[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;38012564]Aren't there plenty of ways to get around some of the restrictions though?
Like apple and that funny new charger.[/QUOTE]
No, failure to comply will result in you/the company/the nation being brought up before a European Supreme Court; And in line with how the fascist, to say the least, organ of the EU decides; Will be fined/banned from having their products sold etc within the EU.
Infact, the IPRED directive, and later on, FRA directive, which allows the Swedish government, police, military forces and secret police to tap into any internet connection, for any reason, has not been turned down by the EU Supreme Court; Despite that this is a clear violation of the privacy of ones individual. Infact, IPRED was enforced, voted on and enacted by the EU. Both of which are in direct violation of the Swedish constitution; And the EU constitution.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPRED[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_National_Defence_Radio_Establishment[/url]
These both passed despite extraordinarie protests from people all over the country; Thusly, another sign that the EU simply does not care for what the individual thinks of their policies.
So we would have to build in multiple graphics cards on our PCs later in time. If they aren't allowed to increase their power, they are getting smaller, because of better technologies that allows higher performance densities.
[quote]exclusive information[/quote]
I will bet you ten bucks that this is shown to be horseshit within the next few weeks. It reeks of UROCRATS NANNY STAT sensationalist bullshite to me.
[QUOTE=The fox;38009580]More proof that the EU is a piece of shit that should be dismantled asap. But I suppose we will soon get the usual armade of people from FP complaining that the EU is still something that is not a waste of space.[/QUOTE]
You're an idiot
'irregardless'
[QUOTE=waxrock;38014393]'irregardless'[/QUOTE]
hi
[url]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=irregardless[/url]
[url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless[/url]
[QUOTE=The fox;38012460]They are not; Far from it.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, no democracy you say?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_elections[/url]
The European Parliament in Brussels has had directly elected EU-wide MEPs since 1979, and the European Council and the Council of the EU hold nationwide elections. Sure sounds like democratic elections to me.
Secondly, here are your freedoms you claim the EU cares nothing about and does not protect (compared to the US, apparently): [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights[/url]
Let's see, article 10 provides freedom of expression, with exceptions not dissimilar to those our Supreme Court has mandated for the US. Article 11 protects freedom of association, and as you can plainly see the list goes on.
So tell me, where is this massive infringement on your rights in a way less bloody trivial than how curved a banana can be?
[QUOTE=Megafan;38014454]Hmm, no democracy you say?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_elections[/url]
The European Parliament in Brussels has had directly elected EU-wide MEPs since 1979, and the European Council and the Council of the EU hold nationwide elections. Sure sounds like democratic elections to me.
Secondly, here are your freedoms you claim the EU cares nothing about and does not protect (compared to the US, apparently): [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights[/url]
Let's see, article 10 provides freedom of expression, with exceptions not dissimilar to those our Supreme Court has mandated for the US. Article 11 protects freedom of association, and as you can plainly see the list goes on.
So tell me, where is this massive infringement on your rights in a way less bloody trivial than how curved a banana can be?[/QUOTE]
For example, this has been broken in regards to the IPRED law introduced, passed and made law by the EU cabinet; [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_8_-_privacy[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_10_-_expression[/url] "Article 10 provides the right to freedom of expression, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society." thusly it is not a true freedom, but rather a limited imposed limitation upon the freedom to say what one wants; So long as it does not break what ones nation wishes you to say; Thusly, the EU does not have any true freedom of speech.
"Article 18 provides that any limitations on the rights provided for in the Convention may be used only for the purpose for which they are provided. For example, Article 5, which guarantees the right to personal freedom, may be explicitly limited in order to bring a suspect before a judge." Which basically means, that no right granted by this constitution is truely upheld.
Furthermore, the EU does not care about protests held, in for example, Ireland, in regard to the new constitution that was forced upon the Irish people; [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon[/url]
I hope they don't go full retard and extend this to processors, because if they do and it effects my server prices I'm going to be royally pissed.
[QUOTE=Dysgalt;38014500]I hope they don't go full retard and extend this to processors, because if they do and it effects my server prices I'm going to be royally pissed.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry; They probably will; It is the EU after all.
I think these new regulations are quite nice actually. I mean seriously, things started getting out of hand when a computer's power supply could turn over a car engine. Yes I know they don't stop this kind of usage but at least they put a limit on how much you can use. Less of a power bill for me!
Might promote more efficient use of technology instead of shoving as much shit as possible onto a PCB.
This is why the UK is trying to [I]leave[/I] the EU
[QUOTE=DrBreen;38011488]On the other hand you will be seeing a significant boost in the notebook graphics performance department if they focus more on energy efficiency, you know, desktops aren't the only computers around[/QUOTE]
But we already are going that way.
The integrated graphics card in my sisters new laptop is easily twice as capable of playing games as the discrete graphics card in w500 from 4 years ago, and it consumes less power under full load than my processor alone and almost none under no load. On top of this she has a discrete card that's still has lower power consumption than my card while blowing it out of the water in every conceivable way.
Even on the desktop world, power efficiency is becoming a huge factor. Look at the trend towards higher and higher rated power supplies. Gold rated PSUs are getting more and more common, and are at the price point where they often pay for themselves within a year over a basic 80 plus, or 80 plus bronze. Even the GPUs are dropping. Look at the power consumption on the 660 ti. It's staggeringly low for it's performance levels. Every generation had taken power consumption and chopped it off at the knees.
The big chip manufacturers have realized that the mobile market is at the moment a seemingly inexhaustible gold mine, even with the economy being in the shitter. Look at what Intel is doing. Haswell is almost exclusively focused on the mobile market. It offers notable, but minor, performance boosts for desktop use, but absolutely face fucks anything else on the market for the mobile world. Intel could have bumped performance up and kept the same TDP, but they instead nudged performance and dumped the TDP.
In the server world, haswell is slated to have 14 core xeons that have the same TDP as current 6-8 core sandy bridge chips. The monetary incentive in that case is to provide chips using the same socket that don't consume more power, but offer 2-3 times the performance, meaning minimal hardware upgrades.
SSDs are becoming commonplace in server clusters because of insanely higher performance, acceptable failure rates, and staggeringly lower power consumption than huge arrays of conventional 2.5 inch disks.
[QUOTE=Zethereal;38014545]This is why the UK is trying to [I]leave[/I] the EU[/QUOTE]
Which is a great choice; Alas, the only thing the UK would lose on would be the free transport of products and work labour; And, unfortunately, in my own case, the right to move between countries without having to have a visa or suchforth; I merely hope the UK does not exit the EU before I can get into it. I am, at the very least, glad that at least one nation has the balls to stand up against this fascist institution.
[QUOTE=Swilly;38009478]The entire point of doing this is for efficiency, because you know, global climate change? If we don't do something now, that rationing will become MUCH MUCH worse if we wait too long.[/QUOTE]
sleeping PCs and using shitty integrated gpus will save the world yo
[QUOTE=The fox;38014473]For example, this has been broken in regards to the IPRED law introduced, passed and made law by the EU cabinet; [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_8_-_privacy[/URL]
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_10_-_expression[/URL] "Article 10 provides the right to freedom of expression, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society." thusly it is not a true freedom, but rather a limited imposed limitation upon the freedom to say what one wants; So long as it does not break what ones nation wishes you to say; Thusly, the EU does not have any true freedom of speech.[/QUOTE]
This would be a fair argument, except for the fact that by this logic no nation in the world has freedom of speech. The US for example restricts freedom of speech if its necessary conclusion will be the harm of an individual, among other reasons. There are a large number of instances in which this was contested and fought over because of its nature:[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Amendment#Freedom_of_speech[/URL]
[QUOTE=The fox;38014473]"Article 18 provides that any limitations on the rights provided for in the Convention may be used only for the purpose for which they are provided. For example, Article 5, which guarantees the right to personal freedom, may be explicitly limited in order to bring a suspect before a judge." Which basically means, that no right granted by this constitution is truely upheld.[/QUOTE]
Same argument. If you believe that this is for some reason [I]not[/I] the case in the US or other democratic nations, you are deluding yourself. Should a person be a reasonable suspect in a crime, they can be brought in for questioning, but of course whether they choose to answer those questions is up to them.
[QUOTE=The fox;38014473]Furthermore, the EU does not care about protests held, in for example, Ireland, in regard to the new constitution that was forced upon the Irish people; [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon[/URL][/QUOTE]
Yes, if by 'does not care', you mean 'was one of the only nations to be allowed a referendum on the treaty as per the Irish constitution', which after two successive referendums approved it:
"Under the original timetable set by the German Presidency of the Council of the European Union in the first half of 2007, the Treaty was scheduled to be fully ratified by the end of 2008, thus entering into force on 1 January 2009. This plan failed however, primarily due to the initial rejection of the Treaty in 2008 by the Irish electorate in a referendum, a decision which was reversed in a second referendum in 2009. Ireland, as required by its constitution, was the only member state to hold referendums on the Treaty. The Czech instrument of ratification was the last to be deposited in Rome on 13 November 2009.[19] Therefore, the Treaty of Lisbon entered into force on 1 December 2009."
If nothing else you sound pretty spoiled, as if there is someone stepping on your face when in fact all that has happened is that a fly landed on your head.
someone plug in a horribly inefficient toaster at one of their buildings.
[QUOTE=Barbarian887;38014583]sleeping PCs and using shitty integrated gpus will save the world yo[/QUOTE]
Depending on the power usage of the average computer, it can help a lot. This average is getting bigger and bigger every year. What this is doing is capping the power limit to a reasonable amount. The amount of electricity some modern gaming computers suck back is atrocious.
It harms AMD's more cores= MOAR COMPUTING POWAHHHH approach to business.
Also helps consumers as they have to pay less on their electricity bill when their computer sucks back less energy. Unfortunately for some of you, this argument wont make sense to you until you are out of Mommy and Daddy's home and trying to pay your own bills.
[QUOTE=The fox;38014473]For example, this has been broken in regards to the IPRED law introduced, passed and made law by the EU cabinet; [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_8_-_privacy[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_10_-_expression[/url] "Article 10 provides the right to freedom of expression, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society." thusly it is not a true freedom, but rather a limited imposed limitation upon the freedom to say what one wants; So long as it does not break what ones nation wishes you to say; Thusly, the EU does not have any true freedom of speech.
"Article 18 provides that any limitations on the rights provided for in the Convention may be used only for the purpose for which they are provided. For example, Article 5, which guarantees the right to personal freedom, may be explicitly limited in order to bring a suspect before a judge." Which basically means, that no right granted by this constitution is truely upheld.
Furthermore, the EU does not care about protests held, in for example, Ireland, in regard to the new constitution that was forced upon the Irish people; [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon[/url][/QUOTE]
The US doesn't have free speech by that argument either. Your point? Article 18 as well, there's extremely similar American phrases. If you argue that one is fascist, you're arguing both are fascist. Is the US, and by extension the EU fascist?
[QUOTE=Megafan;38014605]This would be a fair argument, except for the fact that by this logic no nation in the world has freedom of speech. The US for example restricts freedom of speech if its necessary conclusion will be the harm of an individual, among other reasons. There are a large number of instances in which this was contested and fought over because of its nature:[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Amendment#Freedom_of_speech[/URL][/quote]
Except the difference in the freedom of speech laying within the restrictions of the EU and the US is that those who are within the US are free, quite literally, to express themselves in any way they so wish; Alas, this can be quite clearly shown by the fact that a pastor who was responsible for "Burn a Quran day"(Was it really him?) Not being allowed to enter the UK, while this was OK in the US, while not being approved of. Thusly, freedom of speech is severaly restricted within the EU; Alas, one can not say that the EU provides full freedom of speech, as it does not; While the US does so.
[quote]Same argument. If you believe that this is for some reason [I]not[/I] the case in the US or other democratic nations, you are deluding yourself. Should a person be a reasonable suspect in a crime, they can be brought in for questioning, but of course whether they choose to answer those questions is up to them.[/quote]
The difference here, once again, being that US citizens, those who are born in the US and/or are neutralized citizens of the US are not being held indefinately, or being sent off site, as has been the case with those born within the EU or likewise.
[quote]Yes, if by 'does not care', you mean 'was one of the only nations to be allowed a referendum on the treaty as per the Irish constitution', which after two successive referendums approved it:
"Under the original timetable set by the German Presidency of the Council of the European Union in the first half of 2007, the Treaty was scheduled to be fully ratified by the end of 2008, thus entering into force on 1 January 2009. This plan failed however, primarily due to the initial rejection of the Treaty in 2008 by the Irish electorate in a referendum, a decision which was reversed in a second referendum in 2009. Ireland, as required by its constitution, was the only member state to hold referendums on the Treaty. The Czech instrument of ratification was the last to be deposited in Rome on 13 November 2009.[19] Therefore, the Treaty of Lisbon entered into force on 1 December 2009."
If nothing else you sound pretty spoiled, as if there is someone stepping on your face when in fact all that has happened is that a fly landed on your head.[/QUOTE]
The EU did obviously not care for the vote of which was held in Ireland; As they both, as far as I recall threatend Ireland into ratifying it, but also forced them into doin gsuch; Thusly ignoring the majority of the votes; Of which the major parties were used to portray the vote as something good; Alas, it is not.
Centralizing power away from those who should be held accountable for such actions is never a good thing; Unless you want to revert to Soviet Union tactics.
Guys, it's an article about limiting power consumption on computers, how did this turn into a debate about the legitimacy of the EU?
[QUOTE=The fox;38014674]The difference here, once again, being that US citizens, those who are born in the US and/or are neutralized citizens of the US are not being held indefinately, or being sent off site, as has been the case with those born within the EU or likewise.[/quote]
What epidemic of EU citizens being held indefinitely in prisons has there been, because clearly you're referring to something not already talked about in this thread. And believe it or not, US citizens are held indefinitely in some cases.
[QUOTE=The fox;38014674]The EU did obviously not care for the vote of which was held in Ireland; As they both, as far as I recall threatend Ireland into ratifying it, but also forced them into doin gsuch; Thusly ignoring the majority of the votes; Of which the major parties were used to portray the vote as something good; Alas, it is not.
Centralizing power away from those who should be held accountable for such actions is never a good thing; Unless you want to revert to Soviet Union tactics.[/QUOTE]
Threatened how? And even if they were, it would be like if we in the US were having a constitutional amendment but were unable to pass it due to Wisconsin saying they didn't want it. Pretty obviously, media and other powers from the other 49 states probably would pressure the people of Wisconsin to approve it, but that would hardly be evidence of any major affront to our democracy.
The US can hold you against your will indefinitely based on very small, meaningless criteria, without right to trial. And you're arguing it can't do that when it clearly can and that it's not fascist even if it did?
[url]http://www.cracked.com/blog/ndaa-biggest-election-issue-no-ones-talking-about/[/url]
Yes, it's cracked. However, it's still citing sources.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38014699]Guys, it's an article about limiting power consumption on computers, how did this turn into a debate about the legitimacy of the EU?[/QUOTE]
Because The fox is claiming this another in a supposed long line of measures to destroy the freedom of the peoples of Europe.
[editline]12th October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;38014720]The US can hold you against your will indefinitely based on very small, meaningless criteria, without right to trial. And you're arguing it can't do that when it clearly can and that it's not fascist even if it did?
[url]http://www.cracked.com/blog/ndaa-biggest-election-issue-no-ones-talking-about/[/url]
Yes, it's cracked. However, it's still citing sources.[/QUOTE]
Well the Executive has the power to decide whether they (the government) want to hold you indefinitely, but essentially yeah.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38014664]Depending on the power usage of the average computer, it can help a lot. This average is getting bigger and bigger every year. What this is doing is capping the power limit to a reasonable amount. The amount of electricity some modern gaming computers suck back is atrocious.
It harms AMD's more cores= MOAR COMPUTING POWAHHHH approach to business.
Also helps consumers as they have to pay less on their electricity bill when their computer sucks back less energy. Unfortunately for some of you, this argument wont make sense to you until you are out of Mommy and Daddy's home and trying to pay your own bills.[/QUOTE]
Nearly everyone over in pc building and most of the people in the discussion sections are keenly aware of power consumption. Not a week goes by where someone isn't told to get a power supply that doesn't blow chunks. GPU power consumption is stupidly well documented, as is CPU consumption, and supply efficiency.
Frequently it doesn't pay off to buy an efficient unit though. If you aren't using your machine aggressively for 4 hours a day, you will never recoup that 50 dollars. At that point it isn't economically viable to 'go green'. This isn't even considering the good probability that making 'greener' items generally increases waste byproducts of manufacturing. At the end of the day, the consumer will go with what's cheapest, and the educated consumer will go with what's cheapest over a couple of years, and nothing the polar bears have to say about it will stop them.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38014734]Nearly everyone over in pc building and most of the people in the discussion sections are keenly aware of power consumption. Not a week goes by where someone isn't told to get a power supply that doesn't blow chunks. GPU power consumption is stupidly well documented, as is CPU consumption, and supply efficiency.
Frequently it doesn't pay off to buy an efficient unit though. If you aren't using your machine aggressively for 4 hours a day, you will never recoup that 50 dollars. At that point it isn't economically viable to 'go green'. This isn't even considering the good probability that making 'greener' items generally increases waste byproducts of manufacturing. At the end of the day, the consumer will go with what's cheapest, and the educated consumer will go with what's cheapest over a couple of years, and nothing the polar bears have to say about it will stop them.[/QUOTE]
But the issue here is that most people don't build computers in their spare time and wouldn't know how much energy a pre-built machine would be sucking back. The electricity that good be saved in advancements to efficiency may be small to the single consumer, but on a country wide basis could be huge. Making this technology affordable to consumers would come eventually.
[QUOTE=Megafan;38014725]Because The fox is claiming this another in a supposed long line of measures to destroy the freedom of the peoples of Europe.[/quote]
Of which I have posted numerous of sources to; From destroying fish to keep the prices up to violating the freedom of speech and privacy on the Internet; To the heads of state saying that a European Union will threaten the democracy of the whole of Europe. But I guess you can just convientionaly avoid that alltogether.
Once again, here you go;
[quote]
Afraid the EU simply adores sticking their hands into places they do not absolutely belong in; Which is a shame. Free travel, transportation of goods and work is fine and dandy, but micromanaging shit like this is just moving towards fascism, where a central organ controls everything, akin to the Soviet Union.
Irregardless of what the people of FP believe; Now with sources of more idiocy from the EU; Quoted from the other page;
[QUOTE=The fox;38011257]EU legislation overrides any juridisiction any individual country has within the EU. The EU can also impose heavy fines or other penalties upon its members, depending on what the infraction is.
Among many of the bad decisions the EU have made; Here are a few, I will update as I find them;
"EU Bans testing cows and other animals for deadly diseases" - [url]http://www.svd.se/opinion/brannpunkt/eu-beslut-oppnar-for-farliga-djursjukdomar_7552342.svd#article-comments[/url] "The EU is demanding that Sweden stops testing animals for deadly diseases, as they believe this infractions upon the free movement of goods within the Eurozone."
"EU Destroys 17,000 tonnes of fish and other maritime food" - [url]http://www.svt.se/nyheter/varlden/eu-forstorde-17-000-ton-fisk-och-skaldjur[/url] "17,000 tonnes of maritime food was bought up by the fishing department of the EU during 2009, only to be disposed of as waste"
"EU Superstate threatens European democracy" - [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9559937/Vclav-Klaus-warns-that-the-destruction-of-Europes-democracy-may-be-in-its-final-phase.html[/url]
"EU Threatens the sovereignity of the Internet, freedom of speech, anonomity" [url]http://www.edri.org/cleanIT[/url], [url]http://henrikalexandersson.blogspot.ch/2012/09/cleanit-annu-ett-hot-mot-natets-frihet.html?showComment=1348386367945#c3197051722305932116[/url]
"EU considering imposing further fees on Cloud based services" - [url]http://computersweden.idg.se/2.2683/1.468522[/url] "The EU commission is opening up for further fees to be added upon cloud based service; As the already imposed fees on empty CDs, hard drives etc"
"Proposed law to outlaw holocaust denial" - [url]http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?val=537581[/url][/quote][/quote]
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;38014756]But the issue here is that most people don't build computers in their spare time and wouldn't know how much energy a pre-built machine would be sucking back.[/QUOTE]
Prebuilts also don't utilize high end graphics cards, so your entire point is moot.
If the EU was aggressively pushing for efficient PSUs, then you would have a point, and I would be right in line agreeing that it is good. This legislation is targeted at 300 dollar GPUs from what I'm reading, and that's a bleeding edge market that by its very definition of being bleeding edge and heavily experimental is going to reek of inefficiency in manufacturing and cost of use. That's the price you pay for rapid progress. Except that you don't ultimately 'pay' for it because it's such a niche part of the market. Once the tech gets refined it trickles down into stupidly efficient designs that the average consumer uses, and their savings CRUSH anything that even people running rendering farms for buttcoins could ever hope to outweigh.
It's probably just to stop the amount of houses that burn down from overheating nVidia cards, and AMD is caught in the middle of it!
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38014780]Prebuilts also don't utilize high end graphics cards, so your entire point is moot.[/QUOTE]
no, but this graphic card regulation is an obvious starting point to more power usage caps concerning other components of computers. The regulation also applies to integrated graphics cards, which are becoming more and more powerful with the boost in the laptop market.
Fox, please stop with this EU conspiracy. Unatco will find you.
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