Tasmainia become the first Australian state to greenlight same sex marraige - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32421502]Again, US doesn't believe in total freedom of speech either. You can't incite a riot, you can't commit perjury, you can't threaten someone, you can be sued for lying about someone. This isn't free speech.[/quote] Yea, we do believe in total freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is being allowed to say what you want without actually threatening the physical safety of another person or purposefully lying about someone or something with the intent of damaging their livelihood. That is the closest to free speech you can get. [quote]When does being offended cross that line and become an actual unfair burden? [/quote] When it threatens the persons immediate safety. You can't say "I'm going to kill you tonight". You can say "Your dead family member will burn in hell". [quote]What about harassing views that are damaging to your reputation? Hate speech is exactly like slander, on a larger scale and with more victims. Those victims should be able to have some recourse.[/quote] Harassment is where someone feels threatened by someone else's actions or words. Harassment doesn't damage reputation. Anyways freedom of speech doesn't apply to purposely lying in order to harm another person's livelihood. If your views are ambiguous, and can't be shown as an intentional lie, it's fine. [quote]You're basing that on nothing and ignoring statistics to the contrary.[/QUOTE] You can't have freedom without freedom of speech and right to arm yourself. I don't care if some statistics say they have free elections. That doesn't matter if they don't have freedom. [editline]22nd September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=abcpea3;32421539]usa isnt even a first world country[/QUOTE] Um USA is the definition of first world country since first world country means a country that is aligned with the USA or NATO.

yawmwen, look. Your views on speech are valid. But the rest of the world only has to look at the US to see just how much societal regression can be caused by allowing vitriolic hate speech to fester, so we did something about it. It's fine that you believe that the US is the shining bastion of freedom in the world, but when statistics clearly show you're wrong expect to be taken to task on it.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32421584]yawmwen, look. Your views on speech are valid. But the rest of the world only has to look at the US to see just how much societal regression can be caused by allowing vitriolic hate speech to fester, so we did something about it. It's fine that you believe that the US is the shining bastion of freedom in the world, but when statistics clearly show you're wrong expect to be taken to task on it.[/QUOTE] I never said that it was. I said it was better than Australia. America has huge problems with freedom. This is a fundamental difference, and it's probably a cultural difference, but I don't think Australia can be considered free without free speech and freedom to bear arms. That's probably not something we will agree on, and maybe the rest of the world won't agree with me, but that's a fundamental to my belief system.

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Incarceration_rates_worldwide.gif[/img] freedom

[QUOTE=yawmwen;32421610] This is a fundamental difference, and it's probably a cultural difference, but I don't think Australia can be considered free without free speech and freedom to bear arms. That's probably not something we will agree on, and maybe the rest of the world won't agree with me, but that's a fundamental to my belief system.[/QUOTE] That's fine I guess. America still isn't more free than Australia though. I'm using hard numbers here, you're not going to convince me to ignore them.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32421644]That's fine I guess. America still isn't more free than Australia though. I'm using hard numbers here, you're not going to convince me to ignore them.[/QUOTE] And I'm using my own view of freedom and liberty. Which is probably where we are getting so mixed up. You are trying to use statistics and numbers to evaluate how free, on average, these countries are, while I use my own belief system. You won't convince me Australia is more free that way. You can call it thick headed, or ignorant, but there are few things I don't compromise on and one of those things is my core belief of freedom. Maybe Australia is more free by your definitions of freedom, but not by mine.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;32421667]You are trying to use statistics and numbers to evaluate how free, on average, these countries are, while I use my own belief system.[/QUOTE] I'm very sorry to hear that.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;32421667]And I'm using my own view of freedom and liberty. Which is probably where we are getting so mixed up. You are trying to use statistics and numbers to evaluate how free, on average, these countries are, while I use my own belief system. You won't convince me Australia is more free that way. You can call it thick headed, or ignorant, but there are few things I don't compromise on and one of those things is my core belief of freedom. Maybe Australia is more free by your definitions of freedom, but not by mine.[/QUOTE] I'm glad most people don't go by your definition.

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;32421681]I'm glad most people don't go by your definition.[/QUOTE] And it's incredibly sad for me. [editline]22nd September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;32421673]I'm very sorry to hear that.[/QUOTE] You can't objectively go about putting numbers to how free a country is. It's like putting numbers to how artistic something is. It's too fucking objective and people's definition of freedom is different, as I can attest to.

How about we all stop arguing about our Americas and Australias and move to Switzerland!

[QUOTE=yawmwen;32421695] You can't objectively go about putting numbers to how free a country is. It's like putting numbers to how artistic something is. It's too fucking objective and people's definition of freedom is different, as I can attest to.[/QUOTE] So if you acknowledge that people's definition of freedom is different, why are you so adamant that Australia is objectively less free than America? (You're right about the art comparison fyi, nice one)

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32421762]So if you acknowledge that people's definition of freedom is different, why are you so adamant that Australia is objectively less free than America? (You're right about the art comparison fyi, nice one)[/QUOTE] Most arguments come from two people trying to say their subjective idea is true. I didn't consciously realize my idea of freedom was even subjective until a few posts back. I kept thinking that freedom was something objective that all people could agree on, but I just realized that our definitions are fundamentally different. So thank you facepunch, you have made me even more consciously aware of my own core beliefs.

[QUOTE=OzJackal;32406338]Oh, if you think US politics are bad, you're gonna love Australia. We have had about five Premiers (state leaders) for New South Wales in the last two years and they've all left because they were incompetent or got embroiled in scandals. At the moment we have two parties in government who don't give two damns about what the public wants.[/QUOTE] I love my state. :australia: [sp]I wanna go hooooooome.[/sp]

And then suddenly floods.

[QUOTE=znk666;32421901]And then suddenly floods.[/QUOTE] Bushfires are worse I think. We had a nasty one two years ago the killed 190 people

[QUOTE=Pocket Medic;32421787]I love my state. :australia: [/QUOTE] Holy shit I thought I was the only Tasmanian.

[QUOTE=abcpea3;32418381]the greens are the WORST party, and the reason labor is being shittier than usual.[/QUOTE] Hence "okay" I think they are pretty average compared to Liberals/Labor though, there must be a good party somewhere?!?!?

[QUOTE=zedpenguin;32422368]Holy shit I thought I was the [b]only[/b] Tasmanian.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry? Out of the 507626 people that live in Tasmania you thought you would be the only Tasmanian?