Leftist Mexican Pres. Candidate surging in polls, call Trump "neo-fascist," plans to challenge USA - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Colossal_Dragon;51879757]This guy is a communist and will no doubt fuck over what little relationship we have with Mexico if he wins. Why can't Mexico just own up to their damn problems and start fixing it? I would love to see Mexico with the standards of Canada, but if they keep electing leaders with ego problems I don't ever see that happening.[/QUOTE] Ah yes it's this simple. I'd like you to provide an answer on how they can fix it. I mean really, aside from a recent slump, economically they've been growing a lot and the standard of living has climbed a lot as well. The worst problem that plagues them is corruption really, a huge part stemming from the drug cartels. The US can have a large part in alleviating this problem, because Mexico is already in an almost civil-war (hundreds of thousands are dead) trying to put down these cartels, but demand empowers them so much. edit: just to be clear, im not saying it's all on us or that I have the magic solution either. But this is a global world and we DO have a large effect on Mexico. And at best just saying "lol sort it yourself" is ignorant, and at worst pulling the bullshit trump plans on pulling will actually worsen the situation by damaging mexico's economy.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;51879956]You're asking the wrong question. You should be asking: "What caused fascism to come into existence?" Society has a right of self-preservation, but fascism [I]is[/I] society's self preservation instinct. Germany grew to favor fascism in the late 20s and 30s because they had been royally screwed over by WWI, and their people wanted revenge. When they saw a "hero" to do so, that's when fascism grew.[/QUOTE] I am well aware of why fascism came into existence. Both Germany and Italy were under serious threat from communist revolution, and the fascists allied with conservatives and the establishment to consolidate power and crush the communists (there were way, way more factors than just this, however). Once in power, well, you know the rest. It is worth noting that Hitler was democratically elected (Edit: disregard, the Nazi's were democratically elected, but Hitler was not), as after he failed at violently seizing power in '33 he realized that getting elected was the only way forward. Mussolini was also democratically elected. The liberal democracies of the world, along with the (very illiberal) Soviet Union were the vanguards protecting their societies, so that kind of shits on the whole "fascism is society's preservation mechanism." Lastly, none of this pertains to your original point, which is that I should soften my rhetoric against fascists, which is the wrong answer. Pew Research polls indicate that Democrats/Democrat-leaners' biggest fear is that the Democratic Party won't do [I]enough [/I]to stop Trump. The fear of a rapid descent into an authoritarian, hyper-masculine, fact-denying, repressive state is very real, and softening rhetoric against said descent will only further allow it to become a reality. What do you suggest doing, instead?

[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51879992]It is worth noting that Hitler was democratically elected, as after he failed at violently seizing power in '33 he realized that getting elected was the only way forward. [/QUOTE] [B][U][I]WRONG[/I][/U][/B] Hitler LOST the ONLY election he ran in. He was then [I]appointed[/I] to being Chancellor, to which he simply amassed power from the then executive branch, the presidency. Afterward, the government, which were now under the majority (but not absolute) control of the Nazi Party, granted him more after the Reichstag burnt down. Know your fucking history about fascism if you want to debate against it.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51880035][B][U][I]WRONG[/I][/U][/B] Hitler LOST the ONLY election he ran in. He was then [I]appointed[/I] to being Chancellor, to which he simply amassed power from the then executive branch, the presidency. Afterward, the government, which were now under the majority (but not absolute) control of the Nazi Party, granted him more after the Reichstag burnt down. Know your fucking history about fascism if you want to debate against it.[/QUOTE] You're right, I stand corrected. I can't believe I didn't remember this, I spent around 6 months studying fascism almost exclusively a couple years ago, especially the Nazis. Thanks for keeping me honest :) Edit: Ah now I see why, the Nazi's amassed a majority through democratic elections, but Hitler himself was not democratically elected. That's where I fucked up. Still, though, the point I was making remains the same.

dis gonna be good. of course though it will only fuel the republican fringe that wants to eliminate the UN

[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51880046]You're right, I stand corrected. I can't believe I didn't remember this, I spent around 6 months studying fascism almost exclusively a couple years ago, especially the Nazis. Thanks for keeping me honest :) Edit: Ah now I see why, the Nazi's amassed a majority through democratic elections, but Hitler himself was not democratically elected. That's where I fucked up.[/QUOTE] It's a very unfortunate and very common misconception that I am determined to correct no matter where I see it. I honestly see an unelected official turning into a tyrant as possibly worse than an elected one.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51880152][B]It's a very unfortunate and very common misconception that I am determined to correct no matter where I see it.[/B] I honestly see an unelected official turning into a tyrant as possibly worse than an elected one.[/QUOTE] Hey man, I hear you. I use my knowledge of history like a cudgel to course-correct falsehoods whenever I can as well :) I, too, see an unelected tyrant as worse than an elected one, though the net result is the same: tyrant in the executive.

[QUOTE=Colossal_Dragon;51879757]This guy is a communist and will no doubt fuck over what little relationship we have with Mexico if he wins.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51879828]Another country going further left because we've gone further right isn't going to help the issue, it's going to make it worse. It causes international friction, hurts commerce, and at the very worse, causes open conflict.[/QUOTE] Maybe if America didn't elect a man who made antagonizing Mexico a cornerstone of his campaign, Mexicans wouln't feel the need to react with a strong leader of their own to stand up to the American leadership. We'll have to see whether he gets elected or not.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51880269]Maybe if America didn't elect a man who made antagonizing Mexico a cornerstone of his campaign, Mexicans wouln't feel the need to react with a strong leader of their own to stand up to the American leadership. We'll have to see whether he gets elected or not.[/QUOTE] While this is true, it's also done and over with. Mexico has the option to not delve into extremity now while ours is gone.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51879987]Ah yes it's this simple. I'd like you to provide an answer on how they can fix it. I mean really, aside from a recent slump, economically they've been growing a lot and the standard of living has climbed a lot as well. The worst problem that plagues them is corruption really, a huge part stemming from the drug cartels. The US can have a large part in alleviating this problem, because Mexico is already in an almost civil-war (hundreds of thousands are dead) trying to put down these cartels, but demand empowers them so much. edit: just to be clear, im not saying it's all on us or that I have the magic solution either. But this is a global world and we DO have a large effect on Mexico. And at best just saying "lol sort it yourself" is ignorant, and at worst pulling the bullshit trump plans on pulling will actually worsen the situation by damaging mexico's economy.[/QUOTE] All I know is Mexican politicians insulting Trump, calling him a neo-fascist, relating him to Hitler is not going to help their country in anyway, and will no doubt make it way worse than what it already is. I'm not saying that Mexico should just ignore us and focus on themselves either, I'm saying that their needs to be a dialog between our country's to get to the solution no matter how harsh Trump words are to them. We need a relationship with them and they need to be transparent and vocal with their problems and we will assist them, but Mexico has to be the first to take charge. Because it shows the American people that they're not ignoring our border issues or drug issues but are trying their best to correct those problems and it shows the Mexican people that their government is seeking on improving their lives. Rather than "lol fuck trump he's racist and a neo-nazi." With the Mexican peso at its lowest in decades, and people protesting over gasoline prices and clean water, cartels and corruption taking over, this is the perfect hotbed for a radical leader to pop up, and Mexico isolating itself from America is only going to make it happen sooner. With the most recent example of them threatening to ban corn trade from the US.

With a leftist government to our south and a centre-left government to our north...hmmm Maybe, through osmosis, we'll enter the 21st century? A man can dream.

[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51880415]With a leftist government to our south and a centre-left government to our north...hmmm Maybe, through osmosis, we'll enter the 21st century? A man can dream.[/QUOTE] Americans have never cared about what other governments elected when voting for our own.

[QUOTE=Colossal_Dragon;51880404]All I know is Mexican politicians insulting Trump, calling him a neo-fascist, relating him to Hitler is not going to help their country in anyway, and will no doubt make it way worse than what it already is. I'm not saying that Mexico should just ignore us and focus on themselves either, I'm saying that their needs to be a dialog between our country's to get to the solution no matter how harsh Trump words are to them. We need a relationship with them and they need to be transparent and vocal with their problems and we will assist them, but Mexico has to be the first to take charge. Because it shows the American people that they're not ignoring our border issues or drug issues but are trying their best to correct those problems and it shows the Mexican people that their government is seeking on improving their lives. Rather than "lol fuck trump he's racist and a neo-nazi." With the Mexican peso at its lowest in decades, and people protesting over gasoline prices and clean water, cartels and corruption taking over, this is the perfect hotbed for a radical leader to pop up, and Mexico isolating itself from America is only going to make it happen sooner. With the most recent example of them threatening to ban corn trade from the US.[/QUOTE] Except the way things have already gone, the only viable solution is if he drops the idea of the stupid wall or fence or whatever the hell he's going to build, and then squeezing Mexico for the money after it gets finished. You impoverish your neighbor, you're only gonna make it worse for them as it is, and possibly open the door to the cartels turning the government completely into their bitch, not that the country isn't riddled with enough crime and corruption already. It's not just a question of mean words on either side, Trump and his administration should also be willing to throw Mexico a bone instead of expecting them to 100% make contributions towards his pharaonic delusion of a wall. If you push hard enough, sooner or later, people push back, such as Mexico threatening to leave NAFTA and forbidding exports to America. Either Trump realizes this basic fact or his actions might cause further instability.