'Burkini' swimsuits banned on Cannes Riveria beaches by French mayor - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50872353]Yeah except the people touched by these aren't tourists, they're French citizens, children of French citizens. There is a pretty big difference between being respectful of a country you visit and a nation you are living in and have the nationality for banning articles of clothing because they feel like your culture is condoning terrorism.[/QUOTE] People need to be more pragmatic. If I was living in Morocco as a Christian, I would accept that there would be certain things that I could not do that I could do if I was living in a Christian country. I am sure most decent intelligent Muslims can understand. It's the liberals that make the fuss.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50872397]People need to be more pragmatic. If I was living in Morocco as a Christian, I would accept that there would be certain things that I could not do that I could do if I was living in a Christian country. I am sure most decent intelligent Muslims can understand. It's the liberals that make the fuss.[/QUOTE] If you were living in Morocco as a Christian you would not do certain things not to offend people by breaking their customs of good taste or religious customs. Which one of these are burkinis breaking in the west? It's harmless to the natives. There's no reason to ban this.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50872397]People need to be more pragmatic. If I was living in Morocco as a Christian, I would accept that there would be certain things that I could not do that I could do if I was living in a Christian country. I am sure most decent intelligent Muslims can understand. It's the liberals that make the fuss.[/QUOTE] it's almost as if liberals value individual rights including the right to religious freedom and the right to wear whatever you want on a fucking beach

Its funny that you guys liked HumanAbyss's appeal against banning burkinies to supporting genital mutilation... [quote=http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2013/11/circumcision-and-law][an] issue that unites Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, California's Governor Jerry Brown and France's President François Hollande. All three have defended the circumcision of male infants, as practised by Jews and Muslims.[/quote] Seeing as genital mutilation is legal in France.

[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50869976]If you can get a source on how they are now locked up in their house 24/7 I would love to see. The muslim men just conceded and let them wear hijabs instead. Only 0.00038% (1900/5000000)of muslim women were concerned about the ban,it's not as big of a problem as you think.[/QUOTE] Where are you getting this statistic from?

The people in this same thread are using the same mental gymnastics that the people who want to ban bikinis from the beach, because "OPPRESSION OF WOMANS"

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50869603]Although i agree with you, its noteworthy the article of clothing has the purpose of isolating them from other people... so like its goal is to prevent what you suggest would happen....[/QUOTE] Nope, the whole point of this specific article of clothing is the exact [b]opposite[/b]. Literally the exact opposite. Its point is to allow some muslim women into an activity (swimming) from which they would have been heavily restricted earlier. This ban is clearly a move towards segregation. As is any ban on clothing or religious persecution, for that matter. Do you think people will voluntarily drop their whole worldviews because some racist twat whined about integration and "muh secularism"? No, they'll just be forced to keep to themselves, which creates problems for everyone. [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=karlosfandango;50872397]People need to be more pragmatic. If I was living in Morocco as a Christian, I would accept that there would be certain things that I could not do that I could do if I was living in a Christian country. I am sure most decent intelligent Muslims can understand. It's the liberals that make the fuss.[/QUOTE] "Christian minorities are oppressed, therefore all religious persecution is fine."

Banning religious clothing. Yup, nope they're toootally just looking out for the muslim women's freedom.

[QUOTE=Dolton;50873068]Banning religious clothing. Yup, nope they're toootally just looking out for the muslim women's freedom.[/QUOTE] "Protecting freedom" by banning religious liberties. If Christians had to deal with even a tenth of the shit that Muslims do, then the whole "war on Christmas!" spiel might not be so ridiculous. The West isn't just waging war against radical Islam, we're waging war against the Muslim faith as a whole (which was the fucking stated objective of ISIS). We're giving extremist organizations [B]exactly[/B] the reactions they were hoping for, and that is empowering them more than anything they could do themselves. Extremist organizations don't commit terrorist attacks to kill innocent people, they commit them to provoke social responses such as this. Killing a few people accomplishes nothing on its own, but the outrage and horror inspired by that action can have massive repurcussions. The goal is to enrage the West, inspiring Islamophobic sentiments, resulting in the Muslim majority being unfairly targeted and ostracized by reactionaries. ISIS is spinning a narrative of the west being at war with Islam, and as the West becomes increasingly overt (and increasingly misguided) in their fear and anger towards Muslims, ISIS's narrative is slowly transitioning from propaganda to fact. ISIS, and other extremist organizations, gain strength from exploiting this. They paint themselves as the last bastion of the Islamic faith against the Western crusaders (effectively verbatim from their propaganda material), and their numbers and influence grow. The sick beauty of this is that the cycle fuels itself. Once the spark has caught, it requires very little direct intervention from ISIS itself. France is damning itself with policies like this. It is slowly, but surely, alienating its large Muslim population, and dialing the extreme fringe further into radicalization.

[QUOTE=Thlis;50868970]I personally believe that the better option is to show the downsides of strict adherence to those kind of tenants. Allow the desire for more freedom to grow within the people that actually need it. By the way, it is pretty fucking disingenuous to try and pass me off as just some racist when the only damn thing I had said at that point was that you should place blame on the families. Those that would prevent women from going to the beach or forbid them from wearing any other form of practical clothing. I didn't even say all Muslims, I said overly religious families.[/QUOTE] First, they're called tenets, not tenants. A tenet is a central rule of a belief system. A tenant is someone who pays rent to live somewhere. Secondly, freedom of religion and freedom of expression means that women are free to wear whatever they choose - laws like the one being discussed in this thread violate their rights and are more at home in a theocracy than a free Western country. You're full of shit and hot air, Thlis. You're talking about women being oppressed while in the same breath telling them what they can and can't wear?

Can someone care to explain how this Burkini is worse than say,wearing a dress at the beach?

[QUOTE=Matrix374;50873277]Can someone care to explain how this Burkini is worse than say,wearing a dress at the beach?[/QUOTE] it's not, people just shit themselves whenever something related to Islam comes up

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50873286]it's not, people just shit themselves whenever something related to Islam comes up[/QUOTE] Completely baffled at the mental gymnastics these people are going through to paint Islam in a bad manner and this is coming from a guy who actively despises the religion. There are plenty of reasons to dislike Islam. There's no reason to grasp at straws and support this authoritarian shit that unfairly impedes on the freedom of individuals.

Pentecostal girls typically wear long skirts and grow out their hair, because these are signs of being modest and ladylike in their subculture. This is generally "enforced" by the family or community. Amish girls wear very conservative dresses and bonnets that hide their bodies and hair for the same reasons. This is also generally "enforced" by the family or community. Clearly, we should protect the rights of these women by banning long skirts, conservative dresses, bonnets, and hair longer than shoulder-length.

I support the banning of face covering clothing in certain places but this ban is ridiculous. What logical support is there? Its as covering as a shirt and long skirt would be. The ban clearly wasn't made out of any rational thought process. He's just appeasing racists and islamophobes.

[QUOTE=krutomisi;50868818]tbh these look like a great way to avoid a nasty sunburn[/QUOTE] I think sunscreen does a better job Or even a thin white shirt really

If a school here in the US made a dress code rule that only affected the female students and left the male students alone, I'd think that was wrong. I see this kind of rule as wrong for the same reason. If you make a rule and you know it's specifically against one group of people, you are discriminating. It's France though, so for all I know there are no equal protection laws over there like there are here.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;50873692]If a school here in the US made a dress code rule that only affected the female students and left the male students alone, I'd think that was wrong.[/QUOTE] pretty much every school, including my own, had this. dress codes only for women and not really for men

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;50873692]If a school here in the US made a dress code rule that only affected the female students and left the male students alone, I'd think that was wrong..[/QUOTE] Most schools do this

[QUOTE=krutomisi;50868818]tbh these look like a great way to avoid a nasty sunburn[/QUOTE] Lol apply spray on sunscreen no sunburns. [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Araknid;50871775]Sometimes, but a lot of Muslim women actually wear it because they want to. If you look at the reasoning behind the Hijab and similar clothing you'd understand why some people would be willing to. A hijab is nothing like a burka and is hardly oppressive compared to a burqa but obviously uninformed morons don't know this. [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] Go speak to an actual Muslim woman living in a western country and ask if they feel oppressed. I have.[/QUOTE] Because they were brainwashed as children to believe in their religion.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50872397]People need to be more pragmatic. If I was living in Morocco as a Christian, I would accept that there would be certain things that I could not do that I could do if I was living in a Christian country. I am sure most decent intelligent Muslims can understand. It's the liberals that make the fuss.[/QUOTE] France isn't a "Christian" country. The importance of the Church has been considerably downplayed back during the revolution, a law from the early 20th century completely burns bridges between church and state, and a growing chunk of the population does not even consider themselves to be religious. The part that's especially scary is that the mayor of Cannes is saying that it is in the name of secularism that Muslims must be targeted and constrained.

Lets try framing this differently. I am some policy maker in a government. I think gang violence is pretty terrible. I think youths are coerced to join gangs, to harm people and break the law or else risk being ostracized from family and friends. Gang members often wear hoodies when they commit crimes that hide them. Therefore, in order to discourage gang violence, I am going to ban the wearing of hoodies. This way, gang members, because they cannot wear hoodies, will be forced to integrate properly into society and a "proper culture" and will be easier to identify. Now, this sounds stupid as hell, but lets compare that to the current situation. Policy makers in France hate terrorism. They think women are coerced into a radical religion that causes violence, and if they break tradition they risk being ostracized or worse. Terrorist women often wear burkhas, hijabs, niqabs, etc. Therefore, to discourage terrorism, France bans religious head wear commonly worn by Muslim women. This way, Muslim women will be forced to integrate properly into society and "proper culture" and will be easier to identify if they are commiting acts of terror. [I]People who wear hoodies aren't going out and causing gang related crimes. People who wear religious head wear likewise aren't going out and causing terrorism.[/I] Some people causing gang violence might wear hoodies, and some people wearing hijabs might commit acts of terror. Banning clothing is not going to change anything. In fact, its harmful. You limit free expression, you assume women who wear this clothing are wearing it only because they are forced to (and thus are treating women as if they're weak and need to be protected from themselves), and you assume that anyone wearing this has an ulterior motive. I wear hoodies all the time in the fall/winter, and I'm not robbing stores and causing shootouts. The vast majority of Muslim women wearing traditional clothing likewise are not causing violence. The key difference someone might bring up is "Muslim women are [I]forced[/I] to wear this type of clothing due to religion, therefore we must ban it to free them." That's dumb. Some interpretations of Judaism require that the kippah be worn on the head at all times. We don't go around banning that because its forced. It also discounts the fact that western women are free to choose what they wear, and some religious people like following their religion/culture. And if a spouse or family is forcing this on a woman, that's not really a head wear issue but a control and abuse issue that should be handled on a case by case basis like most domestic abuse cases. Another slight difference is the covering of the face, however the hoodie comparison still works here. You can wear a hoodie to hide your appearance while still keeping your face uncovered. Sunglasses and fake facial hair are pretty effective at confusing witnesses to crimes. A big hat could probably work too. Motorcycle helmets are exempt apparently. And this article shows a new ban on the non face covering Burkinis where the sole reason for its ban can only be surmised as religious discrimination as the face is uncovered. You don't ban people wearing jeans and long sleeve shirts from your beach, do you? Also, committing crimes are illegal, duh. Guess this law will stop criminals from hiding their face, huh? Or maybe they'll just ignore it like every other law they're breaking that day.

[QUOTE=coldroll5;50876193]Because they were brainwashed as children to believe in their religion.[/QUOTE] Obviously my sister who converted when she was 22 was brainwashed aswell amirite [editline]13th August 2016[/editline] You don't have to be brainwashed to willingly believe in a religion.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;50872474]If you were living in Morocco as a Christian you would not do certain things not to offend people by breaking their customs of good taste or religious customs. Which one of these are burkinis breaking in the west? It's harmless to the natives. There's no reason to ban this.[/QUOTE] Is there any reason not to wear short sleeves in Morocco or to not have public displays of affection?

[QUOTE=phygon;50875899]Most schools do this[/QUOTE] I didn't say no school does this, I said if they do it I think it's wrong.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50877823]Is there any reason not to wear short sleeves in Morocco or to not have public displays of affection?[/QUOTE] Cultural norms. And breaking them will offend people. There's no cultural norm in the west about clothing on the beach that will offend people when you break it. That's the difference.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50877823]Is there any reason not to wear short sleeves in Morocco or to not have public displays of affection?[/QUOTE] No logical reason. Culture though isn't it, when people go to another persons country they should try their best to tolerate or respect the sensibilities of their culture. If a Brit wanted to go on holiday without having to put up with someone else's culture they should have gone to Benidorm. IMO if something isn't negatively impacting other people it shouldn't be an issue but people tend to approach that subjectively. I wouldn't approve of a tshirt with "fuck you" on it, mainly because parents nearby might be trying to not have their kids wear - lots of people would be ok with such such a tshirt. Likewise of for stuff being "too revealing" I'm fine with bikinis or speedos but I guess I wouldn't do so happy with a guy wandering around nude so its degrees of tolerance and its dodgy to expect everyone to think like us.

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;50889096]maybe if the religion wasn't rediculous they wouldn't have to wear them in the first place.[/QUOTE] There's a fuckton of cultures in the world that somewhat revolve around the concept of wearing a veil, or something to hide hair (or more). Islam isn't the only one to do that. Hell, it isn't even the only culture to do that [I]right now.[/I]

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;50888577]Cultural norms. And breaking them will offend people. There's no cultural norm in the west about clothing on the beach that will offend people when you break it. That's the difference.[/QUOTE] There is now and folks are making a fuss.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50889259]There is now and folks are making a fuss.[/QUOTE] Calling a ban of certain clothing by one French major a [B]cultural norm[/B] is very dishonest.