Yet Another Green on Blue Attack in Western Afghanistan - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37295584]not everyone but a significant part of the population. you might be providing income to communities but i think that's evened out by all of the people that are dying as well? if not now then why 10 months ago, it's not as if the afghanistan conflict is "new"[/QUOTE] It had been a lifelong goal of mine to join the military. I joined to set up a solid future for myself, as well as to become a pilot. If I choose to get out in six years (I won't) I could easily get a job with a large corporation earning an insane amount of money. I am currently a crew chief for OH-58D helicopters, a good springboard for that goal. I also joined because both of my parents were military, as well as a large number of my relatives. Also, what you think is not what actually goes on. It is like everyone here has never heard of ROE.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;37295622]It had been a lifelong goal of mine to join the military. I joined to set up a solid future for myself, as well as to become a pilot. If I choose to get out in six years (I won't) I could easily get a job with a large corporation earning an insane amount of money. I am currently a crew chief for OH-58D helicopters, a good springboard for that goal. I also joined because both of my parents were military, as well as a large number of my relatives. Also, what you think is not what actually goes on. It is like everyone here has never heard of ROE.[/QUOTE] did the actual motivations and effects of the war have any influence on your decision to enlist and support those actions

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37295645]did the actual motivations and effects of the war have any influence on your decision to enlist and support those actions[/QUOTE] Not really. I just wanted to enlist (or commission, but enlist won out) in an Aviation career field, doing something I love. I just accepted deployment as a duty. I will go wherever the Army orders me to, it is my job and duty as a Soldier. Whatever motivation behind the conflict is of minor concern to me; What is a larger concern is protecting my fellow Soldiers while getting the mission we are assigned done.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37295584]not everyone but a significant part of the population. you might be providing income to communities but i think that's evened out by all of the people that are dying as well? if not now then why 10 months ago, it's not as if the afghanistan conflict is "new"[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/behind-the-numbers/StandingArt/BTN_graphic032112.jpg?uuid=-hY1TnOXEeGYuGqHlh5b6w[/img] [quote]But even after the drop in popularity, America was seen much more positively than its arch enemy: the Taliban. Nearly nine in 10 gave unfavorable marks to Afghanistan’s former leaders, with two-thirds seeing the Taliban “very” unfavorably.[/quote] [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/behind-the-numbers/post/afghan-people-once-supported-war-but-do-they-now/2012/03/07/gIQAf0gQSS_blog.html[/url] Finding a source on this is a LOT harder than it should be. Every news source is citing how [i]we[/i] feel about the Afghanistan war, when the Afghans are the ones who should really matter.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;37295702]Not really. I just wanted to enlist (or commission, but enlist won out) in an Aviation career field, doing something I love. I just accepted deployment as a duty. I will go wherever the Army orders me to, it is my job and duty as a Soldier. Whatever motivation behind the conflict is of minor concern to me; What is a larger concern is protecting my fellow Soldiers while getting the mission we are assigned done.[/QUOTE] did you ever consider that you didn't have any obligation to just "go where the army tells you" before enlisting? like you had a chance to say "eh i dont really want to go do this because its wrong" so saying the motivation and effects of the conflict was of minor concern seems like "i dont have any moral obligations when choosing my career"

[QUOTE=SKEEA;37295702]What is a larger concern is protecting my fellow Soldiers while getting the mission we are assigned done.[/QUOTE] The cause you would be fighting for was of little significance to you? Isn't that the logic of mercenaries? But that's okay because dad and gramps were in the marines so you better pack up your broohooves T-Shirts and join the marines to kill the Afghans.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37295768]The cause you would be fighting for was of little significance to you? Isn't that the logic of mercenaries? But that's okay because dad and gramps were in the marines so you better pack up your broohooves T-Shirts and join the marines to kill the Afghans.[/QUOTE] emotional appeal

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37295723]did you ever consider that you didn't have any obligation to just "go where the army tells you" before enlisting? like you had a chance to say "eh i dont really want to go do this because its wrong" so saying the motivation and effects of the conflict was of minor concern seems like "i dont have any moral obligations when choosing my career"[/QUOTE] I can't explain feeling the call of duty to a civilian. It is something that you have to experience. I thought about those things, though I came to the same conclusion, and that is that I felt I had a duty to myself and to my country to join the military, not to mention it turned an average 19 year old into a highly trained professional helicopter mechanic. When you are in the military, you don't fight for some politician's cause, you fight for the person next to you.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;37295814]I can't explain feeling the call of duty to a civilian. It is something that you have to experience. I thought about those things, though I came to the same conclusion, and that is that I felt I had a duty to myself and to my country to join the military, not to mention it turned an average 19 year old into a highly trained professional helicopter mechanic. When you are in the military, you don't fight for some politician's cause, you fight for the person next to you.[/QUOTE] yeah.. but the underlying point is that when you chose to enlist, you chose to support and aide in causing whatever effects the war has had on afghanistan and other affected nations. so despite the feelgood "call of duty" and military companionship you felt after enlisting, did you ever feel any sort of obligation to not contribute to unjust military operations that cause harm to so many people? ie was there anything that could possibly override being raised and taught that you had a duty to join the military without questioning what effect that would have on the world

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37295768]The cause you would be fighting for was of little significance to you? Isn't that the logic of mercenaries? But that's okay because dad and gramps were in the marines so you better pack up your broohooves T-Shirts and join the marines to kill the Afghans.[/QUOTE] That is pretty fucked up. First of all, I joined the Army as a Soldier, not a damn jarhead. Second, I joined to get technical experience, not to "hurr durr kill brown people". In fact, have never ever met anybody who joined for that reason, even Infantry and Special Forces. Having a proud military tradition is important to me, as my mother and father were both in the Air Force, my grandfather (rest his soul) in the Army, and my other grandfather (rest his soul) was Army as well. Hell, my mother didn't want me to join, but I did because I felt the call, as well as knowing that it was a way to realize my dreams. How many other 19 year olds do you know that work on aircraft worth millions of dollars, and didn't have to pay any money for the training? So you can take your snide comments elsewhere, they really don't have any place in rational discourse. [editline]17th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;37295837]yeah.. but the underlying point is that when you chose to enlist, you chose to support and aide in causing whatever effects the war has had on afghanistan and other affected nations. so despite the feelgood "call of duty" and military companionship you felt after enlisting, did you ever feel any sort of obligation to not contribute to unjust military operations that cause harm to so many people? ie was there anything that could possibly override being raised and taught that you had a duty to join the military without questioning what effect that would have on the world[/QUOTE] Like I explained in my above post, my family didn't pressure me into joining at all. It was a decision I made by myself. Secondly, your second statement is purely your opinion. I believe in OEF's mission, which is to harry the Taliban and provide aid and infrastructure to civilians. We have been pretty good about setting up schools, hospitals, and roads for them. We provided safety where there wasn't previously in some places in Afghanistan. Now, that it is time for us to leave, the mission is to secure the pullout. Also, I think you forget that I am a private first class. Being a private is to be at the lowest on the totem pole. I can't ever make any grandiose or meaningful impact on anything really.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;37295854]That is pretty fucked up. First of all, I joined the Army as a Soldier, not a damn jarhead. Second, I joined to get technical experience, not to "hurr durr kill brown people"[/quote] There are a LOT of ways you can get "technical experience" that doesn't entail you playing soldier. [quote]In fact, have never ever met anybody who joined for that reason, even Infantry and Special Forces.[/quote] Doesn't mean they don't exist. And they certainly exist. [quote]Having a proud military tradition is important to me, as my mother and father were both in the Air Force, my grandfather (rest his soul) in the Army, and my other grandfather (rest his soul) was Army as well.[/quote] So you're joining just because your family is involved? You can't think for yourself? Well you're joining the military so that answers that question. [quote]Hell, my mother didn't want me to join, but I did because I felt the call, as well as knowing that it was a way to realize my dreams. [/quote] You're saying "felt the call" like it's some sort of spiritual being that inhabits people. [quote]How many other 19 year olds do you know that work on aircraft worth millions of dollars and didn't have to pay any money for the training? [/quote] So what? I'm more concerned the amount of money that stuff is taking from. Sod your social status of working on expensive machinery. [quote]So you can take your snide comments elsewhere, they really don't have any place in rational discourse.[/QUOTE] You're telling me you're joining an organisation, an unequivocally evil organisation, based on a "feeling" of duty or indegestion or whatever, ignoring all rationality for it, and you want to say I have no place in rational discourse? You live in a culture obsessed with its military, and it's obvious you're running on that. But why try to justify it? And then say you don't care about the cause. That's messed up, mate. Like, honestly, you're in an organisation that is used for war and you don't care about the cause? Does that not sound the least bit messed up?

What is wrong with you? Not all soldiers are mindless baby killers.

[QUOTE=KommradKommisar;37295965]What is wrong with you? Not all soldiers are mindless baby killers.[/QUOTE] No one said they were, please read the topic before commenting. How do you choose that stance to argue against? It's not like the ONLY two arguments are "military are freedom fighters" and "military 100% kill and rape babies".

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37295921]There are a LOT of ways you can get "technical experience" that doesn't entail you playing soldier. Doesn't mean they don't exist. And they certainly exist. So you're joining just because your family is involved? You can't think for yourself? Well you're joining the military so that answers that question. You're saying "felt the call" like it's some sort of spiritual being that inhabits people. So what? I'm more concerned the amount of money that stuff is taking from. Sod your social status of working on expensive machinery. You're telling me you're joining an organisation, an unequivocally evil organisation, based on a "feeling" of duty or indegestion or whatever, ignoring all rationality for it, and you want to say I have no place in rational discourse?[/QUOTE] I will attempt to answer your incredibly biased responses in the best way I can, even though I know nothing what I say will ever make you satisfied. Let's begin. 1. I realize that I could have gone elsewhere for technical training. However, that would have cost me tens of thousands of dollars that I simply don't have. I come from a family that does not have a whole lot of money, so it would have been impossible. Also, you don't "play" Soldier, it is something that you ARE. 2. Like I said, I really have never met anyone with this mentality. I think you forget that the Army does regular mental screening, as well as people think it is crazy to join for that reason alone. Nowadays the main reason is that people can't find jobs and want a way to pay for college. 3. Where did I EVER say anything of the sort? I came to feel those things and come to those conclusions completely on my own. Like I said, my mother didn't even want me to join, and never pushed joining. She left me to make my own decisions in life. 4. It really is something that people feel. In BCT there was this 29 year old car repair shop owner that joined because he "felt the call". He was moderately wealthy, had everything going for him, had amazing connections, and he joined the Army to go through OCS. Like I said, it is something that you can't explain to people, you just feel it. 5. Be concerned about whatever you want, I am content with my job choice. 6. "Unequivically evil?" Really? That is an incredibly prejudiced statement. I can't even begin to fathom how to respond to a statement that ignorant. This is exactly why I said my bit about rational discourse.

Whatever we did accomplish over there....it wasn't worth the cost

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37295921]There are a LOT of ways you can get "technical experience" that doesn't entail you playing soldier. Doesn't mean they don't exist. And they certainly exist. So you're joining just because your family is involved? You can't think for yourself? Well you're joining the military so that answers that question. You're saying "felt the call" like it's some sort of spiritual being that inhabits people. So what? I'm more concerned the amount of money that stuff is taking from. Sod your social status of working on expensive machinery. You're telling me you're joining an organisation, an unequivocally evil organisation, based on a "feeling" of duty or indegestion or whatever, ignoring all rationality for it, and you want to say I have no place in rational discourse? You live in a culture obsessed with its military, and it's obvious you're running on that. But why try to justify it? And then say you don't care about the cause. That's messed up, mate. Like, honestly, you're in an organisation that is used for war and you don't care about the cause? Does that not sound the least bit messed up?[/QUOTE] What are you doing? [editline]17th August 2012[/editline] SKEEA's probably done more with his life already than you ever will. I don't know what you expect to gain by calling him a mindless baby killer, but you aren't changing anyone's mind right now. There's absolutely nothing wrong with serving your country. If you're unhappy with the politics blame the politicians, not the soldiers.

[QUOTE]You live in a culture obsessed with its military, and it's obvious you're running on that. But why try to justify it? And then say you don't care about the cause. That's messed up, mate. Like, honestly, you're in an organisation that is used for war and you don't care about the cause? Does that not sound the least bit messed up?[/QUOTE] Nice edit. Anyways, I said that the cause of the conflict is of minor concern to me due to the fact that we have a duty to deploy anyways, so I made peace with that part of it and focused on the one thing that Soldiers believe in: Other Soldiers. I didn't choose to fight because of 9/11. I chose to fight to make sure that my buddies made it home alive, simple as that. It does not do for me to dwell on that which I cannot control. Also, I clearly explained why I joined earlier, not because we have a militarily obsessed culture. I explain everything pretty clearly in my "Ask an Army Crew Chief Anything" thread in fast threads as well.

[QUOTE=DamagePoint;37296053]What are you doing? [editline]17th August 2012[/editline] SKEEA's probably done more with his life already than you ever will. I don't know what you expect to gain by calling him a mindless baby killer, but you aren't changing anyone's mind right now. There's absolutely nothing wrong with serving your country. If you're unhappy with the politics blame the politicians, not the soldiers.[/QUOTE] aside from the usual emotional appeal to join the army, the US army is known to exploit people's natural sense of invulnerability at an certain age, mainly during adolescence that's a pretty shitty reason to join some military force

[QUOTE=DamagePoint;37296053]What are you doing? [editline]17th August 2012[/editline] SKEEA's probably done more with his life already than you ever will. I don't know what you expect to gain by calling him a mindless baby killer, but you aren't changing anyone's mind right now. There's absolutely nothing wrong with serving your country. If you're unhappy with the politics blame the politicians, not the soldiers.[/QUOTE] i dont agree with governor but um i dont think servicemen/women are waived their moral responsibilities just because they dont throw darts at a map and choose where to invade. you chose to enlist and assuming the conflict was active during the time of your enlistment it's not like it's a surprise that you're invading afghanistan, so if you don't want to be judged for being a direct supporter and contributor to the war you should reconsider enlisting just to "serve your country" [editline]18th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SKEEA;37296107]Nice edit. Anyways, I said that [B]the cause of the conflict is of minor concern to me due to the fact that we have a duty to deploy anyways[/B], so I made peace with that part of it and focused on the one thing that Soldiers believe in: Other Soldiers. I didn't choose to fight because of 9/11. I chose to fight to make sure that my buddies made it home alive, simple as that. It does not do for me to dwell on that which I cannot control. Also, I clearly explained why I joined earlier, not because we have a militarily obsessed culture. I explain everything pretty clearly in my "Ask an Army Crew Chief Anything" thread in fast threads as well.[/QUOTE] yeah see this is what is concerning you don't have this mystical duty to deploy, you have a duty to be a decent human being that abides by certain moral codes, so if enlisting violates those codes or the morals of another person, be ready to be judged for your actions. clearly you support the afghanistan conflict (i completely disagree and think its awful) but whatever at least you're not a hypocrite, but saying "i have to enlist whether i agree or not" is way stupid and definitely shouldn't be the mindset of any american

[QUOTE=Ownederd;37296111]aside from the usual emotional appeal to join the army, the US army is known to exploit people's natural sense of invulnerability at an certain age, mainly during adolescence that's a pretty shitty reason to join some military force[/QUOTE] Ownederd makes a great point. Effectively this is what I'm saying. The military prays on people who are more than likely to join based on hardships and invulnerability. That predatory nature in itself is wrong. To say the military is free of any issues, down to the level of a foot soldier is absolutely insane.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37296128]i dont agree with governor but um i dont think servicemen/women are waived their moral responsibilities just because they dont throw darts at a map and choose where to invade. you chose to enlist and assuming the conflict was active during the time of your enlistment it's not like it's a surprise that you're invading afghanistan, so if you don't want to be judged for being a direct supporter and contributor to the war you should reconsider enlisting just to "serve your country" [editline]18th August 2012[/editline] yeah see this is what is concerning you don't have this mystical duty to deploy, you have a duty to be a decent human being that abides by certain moral codes, so if enlisting violates those codes or the morals of another person, be ready to be judged for your actions. clearly you support the afghanistan conflict (i completely disagree and think its awful) but whatever at least you're not a hypocrite, but saying "i have to enlist whether i agree or not" is way stupid and definitely shouldn't be the mindset of any american[/QUOTE] I never said that I had to enlist whether or not I agree. No one is forced to enlist, we are an all volunteer military. Also, I never said that I felt that I was invulnerable to being judged, nor discouraging people from judging me. I enlisted because I wanted to become a pilot someday, it really all boils down to that. As for my "duty to deploy" line, you misunderstood what I was trying to say. It was more of a technical thing. If we are ordered to deploy, you can't refuse. Deployments are something that you are obligated to do, and if we don't, we will be dealt with accordingly with the UCMJ. That is what I meant by "duty to deploy".

[QUOTE=DamagePoint;37296053]What are you doing?[/quote] Making posts with substance, you should try it. [quote]SKEEA's probably done more with his life already than you ever will.[/quote] I HIGHLY fucking doubt that. He fixes planes that go kill people, I spend my day working in an ambulance. And that is the tip of the fucking ice berg. Do NOT make implications about my life based SOLELY on your fucked up romanticism of the military. Or are you one of those people who look at a man who saves orphans from a burning fire every single day then look at some 18 year old poor kid who joined the marines and say "Well CLEARLY the marine is more of a hero, fuck that other guy"? [quote]I don't know what you expect to gain by calling him a mindless baby killer, but you aren't changing anyone's mind right now. [/quote] Please, PLEASE quote me where I said he was a mindless baby killer - I will fucking pay you to find that. [quote]There's absolutely nothing wrong with serving your country.[/quote] There is if the country has awful interests. [quote]If you're unhappy with the politics blame the politicians, not the soldiers.[/QUOTE] Uh, no dude, you can't say with a straight face the VOLUNTEER soldiers are not to blame. Don't give me that bullshit. They're as much to blame as anyone else. If they want to submit themselves and lose their individuality so they can go fight for KBR then that's fine, but don't you dare absolve them of blame.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;37296208]I never said that I had to enlist whether or not I agree. [B]No one is forced to enlist, we are an all volunteer military.[/B] Also, I never said that I felt that I was invulnerable to being judged, nor discouraging people from judging me. I enlisted because I wanted to become a pilot someday, it really all boils down to that. As for my "duty to deploy" line, you misunderstood what I was trying to say. It was more of a technical thing. If we are ordered to deploy, you can't refuse. Deployments are something that you are obligated to do, and if we don't, we will be dealt with accordingly with the UCMJ. That is what I meant by "duty to deploy".[/QUOTE] heh not during the vietnam or korean wars gotta fite the evil commies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37296159]Ownederd makes a great point. Effectively this is what I'm saying. The military prays on people who are more than likely to join based on hardships and invulnerability. That predatory nature in itself is wrong. To say the military is free of any issues, down to the level of a foot soldier is absolutely insane.[/QUOTE] I think you would be surprised at how many people the Army turns away. You can't just go to your recruiting station and then be on a plane the next day to BCT. You have to meet a certain standard for physical fitness, aptitude (think ASVAB, you have to get above pretty much a 40 in order to even have a chance nowadays), and mental stability (not likely to go crazy and shoot everyone, or be depressed, or having depression, etc.) to join. I also never said that the military is free of issues. It is full of them. However, these issues apply only to military personnel, civilians just can't understand them. [editline]17th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ownederd;37296237]heh not during the vietnam or korean wars gotta fite the evil commies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE] That was a long time ago. The current military is made up of nothing but volunteers. There is likely never to be another draft.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;37296208]I never said that I had to enlist whether or not I agree. No one is forced to enlist, we are an all volunteer military. Also, I never said that I felt that I was invulnerable to being judged, nor discouraging people from judging me. I enlisted because I wanted to become a pilot someday, it really all boils down to that. As for my "duty to deploy" line, you misunderstood what I was trying to say. It was more of a technical thing. If we are ordered to deploy, you can't refuse. Deployments are something that you are obligated to do, and if we don't, we will be dealt with accordingly with the UCMJ. That is what I meant by "duty to deploy".[/QUOTE] [quote]the cause of the conflict is of minor concern to me due to the fact that we have a duty to deploy anyways[/quote] when you say stuff like this i kinda assume it is in regards to you serving but if you literally mean a duty to deploy then that's meaningless and really not worth mentioning because while you have a duty to deploy you don't have a duty to [B]enlist[/B] which is what i had assumed you were talking about in the first place. i guess this is all meaningless to talk about though now because you apparently for whatever incomprehensible reason support the war in Afghanistan but my point throughout this entire discussion was that joining the military without any regard for the impact your enlistment has (your rank is meaningless, by way of joining and operating within the military you are supporting the war and everything that results from it) isn't excusable just by saying "i felt the call of duty..", and imo its even worse when you say you're just going for college or to be a pilot because you're putting self interest over the impact of a massive military conflict that causes so much damage and destruction in a foreign nation [QUOTE=SKEEA;37296264]I think you would be surprised at how many people the Army turns away. You can't just go to your recruiting station and then be on a plane the next day to BCT. You have to meet a certain standard for physical fitness, aptitude (think ASVAB, you have to get above pretty much a 40 in order to even have a chance nowadays), and mental stability (not likely to go crazy and shoot everyone, or be depressed, or having depression, etc.) to join. I also never said that the military is free of issues. It is full of them. [B]However, these issues apply only to military personnel, civilians just can't understand them.[/B] [editline]17th August 2012[/editline] That was a long time ago. The current military is made up of nothing but volunteers. There is likely never to be another draft.[/QUOTE] yeah you need to pass training but that doesn't invalidate the fact that the military recruiting process purposefully preys on those who are in difficult situations or who have no route other than the military. they exploit feelings of invulnerability, overconfidence and adventure, and offer people that are struggling in life a way out if they sign a paper to act as a human shield for whatever ridiculous politically-motivated operations they concoct. also @ bold, could you explain these issues instead of doing this annoying "you civilians would never understand.." thing

Also, I don't have a false sense of invulnerability. I am perfectly aware that at any given moment over there a bullet could slam into my brain or a mortar round can turn me into human hamburger. I just have accepted it as one of the risks of the job. [editline]17th August 2012[/editline] Argh broke my automerge.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37296220]Uh, no dude, you can't say with a straight face the VOLUNTEER soldiers are not to blame. Don't give me that bullshit. They're as much to blame as anyone else. If they want to submit themselves and lose their individuality so they can go fight for KBR then that's fine, but don't you dare absolve them of blame.[/QUOTE] You do realize in the U.S. the cost of getting a higher education is so high that many people have no choice [i]but[/i] joining the military if they want to have a shot at getting a job that's not some shitty job like plumbing or flipping burgers? Believe it or not a large part of the military thinks we shouldn't be in Afghanistan and should have never there in the first place, but the way the system is set up in the U.S. joining the military is often the only way of getting anywhere in life.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;37296264]I think you would be surprised at how many people the Army turns away. You can't just go to your recruiting station and then be on a plane the next day to BCT. You have to meet a certain standard for physical fitness, aptitude (think ASVAB, you have to get above pretty much a 40 in order to even have a chance nowadays), and mental stability (not likely to go crazy and shoot everyone, or be depressed, or having depression, etc.) to join. I also never said that the military is free of issues. It is full of them.[/quote] This has nothing to do with what I said. And for the record, the screening process is really shoddy, considering what I've seen from the military. [quote]However, these issues apply only to military personnel, civilians just can't understand them.[/quote] Civilians are forced to unload immense amount of money into your awful orginisation - So don't tell me civilians can't talk about them. And can't understand them? Are you fucking kidding me? Are you saying that every issue the US military has civilians are LITERALLY incapable of understanding them. What is with you military types and your mental treatment of the military like it's some sort of group that forgoes any meer understanding of humankind. And only those who transcend the bounds of normal humans can truly understand. Yeah, fuck no, I can understand the issues the military has more than most soldiers do by picking up a book and researching for 10 minutes. Your exclusiveness and arrogance about being in the military does not make you an expert on military affairs. Neither does me not being in the military make me unequivocally ignorant to it. This is like saying no civilian can comment on the economy because they're not economists. [quote]That was a long time ago. The current military is made up of nothing but volunteers. There is likely never to be another draft.[/QUOTE] Way your government is going, I won't be surprised if it did.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;37296111]aside from the usual emotional appeal to join the army, the US army is known to exploit people's natural sense of invulnerability at an certain age, mainly during adolescence that's a pretty shitty reason to join some military force[/QUOTE] I actually know a lot of people that joined the Army in their 40's, I do not believe the army was exploiting their sense of invulnerability. Job security and financial stability is actually a pretty fair reason for joining.

[QUOTE=DamagePoint;37296402]You do realize in the U.S. the cost of getting a higher education is so high that many people have no choice [i]but[/i] joining the military if they want to have a shot at getting a job that's not some shitty job like plumbing or flipping burgers? [/quote] I think it's about time you examine how your country operates [quote]Believe it or not a large part of the military thinks we shouldn't be in Afghanistan and should have never there in the first place, but the way the system is set up in the U.S. joining the military is often the only way of getting anywhere in life.[/QUOTE] And that's suppose to prove what? That the state of the US is so shitty they need to kill antagonised small brown people in order to survive? wow god bless america, you changed my mind. I lived in awful poverty for a large part of my life. Every cent I have matters. I live pay cheque to pay cheque, sometimes my pay cheque is completely empty before I can even use it. But somehow I manage to survive and get an education without having to resort to blowing away Afghans with an M16. Saying there are absolutely no other opportunities is preposterous.