At least 46 anti-abortion bills are already in front of state legislatures in 2017 - Polidicks

If the GOP cared about Americans as much as they did an inanimate clump of cells, we'd be living in a socialist utopia without hunger, poverty, homelessness, or wage slavery.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51669355]or wage slavery.[/QUOTE] Aren't you doing this already though :v:

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51668148]One could argue that you're be breaching the individual rights of a fetus. That's based on the notion that at the moment of conception it is considered a person. I am a big fan of pro choice, but honestly for anything to stick you have to draw a line somewhere in the sand where a mass of cells turns into a human being. Until that line has been drawn by the federal government you're going to see this over and over again, unless the line is drawn at conception to which then the pro choice option will be null. It is something that needs to be discussed as a case of ethics rather than religion, including when actual conciousness develops and what we'd define as actual conciousness.[/QUOTE] I appreciate someone actually being honest about the discussion that needs to happen. This is always the point I make in discussions about abortion.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51669034]I think abortion is a grey area but it should be a grey area wholly for women. Men ultimately shouldn't have a say in the matter because they don't have to carry the darn thing for nine months.[/QUOTE] I mean, other than providing a way to legally abort the child in the same time a woman can as a father (as in renouncing every right to be his caretaker and see him and shit, but also every responsibility) I agree

[QUOTE=1239the;51668530]I cried on election night because I had just moved to the U.S. two months beforehand from a country rife with right-wing corruption where gay marriage is still illegal in order to get married to my same-sex partner of six years, and my entire life's plans had suddenly come under threat because a gaggle of anti-LGBT conservatives are holding the reins. Seriously, not everyone is overreacting. I wish I was privileged enough to dismiss everyone that upset as being hysterical.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile you think it is okay for Muslims to fuck underage children because its in there culture(in western Nations). I think women should be able to get Abortions but we need to implement a max amount of times they can do it within a set time period, If you are getting your self pregnant multiple times in a year there is something wrong with you and it is a form of self harm. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Terrible off topic post." - Pascall))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Evanstr;51669485]Meanwhile you think it is okay for Muslims to fuck underage children because its in there culture(in western Nations).[/QUOTE] You're a coward for not addressing the 46 anti-abortion bills. How about you try to defend them instead.

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51669493]You're a coward for not addressing the 46 anti-abortion bills. How about you try to defend them instead.[/QUOTE] I did, Read above. I Personally think the second a baby starts growing it is a human, but we need to acknowledge people have rights to there own body. But we also gotta stop people from doing stupid shit constantly, lets limit the amount of abortions someone can get in a year time frame.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;51668236]I mean good lord, I saw someone in a previous thread throw a temper tantrum on how Donald Trump and everyone that elected him are not just bad, they're [I][B]villains.[/B][/I] Pure, unadulterated evil.[/QUOTE] Hi. That was me. :smile: Maybe if you had some empathy for minorities you'd feel the same way. Maybe if you had some foresight you would see why his climate change denial is so bad. But I've learnt not to expect any of that from Trump supporters. Either you support his bigotry and ignorance or you're so selfish you choose to ignore it.

[QUOTE=CanUBe;51669501]Hi. That was me. :smile: Maybe if you had some empathy for minorities you'd feel the same way. Maybe if you had some foresight you would see why his climate change denial is so bad. But I've learnt not to expect any of that from Trump supporters. Either you support his bigotry and ignorance or you're so selfish you choose to ignore it.[/QUOTE] Yes because the only issues concerning a nation's are LGBT Rights, Minorities and the climate. Our Ancestors would be turning in there graves.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51668148]One could argue that you're be breaching the individual rights of a fetus. That's based on the notion that at the moment of conception it is considered a person. I am a big fan of pro choice, but honestly for anything to stick you have to draw a line somewhere in the sand where a mass of cells turns into a human being. Until that line has been drawn by the federal government you're going to see this over and over again, unless the line is drawn at conception to which then the pro choice option will be null. It is something that needs to be discussed as a case of ethics rather than religion, including when actual conciousness develops and what we'd define as actual conciousness.[/QUOTE] I vehemently disagree with the notion the life begins at conception, but if I were to hypothetically accept the validity of that argument, I would still find myself absolutely disgusting with the majority of so-called "Pro-Life" measures put forth by the American right wing. The GOP's measures almost universally restrict access to both abortion [I]and[/I] contraceptives. See: [I]the war on Planned Parenthood.[/I] You cannot simultaneously restrict access to abortions [B]and[/B] reduce the availability, efficacy, and/or variety of the medications and devices used to [I]prevent[/I] pregnancy. That will only serve to [B]dramatically[/B] increase the number of unwanted pregnancies, thus resulting in a huge spike in dangerous attempts at self-abortion or "back alley" abortions. It would create a massive public health crisis. There's precedent for this. Just look at what happened to Texas before the SCOTUS overturned their "abortion health" bill, which severely limited access to women's healthcare facilities. There was a massive surge in unwanted pregnancies and medical emergencies as a result of attempts to self-abort. "How to Give Yourself an Abortion" became one of the top Google search terms from Texas. Convenient and Affordable access to contraceptives, and proper sexual education, obviously seriously reduces the rates of unwanted pregnancies. By extension, that reduces the number of abortions. Nationwide, we are actually seeing some of the lowest abortion rates in history right now -- thanks to sexual education and access to birth control and other contraceptives. The GOP is back-asswords when it comes to this shit.

[QUOTE=Evanstr;51669506]Yes because the only issues concerning a nation's are LGBT Rights, Minorities and the climate. Our Ancestors would be turning in there graves.[/QUOTE] Oh right, I forgot about the people voting for Trump because they think he will "fix the economy" for the lower class despite being a billionaire who has never wanted something and not recieved it in his entire life. Imagine voting to fuck over minorities and future generations because you think it might help you get a job. Despicable. Trump voters are the lowest of the low.

[QUOTE=Evanstr;51669506]Yes because the only issues concerning a nation's are LGBT Rights, Minorities and the climate. Our Ancestors would be turning in there graves.[/QUOTE] Climate change is the single greatest threat facing the world, to be fair, and the Trump administration's official policy on the subject is actively self-destructive. If Trump were bringing in boat-fulls of known ISIS extremists and setting them loose on American soil, I should think you'd be understandably upset. It's the same thing, though I would honestly rather have the extremists. Despite whatever damage they would do, it will pale in comparison to the impacts of rampant unmitigated climate change. Trump isn't just failing to help correct that problem, he's intentionally making it worse. Every single other issue on the table, both foreign and domestic, is dwarfed by that threat.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51669509]I vehemently disagree with the notion the life begins at conception, but if I were to hypothetically accept the validity of that argument, I would still find myself absolutely disgusting with the majority of so-called "Pro-Life" measures put forth by the American right wing. The GOP's measures almost universally restrict access to both abortion [I]and[/I] contraceptives. See: [I]the war on Planned Parenthood.[/I] You cannot simultaneously restrict access to abortions [B]and[/B] reduce the availability, efficacy, and/or variety of the medications and devices used to [I]prevent[/I] pregnancy. That will only serve to [B]dramatically[/B] increase the number of unwanted pregnancies, thus resulting in a huge spike in dangerous attempts at self-abortion or "back alley" abortions. It would create a massive public health crisis. There's precedent for this. Just look at what happened to Texas before the SCOTUS overturned their "abortion health" bill, which severely limited access to women's healthcare facilities. There was a massive surge in unwanted pregnancies and medical emergencies as a result of attempts to self-abort. "How to Give Yourself an Abortion" became one of the top Google search terms from Texas. Convenient and Affordable access to contraceptives, and proper sexual education, obviously seriously reduces the rates of unwanted pregnancies. By extension, that reduces the number of abortions. Nationwide, we are actually seeing some of the lowest abortion rates in history right now -- thanks to sexual education and access to birth control and other contraceptives. The GOP is back-asswords when it comes to this shit.[/QUOTE] Care to post sources for the bill and it's effects? I would love to look into it.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51669522]Care to post sources for the bill and it's effects? I would love to look into it.[/QUOTE] Here's one: [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/opinion/sunday/the-return-of-the-diy-abortion.html"]The Return of the DIY Abortion[/URL] [quote]The state with the highest rate of Google searches for self-induced abortions is Mississippi, which now has one abortion clinic. Eight of the 10 states with the highest search rates for self-induced abortions are considered by the Guttmacher Institute to be hostile or very hostile to abortion. None of the 10 states with the lowest search rates for self-induced abortion are in either category.[/quote] [quote]In 2015, in the United States, there were about 119,000 searches for the exact phrase “how to have a miscarriage.” There were also searches for other variants — “how to self-abort” — and for particular methods. Over all, there were more than 700,000 Google searches looking into self-induced abortions in 2015. For comparison, there were some 3.4 million searches for abortion clinics and, according to estimates by the Guttmacher Institute, there are around one million legal abortions a year. The 700,000 searches included about 160,000 asking how to get abortion pills through unofficial channels — searches like “buy abortion pills online” and “free abortion pills.” There were tens of thousands of searches looking into abortion by herbs like parsley or by vitamin C. There were some 4,000 searches looking for directions on coat hanger abortions, including about 1,300 for the exact phrase “how to do a coat hanger abortion.” There were also a few hundred looking into abortion through bleaching one’s uterus and punching one’s stomach.[/quote] [t]http://i.imgur.com/M0y7uLp.png[/t] It's not [I]specifically[/I] about the Texas bill, but it provides strong evidence of my claims. Reducing access to contraceptives results in increased rates of unwanted pregnancies. Reducing access to abortion results in increased attempts at self-induced miscarriages.

[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;51667955]Are you genuinely fucking kidding? You are being, "that person," because this viewset is [I]the problem.[/I] There have been much more cataclysmic and volatile position-flips by nations. There have been much larger "failings" than a conservative party finally gaining a bare majority over it's liberal counterpart. Even here, in America! Or are we forgetting the Christian revivalist zeitgeist that overtook America in the 1920's, pass prohibition and plunged us in to nigh-on a decade of genuine calamity? Are we forgetting the surprising win of Abraham Lincoln over [I]literally anyone else,[/I] leading to an actual Civil War? Are we forgetting like, all of history essentially? Sometimes someone else is in power. Sometimes they aren't your heroes. Sometimes it [I]happens[/I]. It's not a "disgrace to humanity," it's not even a, "total 180." This is not the Jacobin Directory cutting off the heads of it's enemies, or the [ [B]insert communist purge of choice here[/B] ] or the fall of the Roman Senate at the hands of the unenlightened hordes. Believe it or not, there are a large number of Republicans who are not, "hardcore right tyrants bordering on being neo-nazis," but if all you can muster up is the ability to yell that at them, then they might as well be. Take a mildly larger view, just for a moment, please.[/QUOTE] Not every republican is hardcore right tyrants, but every single one that supports bills like this are. And that's a much too large proportion of them. The problem isn't that a conservative right-leaning party has won, the problem is that American politics have shifted so far ridiculously much much too far towards the right, to the point where the "liberal counterpart" is barely left leaning at all by the standards of the rest of the first world.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;51668991]Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-choice. But acting like abortion isn't a gray area and that he other side is a bunch of clowns on this argument kind of makes you look like a nob.[/QUOTE] A child has no citizenship status until they're born. The American government exists because we wanted one that protected its citizens instead of oppressing them. Strictly legally, I'm seeing it pretty black and white. We don't need legislators, who are mostly men, playing morals police and taking away freedoms from their constituents because they don't like people having them. They're not supposed to be the ones in charge, we are. [QUOTE=thrawn2787;51668991]You're more than welcome to disagree with them but can't you at least empathize with them [I]on one fucking issue[/I] jfc[/QUOTE] Why should I? They can't be bothered to empathize with the hundreds of thousands of women who die every year to childbirth complications or any of the women who were unlucky enough to get a piece of shit who bailed when she told him she was pregnant, or any of the other scenarios someone might get an abortion, I'm not bothering to empathize with their ignorance. I see no use in listening to someone's ideas when I know there's no way they're going to sway me into seeing their point of view. A Neo-Nazi's best argument could never make a solid argument for why I should look into becoming a racist, so I'm partial to telling them "oh, fuck off" with the same tone of voice I said that aloud with whenever I read this thread's title.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51669539]Here's one: [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/opinion/sunday/the-return-of-the-diy-abortion.html"]The Return of the DIY Abortion[/URL] It's not [I]specifically[/I] about the Texas bill, but it provides strong evidence of my claims. Reducing access to contraceptives results in increased rates of unwanted pregnancies. Reducing access to abortion results in increased attempts at self-induced miscarriages.[/QUOTE] Thanks. A couple questions: - I don't see this talking about the bill decreasing access to contraception. Can you clarify that claim? Did they take condoms out of convenience stores? - The article is incredibly dishonest in its citation of the survey on self-induced abortion attempts. The study says that the range is from a low estimate of 1.7% (which could be as low as 0.9% with error allowances included) to a high estimate of 4.1%, but the article just flat out says 4.1%. (I'm actually surprised by that level of dishonesty.) Without comparisons to other states, I have no idea where this stands in relation to the average. I tried to find a nation wide average and was unfruitful in my attempts. With that said, the study doesn't even list "back alley hanger" abortions as a method given by respondents for their self-induced abortions. The self-induced abortions were also done in large part by Latina women who live by the Mexican border, not a group that would be representative of all of Texas. Do you have a source for your claims about the Texas bill? This article seems to provide "strong evidence" for the claim that Google searches are higher in those states, but that's about it (Even then, it doesn't provide evidence for it being one of the highest search terms in the state).

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;51667324]Ban abortion [I]and[/I] remove access to female birth control by repealing the ACA. Surely nothing bad can come from this.[/QUOTE] hey, they just don't like planned families I guess. who knows all those unwanted children that grow up in poverty due to the safety net being burned up, who will not have acces to healthcare because of medicare and healthcare cuts, who will go to horrible schools because the moneys been siphoned off to unaccountable charter schools, will end up being productive members of society at some point, or they'll run afoul of the new tougher sentencing laws and be incarcerated. see its not that everyone is right wing its that parties hold so much more control over the individual votes these days that its the vocal far right wing elements that get to dictate and everybody falls in step because nobody wants to be out of power

[QUOTE=Evanstr;51669485]Meanwhile you think it is okay for Muslims to fuck underage children because its in there culture(in western Nations). I think women should be able to get Abortions but we need to implement a max amount of times they can do it within a set time period, If you are getting your self pregnant multiple times in a year there is something wrong with you and it is a form of self harm.[/QUOTE] First, who the fuck is saying that? This comment is completely off base and honestly a disgusting misunderstanding of other people's perspective. If you really believe this (especially given that it's completely out of context) you're delusional. Second, is there any evidence that this is something that happens? If there were, as you say it, would those "ill" people be better off raising children? [editline]14th January 2017[/editline] The life at conception idea is strictly rooted in religious sentiment. The idea makes no sense honestly. Personhood needs to be defined according to identity or the value of the individual life has to be given value by people's attachment. To give one example of why the idea is nonsensical, consider that a zygote may differentiate into any untold number of individuals, or may fail to develop entirely.

Its cute how republicans want to ban abortion but also want to do shit like cut school funding. They only give a shit about kids until they're out of the womb, and they don't give a shit about women either. Yea, its a bit of a grey area, but honestly life for kids who would have gotten aborted can be pretty much hell on earth, since most of the time its either from rape cases or in very low income homes where parents can't even afford to raise the kid, but maybe the condom broke or something. It's honestly a selfish point of view when these rich old white dudes say that this kinda shit is just a choice, and that every life matters, while also wanting to cut education and minimum wage.

[QUOTE=Naught;51670462]Its cute how republicans want to ban abortion but also want to do shit like cut school funding. They only give a shit about kids until they're out of the womb, and they don't give a shit about women either. Yea, its a bit of a grey area, but honestly life for kids who would have gotten aborted can be pretty much hell on earth, since most of the time its either from rape cases or in very low income homes where parents can't even afford to raise the kid, but maybe the condom broke or something. It's honestly a selfish point of view when these rich old white dudes say that this kinda shit is just a choice, and that every life matters, while also wanting to cut education and minimum wage.[/QUOTE] Just a conspiracy theory but what if... just what if... they're actually doing it to maintain and increase rich poor divide? Poor, damaged and uneducated people are a lot easier to control and profit from while also decreasing chances of rebellions and such. They don't give a shit about kids at all, in our out of womb. If abortions were more profitable to them you'd see that narrative pushed hard instead.

Maybe the issue with abortion would have been considerably less severe if child support systems were more developed then they currently are, and if giving birth to a child did not place someone the obligation of being a slave. Maybe the eternal abortion issue is best handled indirectly, by preventing the necessity of having an abortion in the first place, similarly to discouraging drug addiction by improving the level of psychological help and figuring out what sort of malfunction caused the person to be addicted to begin with.

[QUOTE=Evanstr;51669485]I think women should be able to get Abortions but we need to implement a max amount of times they can do it within a set time period, If you are getting your self pregnant multiple times in a year there is something wrong with you and it is a form of self harm.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Evanstr;51669500]But we also gotta stop people from doing stupid shit constantly, lets limit the amount of abortions someone can get in a year time frame.[/QUOTE] Do you think this is a crisis currently affecting America today? Can you provide a shred of credible evidence to support your agenda?

[QUOTE=The golden;51670784]No. Women should be allowed full control over their own bodies and what medical procedures they wish done to them. There is nothing more to this. There should never be any debate here, ever.[/QUOTE] I believe that every possible measure should be taken to preserve both lives, such as by transplanting the developing baby to a willing mother at an extremely early stage instead of having the necessity of killing it. I do not disagree with the notion of free will, I just don't want to kill anyone.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;51670994]I believe that every possible measure should be taken to preserve both lives, such as by transplanting the developing baby to a willing mother at an extremely early stage instead of having the necessity of killing it. I do not disagree with the notion of free will, I just don't want to kill anyone.[/QUOTE] They aren't people, you're not killing anything. You might disagree with that, but that doesn't give you the right to stop people making their own choice.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;51670994]I believe that every possible measure should be taken to preserve both lives, such as by transplanting the developing baby to a willing mother at an extremely early stage instead of having the necessity of killing it. I do not disagree with the notion of free will, I just don't want to kill anyone.[/QUOTE] It is impossible to transfer an implanted embryo from one woman to another.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;51670994]I believe that every possible measure should be taken to preserve both lives, such as by transplanting the developing baby to a willing mother at an extremely early stage instead of having the necessity of killing it. I do not disagree with the notion of free will, I just don't want to kill anyone.[/QUOTE] its just a bunch of cells floating around most of the time. It's like trying to save semen. You aren't killing anyone. A babies heart beats for its first time at around 6 weeks normally, and most abortions happen even before that. (over 90% happen before 8 weeks)

[QUOTE=Evanstr;51669485]I think women should be able to get Abortions but we need to implement a max amount of times they can do it within a set time period, If you are getting your self pregnant multiple times in a year there is something wrong with you and it is a form of self harm.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Evanstr;51669500]But we also gotta stop people from doing stupid shit constantly, lets limit the amount of abortions someone can get in a year time frame.[/QUOTE] If you think the decision to get an abortion is an easy decision to make, you're a prick. If you think abortions becoming legal will just make people become careless and go "lol being pregnant doesn't matter because I can get an abortion lol!", you're fucking delusional.

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51670650]Just a conspiracy theory but what if... just what if... they're actually doing it to maintain and increase rich poor divide? [/QUOTE] You're not* the first person to think this. It is pretty much in lime with the narrative people give when they describe class conflict. (Marxists especially) Also explains the (largely conservative) opposition to public education, healthcare, etc

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51670788]I agree with you, but it is always dangerous to say "no debate ever" in this grey world of ours[/QUOTE] It's also dangerous to say "everything is grey" when there's actually a lot of things in this world that aren't and shouldn't be forcefully relativized or turned into subjective matters. One of the worst problems this country has today is that too many people aren't willing to put their foot down and have concrete opinions on important issues. The Republicans are masters of abusing this mindset; they call for compromise and debate one minute (usually when they're on the losing side), then they turn around and do shit like this the next (when the ball's in their court and they have the power to do so). It's either permitted or it isn't. Women are either allowed to have control over their bodies, as should be their right as autonomous and sentient beings, or they aren't. We have to choose. Talking about this continuously without ever taking serious action isn't going to change or solve anything. Neither is trying to approach it from a relativistic point of view, for that matter. I mean, I understand [i]why[/i] this happens: lots of people don't want to come across as being the "bad guys" for trying to enforce rules and order. They don't want to draw too much attention to themselves, they don't want to make decisions that will direct a lot of flak at them, they don't want to be seen as hardliners or whatever, etc. But this can't be allowed to keep continuing, otherwise nothing worthwhile is ever going to get done. The same debates will keep cropping up, the same arguments will be heard, the same inconclusive finales will keep happening, and this cycle will just keep going on and on and on.