Boston Bomber Dzhokar Tsarnaev ought to be declared an "enemy combatant" because "My God, they were
107 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;40368012]I'm pretty sure they can't do this, and there isn't a way to swing it to make it legal anyway. In order to be declared an enemy combatant, he'd have to be a "legal" combatant; which he isn't.
[editline]21st April 2013[/editline]
The ACLU doesn't get much of a say in the matter. If congress did indeed deem him a combatant, then he'd be treated as such. While the case worked its way through the courts over the course of 10-15 years, he'd still be treated like an enemy combatant.[/QUOTE]
No, he's an American citizen it simply isn't legal. Even the NDAA wouldn't authorize this. The ACLU pointed this out, they know what they are talking about.
This shouldn't even be a federal case it seems to me. The way it currently looks as that the younger brother was doing the crime to assist his older brother who was the one entrenched in extremist beliefs. This should be a murder trial instead.
Anyways we really shouldn't be using the death penalty at all. We're one of the last countries in the world to have many executions each year. I don't get why so many people still support it.
[quote]Federal officials called in the interagency High Value Detainee Interrogation Group, which includes investigators from the F[B]BI and CIA who specialize in collecting intelligence from terrorism suspects[/B], to question Tsarnaev.
[/quote]
what a nice way of describing a torture expert
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;40368471]But we're dealing with congress here. The very people who COULD authorize it. Rally up enough emotion and they'd come up with some "strip terrorists of citizenship" bill or something to that effect. The reason to worry is BECAUSE its a senator, the very people who make the laws.[/QUOTE]
You are way behind, that has already been in the works for years, dude. Since the times square bombing in 2010
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_Expatriation_Act"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_Expatriation_Act[/URL]
In this specific case they can't strip him of his citizenship. There is no legal precedent for it, and he is being charged today.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;40367038]1) Enemy Combatant is not correct because he has no true allegiance to a country (or maybe even an organization)
2) Wasn't he unconcious after climbing out of the boat? All of the pictures I've seen have a bag valve mask over him.[/QUOTE]
The one photo I have seen (and I assume its the only one out there so the only one anyone else has seen) shows him pretty unconscious. Anyway from the press conference I gathered that they hadn't given him the Miranda warning during the arrest because you know, its pointless to warn someone who is clearly unconscious.
[editline]21st April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Occlusion;40367064]When does murder become terrorism? Out of interest.[/QUOTE]
When its done for a purpose I [I]think[/I], like if you were just pissed off and you blew up a marathon that isn't really terrorism (in my eyes) but if you do it because (for example) you hate America then IMO that is terrorism.
[editline]21st April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40367556]Attitudes like that breed more terrorists.
It's a vicious cycle.[/QUOTE]
No, attitudes like his allow people to get on with their lives without being constantly worried. I hate to always use the same example, but look at London after the 7/7 bombing. People just got on with their lives, being slightly inconvenienced by things being closed. Compare that to America where 10+ years on after a terrorist attack they are still terrified by what is pretty much an invisible enemy.
[editline]21st April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Truckasaurus1;40367621]No the terrorists didn't "win".
Al-Qaeda wanted America to stop funding Israel and to get troops out of the middle east. Now they are all dead or dying and oh well I guess U.S. involvement in the Mid. East has increased or something maybe. We don't know what these people's goal was. I seriously doubt it was "hey brother, we are going to make them afraid!"[/QUOTE]
I thought their main goal was to get US troops out of Saudi Arabia, due to it being a holy land and all that. Did they expand beyond that? That aside, one of their main goals was / is scaring the utterly living shit out their "enemy" (ie the West). This is clear by both the propaganda they have released over the years and their attacks, true Al Qaeda attacks have always been big and bold and frankly quite terrifying.
[QUOTE=areolop;40367290]BVM's are common. They always use them if you're breathing under ~21 bpm.[/QUOTE]
the average adult male respiration rate is between 12-24.
They don't use a BVM because you're breathing in a normal range, BVMs are not comfortable, and can freak a patient out if they're alert but not in a clear mind (shoving a plastic mask on someone, holding it down, and pushing air into them isn't pleasant, its almost invasive as you can get without intubating)
He was intubated from the looks of this picture, than they used a BVM hooked on to the intubation tube.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/EkvUokw.jpg[/url] So yeah, he got pretty fucked up for them to have to intubate him, which probably explains why they didn't read him his rights when they got him in custody. I think they should treat this guy as a criminal, and read him his rights when hes awake, and alert at the hospital. Does anyone have any news on his condition at the hospital anyways?
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;40369181]the average adult male respiration rate is between 12-24.
They don't use a BVM because you're breathing in a normal range, BVMs are not comfortable, and can freak a patient out if they're alert but not in a clear mind (shoving a plastic mask on someone, holding it down, and pushing air into them isn't pleasant, its almost invasive as you can get without intubating)
He was intubated from the looks of this picture, than they used a BVM hooked on to the intubation tube.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/EkvUokw.jpg[/url] So yeah, he got pretty fucked up for them to have to intubate him, which probably explains why they didn't read him his rights when they got him in custody. I think they should treat this guy as a criminal, and read him his rights when hes awake, and alert at the hospital. Does anyone have any news on his condition at the hospital anyways?[/QUOTE]
Is he intubated in that photo? I know it isn't clear but to me it just looks like an oxygen mask.
[QUOTE=Jsm;40369229]Is he intubated in that photo? I know it isn't clear but to me it just looks like an oxygen mask.[/QUOTE]
looks like they were sticking this down his throat according to reddit
[url]http://www.kingsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/KingLTS-D-460x231.jpg[/url]
[QUOTE=MadPro119;40368134]Does anyone have a source stating the curfew in boston wasn't mandatory but instead a suggestion? I am trying to prove one of those crazies wrong on facebook.
"POLICE STATE WARRANTLESS SEARCHES CURFEW OMG OMG"[/QUOTE]
The city was under martial law, if I remember, so naturally they shouldn't need a warrant. But something that's going on that I don't like is the almost forced dichotomy between the views on the Boston bombing. Those taking it at face value are sane, sound-minded and moving on to what it might mean in the long run. Those skeptical are immediately conspiracy nutjobs who believe in the illuminati. There's nothing wrong with distrusting your government. In fact, it's a sign of good health for the people. Blowing it out of proportion with outrageous, unsupported claims is a completely different story. The point isn't that the city-wide raid was legal (which it technically was), or the number of raids or whatever. The point is that it [i]happened[/i], and that they met almost no resistance. All for a 19 year old kid 'terrorist' (I fucking hate that word). And yeah, he was dangerous and needed to be stopped, but look at the scale. Personally, I think it was overdrawn.
Anyway, if this is for one kid, what's going to happen in a situation which has been scaled up? I think that's the point people are trying to make, at least.
This is what awaits him if they declare him an enemy:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCUzHnVeI10[/media]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;40367088]One of the ways that was successful with dealing with the IRA, is to simply treat them like criminals, arsonists and murderers.[/QUOTE]
Thats a fantastic point. The paramilitary wings of the IRA were never given the politic status they so desperately craved.
sure call him a combatant, but they better be willing to call the sandy hook shooter and the aurora shooter combatants too
[QUOTE=Truckasaurus1;40367650]That's quite a dumb goal of course he's going to get people's attention if he did anything at all.[/QUOTE]
al Qaeda bombed the World Trade Center in 1993 and no one cared.
So just short of a decade later, they flew two planes in.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;40370408]This is what awaits him if they declare him an enemy:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCUzHnVeI10[/media][/QUOTE]
that's just fucking sickening
hard to tell if the terrorists at guantanamo are the ones wearing the orange or the green
[QUOTE=areolop;40367290]BVM's are common. They always use them if you're breathing under ~21 bpm.[/QUOTE]
what
normal adult breathing is 12`-20 bpms dude
[QUOTE=The golden;40372254]Both.
[editline]22nd April 2013[/editline]
Remind me again how the US is allowed to operate a torture facility?[/QUOTE]
Because money?
[QUOTE=The golden;40372254]Both.
[editline]22nd April 2013[/editline]
Remind me again how the US is allowed to operate a torture facility?[/QUOTE]
because the US government is full of terrorists
[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;40372181]what
normal adult breathing is 12`-20 bpms dude[/QUOTE]
Maybe he just works in an area where the EMS protocols are all fucked up.
or maybe hes a cop who needs to refresh on his first aid skills and basic A&P.
[editline]22nd April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=The golden;40372254]Both.
[editline]22nd April 2013[/editline]
Remind me again how the US is allowed to operate a torture facility?[/QUOTE]
Outside of Unite states border, so the constitution doesn't apply apparently.
[QUOTE=The golden;40372411]If any other western nation tried to open a facility like that the entire world would come down them like a hammer-blow to the balls.
Yet for some reason the US is allowed to have one and everything is A-OK.[/QUOTE]
Well realistically there are alot of places like gitmo out there, its just that most of those places dont have such a comprehensive freedom of information act. Gitmo is just one thats in the public view and treated as a prison.
[QUOTE=The golden;40372411]If any other western nation tried to open a facility like that the entire world would come down them like a hammer-blow to the balls.
Yet for some reason the US is allowed to have one and everything is A-OK.[/QUOTE]
A lot of countries do it.....
(please, don't make me make a list)
[editline]22nd April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;40372430]Well realistically there are alot of places like gitmo out there, its just that most of those places dont have such a comprehensive freedom of information act. Gitmo is just one thats in the public view and treated as a prison.[/QUOTE]
just the other places, just say fuck off, and are liable to throw you in there if you ask questions about it.
At least we're trying to make progress in closing it, and are having open debate about it.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;40372508]It's outside of the border, and they aren't citizens, the double whammy makes it "legal" in the eyes of the government.
Almost every country has a facility like this; its just nowhere near as publicized.[/QUOTE]
Even England? France? Norway?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;40372508]It's outside of the border, and they aren't citizens, the double whammy makes it "legal" in the eyes of the government.
Almost every country has a facility like this; its just nowhere near as publicized.[/QUOTE]
Militaristic nations, perhaps.
If you can find evidence that Canada runs one of these torture camps somewhere, I'll immediately admit defeat.
[QUOTE=The golden;40372254]
Remind me again how the US is allowed to operate a torture facility?[/QUOTE]
maybe they reclassified it as a theme park
[QUOTE=Last or First;40367074]"He was at war with us! This war started when he attacked us and ended when we caught him. That was [I]totally[/I] a war! Saying that we were at war with two people just so we can circumvent the rule of law [I]totally[/I] isn't insane and blatantly wrong, nope nope nope!"
What, are we going to start labeling drug users as enemy combatants too? They [I]are[/I] part of the war on drugs, after all! :downs:[/QUOTE]
"What are you in for?"
"I was at war with America, alone against everyone, apparently."
Oh, he's gonna fit in just fine...
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;40368012]I'm pretty sure they can't do this, and there isn't a way to swing it to make it legal anyway. In order to be declared an enemy combatant, he'd have to be a "legal" combatant; which he isn't.
[editline]21st April 2013[/editline]
The ACLU doesn't get much of a say in the matter. If congress did indeed deem him a combatant, then he'd be treated as such. While the case worked its way through the courts over the course of 10-15 years, he'd still be treated like an enemy combatant.[/QUOTE]
Actually the congress probably does not the ability to declare someone an enemy combatant. On top of that, the first court that gets it (in this case probably your consittutional one, since it's an act of congress) might issue a suspendory notice on the issue. In which case it's essentially halted until the courts agree on it.
[QUOTE=archangel125;40372519]Militaristic nations, perhaps.[/QUOTE]
More one that turn a blind eye to torture if the US turns a blind eye to their torture.
also seriously just give Guantanamo bay back to the Cubans US, your treaty isn't worth shit when the government it was signed to doesn't fucking exist anymore
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;40375607]More one that turn a blind eye to torture if the US turns a blind eye to their torture.
also seriously just give Guantanamo bay back to the Cubans US, your treaty isn't worth shit when the government it was signed to doesn't fucking exist anymore[/QUOTE]
Just like when the U.S. refused to pay war debts to the new French gov after their revolution right?
Terrorism? what the fuck political agenda were they supposedly peddling?
None I'd imagine...
[editline]22nd April 2013[/editline]
Terrorism is what every fucking media outlet is guilty of
The right wing just wants more fodder for the military industrial complex, as usual.
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