'Burkini' swimsuits banned on Cannes Riveria beaches by French mayor - Polidicks

burkinis are oppressive, women should be able to wear whatever they wa- oh wait a second

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50870320] You go from burqas to "YOU'D DEFEND GENITAL MUTILATION" That's a fucking pathetic strawman. Jesus fucking christ that is pathetic. [/QUOTE] It's not a strawman at all. It's a very valid analog that shows that cultures don't deserve validation just because they exist. You're extremely angry about this and it seems like you just want to be angry, so there's absolutely 0 point in me continuing this discussion. We fundamentally disagree and that's alright.

[QUOTE=phygon;50870356]It's not a strawman at all. It's a very valid analog that shows that cultures don't deserve validation just because they exist. You're extremely angry about this and it seems like you just want to be angry, so there's absolutely 0 point in me continuing this discussion. We fundamentally disagree and that's alright.[/QUOTE] No, I'm sorry, you're fucking strawmanning the fuck out of me. You can be okay with it, I don't care what you actually think, but you [B]are[/B] strawmanning me. I am 100% against genital mutilation. I am not for burqhas, I am not for these things. I am for defending freedoms from people who think that the best way to get what they want is to violate other people for it. You're acting like you're a fucking saint for just wanting to save these people from themselves, but that's just not true, that's a projection YOU are creating to make yourself feel better. You're advocating for the violation of rights, of choice, because you know best, because phygon is better equipped to make decisions for muslim women, than they EVER would be, right? I am against the intervention of the government into the private lives of people. If you think that means I support genital mutilation, then you're a strawmanning child incapable of actually having a real discussion. Nuance exists, and if you choose to ignore it, that's entirely on you.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50870364]The burqa is not a positive symbol, it's the embodiment of what you're so against, authoritarians. We are using authoritarian legislation to stop the authoritarian behavior of muslim men and the community. When almost 80% of muslim women say they are forced to wear it why are you just siting back and letting it happen? I know the reason, because you're too politically correct and saying one thing about muslims makes you a islamophobe in your mind. You're making the problem worse just by ignoring it. How can you sit back and call me an authoritarian when you're supporting the fact muslim women should be forced to wear it? [editline]11th August 2016[/editline] Except 77% don't want to wear them and 1,900/5,000,000 only had a problem with the ban.[/QUOTE] We're not supporting them being forced to wear it. We're supporting not using authoritarianism to combat authoritarianism. Does the problem of Muslim women being forced to wear burqas exist? Yes. But this is not the way to deal with it. At all.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50870364]The burqa is not a positive symbol, it's the embodiment of what you're so against, authoritarians. We are using authoritarian legislation to stop the authoritarian behavior of muslim men and the community. When almost 80% of muslim women say they are forced to wear it why are you just siting back and letting it happen? I know the reason, because you're too politically correct and saying one thing about muslims makes you a islamophobe in your mind. You're making the problem worse just by ignoring it. How can you sit back and call me an authoritarian when you're supporting the fact muslim women should be forced to wear it?[/QUOTE] Strawmans are all you're capable of it seems. I don't support it being forced upon women. I never said so, and you're entirely putting words in my mouth for me. I support the [B]choice[/B] to make your own decisions. I do not think that fighting authoritarians with authoritarian methods helps. Two wrongs do not make a right. You're not an islamaphobe, you're just wrong. You're just trying to make the situation worse because you think people will react well to you dictating their lives to them. [editline]11th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=skatehawk11;50870392]He is always angry when you don't agree with him. He calls us authoritarian but when we disagree with him we're the uneducated rednecks who hate muslims and unless we agree with him, we're bad people. Most hypocritical person in existence.[/QUOTE] Literally all things you're projecting on to me. Pretty funny when I think about it. Never called you uneducated. Never called you a redneck. Never did any of that except for call you an authoritarian because you're for legislation controlling peoples personal lives in religion and sexuality.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50870382]No, I'm sorry, you're fucking strawmanning the fuck out of me. You can be okay with it, I don't care what you actually think, but you [B]are[/B] strawmanning me. [/quote] No, I'm really not. You're claiming all kinds of things that I fundamentally disagree with (all cultures must be respected and be allowed in), etc. If anything, you're strawmanning me- you claimed that I said that western civilization is the best on the planet, for example. If anything, what I said would be a false equivalence.. Which I don't think it is. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50870382] I am 100% against genital mutilation. I am not for burqhas, I am not for these things. I am for defending freedoms from people who think that the best way to get what they want is to violate other people for it. You're acting like you're a fucking saint for just wanting to save these people from themselves, but that's just not true, that's a projection YOU are creating to make yourself feel better. You're advocating for the violation of rights, of choice, because you know best, because phygon is better equipped to make decisions for muslim women, than they EVER would be, right? [/quote] Again, more examples of you strawmanning. I never said I was a saint. I never said I wanted to save them from themselves. You. are. flipping. out. this post is making false realities and attributing things I never said to me (phygon is better equipped to make decisions for muslim women, than they EVER would be, right?) for example. [QUOTE] I am against the intervention of the government into the private lives of people. If you think that means I support genital mutilation, then you're a strawmanning child incapable of actually having a real discussion. Nuance exists, and if you choose to ignore it, that's entirely on you.[/QUOTE] I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SUPPORTED GENITAL MUTILATION. I was demonstrating to you why your line of logic was flawed because [I]of fucking course you don't think fjm is good[/I]. I was using it as an example as to why cultures shouldn't be universally respected, because some cultures are obviously toxic. [editline]s[/editline] Like for real dude you claim that I'm strawmanning but that ENTIRE POST was attacking a strawman.

-ninjad-

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50870389]We're not supporting them being forced to wear it. We're supporting not using authoritarianism to combat authoritarianism. Does the problem of Muslim women being forced to wear burqas exist? Yes. But this is not the way to deal with it. At all.[/QUOTE] Literally just this, but you two are flipping out on me acting like I'm a horrible person who's okay with horrible things, and you don't see the irony in any of that while you talk about how much I must look down upon you guys. You make no sense skatehawk

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50870416]Literally just this, [B]but you two are flipping out on me acting like I'm a horrible person who's okay with horrible things[/B], and you don't see the irony in any of that while you talk about how much I must look down upon you guys. You make no sense skatehawk[/QUOTE] nobody is doing or saying that

[QUOTE=phygon;50870406]No, I'm really not. You're claiming all kinds of things that I fundamentally disagree with (all cultures must be respected and be allowed in), etc. If anything, you're strawmanning me- you claimed that I said that western civilization is the best on the planet, for example. If anything, what I said would be a false equivalence.. Which I don't think it is. Again, more examples of you strawmanning. I never said I was a saint. I never said I wanted to save them from themselves. You. are. flipping. out. this post is making false realities and attributing things I never said to me (phygon is better equipped to make decisions for muslim women, than they EVER would be, right?) for example. I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SUPPORTED GENITAL MUTILATION. I was demonstrating to you why your line of logic was flawed because [I]of fucking course you don't think fjm is good[/I]. I was using it as an example as to why cultures shouldn't be universally respected, because some cultures are obviously toxic. [editline]s[/editline] Like for real dude you claim that I'm strawmanning but that ENTIRE POST was attacking a strawman.[/QUOTE] You claimed because I support burqas(Which I don't, so who the fuck is strawmanning...?) I would logically have to support those. And you don't see the problem?

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50870286]I have given a link to a source saying that 77% (the majority) of muslim women from France do not want to wear burkas and are forced by family members and the muslim community. I am trying to liberate them from the oppressive behavior that is forcing them to mask their body to please someone, not the opposite.[/QUOTE] The blog post does not even give a link to the survey and does not cite sources. That 77% claim is literally coming out of thin air and is so hyperbolic I find it very difficult to believe it's anywhere near the truth. Then there's the fact you fucked up even further, mixed up hijab and burqa (the magical unsourced survey is about the hijab) and went from "physical threats from islamic groups" to "forced by the family and the community". (Also very hard to believe that Islamist groups back in 2003 had somehow enough footing in France to [I]physically[/I] threaten this many people into wearing a veil) You can't even read your own damn references, how's anyone supposed to take you seriously

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50870409]What's the proper way to deal with it? Tell them kindly to stop and that it's wrong?[/QUOTE] Look at Canada, like I have said so many times that it's mind boggling. We have not done this. We have not outlawed their culture. And guess what? They have assimilated, and they don't exist in largely insular communities like they do in France where they feel unwelcome everywhere. We put our foot down about our laws, but we don't create new ones just to target them in specific ways that are violations of personal rights. But what do we crazy canadians know

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50870286]This has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Burqas are [B]NOT A RELIGIOUS ARTICLE OF CLOTHING.[/B] they are worn because the men want them to wear it otherwise they are considered "whores".[/QUOTE] They are very obviously religious articles of clothing in several subgroups of Islam, different denominations have different rules in every religion. Sure, it's stupid, hypocritical and inconsistent, but thats just religion in general. Even if they weren't really religious articles of clothing, my point still stands, your trying to go after *group of people* who are following *something* that is limiting their freedoms by peer pressure, by further limiting their freedoms under law.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50870409]What's the proper way to deal with it? Tell them kindly to stop and that it's wrong?[/QUOTE] You create laws that protect women's rights. Simple as that. What you [i]don't[/i] do is create laws which restrict them instead.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;50870580]They are very obviously religious articles of clothing in several subgroups of Islam, different denominations have different rules in every religion. Sure, it's stupid, hypocritical and inconsistent, but thats just religion in general. Even if they weren't really religious articles of clothing, my point still stands, your trying to go after *group of people* who are following *something* that is limiting their freedoms by peer pressure, by further limiting their freedoms under law.[/QUOTE] Islam has some stuff regarding modesty and wearing modest clothes, the veil is just a cultural article of clothing that was assimilated into local clusters of practice that differ from region to region because it conveniently fits into the whole modesty business. The specific use of the word Hijab is religious, whereas veil is generic. Note that the Hijab is extremely common in Africa (from where the majority of French Muslims originate from) whereas the Niqab and Burqa are only really common in the Middle-East and Asia.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50870364]Except 77% don't want to wear them and 1,900/5,000,000 only had a problem with the ban.[/QUOTE] i realize there's more to the issue than i can cover in a snarky one-liner, the veracity of the 77% claim notwithstanding. doesn't mean there's not a point to be made in recognizing that this is attempting to solve a restrictive tradition by restricting a tradition

[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;50868838]???? this is about women who [I]could[/I] go to the beach because they could wear that shit in the OP now they [B]can't[/B] enjoy the beach [/QUOTE] Won't*

[QUOTE=Lolkork;50868784]You wont get fewer enemies if you outlaw people's traditions.[/QUOTE] You won't get fewer enemies if you allow them to continue, either. As much as I hate to say it, part of the reason why there are so many problems with refugees is because so many people are afraid of assimilating them into western society, even if it's just partially.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50869996]Would you just let termites eat up your house's foundation just because you don't want to kill a living thing? That's the same logic. Islamic culture is a vermin to western society and you're too concerned about being politically correct instead of solving the problem that's eating up our metaphoric foundation.[/QUOTE] The one thing I can appreciate about this post is that it doesn't pussy foot around. The guy wants to go full Hitler and exterminate a minority because their culture is different than ours. He compares people to termites and how termites are easy to kill, just like people. Props to you bud. [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50870995]You won't get fewer enemies if you allow them to continue, either. As much as I hate to say it, part of the reason why there are so many problems with refugees is because so many people are afraid of assimilating them into western society, even if it's just partially.[/QUOTE] No, you actually will get fewer enemies. This may come as a surprise, but if you don't actively subjugate a minorities culture, it actually keeps them relatively happy, at least happier than when you start taking shit away for no apparent reason. [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ferrus;50870987]Won't*[/QUOTE] No, can't. Their religion literally does not allow them to show certain parts of their body. Because of this ban, they can not go to the beach in any capacity anymore unless they abandon their culture and religion. This ban is supposed to make Muslims question their pre-historic views on women, but all its going to do is make them hate the government and think/realize that their own government is against them.

Fucking mad that some people think dressing modestly is some sort of oppression. Who the hell are you to decide what a person wants to wear? Some people don't like wearing skimpy clothing, some people don't like showing their bodies and some people are just plain old shy. Just because a subset of Muslim women are oppressed to dressing in such a way doesn't mean all of them are. Some of them do it on their free-will because of god or maybe they just like wearing those types of clothing. This is the most baffling case of ignorance I've seen. Not even cultural ignorance because this is just people failing to see that some people have different ideas on what is appropriate for them to wear in public.

Forcing women to were these is really backwards and despicable. But the ban is even more stupid. It doesn't help anyone in any way, shape or form.

[QUOTE=Thlis;50868873]These types of clothing are forced upon women and girls primarily and religiously without their consent.[/QUOTE] Sometimes, but a lot of Muslim women actually wear it because they want to. If you look at the reasoning behind the Hijab and similar clothing you'd understand why some people would be willing to. A hijab is nothing like a burka and is hardly oppressive compared to a burqa but obviously uninformed morons don't know this. [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] Go speak to an actual Muslim woman living in a western country and ask if they feel oppressed. I have.

the ban is stupid my sisters and many women here feel "naked" if they didnt hide their hair and whatnot with a hijab. the only people who year bukras are either really old + married women since most young ladies here wear abaia [t]http://supercairo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%AF%D8%AB-%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%85%D8%AD%D8%AC%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%AE%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%A1-2016-23.jpg[/t] its always styish and most women here either not cover their hair or just show off their bangs and nobody complains.

[QUOTE=Thlis;50868873]These types of clothing are forced upon women and girls primarily and religiously without their consent. I feel that banning this forces the religious community to modernize something which frankly is pretty important. I think the other comment from the Mayor was dumb.[/QUOTE] yes no adult muslim single women exist you are right how could you possibly be wrong im sorry but every thread I see about muslims your immediately here talking shit saying that they are 'oppressed' even if they dont live in the middle east, when they live in a first world country where they can switch if they want without worry of being hurt, and you immediately start saying 'these people are FORCED TO DO IT.' have you ever actually considered that maybe they want to do it? maybe they aren't being oppressed by a man or anything? what do you think the mans going to do in a first world country if she doesn't want to do this anymore, kill her? im also referring to your other posts below, not just this one. [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=e_k_M;50871847]the ban is stupid my sisters and many women here feel "naked" if they didnt hide their hair and whatnot with a hijab. the only people who year bukras are either really old women since most women here wear abaia its always styish and most women here either not cover their hair or just show off their bangs and nobody complains.[/QUOTE] this

[QUOTE=Tools;50868801]Waaaaay for him to make it racist[/QUOTE] Islamophobic*

Fining someone for wearing a certain type of clothing is fucking retarded no matter how you look at it.

It's pretty much people who have no actual real world experience with Muslims and base everything they believe off of articles. Also, skate linked to this article [url]http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/03/02/opinion-why-france-is-right-about-the-burqa/[/url] You linked an opinion piece, so that's already not a completely valid source. [quote]A survey conducted in France in May 2003 found that 77 percent of girls wearing the hijab said they did so because of physical threats from Islamist groups[/quote] What survey? All I could find from searching 'France May 2003 hijab survey' are quotes from the above article. No links to such a survey in the article, so why should I have any reason to believe that those are true statistics? And yes, all this does is seperate Muslims, make them feel isolated and out of place, and ruin any connection they may have to the country. Talk to a muslim and they'll say that this sort of shit makes things worse, not better.

When in Rome.. I went to Morocco with my Mrs and received a brochure from the Govt with some simple do's and don'ts. Mostly it was dress code stuff and public displays of affection advice and obviously not being drunk in public. Pretty much all things that we might do without thinking whilst on holiday. Well, my Mrs went and bought some 3/4 length trousers instead of shorts and some blouses with sleeves and not low cut. I was on my best behaviour and drank moderately, which is easy as you can only drink in the hotels there. This because we respect that when you are in a predominantly Muslim country you have to abide by their customs. It would be no different if you had to live there. They have very little tolerance for people who don't behave appropriately and conform to their customs. The same cannot be said when the situation is reversed. France isn't the middle East or a Muslim country, if they feel that they don't want women in Birkini's on their beaches they have every right to implement this.

This measure is authoritarian and is not the way to promote equal rights for women of faith.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50872332]France isn't the middle East or a Muslim country, if they feel that they don't want women in Birkini's on their beaches they have every right to implement this.[/QUOTE] Yeah except the people touched by these aren't tourists, they're French citizens, children of French citizens. There is a pretty big difference between being respectful of a country you visit and a nation you are living in and have the nationality for banning articles of clothing because they feel like your culture is condoning terrorism.