[QUOTE=Kopimi;41144022]zimmerman initiated the conflict by chasing an innocent teenager down with a gun, he deserved any attack martin gave him
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
"omg he had scrapes on the back of his head clearly justified to kill martin! did you know he smoked weed??"
quick reminder that zimmerman is a full grown man armed with a handgun who decided to call the police because he saw a black person, then against the advice of the 911 operator he chased martin down on foot. what the fuck would you do if some giant mongoloid with a gun chased you down at night[/QUOTE]
that's a total misrepresentation of what happened and tray-tray was hardly "innocent", viz. lockpicking tools and his own firearm
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41144071]There isn't anything suggesting Zimmerman chased him down with a gun drawn or even initially confronted him.[/QUOTE]
zimmerman, armed with a gun, continued to pursue martin despite 911 telling him it was entirely unnecessary and unneeded. if an armed neighborhood watchman decided to stalk me around my neighborhood at night i would be confrontational too
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41144095]that's a total misrepresentation of what happened and tray-tray was hardly "innocent", viz. lockpicking tools and his own firearm[/QUOTE]
haha you dont think anything you say about this matters do you? youre an outright racist so forgive me if i dont take your opinions on a largely race related case very seriously. lockpicking tools dont matter, i have lockpicking tools and im not committing any B&E's. iirc the gun wasnt even martins it was his fathers and even if it was his, why does that matter? if a white facepuncher has a gun he's a cool dude with an appreciation for weaponry and a fun hobby, if a black kid has one hes a gangster who deserves to be shot to death by neighborhood watch on his way home from the corner store
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
not to mention he wasn't armed at the time so whatever arsenal his daddy has in his closet means fuck all to me
Zimmerman didn't continue chasing Trayvon after the operator told him he didn't need to do that, Zimmerman said "ok" and stopped pursuit. If you listen to the call you can hear him respond and stop running after that moment.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41144178]zimmerman, armed with a gun, [B]continued to pursue martin[/B] despite 911 telling him it was entirely unnecessary and unneeded. if an armed neighborhood watchman decided to stalk me around my neighborhood at night i would be confrontational too[/quote]
no, he didn't
[quote]haha you dont think anything you say about this matters do you? youre an outright racist so forgive me if i dont take your opinions on a largely race related case very seriously. lockpicking tools dont matter, i have lockpicking tools and im not committing any B&E's. iirc the gun wasnt even martins it was his fathers and even if it was his, why does that matter? if a white facepuncher has a gun he's a cool dude with an appreciation for weaponry and a fun hobby, [B]if a black kid has one hes a gangster[/B] who deserves to be shot to death by neighborhood watch on his way home from the corner store[/quote]
well considering the likelihood ratio of skullduggery for a black kid with lockpicking tools and a firearm and a previous history of drug abuse and pictures on his facebook wall of him in "gangsta" poses, in an area with a recent series of burglaries
i'd be hella suspicious
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41144232]well considering the likelihood ratio of skullduggery for a black kid with lockpicking tools and a firearm and a previous history of drug abuse and pictures on his facebook wall of him in "gangsta" poses, in an area with a recent series of burglaries
i'd be hella suspicious[/QUOTE]
well yeah its not surprising you'd be suspicious i mean we've been over this whole "racist" thing before but all zimmerman had to go on was "oh look, a black kid" and he decided to call 911 and start following him with a gun. being suspicious of someone for being black sounds kinda.. hm dang whats the word..
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41144259]well yeah its not surprising you'd be suspicious i mean we've been over this whole "racist" thing before but all zimmerman had to go on was "oh look, a black kid" and he decided to call 911 and start following him with a gun. being suspicious of someone for being black sounds kinda.. hm dang whats the word..[/QUOTE]
except that didn't happen, tray-tray was behaving suspiciously after zimmerman stopped him and asked him what he was doing, which is why zimmerman pursued him after that point
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41144290]except that didn't happen, tray-tray was behaving suspiciously after zimmerman stopped him and asked him what he was doing, which is why zimmerman pursued him after that point[/QUOTE]
why did zimmerman stop him in the first place and what qualifies as "behaving suspiciously"
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41144309]why did zimmerman stop him in the first place and what qualifies as "behaving suspiciously"[/QUOTE]
because there had been a series of robberies in the area:
[quote]"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about" and "looking at all the houses"[/quote]
it's what we in the business call "adding 2 and 2"
hahahahaha
so he saw a black teenager going home and not staring at his feet and decided he's "acting suspicious" and "on drugs or something"
fantastic point Dain i never thought of it that way, im glad hes dead if he was looking at houses
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143669]hey you managed to forget the point in a record one post. congratulations
[B]It has nothing to do with whether or not Zimmerman was actually defending himself.[/B]
[B]It has everything to do with the police not giving a shit about a dead black teenager.[/B]
In a country in which black men are incarcerated at six times the rate white men are it's fucking crazy to think that the widespread racism in America's justice system magically had nothing to do with a police department's decision not to investigate the shooting death of a black teenager.[/QUOTE]
Think it's possible that they didn't give a shit about a dead young thug [this is what they would think Trayvon was, afterall]? Why does it have to be racism?
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41144343]because there had been a series of robberies in the area:
it's what we in the business call "adding 2 and 2"[/QUOTE]
Being black and looking at houses is now punishable by death by the Neighborhood Watch "security coordinator".
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41144418]Being black and looking at houses is now punishable by death by the Neighborhood Watch "security coordinator".[/QUOTE]
again
during the rain, late at night
when there had been a series of robberies in the area
if you think his motive was to just run up to him and fucking execute him on the spot, do you really think he would have [I]called the police first?[/I]
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41143768]I'm not sure what point I forgot. There is no evidence to suggest his release was raced based, just because Martin was black and there was an outcome that was questionable doesn't automatically mean the cops "don't give a shit about a dead black teenager".
There are many things that could have contributed to his release, such as all the evidence collaborating with the claim of self defense. They might have felt there was no need for an investigation, like I said perhaps shoddy police work. Racism could have been a possibility but claiming it as a fact is stupid.[/QUOTE][url]http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133[/url]
[quote]• Defendants claiming "stand your ground" are more likely to prevail if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty compared to 59 percent of those who killed a white.[/quote]
[QUOTE=SL128;41144471][url]http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133[/url][/QUOTE]
and everyone ignores the elephant in the room ...
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41144444]again
during the rain, late at night
when there had been a series of robberies in the area[/QUOTE]
Are we going to throw in the fact that he was wearing a hoodie and had silly facebook pictures on the list of "shit that shouldn't be relevant to this case"?
[QUOTE]if you think his motive was to just run up to him and fucking execute him on the spot, do you really think he would have [I]called the police first?[/I][/QUOTE]
it doesn't really matter what his motive was, you are explaining away the fact that shooting the kid was permissible because of all these bullshit factors after the police he called told him to stand down.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41144517]after the police he called told him to stand down.[/QUOTE]
dispatchers are not law enforcement officers, they are civilians
and you are not legally obligated to listen to them.
This case is just so fucked up at this point. Everything about it has been handled poorly, from the beginning.
I guess that's part of [I]why[/I] it's such a big case, though. Because the police fucked it up in the first place.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41144484]and everyone ignores the elephant in the room ...[/QUOTE]
because the elephant is a racist
talking about a case where race is a huge factor
you're the elephant
Zimmerman was literally looking for trouble, not as a neighborhood watch, but as a fucking wannabe cop.
Most if not all of his phonecalls were reporting black males of various ages left and fucking right.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41144517]Are we going to throw in the fact that he was wearing a hoodie and had silly facebook pictures on the list of "shit that shouldn't be relevant to this case"?[/quote]
i don't really care much about the hoodie. i mean, it was raining, what else would he do?
i'm talking about his specific behavior, which pretty obviously matched the pattern of scoping out potential houses to rob
[quote]it doesn't really matter what his motive was, you are explaining away the fact that shooting the kid was permissible because of all these bullshit factors after the police he called told him to stand down.[/QUOTE]
yeah and he did stand down, he later pursued him because he was worried the police would lose him because the area was a clusterfuck (a dumb thing to do by all accounts)
my point is that it's overwhelmingly likely that tray-tray assaulted zimmerman first when they encountered each other, and so zimmerman had no choice but to stand his ground
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Last or First;41144604]because the elephant is a racist
talking about a case where race is a huge factor
you're the elephant[/QUOTE]
no the elephant is the disproportionate number of black-on-white crimes
the statistic for the number of SYG cases with black victims should come as no surprise to anybody
[QUOTE=SL128;41144471][url]http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133[/url][/QUOTE]
What does that have to do with my statement?
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41144611]
i'm talking about his specific behavior, which pretty obviously matched the pattern of scoping out potential houses to rob
[/QUOTE]
You still haven't explained why being black, at night, while it's raining, and looking at houses is suspicious.
[QUOTE]
my point is that it's overwhelmingly likely that tray-tray assaulted zimmerman first when they encountered each other, and so zimmerman had no choice but to stand his ground[/QUOTE]
Right, that's how stand your ground works. A large adult with a handgun killing a teenager with some tea and skittles because obviously there was no other way out of that situation. I'm sure if a black dude killed a white kid in Florida the police would just assume that obviously the kid was at fault.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41144687]What does that have to do with my statement?[/QUOTE]
I don't get it either. That pretty much crushes DBS's (flawed) argument.
[quote=article]
Among the findings:
• Those who invoke "stand your ground" to avoid prosecution have been extremely successful. Nearly 70 percent have gone free.
• Defendants claiming "stand your ground" are more likely to prevail if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty compared to 59 percent of those who killed a white.
• People often go free under "stand your ground" in cases that seem to make a mockery of what lawmakers intended. One man killed two unarmed people and walked out of jail. Another shot a man as he lay on the ground. Others went free after shooting their victims in the back. In nearly a third of the cases the Times analyzed, defendants initiated the fight, shot an unarmed person or pursued their victim — and still went free.
• Similar cases can have opposite outcomes. Depending on who decided their cases, some drug dealers claiming self-defense have gone to prison while others have been set free. The same holds true for killers who left a fight, only to arm themselves and return. Shoot someone from your doorway? Fire on a fleeing burglar? Your case can swing on different interpretations of the law by prosecutors, judge or jury.
• A comprehensive analysis of "stand your ground" decisions is all but impossible. When police and prosecutors decide not to press charges, they don't always keep records showing how they reached their decisions. And no one keeps track of how many "stand your ground" motions have been filed or their outcomes.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41144741]
Right, that's how stand your ground works. A large adult with a handgun killing a teenager with some tea and skittles because obviously there was no other way out of that situation. I'm sure if a black dude killed a white kid in Florida the police would just assume that obviously the kid was at fault.[/QUOTE]
Stand your ground isn't even being claimed, its irrelevant
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41144767]Stand your ground isn't even being claimed, its irrelevant[/QUOTE]
Tell Dain that.
[quote]A comprehensive analysis of "stand your ground" decisions is all but impossible. When police and prosecutors decide not to press charges, they don't always keep records showing how they reached their decisions. And no one keeps track of how many "stand your ground" motions have been filed or their outcomes.[/quote]
wait isn't that an argument against your position
and anyway it doesn't say squat about my argument:
the higher acquittal rate for syg cases where the victim was black is not surprising given that blacks are more likely to be the instigators of such conflicts
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41144741]You still haven't explained why being black, at night, while it's raining, and looking at houses is suspicious.
Right, that's how stand your ground works. A large adult with a handgun killing a teenager with some tea and skittles because obviously there was no other way out of that situation. I'm sure if a black dude killed a white kid in Florida the police would just assume that obviously the kid was at fault.[/QUOTE]
Didn't Zimmerman get attacked by Trayvon first?
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41144444]if you think his motive was to just run up to him and fucking execute him on the spot, do you really think he would have [I]called the police first?[/I][/QUOTE]
Well if he was favoring logic/justice over his personal motives he would of listened to the police when they told him to fuck off
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;41144834]Well if he was favoring logic/justice over his personal motives he would of listened to the police when they told him to fuck off[/QUOTE]
Not police
[QUOTE=xxncxx;41144829]Didn't Zimmerman get attacked by Trayvon first?[/QUOTE]
Did he?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41144867]Did he?[/QUOTE]
I don't know really besides the fact he was in a fight with Trayvon at some point. I haven't really kept up so I was asking if it was known who initiated the fight.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
