• EU accused of crippling future graphics cards
    168 replies, posted
[QUOTE=deltasquid;38017473]I've been there. At some point in the 2000's, not paying taxes became a badge of honour in Greece. Fun fact: if a Greek building is showing signs of still being under construction, it is not taxed. That's why every single building in Greece looks like they're still building something extra on top of the roof or it has a few beams sticking out from the roof. Same thing with empty swimming pools perpetually being under construction. And now they're mad at the EU. So yeah.[/QUOTE] AFAIK the part with no taxation for the buildings under construction got removed not too long ago. I've seen a lot of "half done" buildings actually getting finished lately. [editline]13th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=McGii;38017897]how bout the part where no game really maxes out the current gen cards, and even the most hardcore ones don't look and different if you run them on lower settings when you are actually playing. [editline]13th October 2012[/editline] above 60 you can't even see the difference on a 60hz monitor[/QUOTE] You might not see it, but you can still feel it, because the input is still processed faster.
[QUOTE=McGii;38017897]how bout the part where no game really maxes out the current gen cards, and even the most hardcore ones don't look and different if you run them on lower settings when you are actually playing. [editline]13th October 2012[/editline] above 60 you can't even see the difference on a 60hz monitor[/QUOTE] Your stupid just broke my local universe.
[QUOTE=Robbis_1;38017929]AFAIK the part with no taxation for the buildings under construction got removed not too long ago. I've seen a lot of "half done" buildings actually getting finished lately.[/QUOTE] Oh, thank God. That was so easy to abuse, it isn't even funny. Now they also need to make sure everyone actually pays their taxes and the bureaucracy is more efficient. There's tales of people having died 20 years ago and the family still getting pensions. Also the people getting out of their cars at the highway tolls to raise the barrier and drive on. That's silly as well.
I think it was fisherman who don't even have taxes for *some* reason.
how dare the eu hold back us gamers death to the eu
I'm welcoming their goals but I am sceptic about the means, surely measuring data throughput against power consumption is a very inappropiate way to do this!? [editline]13th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SEKCobra;38018028]I think it was fisherman who don't even have taxes for *some* reason.[/QUOTE] To keep them in buisiness. Fun thing, that destroyed pretty much all viable sourvces of fish of the northwest African coast (out of the 200 miles radius of course) and similar stuff created the little pirate problem we have in Somalia right now.
[QUOTE=Bomimo;38017978]Your stupid just broke my local universe.[/QUOTE] Good because that means you'll fuck off with your shit posting
[QUOTE=McGii;38018134]Good because that means you'll fuck off with your shit posting[/QUOTE] At least i'm not misleading with stupid shit posts about shit i know nothing about. GPU's are easy to max out. What were you even saying that for? Are you religious?
[QUOTE=The fox;38011257]EU legislation overrides any juridisiction any individual country has within the EU. The EU can also impose heavy fines or other penalties upon its members, depending on what the infraction is. [/QUOTE] The UK ignores a lot of EU proposals. For example, we still use the pound. The EU doesn't win every dick-waving contest there is, you know.
Well what do you know, this article just might be the worst case of shitty sensationalistic journalism that I've ever seen, and boy have they stirred up a shitstorm. The first thing that set off my bullshit meter is that no one in their right mind would actually impose limits on maximum performance that computer hardware can achieve, especially considering that performance can be of great use in scientific research and many other non-everyday entertainment uses. Let alone using memory bandwidth as a performance metric not making sense at all. So I decided to check out the link with the supposed specification of Eco design lot 3 that they posted. [url]http://extra.ivf.se/ecocomputer/downloads/Eup%20Lot%203%20Final%20Report%20070913%20published.pdf[/url] Turns out that link isn't actually the proposed legislation, but rather just an outdated preparatory study from 2007 which assesses the possibilities for improvements in power consumption in PCs. So I searched and found the actual drafts of the regulation here: [url]http://www.eup-network.de/product-groups/overview-ecodesign/[/url] [url]http://www.eup-network.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Computers-Draft-Regulation-subject-to-ISC.PDF[/url] - This is the document regarding PCs and monitors. Reading through it, I found nothing resembling what the nordichardware article mentioned. (give me some time to post relevant quotes) [editline]13th October 2012[/editline] First things first, the document deals only with off, sleep and idle power consumption, they use this as a metric of annual consumption: [QUOTE]ETEC shall be determined using the following formula: ETEC = (8760/1000) * (0.55*Poff + 0.05*Psleep + 0.40*Pidle). For computers that lack a discrete sleep mode, but have an idle state power demand less than or equal to 10.00 W, power in idle state (Pidle) may be used in place of sleep (Psleep) in the above equation, such that the formula is replaced by ETEC = (8760/1000) * (0.55*Poff + 0.45*Pidle) All Px are power values in the indicated mode/state as defined in the definition section, measured in Watts (W) according to the procedures indicated in Annex III.[/QUOTE] [editline]13th October 2012[/editline] PCs are then split into different categories by their capabilities, category D being the only one concerning serious gaming machines. [QUOTE](iv) ʻCategory Dʼ desktop computer means a desktop computer with: (a) a minimum four physical cores in the CPU, and (b) a configuration of a minimum of one of the following two characteristics: – a minimum of four gigabytes (GB) of system memory, and/or EN 6 EN – a discrete GPU meeting the G3 (with FB Data Width >128-bit), G4, G5, G6 or G7 classification.[/QUOTE] They have stated a requirement that such computer should have an Etec value of at most 234, BUT that value is actually increased for any discrete graphics cards you have installed, for example you get an extra 225 allowance for a G7 level GPU, meaning a total allowed Etec of 234+225 = 459 To put this into perspective, say you have a gaming PC that consumes 100W in idle, 10W in sleep and 2W when off Etec = 8.76 * (0.55*2 + 0.05 * 10 + 0.4 * 100) = 364.416 That is a number well below the allowed maximum. There is no mention of limiting peak power draw in that document whatsoever, so the requirements seem perfectly reasonable.
[QUOTE=BorisJ;38018363]The UK ignores a lot of EU proposals. For example, we still use the pound. The EU doesn't win every dick-waving contest there is, you know.[/QUOTE] Hee Hee. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_European_Union_opt-outs_referendum"]EU member with benefits :v:[/URL] Sweden is jealous.
And it should be mentioned that G1 - G7 is only a way of splitting GPUs in different categories, using the memory bandwidth as a metric (not the best choice, but I guess it works since more powerful GPUs usually have a higher bandwidth). Again no mention that they actually want to limit the total GPU bandwidth (like that would make any sense at all) [QUOTE]Discrete Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) categories: (i) G1 (FB_BW &#8804; 16); (ii) G2 (16< FB_BW &#8804; 32); (iii) G3 (32 <FB_BW &#8804; 64); (iv) G4 (64 <FB_BW &#8804; 96); (v) G5 (96 <FB_BW &#8804; 128); (vi) G6 (FB_BW > 128 (with FB Data Width < 192-bit)); (vii) G7 (FB_BW > 128 (with FB Data Width &#8805; 192-bit)).[/QUOTE] 30 months after it comes into effect the regulation will become tighter, allowing an Etec of only 136 for a G7 category GPU, meaning the maximum Etec for a high end single gpu system is 370, which is still reasonable, especially considering how efficient PC components are in idle nowadays and will probably improve even more in the future. [editline]13th October 2012[/editline] Here is the whole relevant section of the document that applies to desktop PCs [img]http://shrani.si/f/1t/Lt/49Obn50d/etec.png[/img] [editline]13th October 2012[/editline] Another interesting bit I found in the document is that they will basically enforce the 80+ bronze standard for all PC PSUs above 75W, which is a good thing if you ask me. It's going to force all the manufacturers to sell efficient PSUs and is even going to save uninformed customers some money if they usually don't care about the efficiency of the PSU they're buying .
[QUOTE=pebkac;38018610]Another interesting bit I found in the document is that they will basically enforce the 80+ bronze standard for all PC PSUs above 75W, which is a good thing if you ask me. It's going to force all the manufacturers to sell efficient PSUs and is even going to save uninformed customers some money if they usually don't care about the efficiency of the PSU they're buying .[/QUOTE] This I can get behind, as the savings by going from a 70% efficient unit to a 82% efficient unit are covered within a year of even lightweight use.
So basically... A biased article that doesn't know their shit is spreading misinformation?
I would rather the world flood than not be able to play games with high framerates. How evil does this make me I wonder?
[QUOTE=entertainer89;38023336]I would rather the world flood than not be able to play games with high framerates. How evil does this make me I wonder?[/QUOTE] Quite. Not to mention, rather dumb. Aside from anything else, your gaming time will go straight down the drain if you are selling your ass for a loaf of bread or being conscripted for a water war. And you didn't read the posts above you.
[QUOTE=Van-man;38017397]AFAIK right winger mentality is blossoming in Sweden due to the recession. They like to blame immigrants and [I]"big brother"[/I] (the EU to them) for it. While they're completely ignoring the banking and investing industry that actually caused it. [B]EDIT:[/B] Forgot to mention, [B]PROPER[/B] regulation of the banking and investing industry could've prevented the global recession, but [I]nooooo[/I], EU is [I]BAAAAAAD M'kaaayyy[/I][/QUOTE] Ehh, granted I don't get much news of anything these days, but I'm half swedish, live in Denmark, and while there has been a rise in the amount of social-conservatives, you make it sound like people are yelling Hitler all around. That's not the case, it has increased a bit in both Denmark and Sweden, but nothing like you're making it out to be. There has always been anti-EU people, there's just a bit more now.
So someone has found this link, which is an industry response to the draft: [url]http://www.digitaleurope.org/Portals/0/Documents/ENV/EcoDesign/DIGITALEUROPE%20Response%20Draft%20Regulation%20ErP%20Lot%203_20120801.pdf[/url] I guess there is some truth in companies not being completely happy with it, it seems they want a little bit more leeway in terms of allowed power consumption for gpus and some other minor adjustments. I thought most current gen hardware was already below those limits, but whatever. The response seems to be backed by pretty much every major tech company, so they'll probably listen to it.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.