Nelson Mandela is dead.

[thisispain]

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;43082799]Guy is responsible for mass-bombing of civilians who weren't even in relation to the apartheid government. In his rule, South Africa has become a slaughterhouse and feel-good rape house and disease central in Afirca, massive unemployment and starvation through out the country, and yeah.
Sucks the guy died, but realistically speaking his accomplishments with removing the Apartheid Government have only caused a lot more civil strife and bad shit going on in South Africa. Not even to mention he still was responsible for signing off on the bombings of Churches and Schools across South Africa in the Early 80's.[/QUOTE]

you're seriously going to ignore the fact that south africa was in a civil war previous to the overthrow of the apartheid government???

and no South Africa became a lot better after the apartheid government with a liberal constitution and industralisation, and you can't credit Nelson Mandela for something a huge amount of the population was fighting against

your post is ridiculous a-historical nonsense i dont believe for a second you actually looked into it on your own but ok

[fruxodaily]

Words cannot describe what a great man he was

[Scrappa]

My partner's family sold their farm and emigrated to the UK in 2010 after they were almost killed by a group of men with guns and machetes who attacked them simply for being Afrikaner. The government dissolved the only protection Afrikaner living in rural areas had (the commandos) in 2008 and since then racial attacks against Afrikaner in the rural areas has increased massively. The only protection farmers have now is their own guns and the illegal volunteer groups of people who used to be in the commandos.

The situation in South Africa has swapped, now it is the Afrikaner who are racially attacked and are simply being driven out of the country.

[Marik Bentusi]

Look, guys, maybe you're very right about the terrible stuff in Mandela's life, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate to bring it up while other people are sad or mourning.

You don't sincerely mention how much someone was a huge dick at their funeral, and while this thread isn't anywhere near the level of intimacy, the same principle applies. If you want to have an honest debate about the guy and question his public image, do it after the emotional state has calmed down. There's a time and a place for everything, and right here and now you're not coming across as educational and knowledgeable, you're coming across as a disrespectful smartass who is ignorant of the situation.

It doesn't always matter if you're right or if something isn't rational. Emotions are an important part of being human. So even if you don't respect the guy himself, at least respect the people that do.

I thought this was common sense.

[thisispain]

the afrikaners shouldn't have been there in the first place. the only reason they are there is because of the intensely stupid way foreign governments have dealt with that nation.

dont forget the fact that the UK fought a war with Afrikaner boeren anyway, putting people in concentration camps.

now of course you can say "then what the heck are afrikaners supposed to do?" but the situation was utterly unstable in the apartheid government. how long could they have suppressed and tortured the majority black population before it exploded in an ever worse civil war?

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;43084283]Look, guys, maybe you're very right about the terrible stuff in Mandela's life, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate to bring it up while other people are sad or mourning.

You don't sincerely mention how much someone was a huge dick at their funeral, and while this thread isn't anywhere near the level of intimacy, the same principle applies. If you want to have an honest debate about the guy and question his public image, do it after the emotional state has calmed down. There's a time and a place for everything, and right here and now you're not coming across as educational and knowledgeable, you're coming across as a disrespectful smartass who is ignorant of the situation.

It doesn't always matter if you're right or if something isn't rational. Emotions are an important part of being human. So even if you don't respect the guy himself, at least respect the people that do.

I thought this was common sense.[/QUOTE]

eh? you're on a internet forum dude

[Paul McCartney]

He was literally a terrorist who blew up buses, killed people, and deserved the prison sentence he was given.

[Red Toaster]

[QUOTE=thisispain;43084292]the afrikaners shouldn't have been there in the first place.

[/QUOTE]

Fuck you, you racist bigot. How dare you imply an [i]entire ethnic group[/i], let a lone a people that has been there for [i]hundreds of years[/i] should be EXPULSED from a nation. The fact that someone could even say something so shockingly insensitive is completely stunning. Fuck you.

[Scrappa]

[QUOTE=thisispain;43084292]the afrikaners shouldn't have been there in the first place. the only reason they are there is because of the intensely stupid way foreign governments have dealt with that nation.

dont forget the fact that the UK fought a war with Afrikaner boeren anyway, putting people in concentration camps.

now of course you can say "then what the heck are afrikaners supposed to do?" but the situation was utterly unstable in the apartheid government. how long could they have suppressed and tortured the majority black population before it exploded in an ever worse civil war?
[/QUOTE]

The Afrikaner shouldn't have been there? It's not their fault that their ancestors set up an outpost there over 300 years ago.

If black people were being actively driven out of England due to racist attacks and you posted about someone close to you who was driven out of England and emigrated to the US because of these attacks and my reply to that was "they shouldn't have been there in the first place" the response would be absolute outrage and I would be called the biggest racist on the planet so why is it okay for you to say the same about white people who settled in a continent they're not native to?

Also, I fail to see any relevance between this and the Boer wars?

[b]Edit:[/b]

[QUOTE=Red Toaster;43084371]Fuck you, you racist bigot. How dare you imply an [i]entire ethnic group[/i], let a lone a people that has been there for [i]hundreds of years[/i] should be EXPULSED from a nation. The fact that someone could even say something so shockingly insensitive is completely stunning. Fuck you.[/QUOTE]

This.

[Aman]

[QUOTE=thisispain;43084046]
and no South Africa became a lot better after the apartheid government with a liberal constitution and industralisation,

[/QUOTE]

Yeah man South Africa is doing fucking great. Not like they fell face first into the ground in the past 2 decades after decades of progress. And it's not like this wasn't the direct result of the absolute incompetence of the new government(s) and sometimes downright malicious and racist actions of them. Same sort of idea with Rhodesia except there it was a lot worse.

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=Red Toaster;43084371]Fuck you, you racist bigot. How dare you imply an [I]entire ethnic group[/I], let a lone a people that has been there for [I]hundreds of years[/I] should be EXPULSED from a nation. The fact that someone could even say something so shockingly insensitive is completely stunning. Fuck you.[/QUOTE]

White people can't be the victims of racism, duh

[thisispain]

[QUOTE=Scrappa;43084390]The Afrikaner shouldn't have been there? It's not their fault that their ancestors set up an outpost there over 300 years ago.

If black people were being actively driven out of England due to racist attacks and you posted about someone close to you who was driven out of England and emigrated to the US because of these attacks and my reply to that was "they shouldn't have been there in the first place" the response would be absolute outrage and I would be called the biggest racist on the planet so why is it okay for you to say the same about white people who settled in a continent they're not native to?

Also, I fail to see any relevance between this and the Boer wars?[/QUOTE]

you misunderstood and ignored the rest of my post. Afrikaner apartheid simply could not have continued. it would have been impossible for people who were always in the minority and exist by foreign intervention to continue repressing the majority without an outburst of extreme violence. the post-apartheid government in historical terms is actually quite a success considering Afrikaners still got a say in a liberal democracy, instead of the violent dictatorships that exists in other African nations poisoned by foreign intervention.

im sympathetic to anyone's plight dont really care about who's gonna be called a racist as you apparently do, but white supremacy which was undoubtedly the modus operandi of the apartheid government cannot be defended on any terms and to call the present south african situation black supremacist is inaccurate because the majority of wealth and power is still owned by white Afrikaners.

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=Aman;43084420]Yeah man South Africa is doing fucking great. [/QUOTE]

you obviously dont care about anything i have to say so why even bother posting lmao

[verynicelady]

Mandela did take part in an armed struggle as a member of the ANC when he was a young man. After 27 years in prison he came out a changed man. He was a shining beacon of forgiveness and reconciliation because he had realised this is the way forward. Hatred is destructive of individuals and of nations

[Red Toaster]

[QUOTE=thisispain;43084469]you misunderstood and ignored the rest of my post. Afrikaner apartheid simply could not have continued. it would have been impossible for people who were always in the minority and exist by foreign intervention to continue repressing the majority without an outburst of extreme violence. the post-apartheid government in historical terms is actually quite a success considering Afrikaners still got a say in a liberal democracy, instead of the violent dictatorships that exists in other African nations poisoned by foreign intervention.

im sympathetic to anyone's plight dont really care about who's gonna be called a racist as you apparently do, but white supremacy which was undoubtedly the modus operandi of the apartheid government cannot be defended on any terms and to call the present south african situation black supremacist is inaccurate because the majority of wealth and power is still owned by white Afrikaners.

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

you obviously dont care about anything i have to say so why even bother posting lmao[/QUOTE]

How privileged the Afrikaners are; to be attacked, brutally mutilated or raped in their own homes and on their own farms.

[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling" - verynicelady))[/highlight]

[thisispain]

[QUOTE=Red Toaster;43084501]How privileged the Afrikaners are; to be attacked, brutally mutilated or raped in their own homes and on their own farms.[/QUOTE]

being attacked, brutally mutilated, and raped happens to black south africans a lot too......

[Zoran]

[QUOTE=verynicelady;43084493]Mandela did take part in an armed struggle as a member of the ANC when he was a young man. After 27 years in prison he came out a changed man. He was a shining beacon of forgiveness and reconciliation because he had realised this is the way forward. Hatred is destructive of individuals and of nations[/QUOTE]

I don't know much about Nelson Mandela's involvement in the struggle, but I can believe this the most. Outright calling him a terrorist is just plain wrong. Sure, people are overrating him, nobody is perfect, but saying all this shit is a bit unnecessary while people are grieving.

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

For clarification, by, "outright calling him a terrorist," I'm referring to the fact certain people have been acting like he was nothing but bad

[verynicelady]

All the people white, black, brown whatever are South Africans. One ethnic group behaved badly in the past. Mr Mandela managed to change this using skills as a politician and his ability to be a good example. This is why he is now revered and thought of as a great man by many of us.

[thisispain]

people are giving him awards and praise because unlike other african nations under their current governments, South Africa is actually capable of growing into a modern state with improved conditions for both white and black africans.

of course the fact that nelson mandela is differential to UK warcrimes in South Africa also helps.

[OFLC]

I found this.
[QUOTE][B]The terrorist Nelson Mandela is dead – may he rot in hell[/B]
[IMG]http://www.destroyzionism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/winnie_mandela_slovo.jpg[/IMG]
[B]Winnia Mandela, Nelson Mandela and the Communist Jew Joe Slove[/B]

The Negro terrorist Nelson Mandela is finally dead. Here’s a video from his activist years, singing with his Jewish friend Ronnie Kasrils about murdering white people:
[video=youtube;NKiePbTcAfY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKiePbTcAfY[/video]
A few articles of interest:

[URL="http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/06/nelson-mandela-and-the-jews/"]Nelson Mandela & the Jews[/URL]

[URL="http://traitor666.blogspot.co.uk/2006/06/nelson-mandela-and-rainbow-nation.html"]The Rainbow Nation[/URL]

[URL="http://censorbugbear-reports.blogspot.nl/2010/07/nelson-mandela-bombing-record.html"]The bombing record[/URL]

[URL="http://www.amren.com/features/2013/12/mandela-white-genocide-with-a-whimper/#.UqD-6M0Yaz4.twitter"]White genocide with a whimper[/URL]

[URL="http://www.destroyzionism.com/2013/11/27/already-knew-jews-destroyed-south-africa/"]What we already know: Jews destroyed South Africa[/URL]

[URL="http://www.destroyzionism.com/2013/06/26/the-negro-terrorist-nelson-mandela-is-dying/"]The Negro terrorist Nelson Mandela is dying[/URL]

[URL="http://www.destroyzionism.com/2013/07/14/the-boer-war/"]
The Boer war[/URL]
[IMG]http://www.destroyzionism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/mandela-quality.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.destroyzionism.com/2013/12/05/terrorist-nelson-mandela-dead-may-rot-hell/[/url]

[Aman]

[QUOTE=thisispain;43084618]people are giving him awards and praise because unlike other african nations under their current governments, South Africa is actually capable of growing into a modern state with improved conditions for both white and black africans.

of course the fact that nelson mandela is differential to UK warcrimes in South Africa also helps.[/QUOTE]

Capable?

Seems like a real low bar to set. I'm pretty sure every country, even shit tier Zimbabwae is "capable" of something.

Actual fact and statistics wise South Africa has gone down the shitter and White-black income disparity has grown significantly while pre Mandela it was continuing to decline.

[thisispain]

"What we already know: Jews destroyed South Africa"

of course, it was my fault

sorry guys :(

[Aman]

[QUOTE=OFLC;43084632]I found this.

[url]http://www.destroyzionism.com/2013/12/05/terrorist-nelson-mandela-dead-may-rot-hell/[/url][/QUOTE]

great source material...

[OFLC]

I now I dont support this website guys
Edit:
this website I meant:
[URL="http://www.destroyzionism.com/"]http://www.destroyzionism.com/[/URL]

[thisispain]

[QUOTE=Aman;43084633]Seems like a real low bar to set. I'm pretty sure every country, even shit tier Zimbabwae is "capable".[/QUOTE]

yeah good luck with that buddy.

[QUOTE=Aman;43084633]Actual fact and statistics wise South Africa has gone down the shitter and White-black income disparity has grown significantly while pre Mandela it was continuing to decline.[/QUOTE]

[img]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47872000/gif/_47872999_wealth_inequality466x220.gif[/img]

you dont know what you are talking about, at all

[Aman]

[QUOTE=thisispain;43084659]yeah good luck with that buddy.

[img]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47872000/gif/_47872999_wealth_inequality466x220.gif[/img]

you dont know what you are talking about, at all[/QUOTE]

Give me a minute to find my citation

[thisispain]

what citation????
its overwhelming clear you don't see it that white families are better off on average in the post-apartheid government.

if you think Nelson Mandela is a failure then OK, think so. I just hope you have a good reason to think that. I don't think the problems white afrikaners face is a good reason because under Nelson Mandela white afrikaners got a far better deal than they would have if oppression of black africans continued until it burst into genocidal fervour which is what happened in other african nations.

[Aman]

I think the internet may have duped me, I apologize. Don't believe everything you read.

And if it actually hasn't I can't scour through a 61 page economic paper to find the key point I'm looking for with a headache.

Feel free to read, seems like an interesting paper I'm only part way through.

[URL]http://www.nber.org/papers/w11384.pdf?new_window=1[/URL]

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

Although wait...why does the graph say African [I]American[/I] families?

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

Wait what the fuck that graph isn't even for South Africa it's for the US.

I may be (not be now?) stupid but you are too what the fuck don't you inspect the graph before you post it and act smug?

I think it is glaringly obvious now you just googled some buzzwords and immediately pulled the first graph you saw.

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

and now you don't reply. "lmao" indeed.

[OFLC]

[QUOTE=Teddybeer;43084736]You can do better than that.
[video=youtube;cHLTKZ05zM4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHLTKZ05zM4[/video]

On the other side.....

[video=youtube;-UpzR8CCocM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UpzR8CCocM[/video][/QUOTE]
Would I?
[video=youtube;JnuwXgtHDsc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnuwXgtHDsc[/video]

[ThePanther]

"Let all my people of South Africa be free! Let all of them be free!" - Nelson Mandela

[thisispain]

[QUOTE=Aman;43084756]I think the internet may have duped me, I apologize. Don't believe everything you read.

And if it actually hasn't I can't scour through a 61 page economic paper to find the key point I'm looking for with a headache.

Feel free to read, seems like an interesting paper I'm only part way through.

[URL]http://www.nber.org/papers/w11384.pdf?new_window=1[/URL]

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

Although wait...why does the graph say African [I]American[/I] families?

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

Wait what the fuck that graph isn't even for South Africa it's for the US.

I may be (not be now?) stupid but you are too what the fuck don't you inspect the graph before you post it and act smug?

I think it is glaringly obvious now you just googled some buzzwords and immediately pulled the first graph you saw.

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

and now you don't reply. "lmao" indeed.[/QUOTE]

hehe *embarassed* my bad

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-30/south-africa-s-racial-income-inequality-persists-census-shows.html[/url]

but the only problem with that graph is that it wasn't strong enough so...

"While incomes for black households increased an average 169 percent over 10 years, their annual earnings are 60,613 rand ($6,987), or a sixth of that for whites, Statistics South Africa said in a report released in Cape Town today. About 80 percent of South Africa’s 51.8 million population is black."

[editline]5th December 2013[/editline]

in my defense, its the BBC article i got that graph from that made the mistake not me

[Kai-ryuu]

yo usually i'm all for making shit posts in SH but can you people seriously show some fucking respect. Nelson Mandela, despite what he did when he was young, was one of the greatest champions of human rights and equality and doesn't deserve to have you shitheads making a mockery of it.

[Aman]

[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;43085133]yo usually i'm all for making shit posts in SH but can you people seriously show some fucking respect. Nelson Mandela, despite what he did when he was young, was one of the greatest champions of human rights and equality and doesn't deserve to have you shitheads making a mockery of it.[/QUOTE]

it's the internet get used to it and get over it.