• Fresh violence in the Ukraine again. Thousands march on Parliament before being gunned down by the p
    169 replies, posted
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43973611]You just hate being proven wrong, dontcha?[/QUOTE] No, I wasn't proven wrong, thats just my opinion but I hate when americans and polish and romanians try convince me that their opinions/values are correct ones
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43973690]No, I wasn't proven wrong, thats just my opinion but I hate when americans and polish and romanians try convince me that their opinions/values are correct ones[/QUOTE] how to treat humans should never be a matter of opinion
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43973690]No, I wasn't proven wrong, thats just my opinion but I hate when americans and polish and romanians try convince me that their opinions/values are correct ones[/QUOTE] How do you know that your opinions are correct then
[QUOTE=WhyNott;43973940]How do you know that your opinions are correct then[/QUOTE] Because they are mine
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43973690]No, I wasn't proven wrong, thats just my opinion but I hate when americans and polish and romanians try convince me that their opinions/values are correct ones[/QUOTE] wot
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43973945]Because they are mine[/QUOTE] ur a dummy
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43973945]Because they are mine[/QUOTE] This doesn't have to mean that they are correct though. You could be mislead, or misinformed, or have a very subjective point of view on the case.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43973945]Because they are mine[/QUOTE] :suicide:
[QUOTE=Limed00d;43974016]:suicide:[/QUOTE] Please do it, go kill yourself. [editline]19th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=WhyNott;43974015]This doesn't have to mean that they are correct though. You could be mislead, or misinformed, or have a very subjective point of view on the case.[/QUOTE] Opinions are never correct, that's why they are just opinions, you can try and convince me, try change my opinions with facts, but it may/not change.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43974024] Opinions are never correct, that's why they are just opinions, you can try and convince me, try change my opinions with facts, but it may/not change.[/QUOTE] Fair enough. Why are mad at us for trying to convince you to change your opinion then?
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43974024]Please do it, go kill yourself. [/QUOTE] D'ohh you gone and done it now Lemme just ask one question though. Last question from me, for reals. Do you, in your honest and well informed opinion, believe that the laws the government instated [quote][img]http://chesno.org/media/uploads/dictatorship-en.jpg[/img][/quote] These, these right here. Do you believe that these laws are just and correct and should be upheld?
[QUOTE=WhyNott;43974172]Fair enough. Why are mad at us for trying to convince you to change your opinion then?[/QUOTE] Because so far I've only heard same thing all over and over again, pretty much so far I only heard: Berkut are bad guys, protesters are good guys, and 2 out of 10 people say so far that shooting/killing/attacking/provoking berkut is justified and should be totally ignored, but if berkut kills a protester that's not alright and retaliation must follow and double the consequences. I am pretty sure quite a few of them wouldn't want to be standing there but they do because they can't really disobey orders and you know it. One of my Ukrainian childhood friends had to delete himself from all social networks and go away to different city just because on one of the photos from last year, on a photo he was standing wearing a riot gear including helmet, body armor, camo had baton, all the guards on legs so he started receiving threats constantly to his page and all of his family and girlfriend too. Btw the social network I am talking about is VK.com (russian equivalent of facebook). So I think this shit is retarded what protesters do, generalize all berkut into one and pretty much go after them.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43974341] So I think this shit is retarded what protesters do, generalize all berkut into one and pretty much go after them.[/QUOTE] Aren't generalizing what you are doing right now though
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43974204]D'ohh you gone and done it now Lemme just ask one question though. Last question from me, for reals. Do you, in your honest and well informed opinion, believe that the laws the government instated These, these right here. Do you believe that these laws are just and correct and should be upheld?[/QUOTE] [B]Driving[/B] - not agreed. [B]activity of...[/B] - not sure what that means? [B]violators of rules for peaceful protests[/B] - agreed, I believe all protests must be organised and kept peacefully. [B]Participating in protest wearing helmet etc..[/B] - agreed, that's same as many countries banning body armor wearing, police must be able to pretty much shoot you, but no one complains about those, why should complain about protest then? and again wearing helmet to a protest means you are/might cause trouble. [B]Tents/sound withour permission[/B] - yes, I think police/authorities should be informed beforehand, this law is everywhere in EU (I think? ) [B]Disrespect for court [/B] - uhh, hello, that's obvious. I could keep going, but I agree with at least 70% of those. [editline]19th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=WhyNott;43974381]Aren't generalizing what you are doing right now though[/QUOTE] Yeah, because it seems that only violent protesters are left, on all news all I see is rocks and molotovs flying, any sane/calm person would stay behind in the protests in very back, but onfront of the crowd.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43974393][B]Driving[/B] - not agreed. [B]activity of...[/B] - not sure what that means? [B]violators of rules for peaceful protests[/B] - agreed, I believe all protests must be organised and kept peacefully. [B]Participating in protest wearing helmet etc..[/B] - agreed, that's same as many countries banning body armor wearing, police must be able to pretty much shoot you, but no one complains about those, why should complain about protest then? and again wearing helmet to a protest means you are/might cause trouble. [B]Tents/sound withour permission[/B] - yes, I think police/authorities should be informed beforehand, this law is everywhere in EU (I think? ) [B]Disrespect for court [/B] - uhh, hello, that's obvious. [B] [U]I could keep going, but I agree with at least 70% of those.[/U] [/B][/QUOTE] Please, keep going. Wouldn't have asked if I didn't care.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43974393]police must be able to pretty much shoot you[/QUOTE] W... I... H... Uh...
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43974393] Yeah, because it seems that only violent protesters are left, on all news all I see is rocks and molotovs flying, any sane/calm person would stay behind in the protests in very back, but onfront of the crowd.[/QUOTE] Violent =/= retared and/or insane Soemtimes you have to fight for your rights. Even if it involves throving rocks at people armed with AK-47's
[QUOTE=WhyNott;43974471]Violent =/= retared and/or insane Soemtimes you have to fight for your rights. Even if it involves throving rocks at people armed with AK-47's[/QUOTE] but if you are doing that, you must be ready/prepared to take consequences and not be like current protesters do: Provoke berkut get shit beaten out of them "Look EU, we got beaten up, come help us!" I don't agree with that method unless protesters are ready to take backlash
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43974499] "Look EU, we got beaten up, come help us!" [/QUOTE] [citation needed]
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43974434]Please, keep going. Wouldn't have asked if I didn't care.[/QUOTE] not obeying with request to limit access to internet - dont agree not obeying the sequiruty - agree protocol of administrative law infringement - agree the confirmation of judicial summonts - not sure what that is. blocking access to someones resident - what an actual fuck, please show me country where this is legal to do? defamation - assuming that means talking behind someones back/making rumors - agree distribution of extremist materials - 50/50 agree group violation of public order - agree mass disruptions - agree collecting info about police officer or judge - 50/50 agree threathening a policeman - seriously? come on, go to US cop and say he's a fat pig, I bet you wont walk away. foreign agent taxes - seriously? this is kind of funny and while I agree they must pay taxes for their incomes, but I also disagree that spies should be let off so easily just by paying tax (corruption, heard about it before ty) NGO's and churches cannot take part in... - agree, they are peaceful places for praying not building buke. The government can decide to phoh internet.. - dont agree state permission permission is required for.... - no opininon on this, I dont take part in any of those things so I dont care. A person can be ruled guilty without being present in court - agree, your own fault for not showing up. The owner of vehicles can be prosecuted instead of driver - 50/50 agree ( MP can be stripped immunity - agree riot police and officials who excempt... - agree [editline]19th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=DVH;43974508][citation needed][/QUOTE] That's what it looks like been happening, I haven't heard much of EU saying: "please people calm down and stop burning police"
It's still mostly the politicians fault for not agreeing to vote on the new laws this time. It's what stirred up people again and this time the far right wing extremeists came prepared.
[QUOTE=WhyNott;43974471]Violent =/= retared and/or insane Soemtimes you have to fight for your rights. Even if it involves throving rocks at people armed with AK-47's[/QUOTE] Or molotovs at those who only have shields and batons. And beating the living fuck out of those who already lost their shields, helmets, batons. Possibly beating to death. I'm not saying I support someone here. But what the fuck this kind of violence is barbaric.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43974545] That's what it looks like been happening, I haven't heard much of EU saying: "please people calm down and stop burning police"[/QUOTE] THats because they're saying "please people calm down stop stripping rights" instead. [I]Russia[/I] is saying "please people calm down and stop burning police"
[QUOTE=gudman;43974565]Or molotovs at those who only have shields and batons. And beating the living fuck out of those who already lost their shields, helmets, batons. Possibly beating to death. I'm not saying I support someone here. But what the fuck this kind of violence is barbaric.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the police themselves are also damn babaric. Remember those protestors that got kidnapped from hospitals by police forces?? Besides, they're people fighting for their [I]FREEDOM[/I], because a corrupt government would rather listen to sugardaddy Russia than the people it is supposed to represent... Meanwhile the police are doing it [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders"]because orders, but hey what have history told us about that[/URL]
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43974545]:downs:[/QUOTE] I'm merely asking of you to provide sources of protestors begging for the EU to intervene militarily, which is what I see in your quotation. Oh welp now he is banned. Means he has a week to look up some sources.
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43974690]I'm pretty sure the police themselves are also damn babaric. Remember those protestors that got kidnapped from hospitals by police forces?? Besides, they're people fighting for their [I]FREEDOM[/I], because a corrupt government would rather listen to sugardaddy Russia than the people it is supposed to represent... [/QUOTE] Again, I am not picking sides. [i]FREEDOM[/i] is great and all, and corrupt governments are bad, but I fear they won't get much freedom in a country where individuals who are calling people to arms are in power. And they sure as hell want to get there. To me at the moment, it seems like right-wing extremists are mostly running the show and sane people just barely manage to calm them down a bit. People with riot shields and molotovs, wearing helmets and body armor they took from beaten to near death policemen, who burn everything they can reach - cars, buses, trucks, trams etc. - don't look much like freedom fighters to me.
[url]https://opir.org/[/url] A map showing activity in Kiev/Ukraine
[QUOTE=DVH;43975193][url]https://opir.org/[/url] A map showing activity in Kiev/Ukraine[/QUOTE] this could be useful, if you're there on the other note. interesting that there are few events far outside the maidan
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26267220[/url] president has agreed to a truce
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;43975624][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26267220[/url] president has agreed to a truce[/QUOTE] Iirc this happened before
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