[QUOTE=GunFox;25273910]A justice system based around punishment DOES NOT WORK.
I will say it again because people are fucking stupid:
A JUSTICE SYSTEM BASED AROUND PUNISHMENT *DOES NOT WORK*.
You do that and you get the US justice system. Which is as broken as broken can be.[/QUOTE]
I'll make this abundantly clear for those who seem to have missed it.
I would only want this performed for those who have without a shadow of a doubt committed murder in cold blood, raped someone or a similar crime that has irreparably damaged the lives of others. Those who have committed crimes like drug possession, petty theft and that sort of shit get standard current treatment or better.
If you have taken someones life without a valid reason, I would happily watch and smile as you get your tendons cut and watch you being mauled to death by a pack of dogs.
If you kill someone without valid reason, clearly showing you don't value the life of a fellow human being, tearing them away from their families and loved ones, then you've clearly shown you don't deserve any semblance of freedom, and as an act of justice and retribution I feel their lives should be stripped away from them slowly.
Yeah it's flawed, I know that but so is everything, but there is a simple solution. Don't kill/rape anyone and you have nothing to worry about.
[QUOTE=bravehat;25274226]I'll make this abundantly clear for those who seem to have missed it.
I would only want this performed for those who have without a shadow of a doubt committed murder in cold blood, raped someone or a similar crime that has irreparably damaged the lives of others. Those who have committed crimes like drug possession, petty theft and that sort of shit get standard current treatment or better.
If you have taken someones life without a valid reason, I would happily watch and smile as you get your tendons cut and watch you being mauled to death by a pack of dogs.
If you kill someone without valid reason, clearly showing you don't value the life of a fellow human being, tearing them away from their families and loved ones, then you've clearly shown you don't deserve any semblance of freedom, and as an act of justice and retribution I feel their lives should be stripped away from them slowly.
Yeah it's flawed, I know that but so is everything, but there is a simple solution. Don't kill/rape anyone and you have nothing to worry about.[/QUOTE]
You're horrible :ohdear:
[QUOTE=bravehat;25274226]I'll make this abundantly clear for those who seem to have missed it.
I would only want this performed for those who have without a shadow of a doubt committed murder in cold blood, raped someone or a similar crime that has irreparably damaged the lives of others. Those who have committed crimes like drug possession, petty theft and that sort of shit get standard current treatment or better.
If you have taken someones life without a valid reason, I would happily watch and smile as you get your tendons cut and watch you being mauled to death by a pack of dogs.
If you kill someone without valid reason, clearly showing you don't value the life of a fellow human being, tearing them away from their families and loved ones, then you've clearly shown you don't deserve any semblance of freedom, and as an act of justice and retribution I feel their lives should be stripped away from them slowly.
Yeah it's flawed, I know that but so is everything, but there is a simple solution. Don't kill/rape anyone and you have nothing to worry about.[/QUOTE]
It is an all or nothing system. The US started with a very French legal system modified by British common law, it worked pretty damn great. But then we decided that some people need to be punished. And now look at us. EVERYONE is punished. Taking away their liberty is more than sufficient.
[QUOTE=smurfy;25274308]You're horrible :ohdear:[/QUOTE]
Most people are dude, people act all nice on the surface, your average person is just as much of a cunt they just hate that part of themselves.
And Gunfox what I would want is something ridiculously well regimented and looked after, someone gets put into general population for a year or two while all the details of the case and all evidence is continuously examined and pieced together, then re examined and re pieced together, until the only logical explanation is that the murder was done for no good reason.
At that point they are thrown into permanent isolation with only a slit window to the outside world.
I don't care if it's cruel, I don't care if it's barbaric, I only care if it's fair, and honestly why should it be any other way?
Prisoners should be able to work while incarcerated and use that money to pay for some post secondary education while inside. Educate people so they have less reason to turn to crime again when they get out.
Optional, of course.
Think about it. When you go to prison you come out broke, jobless, and undesirable to employers. What else CAN you do but commit crime again?
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;25274980]Prisoners should be able to work while incarcerated and use that money to pay for some post secondary education while inside. Educate people so they have less reason to turn to crime again when they get out.
Optional, of course.
Think about it. When you go to prison you come out broke, jobless, and undesirable to employers. What else CAN you do but commit crime again?[/QUOTE]Why is most of facepunch smarter than most American voters?
I think they should be given a jail sentence and a work sentence.
Work sentence should depend on the jail sentence and the crime
The worse the crime, the lower the fraction of time they'll work, since working would be kind of a good thing.
If you're in there for a short time or are expected to die in there, you shouldn't get a job.
[QUOTE=TailsPrower;25279240]Why is most of facepunch smarter than most American voters?[/QUOTE]
christ no
this is zeke, he is smart on his own , he is not most of facepunch.
btw there are secondary education options in (some) prisons in america, if they have such programs
its just not widely known so we can claim the exact opposite i guess
The majority of Facepunch IS intelligent, they just tend to bandwagon. People are too afraid to post their real opinions anymore because they don't want to get little Xs and boxes from the 13 year olds who post
[QUOTE=bravehat;25274461]Most people are dude, people act all nice on the surface, your average person is just as much of a cunt they just hate that part of themselves.
And Gunfox what I would want is something ridiculously well regimented and looked after, someone gets put into general population for a year or two while all the details of the case and all evidence is continuously examined and pieced together, then re examined and re pieced together, until the only logical explanation is that the murder was done for no good reason.
At that point they are thrown into permanent isolation with only a slit window to the outside world.
I don't care if it's cruel, I don't care if it's barbaric, I only care if it's fair, and honestly why should it be any other way?[/QUOTE]
The system you propose would be the equivalent of a death penalty case or more for everyone convicted of rape or murder. This would end up costing far more than our current system and it would work far worse than our current system of incarceration; which is to say, very fucking poorly.
This system would be tyrannical, malicious and barbaric, it would additionally be completely fucking untenable to implement and cost enough that you could have a large panel of criminal psychologists along with supporting staff in each prison to facilitate the rehabilitation (or recognize the impossibility of) of all inmates.
But no, to you, it is better to spend the money on satisfying your primeval thirst for blood, your despicable lust for vengeance and your gluttony for legislating your moral code.
You sir, are an imbecile and a monster.
I like how half the people in this thread are going "RAWR THEY NEED TO BE PUNISHED FOR THEIR WICKED WAYS!!!!11" and the other half is going "lets lend these poor souls a helping hand and give them jobs while at the same time not doing anything to fix the crime in the first place". To the people who want to "rehabilitate" prisoners, don't you think people would eventually start committing crimes to get into prison if you made it so good for the prisoners? A lot of these people come from poorer areas don't they? Also to the people who say they need to be punished that is in no way how a prison system should work, the only people who should be "punished" by life in prison or execution are the people who we know can't change, like multiple offenders.
[QUOTE=SM0K3 B4N4N4;25281572]I like how half the people in this thread are going "RAWR THEY NEED TO BE PUNISHED FOR THEIR WICKED WAYS!!!!11" and the other half is going "lets lend these poor souls a helping hand and give them jobs while at the same time not doing anything to fix the crime in the first place". To the people who want to "rehabilitate" prisoners, don't you think people would eventually start committing crimes to get into prison if you made it so good for the prisoners? A lot of these people come from poorer areas don't they? Also to the people who say they need to be punished that is in no way how a prison system should work, the only people who should be "punished" by life in prison or execution are the people who we know can't change, like multiple offenders.[/QUOTE]
Rehabilitating prisoners isn't about being nice, it's about numbers. Recidivism rates. Keeping people from committing crimes again. The entire point of this system is that it STOPS people from coming back because they have the tools to actually function inside of society.
Prison is *extremely* unpleasant. Your entire life is controlled from the ground up and every minute of every day your life is on the line. Even a very basic job is going to provide a substantially better life for a person. The trick is getting prisoners the tools and knowledge to get that better life while in prison. To indoctrinate them with the desire to pursue it.
As it stands prison in the United States is about as fucked up as is humanly possible. Prison sentences are long and handed down frequently. And yet we have a recidivism rate that is simply massive.
Why?
BECAUSE PUNISHMENT DOESN'T DO SHIT.
SAY IT WITH ME. PUNISHMENT. DOESN'T. DO. SHIT.
[QUOTE=QwertySecond;25270866]What I'd really like to see happen is for manufacturing to be brought back here. If we just imported the materials for consumer electronics and got these guys to manufacture it we could potentially make a considerable profit.[/QUOTE]
Criminal labour, you say? That's actually an intriguing idea. It'd lessen our reliance on child labour in the Phillipines/China/India/etc, AND increase the efficiency of convicts. Plus, it might help for reformation in some cases.
Also, do any countries already use criminal labour?
[QUOTE=ironman17;25286633]Criminal labour, you say? That's actually an intriguing idea. It'd lessen our reliance on child labour in the Phillipines/China/India/etc, AND increase the efficiency of convicts. Plus, it might help for reformation in some cases.
Also, do any countries already use criminal labour?[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of a fictional book I read where an Island nation used criminals to mine for diamonds and ores. because they were on an island, nothing could really get in and out, so no one could really escape or smuggle out/in materials.
Maybe get people on death row/life sentences who have committed horrendous crimes to work jobs that are life threatening. the only real problem with that is deciding if the crime they committed is severe enough to count. (and morals, but Facepunch usually don't care about that stuff :v:)
[QUOTE=Ori Child;25271561]hang on, what about all those non-criminals that are struggling to get jobs?!
Surly they should be the priority?
Or will it become compulsory to commit murder to get a job?[/QUOTE]
they'll give them labour and public works jobs.
[editline]02:24PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=bravehat;25271678]No wait I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the memo, but when are we actually going to start fucking punishing them?[/QUOTE]
When having a penal system that works when you do that?
ie never
[editline]02:25PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=bravehat;25271962]Giving them jobs, a comfortable existence and in many places in the uk xboxs, playstations tv's and the like! Graahhhhh I want blood!![/quote]
lol, this doesn't happen you fucking tool.
[quote]I want them to be actually fucking punished instead of given fucking jobs and shit, fair enough if they are in for stupid shit like drug possession and stuff like that, but the ones who actually deserve to be there should get put in a fucking room with one meal a day.[/QUOTE]
oh sure, lets punish them, never rehabilitate them and let them grow worse.
that fucking works, right?
[editline]02:27PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=QwertySecond;25272969]In the article they are making that a priority. As I said, I'd really like to see some industry brought back into Britain, be it textiles, fabrication or whatever.
As for punishment, I'm finding myself agreeing with bravehat. Certianly, prison is damned unpleasant, but the convicts in there are, quite frankly, scum. Whether it's petty theft or rape, it's an insult to those of us who work, pay taxes, contribute to society, help one another out and don't go out of our way to make other's lives unpleasant.
The rehabilitation approach is certainly a good goal to strive for, but a good deal of these people have long since grown past their developmental years and are unlike to have a personality change. I know of numerous cases where released convicts reoffend just to get back in prison, either due to drug lords/gangs waiting for them or simply because their friends are still inside (such as in The Shawshank Redemption).
I personally think that prison, at least for the serious crimes like rape and murder, should be an utter hell hole, if for no better reason than the shock value to discourage potential offenders.
This is one of the key reasons why prisons have bonuses and rehabilitation programmes. Since the whole thing is run by humans, it is prone to human error and, inevitably, a number of people are wrongly convicted. However, the vast majority of the convicted are guilty, and I don't think serious convicts should have anything other than a miserable time of it just because of a few potential mistakes.[/QUOTE]
Petty theft makes you scum?
[editline]02:28PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=bravehat;25274226]I'll make this abundantly clear for those who seem to have missed it.
I would only want this performed for those who have without a shadow of a doubt committed murder in cold blood, raped someone or a similar crime that has irreparably damaged the lives of others. Those who have committed crimes like drug possession, petty theft and that sort of shit get standard current treatment or better.
If you have taken someones life without a valid reason, I would happily watch and smile as you get your tendons cut and watch you being mauled to death by a pack of dogs.
If you kill someone without valid reason, clearly showing you don't value the life of a fellow human being, tearing them away from their families and loved ones, then you've clearly shown you don't deserve any semblance of freedom, and as an act of justice and retribution I feel their lives should be stripped away from them slowly.
Yeah it's flawed, I know that but so is everything, but there is a simple solution. Don't kill/rape anyone and you have nothing to worry about.[/QUOTE]
so you'll torture to death a human being... to tell them killing is wrong?
[editline]02:29PM[/editline]
I have a thought in my head.
let me share it with you:
i think you may have brain cancer.
[QUOTE=GunFox;25273910]A justice system based around punishment DOES NOT WORK.
I will say it again because people are fucking stupid:
A JUSTICE SYSTEM BASED AROUND PUNISHMENT *DOES NOT WORK*.
You do that and you get the US justice system. Which is as broken as broken can be.[/QUOTE]
half the time im convinced that the US justice system favors the criminals over the innocent
and that our judges are fuck-all dumb
I was gonna make some sort of Australian joke here but I can't seem to think of one.
Play me off, johnny!
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