Over 2.5 million people have signed up for ObamaCare since December 12th.
66 replies, posted
[QUOTE=valkery;46732194]Riddle me this then: Why are some of the things that I need on my healthcare not covered by my provider? Why am I paying them to not cover all of the things that I need to have covered?[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what kind of answer you want for this. When selecting which plan you wanted you picked a plan that didn't cover those things.
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;46731194]You say that as if they weren't covered with any plan, it still wouldn't happen? I could have no insurance, lose my leg, and be $110,000 in debt.
If healthcare is such a problem for them in the first place, they should've sought out social welfare programs like medicaid.[/QUOTE]
Pay $70 and not be $110,000 in debt... or pay nothing and be $110,000. Hm. I wonder which one is a better option. Fuck dude, I'd take a $200 hit and still be happy about it.
I really feel like a lot of people are uninformed when it comes to health insurance. Like yea, you're going to have to pay into it a lot because you probably dont get sick that often... but when you do need it, you'll be thankful you have it.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
and if your plan is fucking you in the ass, drop it and find a new one. Thats what the marketplace is for.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46732131]Or c) You don't want it.
Health insurance is a product, and therefore should be completely optional to purchase. To force people to purchase it because their reasons aren't good enough for not having it is completely over the line.[/QUOTE]
And there's the root of the problem, healthcare shouldn't be a product to be bought and sold. Making sure everyone has it is all that can be done as long as it can't be properly socialized.
[QUOTE=valkery;46732194]Riddle me this then: Why are some of the things that I need on my healthcare not covered by my provider? Why am I paying them to not cover all of the things that I need to have covered?
For example, I pay $20 more a month to have dental care added onto my insurance. I just recently broke off part of a crown, and it's not covered by my dental insurance. It's a $700 repair that I'd have to pay out of pocket if I wanted it done. I'm paying for dental care. Why are my teeth not being covered?
Another example: my mom went in to get her eyes checked. She pays for eyecare. The doctor brought her in, checked her eyes, and told her that she needed to up her prescription. She went back out, got a frame, went to the desk and was told that she would have to pay $150 out of pocket to get the glasses. She pays for eyecare. Why are here eyes not covered?
Keep in mind that we both have BlueCross/BlueShield, which is considered to be one of the best healthcare services in the area. If you can tell me why I pay an insurance company to not help me out when I need help, go ahead, but until everyone gets covered for the things that ail them, [I]that they pay for[/I], I can't blame people for not wanting to have health insurance in this country.
I don't want to pay for a service that has arbitrary things that it will not help me with, even though I am paying it to help me with those things.[/QUOTE]
Because insurance companies, like any other companies, are only worried about the bottom line. Telling you to fuck off serves their interests. Insurance companies shouldn't exist and the system is fucked even with Obamacare.
That being said, I assume it's safe to say you're living alright at the moment, despite those costs? Let's say you drop your insurance, then a few months down the line your health takes a sharp turn south, you're beyond fucked. In that position your options are to refuse whatever treatment you need (possibly facing death) or saddle yourself/your family with crippling debt. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.
[QUOTE=CommunistCookie;46732334]And there's the root of the problem, healthcare shouldn't be a product to be bought and sold. Making sure everyone has it is all that can be done as long as it can't be properly socialized.
Because insurance companies, like any other companies, are only worried about the bottom line. Telling you to fuck off serves their interests. Insurance companies shouldn't exist and the system is fucked even with Obamacare.
That being said, I assume it's safe to say you're living alright at the moment, despite those costs? Let's say you drop your insurance, then a few months down the line your health takes a sharp turn south, you're beyond fucked. In that position your options are to refuse whatever treatment you need (possibly facing death) or saddle yourself/your family with crippling debt. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.[/QUOTE]
And that makes it ok to tell people "Fuck you, you are going to buy a product."? The solution is to force EVERYONE into the fucked up system? That makes a whole lot of sense.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46732343]And that makes it ok to tell people "Fuck you, you are going to buy a product."? The solution is to force EVERYONE into the fucked up system? That makes a whole lot of sense.[/QUOTE]
The alternative is allowing people to get into the position I detailed in my response to valkery. It's the lesser of the two evils. Compared to the worst case scenario (which isn't exactly unlikely) for those who go uninsured, insurance expenses are an inconvenience.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46732242]I'm not sure what kind of answer you want for this. When selecting which plan you wanted you picked a plan that didn't cover those things.[/QUOTE]
I chose my healthcare because it was through my employer. It is better, cheaper and more accessible than any plan in the area. I'm paying $20 more each month to add dental to this plan.
Straight from the plan: Dental services rendered by a physician immediately following an accidental injury to sound natural teeth. Follow-up services, if any, that are provided after the initial treatment to sound natural teeth are not covered. Injury as a result of chewing or biting shall not be considered an accidental injury.
That is fucking ludicrous. Yes, I want to be covered for accidental damage to my teeth. No, I would not like to pay you only for that service. I would like for my teeth to be covered against all damage, accidental or not.
The worst thing about this is that I cannot increase the payment to include full, comprehensive dental coverage without going outside of my employer and getting it on my own, which drives the cost up almost exponentially. I can't switch to another provider for all my healthcare because no other service in the area is even close to affordable, or as comprehensive in other areas. I can go to another provider for dental insurance, but the cost of getting just dental is exorbitant and almost more costly than it would be to simply pay out of pocket for the crown.
And then what happens if I need to get a root canal? That's not covered, and soon I'm dumping all of my earnings into two separate insurance companies, now hoping that I get injured so that I can justify the expense.
The system is fucking stupid. You can now shop around, sure, but it's like shopping in a dark alleyway where all the signs are neon but the people running the shop haven't bathed in years. The idea vs the reality is inconsistent, and I, like millions of other Americans, can't figure out a way to make this complex, convoluted system work out in a way that clearly benefits myself in any physical or monetary sense.
I don't know what to say man. When I got all the choices form my employer for health insurance I sad down for a couple hours and went through them all and picked the one that had all the stuff I wanted. I haven't really been surprised with any coverage stuff since then.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46732479]I don't know what to say man. When I got all the choices form my employer for health insurance I sad down for a couple hours and went through them all and picked the one that had all the stuff I wanted. I haven't really been surprised with any coverage stuff since then.[/QUOTE]
I guess my big question would be "Why can't America have socialized medicine?" I don't care what route it has to take, or whether it's federal or state or even county-based, but America needs socialized healthcare. None of this shopping around bullshit where you can choose between being covered for either accidental trauma or everything or nothing at all. I want to be covered for everything, and I want to do it at a reasonable cost that makes it possible for me to go out and not have to worry about my health on a regular basis. If medical insurance companies cannot make that happen, then it's time for them to not be a part of my life.
[QUOTE=valkery;46732516]I guess my big question would be "Why can't America have socialized medicine?" I don't care what route it has to take, or whether it's federal or state or even county-based, but America needs socialized healthcare. None of this shopping around bullshit where you can choose between being covered for either accidental trauma or everything or nothing at all. I want to be covered for everything, and I want to do it at a reasonable cost that makes it possible for me to go out and not have to worry about my health on a regular basis. If medical insurance companies cannot make that happen, then it's time for them to not be a part of my life.[/QUOTE]
Fact of the matter is, medical insurance companies [i]won't[/i] make that happen until they get kicked in the ass with socialized healthcare. If it affects their bottom line, even by a few cents, they aren't going to do it.
I know it's anecdotal evidence, but we were paying about $800/month for insurance because we were so high-risk due to genetic, unavoidable illnesses. That cost was about $300/month until one of my parents finally got kicked in the ass and needed a transplant. Now - because of something that we have no control over - we're either forced to pay $800/month or we'd be either bankrupt or dead by the next morning. That's just how the system works. It's not insurance - it's subsidized fucking from our healthcare system. It's a loan. We'll be paying that shit off for the rest of our lives.
Signed up for Obamacare, $50/month.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46732589]Fact of the matter is, medical insurance companies [i]won't[/i] make that happen until they get kicked in the ass with socialized healthcare. If it affects their bottom line, even by a few cents, they aren't going to do it.
I know it's anecdotal evidence, but we were paying about $800/month for insurance because we were so high-risk due to genetic, unavoidable illnesses. That cost was about $300/month until one of my parents finally got kicked in the ass and needed a transplant. Now - because of something that we have no control over - we're either forced to pay $800/month or we'd be either bankrupt or dead by the next morning. That's just how the system works. It's not insurance - it's subsidized fucking from our healthcare system. It's a loan. We'll be paying that shit off for the rest of our lives.
Signed up for Obamacare, $50/month.[/QUOTE]
Clarify for me. You were going to have to pay 800/mo, but then Obamacare happened and you're now down to 50/mo?
[QUOTE=valkery;46732611]Clarify for me. You were going to have to pay 800/mo, but then Obamacare happened and you're now down to 50/mo?[/QUOTE]
I assume he's on a subsidized plan and is only paying a small part of the total cost at 50/mo. It's not that his plan got cheaper.
I'm kinda late to the discussion but Oregon's state ran program failed out and we are now having to sign up with Obama care instead as of next year. I do believe another 2 states' programs failed as well. This really has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
[QUOTE=valkery;46732611]Clarify for me. You were going to have to pay 800/mo, but then Obamacare happened and you're now down to 50/mo?[/QUOTE]
No, we were paying $800/mo, but now we're on a subsidized plan that is $50/mo with identical coverage (minor deductible changes notwithstanding).
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46732343]And that makes it ok to tell people [b]"Fuck you, you are going to buy a product."[/b]? The solution is to force EVERYONE into the fucked up system? That makes a whole lot of sense.[/QUOTE]
You mean like with car/home insurance, right?
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46732343]And that makes it ok to tell people "Fuck you, you are going to buy a product."[B]? The solution is to force EVERYONE into the fucked up system?[/B] That makes a whole lot of sense.[/QUOTE]
Isnt that how taxes and social services work?
[QUOTE=PolarEventide;46731788]Didn't know that you speak for "everyone." Only a person ignorant of the law and political realities (ie. a Republican) could hate Obamacare. It doesn't do enough, and it has a few flaws, but overall it accomplishes what it is supposed to do.[/QUOTE]
Only an ignorant person would say someone is ignorant because of their political side, not all Republicans believe in the same issues and the same goes for Democrats. Saying that because someone is a Republican they are ignorant of the law and political realities only makes you look ignorant and biased as fuck.
There is one thing I can say in regards to the ACA, from personal experience. Mind you, I'm not talking about every person on the planet, just myself. My family was previously on an insurance plan that skyrocketed up to about $800 a month. It did not cover prescriptions (Actually, it covered $2000 worth, but my medication costs $4000 a month), and overall its quality was pretty meh. I have Cystic Fibrosis, which is a massive red flag as a pre-existing condition. We had no choice but to remain with our current, shitty insurance provider, as no one else would have us.
Anyways, fast forward a couple of years. Insurance companies can no longer deny for pre-existing. We purchase a new plan on the Exchange. This new plan costs $350 a month, and covers ALL of my prescription medications after a relatively low deductible ($1000).
At least for my family, it works quite nicely.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;46736146]You mean like with car/home insurance, right?[/QUOTE]
You aren't required to have car/home insurance because you aren't required to have a car and you aren't required to own your own home. You could live in an apartment and walk to work to get by those.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46736270]Isnt that how taxes and social services work?[/QUOTE]
Health insurance is neither taxes nor a part of social services. It is a product that is sold.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46737448]You aren't required to have car/home insurance because you aren't required to have a car and you aren't required to own your own home. You could live in an apartment and walk to work to get by those.
Health insurance is neither taxes nor a part of social services. It is a product that is sold.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but as soon as you want to own a home where you can paint your own walls and do your own renovations and cool shit like that (plus it's cheaper over-all), you're required to have insurance.
As for driving, it's been argued over and over again that due to America's fuck-huge-ness driving is practically required if you want to get around anywhere.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46737448]You aren't required to have car/home insurance because you aren't required to have a car and you aren't required to own your own home. You could live in an apartment and walk to work to get by those.
Health insurance is neither taxes nor a part of social services. It is a product that is sold.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure [del]apartment[/del] renters insurance is a thing, considering I'm required to pay about $10/month for it.
Of course, if I'm caught without [del]apartment[/del] renters insurance, I'd have to pay a few hundred bucks if something gets fucked up. If I'm caught without health insurance, I'd have to declare bankruptcy.
The moment someone comes up to me on the street and asks "hey, can I sell you some of my health?" is the moment I'll concede that health is a commodity and can be optionally insured against; otherwise, I'm sticking with the idea that the government is responsible for our health, much like it is responsible for our safety.
The government doesn't force you to buy a car and pay insurance because you're alive. They don't force you to buy a house and pay insurance just because you're alive. The government shouldn't be able to force you to buy anything just because you're alive.
I thought the majority of face punch was pro-choice. My body my choice right?
I[QUOTE=valkery;46732194]Riddle me this then: Why are some of the things that I need on my healthcare not covered by my provider? Why am I paying them to not cover all of the things that I need to have covered?
For example, I pay $20 more a month to have dental care added onto my insurance. I just recently broke off part of a crown, and it's not covered by my dental insurance. It's a $700 repair that I'd have to pay out of pocket if I wanted it done. I'm paying for dental care. Why are my teeth not being covered?
Another example: my mom went in to get her eyes checked. She pays for eyecare. The doctor brought her in, checked her eyes, and told her that she needed to up her prescription. She went back out, got a frame, went to the desk and was told that she would have to pay $150 out of pocket to get the glasses. She pays for eyecare. Why are here eyes not covered?
Keep in mind that we both have BlueCross/BlueShield, which is considered to be one of the best healthcare services in the area. If you can tell me why I pay an insurance company to not help me out when I need help, go ahead, but until everyone gets covered for the things that ail them, [I]that they pay for[/I], I can't blame people for not wanting to have health insurance in this country.
I don't want to pay for a service that has arbitrary things that it will not help me with, even though I am paying it to help me with those things.[/QUOTE]
This is actually a simple question to answer....
Answer- because of cost.
Longer answer- insurance will never cost less then what it can be expected to pay out (statistically anyway). By paying for insurance you are (again statistically) paying more then if you had just paid cash for the services the insurance covers. This is how a for profit business works. If you had some pretty extreme wealth I'm sure you could find a policy that litterally covers everything. But even then you would (statistically yet again) be paying more for the policy then the value of what the policy would pay.
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;46731066]I know people on Obama care who are in their mid 30s paying like $70 for premiums.[/QUOTE]
Mesnwhile, the site told me that the lowest I had to pay was 160. I cannot afford that and Georiga does have free medicare.. Unless I'm looking in the wrong spot.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46740128]I'm pretty sure apartment insurance is a thing, considering I'm required to pay about $10/month for it.
Of course, if I'm caught without apartment insurance, I'd have to pay a few hundred bucks if something gets fucked up. If I'm caught without health insurance, I'd have to declare bankruptcy.
The moment someone comes up to me on the street and asks "hey, can I sell you some of my health?" is the moment I'll concede that health is a commodity and can be optionally insured against; otherwise, I'm sticking with the idea that the government is responsible for our health, much like it is responsible for our safety.[/QUOTE]
If the government should be responsible for our health, why not just force everyone to go to the gym? And if we don't get healthy because we don't push ourselves hard enough, should we sue the government because they are ultimately more responsible than we are for our health?.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46740128]I'm pretty sure apartment insurance is a thing, considering I'm required to pay about $10/month for it.
Of course, if I'm caught without apartment insurance, I'd have to pay a few hundred bucks if something gets fucked up. If I'm caught without health insurance, I'd have to declare bankruptcy.
The moment someone comes up to me on the street and asks "hey, can I sell you some of my health?" is the moment I'll concede that health is a commodity and can be optionally insured against; otherwise, I'm sticking with the idea that the government is responsible for our health, much like it is responsible for our safety.[/QUOTE]
I don't have to pay apartment insurance, but I do pay renter's insurance in case anything out of my control happens to my PC/Xbox/TV etc.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46740128]I'm pretty sure apartment insurance is a thing, considering I'm required to pay about $10/month for it.
Of course, if I'm caught without apartment insurance, I'd have to pay a few hundred bucks if something gets fucked up. If I'm caught without health insurance, I'd have to declare bankruptcy.
The moment someone comes up to me on the street and asks "hey, can I sell you some of my health?" is the moment I'll concede that health is a commodity and can be optionally insured against; otherwise, I'm sticking with the idea that the government is responsible for our health, much like it is responsible for our safety.[/QUOTE]
If they're responsible for our health then they have to dictate what we eat, how much we eat, how and how much we exercise as well. A lot of diseases can be prevented through proper diet and exercise. Of course stuff like genetic pre-deposition to certain illnesses is a thing.
imo in the US we need to just get rid of insurance and find some alternate method. We just pay money to insurance companies to cover us because hospitals have to pay insurance companies so much money for liability insurance if something goes wrong.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46741051]The government doesn't force you to buy a car and pay insurance because you're alive. They don't force you to buy a house and pay insurance just because you're alive. The government shouldn't be able to force you to buy anything just because you're alive.
I thought the majority of face punch was pro-choice. My body my choice right?[/QUOTE]
Ok if you get sick we will just shoot you in the face to take care of the problem
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;46730805]so did people hate obamacare because the site wasn't working or what? because suddenly all the hate for it im used to hearing from political ads and stuff like that is gone.
did everyone just go "oh it's actually really sick" when the site fixed?[/QUOTE]
If you wanna know why there is so much hates its because imagine you have a good insurance, well here comes the government with theres. Some places are forcing some into switching insurance now, ones that cost more, and their current insurance is going up by like 2x if not more the cost. Mine was gonna go from a few hundred to about a thousand.
Basically, its fucking over the middle class, the lower class it can be a double edged sword, you can be required to get it, which then means you now have another bill as lower class. But it also can help lower class get affordable insurance as well which is really good.
Doesnt affect upper class because they have the $ to make the difference.
Im really kind of sick and tired of all the people who just praise this shit and act like Insurance for everyone is a good idea.
Its not, at all, it costs money, its forcing people who dont have money to now spend more money on an insurance they might not ever use or use it enough to make it worthwhile.
Obamacare is not a free ride of insurance, it costs money and its existence is forcing established insurance companies to jack up prices because their old customers are being forced into government insurance on some occasions.
Anyone in this thread acting like insurance is just nothing but a good thing has probably never had to pay for a single bill or deal with their own insurance completely themselves.
You also need to realize Obamacare is not some magic insurance that covers EVERYTHING. Even good insurance doesnt cover everything. The pills you have been getting for years could now not be covered on your obamacare if you switched/forced.
Obamacare is so fucking hamfisted and sloppy, I do agree 100% health care needs to be far more affordable and accessible but THIS WAS NOT HOW TO DO IT.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;46741868]If the government should be responsible for our health, why not just force everyone to go to the gym? And if we don't get healthy because we don't push ourselves hard enough, should we sue the government because they are ultimately more responsible than we are for our health?.[/QUOTE]
So if the government is responsible for our safety, should they keep us from doing stupid shit? And if we hurt ourselves because we do something stupid, should we sue the government because they are ultimately more responsible than we are for our health?
[QUOTE=Protocol7;46741893]I don't have to pay apartment insurance, but I do pay renter's insurance in case anything out of my control happens to my PC/Xbox/TV etc.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I'm an idiot, that's what I meant. It also covers property damage and visitors and whatnot, though, not just my own possessions.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46730966]I wouldn't look up those statistics. They RAPE the young healthy people of their money to pay for those who can't afford it.[/QUOTE]
You aren't meant to only insure yourself only in the case of heightened risk of needing support, that fucking defeats the point of insurance in the first place!
The basic premise is that everyone deserves to live a healthy life and a guarantee that if we save their life after an accident/unexpected illness, the rest of their life won't be ruined by debt.
Yes, by average, you will have healthy people paying for problems of the unhealthy people, but unless there's specific and explicitly deliberate reason why they are unwell (smokers), then there is no moral ground to refuse to support them, as getting into the trouble is not their fault.
Also, specifically not getting an insurance because you feel like a healthy whipper snapper who needs no doctors is retarded as fuck. You slip in the shower and puncture your lung with broken rib, or fall off the stairs and break your face horribly. Enjoy that fucking tens of thousands bill, healthy young person.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.