Russia: Somali pirates freed 300 miles offshore may have drowned. No shit.
155 replies, posted
[QUOTE=combine487;21937624]No one is arguing that this isn't a crime. People are arguing against your arrogant attitude to the the motivations of these pirates. The absolute core of this problem is the instability of Somalias government. It virtually doesn't have one, with the country in the hands of violent warlords. Without proper law enforcement on their own countries behalf, and far more importantly control over their own waters, piracy will continue.
The lack of control in their waters has lead to huge overfishing, NOT on their behalf. Almost $300 million worth of fish per year is taken illegally from their waters by Asian and European companies, depriving local fishermen of their livelihoods. Not only that, but other Asian and European countries dump toxic waste into their waters, proving disastrous for the natual ecosystem. The lack of government control means that Somalia has no resources or institutions to deal with the problem.
Piracy is definently linked to this. Their own waters have been exploited by foreigners, and local fisheries have been destroyed thus. You can almost scrape a tiny bit of empathy for them. Admittedly, providing Somalia with proper control over its waters wouldn't solve the problem entirely, given the high risk high reward nature of piracy, but it would undeniably improve the situation.
Preventing piracy through international enforcement is of upmost importance, but this is only a treatment for the symptom, not the disease of the problem. Assisting Somalia in establishing control and providing aid is the only way to ensuring the cessation of piracy. That isn't a simple task, but it is a solution.[/QUOTE]
Hear hear
[QUOTE=Heroms;21913928]I honestly wouldn't have a problem with that.
Don't commit crimes and you won't be stoned to death. It's that simple.
And why is everyone saying "We should be helping *Insert African country here*.
It's not like any other country really had help.
Not our fault they're still living in their little mud huts. There's a picture portraying that quite well somewhere around the internet.
Then there's people saying "They're living in poverty! They're committing the crime out of necessity!"
No, fuck off. A crime is a crime, they're holding people hostage with guns.
There are other ways to make money and get yourself out of poverty, it just takes half a brain and some patience.
Of course some big powers have a major influence in some African countries that might make it hard for the people there to live their lives,
(See Congo) and I understand that and I think that it's those cases that we should pay attention to. No one else really has an excuse.
If you disagree with me do reply, I'd like to know your point of view and why.[/QUOTE]
Ignorance is bliss
Am I the only one who almost cried laughing at this?
Russia does this shit right.
World: "Pirates drowned"
Pirate leaders: "Who the fuck cares we recruit our men from poor fishermen who lost their jobs due to big russian and european fish trawlers anyway there is plenty of these cheap bastards"
[quote]Russian officials gave no explanation for removing the navigation equipment.[/quote]
"We did it for the lulz"
[QUOTE=combine487;21937624]No one is arguing that this isn't a crime. People are arguing against your ignorant attitude to the the motivations of these pirates. The absolute core of this problem is the instability of Somalias government. It virtually doesn't have one, with the country in the hands of violent warlords. Without proper law enforcement on their own countries behalf, and far more importantly control over their own waters, piracy will continue.
The lack of control in their waters has lead to huge overfishing, NOT on their behalf. Almost $300 million worth of fish per year is taken illegally from their waters by Asian and European companies, depriving local fishermen of their livelihoods. Not only that, but other Asian and European countries dump toxic waste into their waters, proving disastrous for the natual ecosystem. The lack of government control means that Somalia has no resources or institutions to deal with the problem.
Piracy is definently linked to this. Their own waters have been exploited by foreigners, and local fisheries have been destroyed thus. You can almost scrape a tiny bit of empathy for them. Admittedly, providing Somalia with proper control over its waters wouldn't solve the problem entirely, given the high risk high reward nature of piracy, but it would undeniably improve the situation.
Preventing piracy through international enforcement is of upmost importance, but this is only a treatment for the symptom, not the disease of the problem. Assisting Somalia in establishing control and providing aid is the only way to ensuring the cessation of piracy. That isn't a simple task, but it is a solution.[/QUOTE]
I don't completely hate Somalians, nor do I think that they are all pirates and i don't think they should all get shot. I just strongly believe that no matter in what position you are, crime isn't the way out. If you do choose to take that way, be ready to face the consequences.
It seems as if all you did was research Somalia.
Jamaica's economy is collapsing also, it's cheaper for them to import food rather than grow on their own soil and so they end up with huge debts to pay. They literally do nothing there but export bananas to the UK and some parts of Europe. America has completely destroyed their ability to export anything else. There are whole districts of people living in poverty and not able to do anything about it. I don't see Jamaicans jumping onto boats and holding people hostage.
Where do you people even get off at the notion that it's okay to commit crimes for a need? [B]Get it through your heads, it doesn't matter if you're living in poverty, you shouldn't be ruining the life of others.[/B]
Heck even take the holocaust, should every Jewish person now go to Germany and hold random people hostage demanding ransom for all the pain and agony someone else has caused them? It's the perfect analogue.
I have also talked about my other point of how generally Africa failed to keep up with the times and that is the core reason for all the poverty that is happening there.
You shitheads need to stop picking out parts of my posts and bashing them like you know what you're talking about.
to be honest i would just throw them overboard without a boat so they did die.
[QUOTE=Heroms;21945794]I don't completely hate Somalians, nor do I think that they are all pirates and i don't think they should all get shot. I just strongly believe that no matter in what position you are, crime isn't the way out. If you do choose to take that way, be ready to face the consequences.
It seems as if all you did was research Somalia.
Jamaica's economy is collapsing also, it's cheaper for them to import food rather than grow on their own soil and so they end up with huge debts to pay. They literally do nothing there but export bananas to the UK and some parts of Europe. America has completely destroyed their ability to export anything else. There are whole districts of people living in poverty and not able to do anything about it. I don't see Jamaicans jumping onto boats and holding people hostage.
Where do you people even get off at the notion that it's okay to commit crimes for a need? [B]Get it through your heads, it doesn't matter if you're living in poverty, you shouldn't be ruining the life of others.[/B]
Heck even take the holocaust, should every Jewish person now go to Germany and hold random people hostage demanding ransom for all the pain and agony someone else has caused them? It's the perfect analogue.
I have also talked about my other point of how generally Africa failed to keep up with the times and that is the core reason for all the poverty that is happening there.
You shitheads need to stop picking out parts of my posts and bashing them like you know what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
Poverty in first world countries doesn't matter, if you work hard and get education, you can get a well-paying job. It matters how hard you try.
How much do you think education matters in a country full of anarchy of Somalia? Hell, I don't even think children in Somalia even been a child in their entire life, they're constantly fighting for survival. You could have a god damn masters degree and still be forced into piracy because a fancy degree doesn't matter over there.
If you lived in Somalia and experienced what's it's like there yourself, you'd have a completely different point of view.
but alas, you're in the complete safety of a comfy chair and a roof over your heads.
Shit, it's sad that a satire show called South Park got the pirate's POV right.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;21946928]Poverty in first world countries doesn't matter, if you work hard and get education, you can get a well-paying job. It matters how hard you try.
How much do you think education matters in a country full of anarchy of Somalia? Hell, I don't even think children in Somalia even been a child in their entire life, they're constantly fighting for survival. You could have a god damn masters degree and still be forced into piracy because a fancy degree doesn't matter over there.
If you lived in Somalia and experienced what's it's like there yourself, you'd have a completely different point of view.
but alas, you're in the complete safety of a comfy chair and a roof over your heads.
Shit, it's sad that a satire show called South Park got the pirate's POV right.[/QUOTE]
South park is an awful show and isn't funny. Really not something you should reference when talking about this.
I'm living under a roof they're not boohoo. Suddenly I need to feel empathy for them? Maybe I should just break down and cry for every person in this world that has been murdered, wrongfully convicted, raped, robbed, bullied, etc.
I said it three times already and I'll say it again, Africa failed to keep up with the times and that is why they are in poverty, nothing we do or not do will change that, it's part of history. Africa simply wasn't as successful as the rest of the world. Talking from the white knight high horse that I am apparently on, (Or whatever you guys called it), if I was born there I might as well go jump off the nearest bridge because nothing good will come of my life anyway. How do you people even know what it's like there? Have you lived in Somalia? How do you know that everything is so bad that they simply have to turn to crime and start holding others hostage? Besides, why are you trying to measure pain and suffering? Everyone's gone through a hard time, who are you to say whose pain is greater? Why do the honest workers on those boats have to go through agony at someone else's expense?
Way to not read my holocaust analogue.
[b]Edit:[/b]
I mean really, put this in perspective here.
Had these companies chosen not to go to Africa and instead started fishing on let's say Russian or Australian waters, would that in turn make Russia or Australia suddenly go into poverty? No, there would be political action against this. Why isn't Somalia able to do the same thing? Because they have no government? And whose fault is that?
Yes it's wrong that these companies are doing this to Somalia, but you people are acting as if suddenly the Somali's in turn are doing the right thing when they hold people hostage.
It really makes them no worse than the companies mentioned.
What a great guy. Takin' care of da criminal scum!
[QUOTE=Heroms;21947376]I mean really, put this in perspective here.
Had these companies chosen not to go to Africa and instead started fishing on let's say Russian or Australian waters, would that in turn make Russia or Australia suddenly go into poverty? No, there would be political action against this. Why isn't Somalia able to do the same thing? Because they have no government? And whose fault is that?
Yes it's wrong that these companies are doing this to Somalia, but you people are acting as if suddenly the Somali's in turn are doing the right thing when they hold people hostage.
It really makes them no worse than the companies mentioned.[/QUOTE]
First of all stop trivialising the plight of Somalia. You do appear to be on a huge high horse, seeing as you can't feel empathy for people driven to crime by their poverty. Something I think YOU would do once you realised the gravity of your situation. Also, for the second time, no one is arguing that that is an excuse for their behaviour. No one has said the pirates are in the right, stop putting words in other peoples mouths. We are discussing their motivations, and why its necessary to consider the root of the issue of piracy if you want to effectively combat it.
The companies exploiting Somalias fishing industry are contributing to piracy. Your examples are ridiculous aswell, of course overfishing Russian or Australian waters wouldn't drive them to poverty. Thats because they are both huge land resource exporters, not fishing industries like Somalia. Their lack of goverment control over their main resource contributes to the problem.
So maybe we can find some common ground here, stop arguing that we are saying the Somalian pirates are doing the right thing, they are not. But consider their situation and their motivations before saying "yeah lets kill the motherfuckers." Obviously some of the pirates are out for purely wrong intentions, but you can empathise with the people in the country and what they are driven to do.
Well they had to know what they were getting into when they tried to rob a ship.
[QUOTE=combine487;21953319]First of all stop trivialising the plight of Somalia. You do appear to be on a huge high horse, seeing as you can't feel empathy for people driven to crime by their poverty. Something I think YOU would do once you realised the gravity of your situation. Also, for the second time, no one is arguing that that is an excuse for their behaviour. No one has said the pirates are in the right, stop putting words in other peoples mouths. We are discussing their motivations, and why its necessary to consider the root of the issue of piracy if you want to effectively combat it.
The companies exploiting Somalias fishing industry are contributing to piracy. Your examples are ridiculous aswell, of course overfishing Russian or Australian waters wouldn't drive them to poverty. Thats because they are both huge land resource exporters, not fishing industries like Somalia. Their lack of goverment control over their main resource contributes to the problem.
So maybe we can find some common ground here, stop arguing that we are saying the Somalian pirates are doing the right thing, they are not. But consider their situation and their motivations before saying "yeah lets kill the motherfuckers." Obviously some of the pirates are out for purely wrong intentions, but you can empathise with the people in the country and what they are driven to do.[/QUOTE]
I've given you countless examples of people in situations of poverty yet they don't go and take hostages or anything of the like, they find other ways to deal with the problem, clearly having a group of 10 or so people suddenly gain a million dollars isn't going to solve anything either. Why on earth would I start empathizing with them. What part of [b]They take innocent people hostage[/b] do you not understand.
When you are telling me to empathize with them you are suggesting that some part of you does think that what they are doing is right, that their need for food and because of everything that has been done to them justifies taking a boat hostage.
I never said "Yeah lets kill the motherfuckers." I was saying that if they are going to turn to taking people hostage, killing them will be the result. It would have been no different had they have gone to court.
I've also been trying to say that there is no problem to solve here to begin with, had we not took over their fishing waters, a large percentage of them would still be living in poverty.
You seem to have completely overlooked my example with Australia and Russia. The point there was that most of Africa over the years has not been able to become a first world country, they aren't even close. This is not exactly their own fault per-say, but it's not like any other country had anything to do with it.
Africa failed to keep up with the times.
Yes you could help Africa out of poverty in order to combat piracy, but do you realize how much money that would cost the other nations? Do you really think anyone can afford or even has the will to go through with anything like this?
And why would any country in their right mind really just let these pirates go, they will simply go and capture another ship. If you deal with them by force then they will realize they don't stand a chance and will stop taking boats.
You need to stop thinking like some multinational peace keeper and realize how the world really works. This is not some magical land where everything is possible. Everything is done out of a selfish motive, life's a bitch and then you die. Deal with it.
[QUOTE=Heroms;21953763]
Everything is done out of a selfish motive, life's a bitch and then you die. Deal with it.[/QUOTE]
Oh, so those merchants can stop complaining about pirates then.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;21953976]Oh, so those merchants can stop complaining about pirates then.[/QUOTE]
What...
[QUOTE=Heroms;21954691]What...[/QUOTE]
So what if their little shop got stolen? Life's a bitch, boohoo, toughen the fuck up.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;21954754]So what if their little shop got stolen? Life's a bitch, boohoo, toughen the fuck up.[/QUOTE]
Yeah pretty much. Except no one messes with Putin's shit and gets away with it. :frogc00l:
[QUOTE=Heroms;21913928]I honestly wouldn't have a problem with that.
Don't commit crimes and you won't be stoned to death. It's that simple.
And why is everyone saying "We should be helping *Insert African country here*.
It's not like any other country really had help.
Not our fault they're still living in their little mud huts. There's a picture portraying that quite well somewhere around the internet.
Then there's people saying "They're living in poverty! They're committing the crime out of necessity!"
No, fuck off. A crime is a crime, they're holding people hostage with guns.
There are other ways to make money and get yourself out of poverty, it just takes half a brain and some patience.
Of course some big powers have a major influence in some African countries that might make it hard for the people there to live their lives,
(See Congo) and I understand that and I think that it's those cases that we should pay attention to. No one else really has an excuse.
If you disagree with me do reply, I'd like to know your point of view and why.[/QUOTE]
Is this seriously getting agrees? What the fuck happened to you Facepunch?
Dark Ages justice and a nihilistic view toward underdeveloped countries is NOT the way to advance humanity.
i don't give a shit if they died or not, but that, that's so fucking bad ass.
This is why i love Russia.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21955386]Is this seriously getting agrees? What the fuck happened to you Facepunch?
Dark Ages justice and a nihilistic view toward underdeveloped countries is NOT the way to advance humanity.[/QUOTE]
Even if Facepunch is like this, I was under the impression that everyone thought pirates were awesome.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21955386]Is this seriously getting agrees? What the fuck happened to you Facepunch?
Dark Ages justice and a nihilistic view toward underdeveloped countries is NOT the way to advance humanity.[/QUOTE]That's FP's general population for you; bigoted, vengeful, massive hardon for wars and the like.
This thread is disgusting.
But what do you expect from a bunch of war porn 12 year olds.
[QUOTE=TH89;21914708]Please, tell us how you got yourself out of poverty in Somalia.
Also, if you honestly believe that anyone accused of a crime should be put to death without a trial, there is something wrong with you. That's not meant as an attack or anything, I'm serious. That is pretty sociopathic thinking.[/QUOTE]
Attempting to murder someone, or having intention to is an acceptable reason to end up meeting consequence.
I don't care how bad off you are, it's never acceptable to do things like this to people who don't have likewise intentions against you.
Now if crewmen on these ships were seeking out pirates to murder them, that would be a lot different. But when you attack someone's ship with intention to hold their crew hostage or murder them, there's no possible way to come up with a correct moral standpoint other than that the offending party deserves what ever they get.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21955386]Is this seriously getting agrees? What the fuck happened to you Facepunch?
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;21958703]That's FP's general population for you; bigoted, vengeful, massive hardon for wars and the like.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21959801]This thread is disgusting.
But what do you expect from a bunch of war porn 12 year olds.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to break to you but this is what the world is like, not just facepunch. Have you all been living under a rock?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21955386]
Dark Ages justice and a nihilistic view toward underdeveloped countries is NOT the way to advance humanity.
[/QUOTE]
It isn't exactly going to help advance humanity either. We are animals, meat and bone. You people are putting some sort of a higher order to everything, as if we are some angelic creatures that should make everything right.
You probably did a lot of things in your life that you regret/are going to regret and aren't very humane, probably on a very small scale.
[QUOTE=FlyingDog2;21895366]Yes, they should just hang around on their beaches watching european trawlers take all of their food. And the beaches are radioactive. Because we dumped nuclear material and all kinds of poisonous shit in their waters. This doesn't justify their actions, but they are desperate people in a desperate environment. Somali pirates are actually one of the most important factions in Somalia. They bring food home to a starved people. Some of them are just gangsters and keep all their spoils for themselves, but a lot of them are honest fishermen driven to stealing back fish from their unprotected waters.[/QUOTE]
So you are essentially both condemning and supporting the actions of the pirates.
Indecisive much?
[QUOTE=David29;21960762]So the answer to all of life's problems is to commit acts of crime?
[/QUOTE]
These guys were forced into it.
[QUOTE=PrismatexV8;21960824]These guys were forced into it.[/QUOTE]
You can never be forced into crime. Especially something like this.
[QUOTE=PrismatexV8;21960824]These guys were forced into it.[/QUOTE]
No they weren't. There is a distinct difference between 'force' and 'temptation'.
[QUOTE=Heroms;21960904]You can never be forced into crime. Especially something like this.[/QUOTE]
let family starve
or
hold ships for ransom to get food money
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