Obama says fight for gun laws 'ought to obsess us' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42280058]soooo are you saying Da Vinci could have painted the Mona Lisa without a paintbrush?[/QUOTE] fingerpainting isn't fundamentally different from using a brush

[QUOTE=butre;42280114]fingerpainting isn't fundamentally different from using a brush[/QUOTE] it's a hell of a lot more difficult

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42280148]it's a hell of a lot more difficult[/QUOTE] it's harder to get really fine lines but other than that no it's not

lmfao well I [I]assume [/I]the finger painting in this metaphor would be knifing so if you want to seriously argue that spree stabbing is just as effective as spree shooting be my guest otherwise you're just wasting time and picking apart the wrong side of the mataphor (and even though it's unrelated I can't believe you'd seriously argue that finger painting is just as efficient as using a brush :v:)

[QUOTE=areolop;42278830]Gun control isnt the issue; treatment for the mentally ill is.[/QUOTE] mandatory gun courses should be in place, too many idiots that do dumb shit with guns and they, or others end up getting severely injured or killed. Should have to do a 1-day course every 6 months or a year to see that you can handle it safely. Mental health should be a priority though.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42280210]lmfao well I [I]assume [/I]the finger painting in this metaphor would be knifing so if you want to seriously argue that spree stabbing is just as effective as spree shooting be my guest otherwise you're just wasting time and picking apart the wrong side of the mataphor (and even though it's unrelated I can't believe you'd seriously argue that finger painting is just as efficient as using a brush :v:)[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre[/url] [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/china-knife-attack_n_3815300.html[/url] [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/10/us-usa-stabbing-texas-idUSBRE9380Y420130410[/url] [url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-stabbing-spree-hurts-22-schoolchildren-1.1169054[/url] bonus [url]http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx[/url]

[QUOTE=MIPS;42277678]Hard to regulate firearms when it's one of the foundations of your country. He might just have to live with the fact that everyone's going to have a gun and there will continue to be mass shootings.[/QUOTE] I'd have to agree. No other country in the world has the gun culture that America. Guns in America are a right and the founding fathers were wise to put it in our bill of rights. Guns helped win the Revolution, settle the west, put meat on the table, stop thugs, and they're just plain fun to shoot. The laws we have about guns are reasonable enough as they are. If someone goes on a killing spree, let law enforcement deal with the jackass and let the family grieve in their own way. There's no need to use the victim's grave as a platform for your plans to undermine our freedom.

[QUOTE=butre;42280465][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre[/url] [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/china-knife-attack_n_3815300.html[/url] [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/10/us-usa-stabbing-texas-idUSBRE9380Y420130410[/url] [url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-stabbing-spree-hurts-22-schoolchildren-1.1169054[/url] bonus [url]http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx[/url][/QUOTE] You just proved my point. The worst stabbing sprees you can think of are nowhere near as bad as shooting sprees

America - Land of the free (to be killed in mass shootings)

[QUOTE=cqbcat;42280503]settle the west[/QUOTE] Yeah guns helped with the slaughter and genocide of native americans what a good positive argument [editline]23rd September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;42277670]why dont you focus on the real issue obama, mental health. that guy was completely nuts and received zero treatment but no, of course fixing our mental health system cant be solved by banning something so thats far too much effort for you huh[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Obama said it's clear from the Navy Yard shooting that the country needs to do a better job to secure its military facilities and improve mental health services, but also address gun laws.[/QUOTE] Why don't you focus on that reading issue. Of course doing something that doesn't involve making assumptions from your own ingrained beliefs and further ingraining them would be too much effort huh

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42280556]Yeah guns helped with the slaughter and genocide of native americans what a good positive argument[/QUOTE] Because settling the west played a key role in the development and progress of our great nation? That's a positive argument. Yes, some native americans got slaughtered but what happened is in the past and I don't think there's anyone sincerely sorry about it. Tough luck. It's not like any other major civilization in the past like the romans or mongolians didn't do the same thing.

[QUOTE=Van-man;42277652]I wouldn't be surprised if the drugs coming from Mexico into the US is paid with weapons and ammunition bought from a private party. [editline]23rd September 2013[/editline] Catch-22 You want retards without guns? make transferring gun ownership happening with a government controlled third party no matter what. In most cases that's already done with automobiles, so why not firearms?[/QUOTE] because firearms are protected specifically in the constitution We never made an amendment to protect someone's right to own a car. So it can get quite tricky with firearms. [editline]23rd September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lonestriper;42280553]America - Land of the free (to be killed in mass shootings)[/QUOTE] Australia – Land of the free (to be obese)

[QUOTE=cqbcat;42280597]Because settling the west played a key role in the development and progress of our great nation? That's a positive argument. Yes, some native americans got slaughtered but what happened is in the past and I don't think there's anyone sincerely sorry about it. Tough luck. It's not like any other major civilization in the past like the romans or mongolians didn't do the same thing.[/QUOTE] So your argument is "guns are good because we used them to slaughter natives but that turned out to be a good thing because we profited off it"

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42280545]You just proved my point. The worst stabbing sprees you can think of are nowhere near as bad as shooting sprees[/QUOTE] those are just the most recent I can think of, not the worst

[QUOTE=butre;42280637]those are just the most recent I can think of, not the worst[/QUOTE] The Chinese one and one at a Japanese school you missed (8 victims) are pretty much the worst ones

The point is that even if guns were to magically disappear from the hands of all civilians, there will still be motivated people, still be new tools to kill, and will still be mass killings.

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42280663]The point is that even if guns were to magically disappear from the hands of all civilians, there will still be motivated people, still be new tools to kill, and will still be mass killings.[/QUOTE] You're basically left with bombs (which are deadlier than guns but difficult to make. See: columbine) and knives, which are much less effective. Would there still be murder? Yeah. But spree killings? Not nearly as much.

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42280663]The point is that even if guns were to magically disappear from the hands of all civilians, there will still be motivated people, still be new tools to kill, and will still be mass killings.[/QUOTE] The point is to reduce the number, not erase it entirely, because you will never be able to do that. Unless you honestly think it's [I]just as easy to kill just as many people[/I] with knives.

[QUOTE=Megafan;42280692]The point is to reduce the number, not erase it entirely, because you will never be able to do that. Unless you honestly think it's [I]just as easy to kill just as many people[/I] with knives.[/QUOTE] Let's not forget to acknowledge the existence of bombs, chemicals, and disease...

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42280728]Let's not forget to acknowledge the existence of bombs, chemicals, and disease...[/QUOTE] I did, in my post. Well not chemicals and disease but what disturbed kid is going to get his hands on chemical and biological weapons lol

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42280683][U]You're basically left with bombs[/U] (which are deadlier than guns but difficult to make. See: columbine) and knives, which are much less effective. Would there still be murder? Yeah. But spree killings? Not nearly as much.[/QUOTE] The worst school massacre in the history of the United States was caused by a pissed off old man with a truckload of dynamite.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42280739]I did, in my post. Well not chemicals and disease but what disturbed kid is going to get his hands on chemical and biological weapons lol[/QUOTE] Well I could think of a way to do chemical disease may be more unlikely but its a definite possibility. Especially since not all of these kinds of people are disturbed [B][I]kids.[/I][/B]

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42280683]You're basically left with bombs (which are deadlier than guns but difficult to make. See: columbine) and knives, which are much less effective. Would there still be murder? Yeah. But spree killings? Not nearly as much.[/QUOTE] bombs aren't difficult to make. any idiot can pour kerosine on fertilizer and stuff it in a can

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42280814]The worst school massacre in the history of the United States was caused by a pissed off old man with a truckload of dynamite.[/QUOTE] Which are currently both harder to get and harder to use, assuming we're not just talking about fuel + fire or whatever concoction you might otherwise think of. Unsurprisingly those don't constitute a great deal of school killings percentage-wise.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;42277612]Media is the only reason why there is such a backlash against current gun laws. Stop giving gunmen attention or more people will copycat the shootings.[/QUOTE] All the media cares about is attention, the more shootings there are, the more people watch the news. They have no moral obligations.

The fact that he assaulted a military base and got 12 kills before being taken down is not a show of "OH WE NEED MORE GUN LAWS" the pro-restriction argument has always been that "CITIZENS DONT NEED GUNS, THATS WHAT POLICE IS FOR" but this guy literally ATTACKED THE MILITARY and got 12 people before they got him. If the police/military can't even protect themselves, how are they supposed to protect us?

[QUOTE=ossumsauce;42282702]The fact that he assaulted a military base and got 12 kills before being taken down is not a show of "OH WE NEED MORE GUN LAWS" the pro-restriction argument has always been that "CITIZENS DONT NEED GUNS, THATS WHAT POLICE IS FOR" but this guy literally ATTACKED THE MILITARY and got 12 people before they got him. If the police/military can't even protect themselves, how are they supposed to protect us?[/QUOTE] it was a fucking [I]naval yard[/I].

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;42280553]America - Land of the free (to be killed in mass shootings)[/QUOTE] Why do even quality posters suddenly start posting emotional and/or stupid bullshit whenever gun control comes up?

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42280814]The worst school massacre in the history of the United States was caused by a pissed off old man with a truckload of dynamite.[/QUOTE] yup exception to the rule [QUOTE=butre;42280981]bombs aren't difficult to make. any idiot can pour kerosine on fertilizer and stuff it in a can[/QUOTE] Tell that to Dylan and Eric. Comlumbine was originally a bombing, but the bomb thankfully failed to go off, so they rolled out plan B. [editline]23rd September 2013[/editline] I'm gonna throw you a bone though guys since you missed the big one: Timothy McVeigh. His whole campaign was to show how much destruction one man could cause, with bombs. Now I'd argue that not everyone is a Timothy McVeigh, who was military trained, and calculating rather than impassioned and troubled. I'd also argue that bombs are constructed from materials with variable uses which don't involve killing, whereas a gun is a single tool literally designed to kill stuff better. Note that I've never once called for gun control in this thread. My point is just that saying guns are not a factor in spree killings / mass murder is absurd.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42283844]Tell that to Dylan and Eric. Comlumbine was originally a bombing, but the bomb thankfully failed to go off, so they rolled out plan B.[/QUOTE] that's because they tried to use propane bombs and propane bombs hardly ever work properly