'Burkini' swimsuits banned on Cannes Riveria beaches by French mayor - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50869142]Where in the Quran does it describe burkinis?[/QUOTE] Im pretty sure you could find an article or 2 pretty easily on acceptable clothing for women in the quran or any similar texts. You know damned well that Muslims are strict about women covering their skin. [editline]11th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mooe94;50869151]Can anyone who supports banning of wearing religious clothing in public please explain to me how it is constructive as a whole in any way possible? What does it solve? Does it not create more problems than reaching for solutions?[/QUOTE] It makes the weird foreign brown people who sound funny dress and look more like normal white people.

[QUOTE=darth-veger;50869143]I thought these were also banned in the netherlands? At least the burka has been banned for quite a while and it didn't spark much of a debate.[/QUOTE] they haven't been banned on a governmental level but some swimming pools have banned it

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50869161]Im pretty sure you could find an article or 2 pretty easily on acceptable clothing for women in the quran or any similar texts. You know damned well that Muslims are strict about women covering their skin. [/QUOTE] I edited my post but I think the entire point is that if Islam is strict about women covering their skin than at least some of the people no longer going to the beach because they can't wear a burkini should consider their religious beliefs as well as the states decision to ban them. You can be against both you know.

[QUOTE=Mooe94;50869151]Can anyone who supports banning of wearing religious clothing in public please explain to me how it is constructive as a whole in any way possible? What does it solve? Does it not create more problems than reaching for solutions?[/QUOTE] My personal thought process on it is that the less regressively religious clothing, the more women are given personal agency. This eventually branches into desires and changes in different areas. The religious fundamentalists will then be forced into a position where they either accept change or end up calling essentially calling for restrictions on women. An argument that should pose no threat and only other the fundamentalists from the moderates. Moderates will hopefully grow into an increasingly lenient lifestyle and disregard the fundamentalists.

[QUOTE=Thlis;50868839]Blame the backwards belief that women cannot show their skin.[/QUOTE] As stupid and backwards as many religious beliefs are, i don't see the reason why reducing people's freedoms is justified here. Wearing this hurts nobody, it doesnt cover their face so it doesnt prove a security risk in public, this is just arbitrarily shitting on muslims. Im also wondering why this needed to exist in the first place though, you could always just wear a wetsuit with a headpiece and get the same coverage. maybe the idea was that the wetsuit is too tightly fitting? Either way, they shouldnt be banning this.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;50869217] Im also wondering why this needed to exist in the first place though, you could always just wear a wetsuit with a headpiece and get the same coverage. maybe the idea was that the wetsuit is too tightly fitting? Either way, they shouldnt be banning this.[/QUOTE] What I think is funny is that a lot of people think this is traditional swimwear proscribed by the prophet Muhammad when in reality it's a relatively new product likely created to target a niche audience. Still doesn't justify banning it but it's not the righteous artifice that some people believe it is.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;50869002]Changing a culture is a slow process. This was a workaround to allow people from that culture of actually take part in the world, y'know, integrate perhaps? Blame the clowns who banned a harmless article of clothing.[/QUOTE] Integration is [i]not[/i] a slow process for those who are willing and have a good assimilationist mindset. If you're of a resistant-minded attitude to begin with, then yes, it will be slow-- but that's because you're the one who is adamant about dragging your feet throughout the process. This isn't a big deal. Don't wear a burkini when you go to the beach. Problem solved.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50869214]I edited my post but I think the entire point is that if Islam is strict about women covering their skin than at least some of the people no longer going to the beach because they can't wear a burkini should consider their religious beliefs as well as the states decision to ban them. You can be against both you know.[/QUOTE] Thats the womans decision to make, not yours and certainly not the governments. The government shouldnt be banning clothing to try and force cultural change that takes generations. You see a lot on here of people being opposed to more radical Muslims telling people what to wear, because thats insane. But when the government tells Muslims what they cant wear, people are OK with it or neutral about it. Its insane.

[QUOTE=Govna;50869232] This isn't a big deal. Don't wear a burkini when you go to the beach. Problem solved.[/QUOTE] I know I'm arguing with someone who supports actual tyranny but at what point do you stop taking away freedoms with the excuse of "it's not a big deal"? [editline]11th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50869248]Thats the womans decision to make, not yours and certainly not the governments. The government shouldnt be banning clothing to try and force cultural change that takes generations. You see a lot on here of people being opposed to more radical Muslims telling people what to wear, because thats insane. But when the government tells Muslims what they cant wear, people are OK with it or neutral about it. Its insane.[/QUOTE] I've said like 3 times that I disagree with the state stepping in and deciding what you can and can't wear at a beach.

[QUOTE=Thlis;50869215]My personal thought process on it is that the less regressively religious clothing, the more women are given personal agency. This eventually branches into desires and changes in different areas. The religious fundamentalists will then be forced into a position where they either accept change or end up calling for restrictions on women's rights. Moderates will hopefully grow into an increasingly lenient lifestyle and disregard the fundamentalists.[/QUOTE] In reality is what happens is the government ends up subjugating a minority and causes a cultural divide. As it stands, Muslims in france pretty much are delegated to their own pseudo colonies in towms where they dont stray far from because of all the shit they get from the public and from their own government. All shit like this is doing is creating a hostile enviroment for Muslims and justifying it with " hurr durr terrorism"

[QUOTE=Govna;50869232]Integration is [i]not[/i] a slow process for those who are willing and have a good assimilationist mindset. If you're of a resistant-minded attitude to begin with, then yes, it will be slow-- but that's because you're the one who is adamant about dragging your feet throughout the process. This isn't a big deal. Don't wear a burkini when you go to the beach. Problem solved.[/QUOTE] "stop following your religion; problem solved!" ironic that a conservative like you supports "big government" impositions against private freedoms when it's the Muslims who are mistreated by them maybe not so ironic given how typical that is

[QUOTE=Govna;50869232]Integration is [i]not[/i] a slow process for those who are willing and have a good assimilationist mindset. If you're of a resistant-minded attitude to begin with, then yes, it will be slow-- but that's because you're the one who is adamant about dragging your feet throughout the process. This isn't a big deal. Don't wear a burkini when you go to the beach. Problem solved.[/QUOTE] Yea dood, its literally as easy as abandoning your religion and cluture because bigoted white people like you dont like it. Literally that easy.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50869250]I know I'm arguing with someone who supports actual tyranny but at what point do you stop taking away freedoms with the excuse of "it's not a big deal"?[/QUOTE] This is a local ban on an article of clothing, hardly an act of tyranny. But by all means, go ahead (as many others are) and peddle this as being an example of the downfall of French democracy. No freedoms are being worryingly encroached on here, this is not something that deserves to be fearmongered over (there have been no explanations as to why this is horrible), and this ban is in line with encouraging the country's foundational secular beliefs. There are more pressing issues in France (and throughout Europe in general, for that matter) right now than whether or not burqas or burkinis are banned. I suggest you prioritize your concerns. [editline]12 August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=bitches;50869281]"stop following your religion; problem solved!" ironic that a conservative like you supports "big government" impositions against private freedoms when it's the Muslims who are mistreated by them maybe not so ironic given how typical that is[/QUOTE] "Stop following your religion like a fundamentalist. Problem solved." It's actually that simple. If you have a problem moderating your beliefs to fit secularism, then I suggest you don't move to a secular country in the first place. Go be a fundamentalist somewhere else. Also, not really sure where you're getting any of that bullshit about me being a conservative from or the idea that I like seeing Muslims mistreated. Especially given the fact, as I have pointed out on this forum before I don't know how many times, that my dad and his entire family are Persians, they're Shi'ite, and they're also immigrants. So if anybody should have a voice in this matter, it should be us. [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50869288]Yea dood, its literally as easy as abandoning your religion and cluture because bigoted white people like you dont like it. Literally that easy.[/QUOTE] I think it's hilarious just how presumptuous you people are. You're not abandoning your religion if you decide to cut a few of the more fundamentalist elements of it out. You're not abandoning your culture either. This is part of what assimilation requires. If you refuse to change, then you're not assimilating. But whatever. Guess I'm just "a bigoted white person" lol.

Blatant bigotry from the government is OK as long as its against people i dont like

[QUOTE=Govna;50869232]Integration is [i]not[/i] a slow process for those who are willing and have a good assimilationist mindset. If you're of a resistant-minded attitude to begin with, then yes, it will be slow-- but that's because you're the one who is adamant about dragging your feet throughout the process. This isn't a big deal. Don't wear a burkini when you go to the beach. Problem solved.[/QUOTE] Integration of individuals might be a bit snappier sure. But cultural change isn't. Culture change is reliant on a majority of people who shared the old culture agreeing to the new culture. That does not happen quickly at all, and can take a generation or two to fully kick in (compare a first generation migrant to a second generation migrant, etc. the further down the chain you get, the closer to their host culture they get). Until a culture is undergoing change, it's unlikely that a majority of people who are part of that culture are going to dare to step outside of the box. The box is comfortable after all, even if it's not optimal.

[QUOTE=Govna;50869290]This is a local ban on an article of clothing, hardly an act of tyranny. But by all means, go ahead (as many others are) and peddle this as being an example of the downfall of French democracy. No freedoms are being worryingly encroached on here, this is not something that deserves to be fearmongered over (there have been no explanations as to why this is horrible), and this ban is in line with encouraging the country's foundational secular beliefs. There are more pressing issues in France (and throughout Europe in general, for that matter) right now than whether or not burqas or burkinis are banned. I suggest you prioritize your concerns.[/QUOTE] Tryanny starts small bud. France had been actively subjugating Muslims for years now. Started small with the ban on facial coverings and bans on public worship, and band on burkinis. Dont be surprised when it starts to get big. France is making laws a certain fascist government in the 30s would have made.

[QUOTE=Govna;50869290]This is a local ban on an article of clothing, hardly an act of tyranny. But by all means, go ahead (as many others are) and peddle this as being an example of the downfall of French democracy. No freedoms are being worryingly encroached on here, this is not something that deserves to be fearmongered over (there have been no explanations as to why this is horrible), and this ban is in line with encouraging the country's foundational secular beliefs. There are more pressing issues in France (and throughout Europe in general, for that matter) right now than whether or not burqas or burkinis are banned. I suggest you prioritize your concerns.[/QUOTE] "religious beliefs other than my own should be illegal"

It's not even about it being religious clothing at all. I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is that a government is fucking dictating [b]what you can wear at all.[/b] Sure, require that people wear [b]something[/b], but what is the problem with [b]wearing more than normal at a fucking beach?[/b] How can you POSSIBLY justify banning that? On the OTHER hand, yes, it IS ridiculous that many Muslim women are brought into this oppressive culture from birth and have no say or agency in the matter. That sucks. But banning this clothing -- banning [b]any[/b] clothing -- does [b]nothing[/b] to help that.

free me from the oppressive shackles of clothing

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50869364]France has already banned the wearing of burkas in public so this is not unexpected. The French believe the burka is a symbol of oppression against women and not a religious piece of clothing. They also want to keep their French ideals and culture along with identification issues. Although unethical, I believe it's the right choice. The French are on edge after these terror attacks so this is a response you would expect from them.[/QUOTE] oppressing muslims' clothing choices (no matter their origins) and calling their women terrorists for wearing them does nothing to help the situation it only makes it worse

Honestly the shorter variant in the first picture just looks like a long sleeved shirt with leggings. The others look like rash guards with really uncomfortable looking long pants. The first one is quite a common beach attire for some women. Only the hat makes it really odd. [QUOTE=skatehawk11;50869398]Most muslim women are forced to wear the burka. The burka is not a religious piece of clothing, it's clothing to oppress women and their human rights. I understand that some may willing want to wear it but most are forced to please the men. [/QUOTE] I think you misunderstand.[b] Muslim women aren't REQUIRED to wear the burqa[/b]. More people should know this. It's more of a backwards cultural thing in saudi arabia rather than a required thing in the religion. Same thing with beards for men. With women outside the middle east they're usually just imitating what they see in mecca(after hajj) with the misconception that it makes them more of a muslim lol

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50869398]Most muslim women are forced to wear the burka. The burka is not a religious piece of clothing, it's clothing to oppress women and their human rights. I understand that some may willing want to wear it but most are forced to please the men. With this logic, it should be wrong to have a dress code in schools and professional environments.[/QUOTE] Not really. If a woman wants to wear it, which many do, as fucking odd as I find that, they want to wear it due to cultural expectations that are vastly different than yours or mine, they cannot do so in France. That is a violation of freedoms. There is literally no way you can explain "Not allowing someone to make a choice for themselves" as anything but a violation of their freedoms. Govna made a pathetic attempt at doing that last page and you're doing the same here. You're trying to say that a government law(not a social expectation of work attire, or one enforced by employers(people you [B]choose[/B] to work for)) is not a violation of freedoms, when it clearly is. Fucking bizzaro world.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50869442]No one is required to wear certain cloths. I'm saying it's forced by muslim men on women to wear it. [URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html"]This [/URL]is just one source of the many on muslim women expressing their oppression with the veil.[/QUOTE] Some muslim women, or even the majority disliking it does not mean the choice should be barred by the government. Are Muslim women slaves? Not in France, right? Muslim men in France cannot force the women to do anything without going to jail.

[QUOTE=Thlis;50868852]Yes, I am obviously a racist that just hates Muslims. It's not that I find the idea of restricting the rights of women abhorrent. I'd prefer a ban on Burkas and Burkinis than pretending to consider those kind of beliefs compatible with a modern society. By the way, yeah, it's totally victim blaming to blame the families/tennants that force this ideal onto the victim.[/QUOTE] You act like women are incapable of valuing Islam without an abusive husband forcing them into it. One of my best friends converted to Islam completely of her own will a few years ago, and has found it incredibly fulfilling. What you are calling "oppression," Islam simply views as modesty, heritage, and godliness. Muslim women CHOOSE to wear these more often than not. You're not protecting women with this kind of legislation, you're attacking faith and culture.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;50869002]Changing a culture is a slow process. This was a workaround to allow people from that culture of actually take part in the world, y'know, integrate perhaps? Blame the clowns who banned a harmless article of clothing.[/QUOTE] Although i agree with you, its noteworthy the article of clothing has the purpose of isolating them from other people... so like its goal is to prevent what you suggest would happen... i agree though, these clothing cannot isolate people enough that cannot be counteracted by the positive effect of having them go to the beach. I actually fully support the French ban on clothing that hide the face and cheeks, since that is when a person in my mind becomes unapproachable... when you cannot see their faces.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50869569]You act like women are incapable of valuing Islam without an abusive husband forcing them into it. One of my best friends converted to Islam completely of her own will a few years ago, and has found it incredibly fulfilling. What you are calling "oppression," Islam simply views as modesty, heritage, and godliness. Muslim women CHOOSE to wear these more often than not. You're not protecting women with this kind of legislation, you're attacking faith and culture.[/QUOTE] One of my best friends joined a cult and decided the best course of action was to put his house on the cult-leaders name.

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50869615]One of my best friends joined a cult and decided the best course of action was to put his house on the cult-leaders name.[/QUOTE] fucking incredible

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50869615]One of my best friends joined a cult and decided the best course of action was to put his house on the cult-leaders name.[/QUOTE] Just when I thought we couldn't possibly be more offensive and ignorant.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50869462]I do understand that some muslim women want to wear it, but the majority don't and the ones who do are probably so used to expected to wear one that it feels uncomfortable not to wear one. Also with the dress code policy, children are forced to go to school and follow dress codes. The government is forcing everyone to follow a dress code when at school, you are forced to follow the dress code because you're forced to go to school. [editline]11th August 2016[/editline] I think it's the right thing the government is doing. The burqa is like the star of david the jews had to wear. I am sure there is domestic disputes and violence if they argued with the men. It's a known fact muslim men oppress women, especially muslim women. I am sure if a muslim women refused to wear the burka there would be domestic problems.[/QUOTE] Honestly, who the fuck are you to speak for other people?

Even if Muslim women were absolutely forced to wear a burkini to go to the beach, you're not helping them out by banning it. You're making it so they cannot access a public area. Pretending like banning it is protecting women's freedom and rights is the most backwards thing I've heard in a while.