal responsibility. IF you make shit decisions, it's on your own ass as long as (and sometimes even despite) the law isn't involved. [editline]16th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49753385]Yes, that's the age of consent. It is however not an age where you can agree to a marriage (without something called a "kongebrev"), and it is [I]definitely[/I] not the norm. [editline]16th February 2016[/editline] Sexual maturation has nothing to do with making rational decisions. Age isn't everything, but it is [I]generally[/I] a fairly good marker for how mature people are. There's no good reason to pretend otherwise. [/QUOTE] All of my "THIS!!!" [highlight](User was banned for this post ("ITT" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
In European country, in state of law, something against law is now tolerated. So either everyone should be equal to law and everyone should be able to marry children and sleep with them, or there shouldn't be any situation like this.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49748895]Clicked the article expecting 8 to 10 years younger than that.[/QUOTE] Yeah, same, and even with the article itself specifically calling out only "three to four cases," I'm not seeing much controversy here. Fifteen and sixteen year olds aren't exactly "children." Hell, that's well in line with the age of consent in most Western countries. US Federal law, for example, places the age of consent at sixteen years old, and the majority of the country abides by that. [img]http://changingageofconsent.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/5/9/29591241/4266485.png?398[/img]
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49753385]Yes, that's the age of consent. It is however not an age where you can agree to a marriage (without something called a "kongebrev"), and it is [I]definitely[/I] not the norm. I'm not saying two people should be separated from each other just like that, but these cases (or at least where one is 15 and the other significantly older) should be scrutinized.[/QUOTE] I don't disagree but they should just scrutinise every couple because even if the bride is 18 (or any age) that doesn't mean she agreed to her marriage. And she could've been married since she was 15 for all we know.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49753385]Yes, that's the age of consent. It is however not an age where you can agree to a marriage (without something called a "kongebrev"), and it is [I]definitely[/I] not the norm. I'm not saying two people should be separated from each other just like that, but these cases (or at least where one is 15 and the other significantly older) should be scrutinized. [editline]16th February 2016[/editline] Some people are sexually mature when they're 13. We don't let them have sex with 30 year old men. Likewise porno with some under the age of 18 is illegal in most countries - [I]for[/I] good reason. Sexual maturation has nothing to do with making rational decisions. Age isn't everything, but it is [I]generally[/I] a fairly good marker for how mature people are. There's no good reason to pretend otherwise. [editline]16th February 2016[/editline] Don't you agree that cases with people closer to childhood should be met with more scrutiny, though?[/QUOTE] I mean, I don't necessarily disagree. Marriage at fifteen or sixteen is not really the cultural norm in Western society, no, but that doesn't make it inherently wrong. It's just outside of what we're used to. It's uncomfortably close to the line of acceptability by our standards. Furthermore, I would definitely agree that legitimate [I]child[/I] brides are straight up wrong, but again we're in an awkward position here where it's not current actual children we're dealing with. Giving the benefit of the doubt to the counter-argument here, even assuming these [I]were[/I] child brides at the start of their marriage, and have only just now grown up into late teens and young adults, it's an awkward situation with no clear answer. This all occurred outside of our legal systems, outside of our cultural norms. If they come into our country now, where the girl has grown into a young adult or late teenager, what exactly can we do about it? What about in a more advanced scenario, where the once-child wife has grown into her thirties or forties? Like you said, we can't exactly force them apart, separating families, for violating laws or values that don't exist or are not the same in the times or places that they came from.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49755765]I mean, I don't necessarily disagree. Marriage at fifteen or sixteen is not really the cultural norm in Western society, no, but that doesn't make it inherently wrong. It's just outside of what we're used to.[/QUOTE] An important thing to keep in mind is that most of these people were forced into marrying their husband by their family. Many are very unhappy with their situation, but don't do anything about it out of fear for their family coming after them and hurting them, or worse.
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;49756957]An important thing to keep in mind is that most of these people were forced into marrying their husband by their family. Many are very unhappy with their situation, but don't do anything about it out of fear for their family coming after them and hurting them, or worse.[/QUOTE] And they now live in a society with well established institutions and organizations to make sure these kinds of marriages can break up without the family coming at their throat.
Aren't minor marriages virtually almost arranged? Arranged marriages are the norm in north Africa afaik. Personally I'm not okay with the whole business but it's tricky to judge from this position.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49755765]I mean, I don't necessarily disagree. Marriage at fifteen or sixteen is not really the cultural norm in Western society, no, but that doesn't make it inherently wrong. It's just outside of what we're used to. It's uncomfortably close to the line of acceptability by our standards. Furthermore, I would definitely agree that legitimate [I]child[/I] brides are straight up wrong, but again we're in an awkward position here where it's not current actual children we're dealing with. Giving the benefit of the doubt to the counter-argument here, even assuming these [I]were[/I] child brides at the start of their marriage, and have only just now grown up into late teens and young adults, it's an awkward situation with no clear answer. This all occurred outside of our legal systems, outside of our cultural norms. If they come into our country now, where the girl has grown into a young adult or late teenager, what exactly can we do about it? What about in a more advanced scenario, where the once-child wife has grown into her thirties or forties? Like you said, we can't exactly force them apart, separating families, for violating laws or values that don't exist or are not the same in the times or places that they came from.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call a 15 year old and the 30 year old her parents married her off to a "family". And I think there's plenty that's inherently wrong with it. Though I agree, I'm not sure there's much that can be done about it other than point out how despicable it is. [editline]17th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Talishmar;49761390]Aren't minor marriages virtually almost arranged? Arranged marriages are the norm in north Africa afaik. Personally I'm not okay with the whole business but it's tricky to judge from this position.[/QUOTE] It's not tricky at all. It's abhorrent. It completely robs women of their self determination and reduces them to property. like there might not be a way to "solve" it but that doesn't make it not terrible
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49758726]And they now live in a society with well established institutions and organizations to make sure these kinds of marriages can break up without the family coming at their throat.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they will be going for the acid attack on the face instead of the throat. They are not safe. Chances are that the wives have gone through FGM so not like sex feels like anything to them in the first place. Can't really reach sexual maturity when all your bits have been lopped off to just make you into a babyfactory. This new law should be 'all child brides of refugees investigated for forced marriages' instead of letting them keep doing whatever the fuck they want to their women.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.