• Collateral Murder [Wikileaks] source (analyst) arrested
    251 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22434924]Lol, you lost, if they got an order from command they had no choice. End argument.[/QUOTE] you are really bad at this
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;22434904]Why are we back on them? We were talking about the clearly unarmed people who stopped to help the wounded. Regardless of whether the others were armed there's no justification for that.[/QUOTE] ...clearly? certainly not.
[QUOTE=JDK721;22434953]you are really bad at this[/QUOTE] It's a wonder why we bother
[QUOTE=JDK721;22434953]you are really bad at this[/QUOTE] How the fuck? If command gives the orders they must have had a reason, and if command gave the order you can't blame the shooters.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22434924]Lol, you lost, if they got an order from command they had no choice. End argument. [editline]12:21AM[/editline] I was defending their actions on the group of people ;([/QUOTE] Well to be fair the gunner was pretty trigger happy he was requesting permission like crazy to shoot, I thought it was pretty weird how his gun even jammed and stopped fired he himself was even confused by that can you say divine intervention lol. Im kidding by the way so dont turn this into a religious argument
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22434967]How the fuck? If command gives the orders they must have had a reason, and if command gave the order you can't blame the shooters.[/QUOTE] Funny, I think they said a lot of that at Nuremberg.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22434867]"I know they have guns cuz i can sit and watch a video for hours, whereas they had a few seconds to decide, life or death, WHY THE FUCK COULDN'T THOSE RETARDS KNOW THEY DIDN'T HAVE GUNS? Sure they looked like guns, but if you PAUSE THE VIDEO it was obviously a camera."[/QUOTE] I like how you fail to realize the gunner was begging for permission to shoot for 2-3 minutes.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;22434979]Funny, I think they said a lot of that at Nuremberg.[/QUOTE] Funny, I think I've heard about dishonorable discharges for not following orders from command itself.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22434989]Funny, I think I've heard about dishonorable discharges for not following orders from command itself.[/QUOTE] Dishonorable discharge or murder Hmm, which would the rational person consider to be worse
[QUOTE=rapperkid04;22434983]I like how you fail to realize the gunner was begging for permission to shoot for 2-3 minutes.[/QUOTE] Oh man, here we go, he thought they were insurgents, the bad guys they murder his friends, suicide bomb innocents, what the hell is the problem with wanting them dead?
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;22435005]Dishonorable discharge or murder Hmm, which would the rational person consider to be worse[/QUOTE] I think you mean "Dishonorable discharge or killing terrorists (that's what he thought they were, afterall)" [editline]12:26AM[/editline] Double post? woo
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22435006]Oh man, here we go, he thought they were insurgents, the bad guys they murder his friends, suicide bomb innocents, what the hell is the problem with wanting them dead?[/QUOTE] When you want ANYONE dead you put yourself in a position to kill people needlessly.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;22435018]When you want ANYONE dead you put yourself in a position to kill people needlessly.[/QUOTE] There is nothing wrong with wanting suicide bombing insurgents dead, please don't argue that there somehow is.
[QUOTE=JDK721;22434913]so it's innocent until proven guilty now? some unrelated civilian couldn't possibly see a bunch of people who were shot and lying on the ground, and decide to stop and help them?[/QUOTE] It's quite possible that the Gunner thought that the Van was with these people and thus was seen as a threat. You need to keep in mind while this is all happening the ground troops are getting closer and closer to the position. It's this chopper gunners job to take out a target that looks like it could have people in it that will try to attack his comrades on the ground. How would the chopper pilot know whether or not that the van may have explosives in it ready to go off if someone got close? He couldn't tell if maybe they person in the passenger seat had a gun waiting to pass the soldiers and open fire when they let their guard down. Shit like this happens, and it's the fucking assholes our troops are fighting that cause this shit to happen. They dress in civilian clothing and hide in the open. It makes everyone confused and make hard decisions in populated urban settings extremely complicated. The gunner was just thinking: "Those guys in the van might be civilians, or they might be guys just picking up their friend to get him patched up and ready to get out and fight. All I know is that my buddies are coming down the road soon and I need to take care of this situation quick." That gunner is in charge of more lives than his own.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22435037]There is nothing wrong with wanting suicide bombing insurgents dead, please don't argue that there somehow is.[/QUOTE] MC Gummylamb spinnin' his shit hard. Rush Limbaugh would be proud.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22435006]Oh man, here we go, he thought they were insurgents, the bad guys they murder his friends, suicide bomb innocents, what the hell is the problem with wanting them dead?[/QUOTE] oh i dont know maybe because of THIS EXACT SITUATION
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22435037]There is nothing wrong with wanting suicide bombing insurgents dead, please don't argue that there somehow is.[/QUOTE] If you don't see why jumping at the chance to kill another person is a problem, especially in a soldier, there is no reason I should even be arguing with you now because you haven't the shred of human decency necessary to understand why this is an issue.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22434989]Funny, I think I've heard about dishonorable discharges for not following orders from command itself.[/QUOTE] Command didn't order them to shoot he requested it. BUT TO END THIS ALL!!!! They were in a hot zone and carrying weapons no one can deny that they had weapons ok so there for they were considered armed insurgents the pilot requested permission to take them out, yes they turned out to be innocents but this is what happens when you walk around a battlefield with a weapon people consider you a combatant. Then when the van pulled up out of nowhere right up to where the dude was at people hopped out to help him and looking at it from the pilots view who knows what was in that van bombs, weapons, more insurgents all he knew is this van came up to help the alleged insurgent therefore they were considered insurgents them self. This is what happens in war America isn't the only country to have killed innocents in war its just a sad part of war no one was at fault everyone was just doing their job.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22435037]There is nothing wrong with wanting suicide bombing insurgents dead, please don't argue that there somehow is.[/QUOTE] except then you end up killing the fuck out of innocent people.
This is all because the people we are fighting with are total fucking assholes that can't fight in a very honorable fashion. We try to be cautious and not getting many murdered, and when we do, and make a mistake everyone acts like it's the worst thing ever.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;22435062]If you don't see why jumping at the chance to kill another person is a problem, especially in a soldier, there is no reason I should even be arguing with you now because you haven't the shred of human decency necessary to understand why this is an issue.[/QUOTE] Now you understand how I feel in the Israel threads. Gummylamb and BurnEmDown are birds of a feather.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22435068]except then you end up killing the fuck out of innocent people.[/QUOTE] Except as far as he knew they were insurgents, he was convinced, he saw the impressions of weapons from their cameras.
thread turned into a shitstorm FAST
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22435073]Now you understand how I feel in the Israel threads. Gummylamb and BurnEmDown are birds of a feather.[/QUOTE] I've only said like 4 things in any Israel thread, and was being very passive about saying things.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22435070]This is all because the people we are fighting with are total fucking assholes that can't fight in a very honorable fashion. We try to be cautious and not getting many murdered, and when we do, and make a mistake everyone acts like it's the worst thing ever.[/QUOTE] oh go sodomize a walrus honor is a completely meaningless word this was not caution, this was "hey look a van that's helping injured people MUST BE TERRERISTS SHOOT EM DEAD SUNNY BOY
All of the arguing of whether they should have or shouldn't have shot the civilians is quite unnecessary. It is an irreversible act. What needs to be considered, in my opinion, is the reason the military hides civilian casualties from the American people. Simply put, if we were aware of how often this happens, especially compared to how many actual "terrorists" we're killing, support for the war would have dropped sharply. Add to that the fact that we are capable of *seeing* these innocent people get slaughtered, and you're looking at a surge of protest against occupation. It seems like we as a population have a large disconnect with the reality of war, even though we're in the Information Age. Exposing this reality seemed to be exactly what this guy was trying to do. As for the people accusing him of only wanting to do this for Internet fame ... did you read the article? It said that this 'hacker' was the only person he disclosed it to, simply because he assumed he could be a valuable ally in achieving his goals. Certainly it didn't say anywhere that he bragged to numerous amounts of people. Not even his family was aware, if I read correctly.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22435100]I've only said like 4 things in any Israel thread, and was being very passive about saying things.[/QUOTE] That's not at all what I'm talking about. Do you need us to use smaller words so you can understand when we're talking about your ability to empathize with human beings? Nah, that probably wouldn't help.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22435103]oh go sodomize a walrus honor is a completely meaningless word this was not caution, this was "hey look a van that's helping injured people MUST BE TERRERISTS SHOOT EM DEAD SUNNY BOY[/QUOTE] "hey look a van that's helping insurgents, could be terrorists, my friends are down the street and these people are known to car bomb...i wonder....hm"
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22435088]Except as far as he knew they were insurgents, he was convinced, he saw the impressions of weapons from their cameras.[/QUOTE] we're talking about the VAN INCIDENT there was absolutely nothing to indicate they were a threat. and no, treating the wounded isn't grounds to shoot them.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22435124]That's not at all what I'm talking about. Do you need us to use smaller words so you can understand when we're talking about your ability to empathize with human beings? Nah, that probably wouldn't help.[/QUOTE] You said I was making a nuisance in Israel threads, and then I said I never did...?
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