• Poland Removes EU flag from Press conference
    56 replies, posted
Don't do it Poland, the moment you leave Germany will be at your door again
[QUOTE=Antlerp;49239764]Don't do it Poland, the moment you leave Germany will be at your door again[/QUOTE] Germans* Probably fleeing the insanity that is their immigration policy.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49239187]Old traditions are going to die off because they're old traditions, that's just what happens. Disconnecting Poland from the European Union will not stop that and will instead sour relations between Poland and the rest of Europe.[/QUOTE] I knew someone would try to make this solely about traditions if I mentioned it. That was an example. You know what an example is? Some one thing among many? The point is: EU is fine as a trade union. Not as a cultural-political union. And you don't put a flag of a trade union that your country is a member of as an equal to your own flag.
I hope things don't get fucked up in Poland too badly, I mean yeah shit's gonna change because new government and new policies, but I remain hopeful that it'll all fit together nicely.
[QUOTE=amorax;49238315]How is being pro-EU unpatriotic? This is something I've never understood about euro sceptics. Large GDP, immeasurable historic achievements, enormous potential for growth, and you really don't want to be a part of that? Seriously?[/QUOTE] Aren't there a number of non-economic laws passed by the EU these days on their member nations?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;49238156]As Far as I am aware it didnt have a counter-communist spirit, it was merely a revivalist movement after the devastation of WWII and aiming to promote peace among Europe, no?[/QUOTE] Yes it did have Economically speaking, the COMECON was the Commie scum answer to the Marshall plan. But it didn't just end there, It kept existing.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49237767]It's hard to blame anybody for removing the EU flag at the moment considering how badly we've fucked up with almost every decision. Good luck in your country, Poland. <3[/QUOTE] what, did you guy's fuck up,.?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;49240081]I knew someone would try to make this solely about traditions if I mentioned it. That was an example. You know what an example is? Some one thing among many? [/QUOTE] You only mentioned tradition though. Its hard to blame him for focusing on one specific thing when you only mentioned one specific thing
[QUOTE=WhyNott;49243528]You only mentioned tradition though. Its hard to blame him for focusing on one specific thing when you only mentioned one specific thing[/QUOTE] If you ignore majority of my post then yeah. [QUOTE=Silly Sil;49238713]EU is no longer just an economical union. There are notions about being a citizen of Europe before being a citizen of the actual country you're in and "forget about polish culture, we are all europeans now" etc. [I][example about traditions deleted][/I] If EU was only a big trade agreement (like it was at the beginning) there wouldn't be an issue about it being patriotic or not.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;49238713]EU is no longer just an economical union. There are notions about being a citizen of Europe before being a citizen of the actual country you're in and "forget about polish culture, we are all europeans now" etc. Old traditions are dying off and are replaced with new ones that came from the west. As an atheist I don't give a fuck about for instance halloween being absolutely haram to a christian but I can acknowledge that things are changing. If EU was only a big trade agreement (like it was at the beginning) there wouldn't be an issue about it being patriotic or not. Uhhh you want to list the achievements of the last ruling party? Because other than taking a big pile of money from EU I don't remember anything they've done right. I can give you a list of major fuck ups tho.[/QUOTE] Stable economic and infrastructural growth for one. Also maintaining secularism, which pis already fucked up. In vitro will soon be illegal because the head bishops think its bad [editline]4th December 2015[/editline] Not to mention pis is breaching the constitution with the current jurisdiction affair.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;49238713]EU is no longer just an economical union. There are notions about being a citizen of Europe before being a citizen of the actual country you're in and "forget about polish culture, we are all europeans now" etc. Old traditions are dying off and are replaced with new ones that came from the west. As an atheist I don't give a fuck about for instance halloween being absolutely haram to a christian but I can acknowledge that things are changing. If EU was only a big trade agreement (like it was at the beginning) there wouldn't be an issue about it being patriotic or not. Uhhh you want to list the achievements of the last ruling party? Because other than taking a big pile of money from EU I don't remember anything they've done right. I can give you a list of major fuck ups tho.[/QUOTE] The EU isn't about suppressing culture at all. Thats utter fallacy. The western culture you are averse to is from general globalisation, lots of brits and germans dislike the american halloween crap also, proper british folk music and folk dancing has suffered a HUGE decline in the past few decades due to the mass produced pop garbage . The European capital for culture is allocated with the intention to celebrate the host nations culture and diversity in members cultures as a whole. As for the economic union imo free trade and free movement go together. Why should we be seperate and isolated? do you not enjoy free travel? poland has benefited immensely from the EU, I'm not saying you owe the EU anything but you should be able to recognise something which has done so much good for your country. If you are going to criticise the EU then at least complain about something legit like the European Commission legitimacy or the shared monetary policy without shared fiscal policy leading to stuff like greece or the potential for it to be used to force austerity on member nations (greece again, ironically this issue is sort of contradictory to the issue above). EU has its issues but over all it is great and generally for the benefit of us all.
[QUOTE=proch;49243942]Stable economic and infrastructural growth for one. Also maintaining secularism, which pis already fucked up. In vitro will soon be illegal because the head bishops think its bad[/QUOTE] What exactly did PO do to ensure stable economic and infrastructural growth apart from taking all the EU money and not fucking everything up? And stable infrastructural growth? You already forgot the enormous highway scam that bankrupted lots of small polish building companies? How about all those coal mines getting shut down because they are terrible managed and taxed? Shale gas? What shale gas, nobody remembers it anymore. I'll give you secularism. PiS is terrible at it. [QUOTE=proch;49243942]Not to mention pis is breaching the constitution with the current jurisdiction affair.[/QUOTE] PO didn't write the constitution tho. So I don't know why you're putting it on a list of what PO did right that PiS is fucking up. Look I'm not saying PiS is good. I'm saying PO was terrible. They were pocketing as much money as they could. I mean even the money they filed for gas for work related journeys. They didn't really do much good. And I also understand why PiS is taking away the EU flag. [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49243979]The EU isn't about suppressing culture at all. Thats utter fallacy. The western culture you are [B]averse [/B]to is from general globalisation, lots of brits and germans dislike the american halloween crap also, proper british folk music and folk dancing has suffered a HUGE decline in the past few decades due to the mass produced pop garbage . The European capital for culture is allocated with the intention to celebrate the host nations culture and diversity in members cultures as a whole.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;49238713]As an atheist [B]I don't give a fuck [/B]about for instance halloween being absolutely haram to a christian but I can acknowledge that things are changing.[/QUOTE] Where the fuck do I averse it? You wanna stop putting words in my mouth? And I didn't say EU is directly suppressing culture. I was talking about people's identity being changed. There are movements about being european first before you are say polish. That's why the "patriotic" angle comes up. And if you identify as european and not as polish then you're not going give a fuck about polish culture. If EU is only an economic union there is no reason to put a flag of an economic union as an equal to your own flag and you should have no problem with what PiS has done. [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49243979]As for the economic union imo free trade and free movement go together. Why should we be seperate and isolated? do you not enjoy free travel? poland has benefited immensely from the EU, I'm not saying you owe the EU anything but you should be able to recognise something which has done so much good for your country.[/QUOTE] You wanna point out where I said there should be no free movement? Or are you again putting words in my mouth or talking to people that don't exist? [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49243979]If you are going to criticise the EU then at least complain about something legit like the European Commission legitimacy or the shared monetary policy without shared fiscal policy leading to stuff like greece or the potential for it to be used to force austerity on member nations (greece again, ironically this issue is sort of contradictory to the issue above). EU has its issues but over all it is great and generally for the benefit of us all.[/QUOTE] Okay every single one of your arguments is a fucking strawman. I'm not listing you arguments why EU is bad? I only explained why the patriotic angle comes up and said EU is no longer just an economical union and if it is then there should be no problem with what PiS is doing with the flag.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;49238669]Of Course! Poor sod, you wanted to, could have put up that fence on your border to keep dirty brown peeple out, but evil politicians in Brussels made you not. With what did they threaten you? Military Intervention, Atomic weapons? Or pehaps your government, your people's elected represantatives, fully cooperated? Hungary very well disagrees. But, since EU didnt cause a refugee crisis, instead [I]fucked up blasted to pieces third world countries being fucked up and resulting in locals not wanting to live there anymore just for example Syrian Civil war[/I] did, even Hungary received an influx of refugees. Instead you would desire them to stay in Turkey or Bulgaria or Morocco or Tunisia to rot in "Refugee Camps" Aka mass graves of either starvation or if theyre better off deprivation of only some human rights, well, then you should pretty much pay up like Germany to stop them from turning into actual, real mass graves.[/QUOTE] Consideirng I said none of that and you made random fucking assumptions I guess I should be more clear The EU handled the refugee crisis terribly. They overestimated their nations, underestimated the amount of people coming, and failed to find out who was a real refugee or some ISIS terrorist or economic migrant. The entire event was a disaster that overfilled German villages, strained social programs, and has led to a rise of the Far Right. The EU handled the refugee crisis terribly, not because "ewww brown ppl" strawman, but because nobody else helped the EU, or worked to flood the EU for political and economic gain(turkey) and the EU failed to properly handle the situation.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;49244171]What exactly did PO do to ensure stable economic and infrastructural growth apart from taking all the EU money and not fucking everything up? And stable infrastructural growth? You already forgot the enormous highway scam that bankrupted lots of small polish building companies? How about all those coal mines getting shut down because they are terrible managed and taxed? Shale gas? What shale gas, nobody remembers it anymore. [/QUOTE] Yep, PO was (and is) a bunch of fuck-ups, but still introducing new taxes (large area shop tax, bank tax and don't even get me started on the "audiovisual" shit) isn't exactly ensuring growth. And don't tell me there won't be any scams and defraudations, PiS did exactly the same shit the last time they were elected. In other words, doing nothing is shit, but it's better than fucking everything up. [editline]4th December 2015[/editline] Forgot to add: this flag thingy is just a PR stunt for their voters, they will still accept quotas and do everything like the rest of the EU. Just like they always did.
[QUOTE=Lance99;49244321]Yep, PO was (and is) a bunch of fuck-ups, but still introducing new taxes (large area shop tax, bank tax and don't even get me started on the "audiovisual" shit) isn't exactly ensuring growth. And don't tell me there won't be any scams and defraudations, PiS did exactly the same shit the last time they were elected. In other words, doing nothing is shit, but it's better than fucking everything up. [editline]4th December 2015[/editline] Forgot to add: this flag thingy is just a PR stunt for their voters, they will still accept quotas and do everything like the rest of the EU. Just like they always did.[/QUOTE] Please don't perpetuate the prevalent false dichotomy of our country politics. Just because I shit on PO doesn't mean I support PiS or think they will do much better. All I know is unlike PO they will do a lot of things, I don't know if it's going to be for better or worse. And of course they have to follow quotas. These have been decided by the UE. What can they do about it? Leave the EU?
Well everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Although I think we agree that PIS is terrible.
PiS is as much conservative as much I am black.
[QUOTE=Netheous;49245816]PiS is as much conservative as much I am black.[/QUOTE] Wait, you are black? Huh, okay.
[QUOTE=Damjen;49245990]Wait, you are black? Huh, okay.[/QUOTE] Another retard thinking PiS is conservative because majority of it's voters are catholic grannies and grandpas. Especially with Lech Kaczy&#324;ski signing the Treaty of Lisbon - turning European Union into a legal entity and giving up Poland's own sovereignty. Yeah! Let's give up our Polish/European values such as 'an eye for an eye'. Let's get rid of capital punishment for murderers. Let's give up all the catholic values europe was built on. Conservative as fuck!
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;49237908]I think the general idea is that we're not citizens of European Union first but Polish people first. And that we want to remain Poland instead of being a state in EU.[/QUOTE] Why though? It boggles my mind why people prefer being in smaller groups. Isn't every human being's goal global unity? Humanity uniting as one whole? No countries, one currency (or no currency), no strife?
[QUOTE=Hyperbole;49247020]Why though? It boggles my mind why people prefer being in smaller groups. Isn't every human being's goal global unity? Humanity uniting as one whole? No countries, one currency (or no currency), no strife?[/QUOTE] Do you think that large, supranational bodies are good at providing the best for the welfare for you personally? There is a reason that there are very few truly multiethnic states left in the world and that's because people feel marginalised by a distant government. Even in countries like the US people feel strong distance from the federal government - imagine how great that may feel if the people who are governing you don't even speak your language. Also your point on one currency is pretty funny to me. Different countries need different monetary policy and differently valued currency. Struggling economies like Finland would probably start to devalue their currency to boost exports, but because of strong countries like Germany, their exports are hurt by an effectively overvalued currency. Monetary union cannot work properly without political union, and I oppose political union on the above grounds.
[QUOTE=Hyperbole;49247020]Why though? It boggles my mind why people prefer being in smaller groups. Isn't every human being's goal global unity? Humanity uniting as one whole? No countries, one currency (or no currency), no strife?[/QUOTE] No. The majority of the world's population does not want that, and really there are very few points in history when a very large number of people did. Even in the case of something like the EU you're not fusing everything together, but simply adding a new layer on top of what's already there (which is also how the United States became a thing). That's the limit of what's realistically possible, and the repeated failures of communism backs it up.
[QUOTE=Hyperbole;49247020]Why though? It boggles my mind why people prefer being in smaller groups. Isn't every human being's goal global unity? Humanity uniting as one whole? No countries, one currency (or no currency), no strife?[/QUOTE] Absolutely not, what the hell kind of kool-aid are you drinking?
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