• Trumps head of energy is a climate change denialist
    213 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ChinChilla;51344048]Freaking out about things that may or may not happen not even 12 hours after he is elected. You do realize that if Hillary was elected there was a very real chance of full scale nuclear war?[/QUOTE] holy fuck you can vote
[QUOTE=1legmidget;51343993]McKenna doesn't inspire much hope either. I can't find much about him personally, but looking at the institutions he worked for I'm not impressed. [URL="http://americanenergyalliance.org/initiatives/ozone-rule/"]Decreased ozone regulation[/URL]? Why on earth? [URL="http://americanenergyalliance.org/initiatives/renewable-fuel-standard-2/"]Less biofuels[/URL]? While I agree corn ethanol is a bad idea, Trump stated he was for it back when he was campaigning in Iowa during the primaries. [URL="http://americanenergyalliance.org/initiatives/end-wind-welfare/"]Cutting wind subsidies[/URL]? After all we've invested in fossil fuels over the past couple hundred years wind is hardly a threat. The other organization's site isn't all that better, [URL="http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/topics/policy/energy-efficiency/"]with bits railing against promoting more energy efficient products[/URL], and still nothing promoting the use of nuclear power. More coal. More oil. That's about it.[/QUOTE] Unless we start to see the government subsidizing coal, more coal won't be happened. It's not the economical choice. Not to say some fossil fuel will replace them, but I'd take natural gas over coal any day (I'd still much rather prefer greener options). [QUOTE=Saphirx;51343416]the world [I]needs[/I] the US to set a precedent for clean energy, for fuck sake why should China and India push for it when the US won't[/QUOTE] Pollution has a real economic effect beyond environmental, primarily health. [url=http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/781521473177013155/pdf/108141-REVISED-Cost-of-PollutionWebCORRECTEDfile.pdf]Full report here for 2013 (most recent year)[/url]. In that year, 14.4% of deaths for East Asia and Pacific, and 13.7% for South Asia, were attributed to air pollution. Pollution led to $225 Billion in lost labour income, and $5.11 trillion in welfare losses, both worldwide. For China and India, their welfare losses were 10% and 7.69% of their GDP. Regardless of whether or not you believe in Global Warming (despite all evidence indicating so), pollution does have a noticeable effect on the economy just from health problems.
[QUOTE=ChinChilla;51344014]You guys are fucking drama queens holy shit[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ChinChilla;51344048]Freaking out about things that may or may not happen not even 12 hours after he is elected. You do realize that if Hillary was elected there was a very real chance of full scale nuclear war?[/QUOTE] You can't make this shit up.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51343094][URL="http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/earth-on-fire-global-warming.jpg"]AaaaAAAAAAAHHH[/URL] the sad thing is, even if climate change isn't a real thing, how is alt energy bad? Why SHOULDN'T we go with that either way?[/QUOTE] If alt energy is truly needed right now, its proponents should be able to stand on their own without mounds of taxpayer money.
[QUOTE=ChinChilla;51344048]Freaking out about things that may or may not happen not even 12 hours after he is elected. You do realize that if Hillary was elected there was a very real chance of full scale nuclear war?[/QUOTE] [quote]Freaking out about things that may or may not happen not even 12 hours after he is elected.[/quote] [quote]You do realize that if Hillary was elected there was a very real chance of full scale nuclear war?[/quote] [quote]Freaking out about things that may or may not happen[/quote] [quote]if Hillary was elected there was a very real chance of full scale nuclear war[/quote] Are you okay
Nono, guys you don't understand. It's only okay to freak out about hypothetical scenarios when it involves Hilary.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51344260]If alt energy is truly needed right now, its proponents should be able to stand on their own without mounds of taxpayer money.[/QUOTE] What are you trying to suggest, like I really don't get it. The private sector's going to start building windfarms and nuclear reactors?
[QUOTE=Chonch;51344260]If alt energy is truly needed right now, its proponents should be able to stand on their own without mounds of taxpayer money.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA%20FFSR%20progress%20report%20to%20G20%202014%20Final.pdf"]We currently subsidize the shit out of fossil fuels[/URL]. We spend billions (plural) on them every year, and have for a long ass time. If you want to try to level the market, you're going to have to go after oil subsidies too, and there are good arguments for diverting those funds into nuclear and other alternatives so that those industries can catch up.
[QUOTE=ChinChilla;51344048]Freaking out about things that may or may not happen not even 12 hours after he is elected. You do realize that if Hillary was elected there was a very real chance of full scale nuclear war?[/QUOTE] I have to ask, what compelled you to believe that?
Climate change being a chinese conspiracy is sure going to hold up when the entire county of Seychelles is underwater and coastal cities have to be abandoned
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;51343663]Every Democrat on Facepunch tried to stop Hillary at the primaries. We [I]tried[/I] to give you Bernie.[/QUOTE]I remember a lot of people telling me I was insane for pointing out how fucking corrupt she is and how awful she is, here and elsewhere. Then you insulted Bernie supporters for protesting outside the DNC and making fun of them, laughing at them for crying. You did not try hard enough. Enjoy your new president. [QUOTE=Radical_ed;51343893]Fuck right off, you know true and well that the only reason Hillary won the primary was because the DNC pulled some shady ass shit to trick a huge amount of older voters.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=WhichStrider;51343984]Don't try to make it sound like this is what every democrat wanted. A lot of peeps here, including myself, wanted Bernie and were not in favor of Hilary. Stop throwing blame on what didn't happen and realize the reality of it is that Trump is here now, and he's already fucking shit up. We're all in this together.[/QUOTE]This is precisely what I'm talking about, where was the "revolution" the Bernie supporters were clamoring for? Why wasn't there tens of thousands of people rallying outside the DNC every fucking night? Knocking shit over? Demanding a "do-over" for lack of a better term? I saw more Hillary activism on the ground that Bernie, and when I did it was some retarded pothead that I could crush in an argument who had to reference a dollar store notebook to figure out what talking point to counter with. I did door knocking for Johnson, my county has [I]far more votes[/I] than it did last year for him. I went out and talked to people and did the hard work, I spoiled votes away from Trump and surprise Minnesota went soft Clinton. [B]You're welcome for doing your fucking jobs for you.[/B] [editline]9th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;51343989]okay what should an individual facepunch user have done at the DNC after Clinton already won the popular votes for Democratic nominee? I'm really interested in what exactly "if you had turned on Hillary and stopped her" entails.[/QUOTE][B]Doing the exact opposite of what's found in your posting history.[/B] People like you specifically are directly responsible for this, Raidyr. Enjoy your four years of Trump.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51343081]It's over. We're done. If this doesn't convince Trump supporters that voting this man in was a mistake I won't know what will.[/QUOTE] Good joke. People would defend their political hero if they burned down D.C.
[QUOTE=The Vman;51344282]What are you trying to suggest, like I really don't get it. The private sector's going to start building windfarms and nuclear reactors?[/QUOTE] That's exactly what I'm suggesting. [QUOTE=1legmidget;51344295][URL="https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf"]We currently subsidize the shit out of fossil fuels[/URL]. We spend billions (plural) on them every year, and have for a long ass time. If you want to try to level the market, you're going to have to go after oil subsidies too, and there are good arguments for diverting those funds into nuclear and other alternatives so that those industries can catch up.[/QUOTE] This is solid reasoning, and I agree with you on leveling the market. These subsidies were implemented in a world where oil was scarce for us. Now, we are about to overthrow the Saudis as one of the biggest oil producers in the world. I honestly think once that happens, American oil will be able to stand on its own without the subsidies. Solar/wind/etc. do not have this stability, even though the supply and our ability to produce it are in theory greater than oil. Private investment in technology saved American oil, and I bet you it will be the only thing that can save American green energy.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51344305]Climate change being a chinese conspiracy is sure going to hold up when the entire county of Seychelles is underwater and coastal cities have to be abandoned[/QUOTE] Naw, that's not that liberal "Global Warming" conspiracy - that's just God's angry wrath at VP Pence not acting quick and fast enough to send the icky gays to conversion therapy, or making gay marriage illegal. :hurr:
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51344307]I remember a lot of people telling me I was insane for pointing out how fucking corrupt she is and how awful she is, here and elsewhere. Then you insulted Bernie supporters for protesting outside the DNC and making fun of them, laughing at them for crying.[/quote] Most of the "corruption" evidence you used was most likely garbage tinfoil grade conspiracy theories and that's why everyone was laughing at you. There wasn't anything real or concrete to point out until after the primaries. [quote]You did not try hard enough. Enjoy your new president. This is precisely what I'm talking about, where was the "revolution" the Bernie supporters were clamoring for? Why wasn't there tens of thousands of people rallying outside the DNC every fucking night? Knocking shit over? Demanding a "do-over" for lack of a better term?[/quote] No one knew that the primaries were rigged except for Bernie Supporters who were upset about the system, and anyone who assumed that Clinton was a corrupt woman. AKA It was all speculation. If you complained about DNC corruption with absolutely no evidence then you'd look like a fool so there wasn't an actual reason to protest. If it was discovered a week after the primaries that for real everything was rigged, then there would be this "revolution" you speak of. The leaks came too late and no one is to blame for that.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51344307]I remember a lot of people telling me I was insane for pointing out how fucking corrupt she is and how awful she is, here and elsewhere. Then you insulted Bernie supporters for protesting outside the DNC and making fun of them, laughing at them for crying. You did not try hard enough. Enjoy your new president.[/QUOTE] The people who made fun of Bernie supporters protesting and crying at the DNC were Trump supporters [I]are you fucking kidding me[/I]. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51344307]This is precisely what I'm talking about, where was the "revolution" the Bernie supporters were clamoring for? Why wasn't there tens of thousands of people rallying outside the DNC every fucking night? Knocking shit over? Demanding a "do-over" for lack of a better term?[/QUOTE] When Sanders says we need a political revolution he means using the system of democracy to organize and choose representatives at a local, state, and federal level to further a progressive, socially responsible framework that supports the citizenry. He doesn't mean rioting in downtown Philly because he lost. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51344307][B]Doing the exact opposite of what's found in your posting hist[/B][B]ory.[/B] People like you specifically are directly responsible for this, Raidyr. Enjoy four years of Trump, I hope all those sick zingers were worth it.[/QUOTE] People like me, who changed his registration for Sanders during the primary, convinced other Democrats to vote for Sanders, supported Sanders up until he lost, tried to make the case that getting 90% from Clinton was better than losing 100% in Trump, then voting Clinton in the general are directly responsible for Trump winning. Not the people for voted for Trump out of a desire to rebel against the status quo, and whom now are going to experience more of the same from Trump. If my boring political posts upset you Jack that's one thing but I'm pretty sure I'm not responsible for other peoples stupid decisions. I'm a straight white male who's career is largely insulated from Trump's disastrous policy. As a perk my taxes are probably going to decrease and I don't have to worry about buying overpriced ammo. I'll enjoy four years of Trump. Shame the rest of the nation won't.
I called people out multiple times on alienating trump supporters rather then trying to change their views. This is the consequence of both sides spouting divisive shit
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51344307]\ This is precisely what I'm talking about, where was the "revolution" the Bernie supporters were clamoring for? Why wasn't there tens of thousands of people rallying outside the DNC every fucking night? Knocking shit over? Demanding a "do-over" for lack of a better term? I saw more Hillary activism on the ground that Bernie, and when I did it was some retarded pothead that I could crush in an argument who had to reference a dollar store notebook to figure out what talking point to counter with. I did door knocking for Johnson, my county has [I]far more votes[/I] than it did last year for him. I went out and talked to people and did the hard work, I spoiled votes away from Trump and surprise Minnesota went soft Clinton. [/QUOTE] Do you just always want to invoke riots/violence, or what? Nothing of the sort was going to happen, you have to be realistic with this shit. Yes, I supported Bernie, but to say it's suddenly our fault for Trump because we weren't knocking on DNC's door every night is ridiculous. Blame it on the DNC themselves, and trump votes, not people that were hoping for a change that didn't "do enough". Honestly man, I don't quite get why you're trying to be on such a high horse. All this blame pushing on the wrong people because their outcome didn't happen.
[QUOTE=hippowombat;51343080]God help us all.[/QUOTE] If he existed he would be laughing at you right now.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51344378]I called people out multiple times on alienating trump supporters rather then trying to change their views. This is the consequence of both sides spouting divisive shit[/QUOTE] Most trump supporters are beyond saving. Look what happened with Billy Mays. An entire battalion of shitposters kindly convinced him that Trump is shit and actually agreed with them. He voted for Trump anyways.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51344326]That's exactly what I'm suggesting. This is solid reasoning, and I agree with you on leveling the market. These subsidies were implemented in a world where oil was scarce for us. Now, we are about to overthrow the Saudis as one of the biggest oil producers in the world. I honestly think once that happens, American oil will be able to stand on its own without the subsidies.[/QUOTE] I have a hard time trusting that Trump's administration will do that, but I can appreciate you being consistent here. We know Trump is appointing an Exxon lobbyist (McKenna) as his DoE duder. We also know Trump wants to expand oil pipelines and wanted to subsidize corn ethanol. I doubt he's going to go after these subsidies considering his financial and personal ties. Personally I'm not all that opposed to subsidizing energy research and infrastructure. Often times these investments pay off in weird ways. DoE research on biofuels is largely responsible for DNA sequencing techniques that really kicked off the Human Genome project for example. The other things I wish people would talk about more is how to hold coal plants responsible for their environmental and public health damages. We know that polluters screw people over, and that from a legal perspective it's hard to pin the damages on them. Taxes and fines make sense to me, but plenty of free-market types seem to hold the opinion that those sorts of penalties aren't conducive to a truly free-market and are resistant to them. Both McKenna and Ebell are opposed to carbon taxes on fossil fuels, and McKenna is seemingly against the EPA regulations that targeted super polluting centers based on their heavy metal emissions, so I don't imagine we'll get much accountability here either.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51344378]I called people out multiple times on alienating trump supporters rather then trying to change their views. This is the consequence of both sides spouting divisive shit[/QUOTE] I don't feel like I ever treated any of the usual Trump supporters any worse than they treated me. I welcome anyone to PM me evidence to the contrary. Most of my posts dealt with hard policy. I pretty much never participated in any of the sex scandal shit.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51344391]Most trump supporters are beyond saving. Look what happened with Billy Mays. An entire battalion of shitposters kindly convinced him that Trump is shit and actually agreed with them. He voted for Trump anyways.[/QUOTE] This is the childish mindset that let trump win.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51344307][B]Doing the exact opposite of what's found in your posting history.[/B] People like you specifically are directly responsible for this, Raidyr. Enjoy your four years of Trump.[/QUOTE] The people who voted for Trump are the only ones responsible for Trump. They aren't children, they can bear the weight of their own choices.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51343224]I do believe a certain user is going to very heavily regret their choices in the years to come...[/QUOTE] Said user was actually told this and still considered hillary the greater evil
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51344391]Most trump supporters are beyond saving. Look what happened with Billy Mays. An entire battalion of shitposters kindly convinced him that Trump is shit and actually agreed with them. He voted for Trump anyways.[/QUOTE] That's both wrong and right. There are some actual racists, sexists, etc. in Trump's ranks but most really aren't that. They were just offered more neoliberalism in Clinton which has been letting them down for decades. Clinton won the popular vote, but lost key states against a candidate whose campaign did almost literally everything wrong for that very reason. The idea of "just wait a bit more, don't rock the boat, vote Clinton" was unpalatable for them, just like Trump was unpalatable for most LGBT people. I still disagree with their conclusions but ~beyond saving~ is a terrible way to describe it. The democratic and republican parties absolutely created the conditions for this to happen.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51344391]Most trump supporters are beyond saving. Look what happened with Billy Mays. An entire battalion of shitposters kindly convinced him that Trump is shit and actually agreed with them. He voted for Trump anyways.[/QUOTE] Then you've got Pvt. Martin. Someone who's mental fortitude is so fucking soft that when confused about candidates this election, went to RBM for information on Trump expecting it to be unbiased (strike one). Was given links to the Trump campaign website, /r/the_donald and his Twitter feed as a response to this requests and ate it up as if it was actually unbiased (strike two). And then quintupled down so fucking hard that when Sanders pushed for his supporters to vote for Clinton because [I]he knew she'd actually be a safe bet[/I] came up with this strange fucking phrase future linguistics professors will be baffled by for centuries claiming Sanders was in a "cuck shed" or whatever the fuck (strike three). A vast fucking majority of Trump supporters on this forum were so entrenched in their views that "DADDDYYY!!!" would save them from whatever mythological creature they feared that even after a solid year of various members here carefully, calmly and consistently pointing out flaws in the man and his plan they didn't budge. They would just vanish without a trace when you actually levied anything remotely good as a point or resort to shitposting (there's a reason most of them are banned now).
[QUOTE=hexpunK;51344485]Then you've got Pvt. Martin. Someone who's mental fortitude is so fucking soft that when confused about candidates this election, went to RBM for information on Trump expecting it to be unbiased (strike one). Was given links to the Trump campaign website, /r/the_donald and his Twitter feed as a response to this requests and ate it up as if it was actually unbiased (strike two). And then quintupled down so fucking hard that when Sanders pushed for his supporters to vote for Clinton because [I]he knew she'd actually be a safe bet[/I] came up with this strange fucking phrase future linguistics professors will be baffled by for centuries claiming Sanders was in a "cuck shed" or whatever the fuck (strike three). A vast fucking majority of Trump supporters on this forum were so entrenched in their views that "DADDDYYY!!!" would save them from whatever mythological creature they feared that even after a solid year of various members here carefully, calmly and consistently pointing out flaws in the man and his plan they didn't budge. They would just vanish without a trace when you actually levied anything remotely good as a point or resort to shitposting (there's a reason most of them are banned now).[/QUOTE] I almost regret that eulogy I made for him in DAAS.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51344434]This is the childish mindset that let trump win.[/QUOTE] Ok so how do you expect me, a complete stranger and a Canadian, to convince online Trump supporters who - Chant "LOCK HER UP" while ignoring the fact that Clinton hasn't been convicted of a crime - Believe that Breitbart and infowars is a reliable news source. - Purchase Trump Merchandise and proudly display it wherever they go. - Believe that Clinton has suspicious damning emails - Believe that Clinton killed soldiers in Benghazi when this has been proven over and over again that this isn't the case. - Believe that Clinton is the devil. I've tried convincing Trump supporters that Trump isn't the answer to their problems. They don't care to what I say, even if I do it as neutral as possible. I got banned from r/the_donald for posting a politifact link and nothing else to a news article that makes a bogus statement. I've been called a Jew, a shill, a communist for saying that Trump isn't the answer. Worst of all, the thing I've heard most is: "But Clinton..." "But Clinton" is the response I receive the most. I can't argue with people that say "But Clinton" because that means they ignored what I said and believe that Clinton is worse than Trump, so they must vote Trump. "But Clinton..." is my kryptonite because it's impossible to argue with anyone who says "But Clinton..." to any criticism of Trump and his "policies" because they don't want to have a proper argument. [editline]3[/editline] If you think that Liberals like me who say that Trump is terrible and anyone who supports Trump is terrible is the reason why Trump won, then it's obvious that you haven't been following this election.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51344365]Most of the "corruption" evidence you used was most likely garbage tinfoil grade conspiracy theories and that's why everyone was laughing at you. There wasn't anything real or concrete to point out until after the primaries.[/QUOTE]Uh? I remember specifically saying, "I can't prove it," precisely I had no evidence. I do also remember saying that because people keep saying "hurr repelblicens CONSPIRAZY TIN FOIL!!!!!!111" and laughing it up made Clinton and the Democrats in general [U][I]look[/I] absolutely awful.[/U] [QUOTE]No one knew that the primaries were rigged except for Bernie Supporters who were upset about the system, and anyone who assumed that Clinton was a corrupt woman. AKA It was all speculation. If you complained about DNC corruption with absolutely no evidence then you'd look like a fool so there wasn't an actual reason to protest.[/QUOTE]That's funny because I remember the DNC thread full of people pointing out Bernie supporters were pissed, Hillary goons taking phones and being dicks in the crowd, and then people chanting before being forcibly silenced. Seems like it was completely fucking obvious from the get-go, but you kool-aid drinkers who stopped just short of an actual Jonestown apparently had chronic losses of consciousness because it was a [I]constant[/I] onslaught of shady shit. Let me reiterate that since I know it's hard to read: [B]Hillary Clinton lost this election because she looked shady, because Donald motherfucking Trump seemed slightly less of a slimy crook than she did.[/B] [QUOTE=Kyle902;51344378]I called people out multiple times on alienating trump supporters rather then trying to change their views. This is the consequence of both sides spouting divisive shit[/QUOTE]I know you did, I commend you for that. Unfortunately a lot of your peers thought it was more important to get sick zingers and to browbeat everyone else. I'm not giving the Republicans a pass, they are [I]infamous[/I] for the behaviors demonstrated by Hillarites in this election. That hasn't completely changed, but there have been slightly more people on that side being kind to us Johnson supporters than last time around. Maybe that's the Bernie folks in their new GOP robes, I don't know, but I can tell you it was definitely a shock. [QUOTE=WhichStrider;51344382]Do you just always want to invoke riots/violence, or what? Nothing of the sort was going to happen, you have to be realistic with this shit.[/QUOTE][I]Read.[/I] Goddamn dude, you even quoted the part you were supposed to read. Go do it again before continuing with this post. Don't worm your way out of blame here, unless you hit the streets to talk to people and you went above and beyond to get shit done while doing what Kyle902 did and calling people out for being shitheads then you share some of it. You know why Johnson got anywhere this election? That measly four percent? Us. Supporters on the ground doing his campaigning for him which frankly pisses me off, but that's another argument for another thread. Don't give me that shit that you couldn't have done more, it was all ancap jackasses and idealistic weirdos like myself convincing people. Sure we didn't have the numbers to hit the streets in force but we were out there and honestly if you had done the same thing and showed up in a massive fucking crowd chanting non-stop 24/7 for days, I think you would have gotten somewhere. Riots would have been an option too, probably not a good option, but sure you guys could have done that too if you really, really wanted. This isn't speaking from my stubby little pony here, I'm telling you where you people failed and why from an outside perspective; maybe you should pay attention and take it in. [editline]9th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51344443]The people who voted for Trump are the only ones responsible for Trump. They aren't children, they can bear the weight of their own choices.[/QUOTE]They made it, fine, but pretending like you have had nothing to do with it is stupid. You did. Even I had something to do with it, simply by existing I represent an alternative to blindly accepting the circumstances. I accept that, I'm willing to shoulder that blame. I'll even demonstrate the maturity you seem to value by saying, yes, as a third party voter I have likely influenced potential Hillary voters to find a pasture they think is greener. I am partially responsible for Donald Trump getting elected.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.