[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41147923]From where the fuck does anybody know anything? All we [i]know[/i] is that there's one dead teenager who was trailed and then shot by a neighborhood watch member despite the fact that he was doing nothing illegal.
If "things we don't know" have to be entirely discounted from our interpretations of events then that makes a pretty open and shut case for Zimmerman's guilt since all of your arguments about how it could become legal for him to shoot someone who he himself went out of his way to confront are based on just as much conjecture as what you're trying to call me out for.[/QUOTE]
You attempted to make a statement of fact, I justifiably raised the point that you do not know what happened exactly that night as neither do I. Also you're implying that jury will know only as much as we do about the case, which will certainly not be true as there will definitely be evidence presented that we were never aware of.
[QUOTE=Lamar;41148066]You attempted to make a statement of fact, I justifiably raised the point that you do not know what happened exactly that night as neither do I. Also you're implying that jury will know only as much as we do about the case, which will certainly not be true as there will definitely be evidence presented that we were never aware of.[/QUOTE]
You can be pretty sure that the Jury is going to make similar deductions.
[QUOTE=mokkan;41148309]You can be pretty sure that the Jury is going to make similar deductions.[/QUOTE]
That here isn't enough evidence to convict him
[editline]23rd June 2013[/editline]
if there isn't any new evidence presented of course. Which is why this voice thing is a huge blow to the prosecutions case.
If I had to pull a total guess out of my ass about what happened, I'd say Martin confronted Zimmerman after noticing he was being followed and Zimmerman, being [del]defender of the realm[/del] neighbourhood watch extraordinaire, took this as a confirmation that Marin was up to no good and decided he'd play superhero and get the gun out. Martin freaked at this, got into a fight with Zimmerman, Zimmerman fired.
If this is correct I don't think Zimmerman needs to go away for the rest of his life or anything but the fool shouldn't be allowed around guns anymore
There are a few people in this thread who are getting ridiculed for simply pointing out how close to nothing is known about this case. Why? Saying that there is fuck all beyond circumstantial evidence to convict him does not mean, or in anyway imply, that he is innocent or guilty. The two are separate statements, and anyone blurring them together is failing to even attempt to make an unbiased statement.
He could be innocent or guilty. The point that keeps getting brought up is that there is next to absolutely nothing concrete to go on here. You don't know. I don't know. The only living person who knows is him. It's practically entirely circumstantial. Unless there's some serious shit that the rest of the planet doesn't know about, this really doesn't seem like the prosecution has a snowballs chance in hell of sticking a conviction on him.
There's lots of circumstantial stuff to indicate that both of them were/are fuckheads in one fashion or another. We know a kid was shot. We know where, when and who did it. Claiming much of anything beyond that is to make enormous "logical" leaps. We don't know the context, and it's doubtful that it will ever be known.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41143893]because most people involved in law enforcement are race realists
they can't be "not racist" any more than they can believe that 2 and 2 make 5.
i'm not exactly dismissing it out of hand but i think it's unlikely
because y'know, if a higher-up is found to be running an organization that executed a kid based on his race then there's gonna be hell to pay[/QUOTE]
Dude, It's okay. Really, it is. I get you. George Zimmerman was no hero or 'action man' or what have you. He was just a citizen who saw a black teenager acting suspiciously. Not really anything out of the ordinary considering they always look like that, am I right? Heh. Seriously though, he was justified in doing what he did; he didn't kill him just because he was black, that'd be going too far. I bet that little wannabe gangster punk started insulting him after he realized he was being tailed, probably calling him a 'cracker' or whatever it is those people say nowadays. Heck, I wouldn't know, I don't know anyone who's black. Now, George, being the level headed and intelligent person he is (unlike a certain someone), calmly inquires Jero- uh, I mean, Tray-Tray as to the nature of his business. I bet that kid got all up in his face, talking about how 'whitey be keepin' the brother down' or some such nonsense.
George realizes that this isn't gonna be easy - this guy's probably got satchets of weed or cocaine or something stuffed down his pants. He asks him if he does indeed have any such drug in his immediate possession. Suddenly, Trayvon's primitive eyes light up- 'Oh, snap!' he thinks, 'This guy's a cop!'. Out of options, Trayvon does the one thing that countless hours of watching Boyz In Da Hood II have taught him - he goes for the gun.
Shocked, George pulls back and tries to defend himself, but Trayvon's natural brute strength is too much for him; he falls to the ground, scratching the back of his head. Trayvon gleefully leaps atop him, but George gracefully slips out from underneath him and dials 911, his fingers honed for maximum speed from his days working at a high-paying office job like all white people do. In seconds, he is connected to a dispatch officer and Trayvon is on his feet. Unleashing a savage war cry (the scream heard in the 911 call), Trayvon sprints towards George. As agile as he is, Zimmerman is no match for the incredible speed of the average African-American; nigh-instantly, Trayvon has the gun. But wait, something's wrong - Trayvon's fingers, covered with blisters from holding a lit crack pipe cause him to fumble with it, and suddenly, BANG! The gun discharges directly into Trayvon's chest.
Horrified, George immediately informs the responding police of the situation. The officer laughs, and offers George a ride to the police station to sort all this out. George graciously accepts, and the upon arriving, he tells the interviewing officers everything - the suspicion, the unwarranted belligerence, the altercation, the fatal shot.
There's a pause in the room; then one laughs. And another. And another. Soon, the whole department is in an uproar. The department lieutenant guffaws and slaps his knee. 'Oh, those crazy blackies, when will they ever learn?'. He motions to the door. 'You can go now, Mr. Zimmerman, we'll send someone out there to clean up the mess later'.
Did it happen that way? Maybe. Maybe not. The point is, it's natural for humans to be racist. The police have a tough job, and accounting for the natural handicaps one race might have is important when you're dealing with a crime. After all, how would you feel if you had to see black people dragged in for violent crimes, day after day? In my opinion, this whole 'trial' nonsense is a joke. Zimmerman should have been acquitted ages ago.
See that?
That's you.
That's what you actually fucking sound like right now.
You, a perfectly intelligent teenager with a university education who currently lives in an air-conditioned two-story house in a middle-class suburb, came to that conclusion after taking the time to step back, look at the damn thing, and say 'Gee, I think that's a logical and perfectly reasonable response!'
That's it? That's your brain working on full capacity? There's no possible way you could come up with a better idea? No little lightbulbs dinging above your head? No thinking cap? Hm?
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41143753]I don't think those "Official advisory guide for chimpouts" on /pol/ are entirely accurate.
I mean, where is this idea that there will be widespread race riots coming from?[/QUOTE]
They're based off an outdated operating procedure that was phased out years ago.
They use Chimpcon 1-5 now.
[QUOTE=_jesterk;41149392]Dude, It's okay. Really, it is. I get you. George Zimmerman was no hero or 'action man' or what have you. He was just a citizen who saw a black teenager acting suspiciously. Not really anything out of the ordinary considering they always look like that, am I right? Heh. Seriously though, he was justified in doing what he did; he didn't kill him just because he was black, that'd be going too far. I bet that little wannabe gangster punk started insulting him after he realized he was being tailed, probably calling him a 'cracker' or whatever it is those people say nowadays. Heck, I wouldn't know, I don't know anyone who's black. Now, George, being the level headed and intelligent person he is (unlike a certain someone), calmly inquires Jero- uh, I mean, Tray-Tray as to the nature of his business. I bet that kid got all up in his face, talking about how 'whitey be keepin' the brother down' or some such nonsense.
George realizes that this isn't gonna be easy - this guy's probably got satchets of weed or cocaine or something stuffed down his pants. He asks him if he does indeed have any such drug in his immediate possession. Suddenly, Trayvon's primitive eyes light up- 'Oh, snap!' he thinks, 'This guy's a cop!'. Out of options, Trayvon does the one thing that countless hours of watching Boyz In Da Hood II have taught him - he goes for the gun.
Shocked, George pulls back and tries to defend himself, but Trayvon's natural brute strength is too much for him; he falls to the ground, scratching the back of his head. Trayvon gleefully leaps atop him, but George gracefully slips out from underneath him and dials 911, his fingers honed for maximum speed from his days working at a high-paying office job like all white people do. In seconds, he is connected to a dispatch officer and Trayvon is on his feet. Unleashing a savage war cry (the scream heard in the 911 call), Trayvon sprints towards George. As agile as he is, Zimmerman is no match for the incredible speed of the average African-American; nigh-instantly, Trayvon has the gun. But wait, something's wrong - Trayvon's fingers, covered with blisters from holding a lit crack pipe cause him to fumble with it, and suddenly, BANG! The gun discharges directly into Trayvon's chest.
Horrified, George immediately informs the responding police of the situation. The officer laughs, and offers George a ride to the police station to sort all this out. George graciously accepts, and the upon arriving, he tells the interviewing officers everything - the suspicion, the unwarranted belligerence, the altercation, the fatal shot.
There's a pause in the room; then one laughs. And another. And another. Soon, the whole department is in an uproar. The department lieutenant guffaws and slaps his knee. 'Oh, those crazy blackies, when will they ever learn?'. He motions to the door. 'You can go now, Mr. Zimmerman, we'll send someone out there to clean up the mess later'.
Did it happen that way? Maybe. Maybe not. The point is, it's natural for humans to be racist. The police have a tough job, and accounting for the natural handicaps one race might have is important when you're dealing with a crime. After all, how would you feel if you had to see black people dragged in for violent crimes, day after day? In my opinion, this whole 'trial' nonsense is a joke. Zimmerman should have been acquitted ages ago.
See that?
That's you.
That's what you actually fucking sound like right now.
You, a perfectly intelligent teenager with a university education who currently lives in an air-conditioned two-story house in a middle-class suburb, came to that conclusion after taking the time to step back, look at the damn thing, and say 'Gee, I think that's a logical and perfectly reasonable response!'
That's it? That's your brain working on full capacity? There's no possible way you could come up with a better idea? No little lightbulbs dinging above your head? No thinking cap? Hm?[/QUOTE]
people write fanfics of me now
woa
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41147923]From where the fuck does anybody know anything? All we [i]know[/i] is that there's one dead teenager who was trailed and then shot by a neighborhood watch member despite the fact that he was doing nothing illegal.
If "things we don't know" have to be entirely discounted from our interpretations of events then that makes a pretty open and shut case for Zimmerman's guilt since all of your arguments about how it could become legal for him to shoot someone who he himself went out of his way to confront are based on just as much conjecture as what you're trying to call me out for.[/QUOTE]
Join Kopimi in the line of people giving this evidence then. On this forum there are certain people who claim fact about things despite the "proof" being scarce. Interesting that the posters claiming racial motives in here are the ones putting Trayvon being black to the forefront. Also isn't Zimmerman hispanic? why is no one thinking Trayvon went after him because of his race? It's unlikely but you gotta explore all the options here when claiming racism.
If Zimmerman's course of events is to be believed then Trayvon was on top of him, that at the least is [I]arguable[/I] for justifiable homicide. For all the points about Zimmerman trying to start trouble and beat Trayvon, why did he not just pull his sidearm, aim at him and tell him to lay on the floor and then kick the shit out of him?
Now please where is the proof this is an open and shut case?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41148493]If I had to pull a total guess out of my ass about what happened, I'd say Martin confronted Zimmerman after noticing he was being followed and Zimmerman, being [del]defender of the realm[/del] neighbourhood watch extraordinaire, took this as a confirmation that Marin was up to no good and decided he'd play superhero and get the gun out. Martin freaked at this, got into a fight with Zimmerman, Zimmerman fired.
If this is correct I don't think Zimmerman needs to go away for the rest of his life or anything but the fool shouldn't be allowed around guns anymore[/QUOTE]
If we're speculating, I'd blame three things, pride, ego, and the stand your ground law.
Pride- not wanting to allow another guy to get one over on you. Zimmerman and Martin each would want to show the other guy "You don't intimidate me."
Ego- I'm a badass, I don't back down from anyone. In any confrontation I will do what it takes to 'win' because my ego won't allow me to defuse a situation(that's wimpy).
Stand your ground, because it encourages confrontation. Everyone already has the right to self defense. Stand your ground is needed for what? It feeds the ego, it validates a person's desire to fight rather than retreat. That's what stand your ground means, stay and fight and don't run away.
Put all three things together, two guys in each other's faces, add a gun, and nothing good will come of it.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41150320]people write fanfics of me now
woa[/QUOTE]
fiction means not real
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41144047]i could give a fuck what the investigation concludes about who "started" the physical confrontation. without zimmerman's overzealous and likely racially motivated hero complex martin would be alive and zimmerman could go on living his pathetic life of mediocrity[/QUOTE]
mediocrity? Did you kill somebody? no? you're god damn average
dainbraimdage why are you calling him 'tray-tray' ? don't you think you've proven yourself to be racist enough without having to mock a dead black kid? 'race realists' you're a real card mate.
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