We want a United States of Europe says top EU official - Polidicks

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;43466695]A United States of Europe would tear itself apart, and fall into a civil war before it got out of its baby steps. It's happened to the United States of America several times through out its' history, and Europe would be no exception.[/QUOTE] For what reason? Why would such a conflict begin? [editline]8th January 2014[/editline] In the modern era, that is.

[QUOTE=Megafan;43466887]For what reason? Why would such a conflict begin?[/QUOTE] didn't you get the memo there has been several civil wars in America and we all know nothing is an exception when compared to merica

I would really like to see this happen one day, but not until we can reach mutual toleration with all of our neighbours. *coughcoughserbiacoughcough*

[QUOTE=Savant231A;43466909]I would really like to see this happen one day, but not until we can reach mutual toleration with all of our neighbours. *coughcoughserbiacoughcough*[/QUOTE] Well it certainly takes time, but nothing worth doing happens overnight. Besides, Serbia isn't even in the EU yet.

It'd actually be pretty funny to see Europe make a better type of United States than the original over here that's gone to shit. A direct and highly similar competitor could give us Americans a reason to get our shit together, or it could give the remaining sane citizens here reason to emigrate and ditch the old U.S. of A. for the new U.S. of E. Of course, I may have just misunderstood what the article meant by "United States of Europe", but it seems pretty clear at least.

[QUOTE=Virtanen;43466353]Too bad nobody else does.[/QUOTE] Why do statists always think they are some sort of persecuted minority? Look around you. Federal Europe is inevitable.

[QUOTE=TurboSax;43466953]It'd actually be pretty funny to see Europe make a better type of United States than the original over here that's gone to shit. A direct and highly similar competitor could give us Americans a reason to get our shit together, or it could give the remaining sane citizens here reason to emigrate and ditch the old U.S. of A. for the new U.S. of E. Of course, I may have just misunderstood what the article meant by "United States of Europe", but it seems pretty clear at least.[/QUOTE] The EU already has the highest GDP among state-like entities in the world, and is certainly one of the leaders as far as human rights are concerned. The way some talk on here you'd think it's some kind of wasteland of sharia law and totalitarianism.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;43466980]Why do statists always think they are some sort of persecuted minority? Look around you. Federal Europe is inevitable.[/QUOTE] It's a good thing, so why complain? An industrious, peaceful state with human rights and a good system to arbitrate dispute. Remember that member peoples joined willingly, and economic forces are largely helping to promote integration.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;43466695]A United States of Europe would tear itself apart, and fall into a civil war before it got out of its baby steps. It's happened to the United States of America several times through out its' history, and Europe would be no exception.[/QUOTE] Well, the U.S.A. has held together just fine for roughly two centuries, even though every state seems to hate another state if not several others on some level. I may not know much about past and current relations between European nations, but if making a U.S. of their own works out for them like it did for us, they'll wind up having a clusterfuck of clashing opinions and a borderline-unhealthy focus on inter-state competitive sports. If we supposedly-stupid Americans could avoid dissolving our bonds and killing each other long enough to make a nation, I'm willing to bet that anyone else with the time and resources could manage too.

[QUOTE=joshdasmif;43466420]With a German Head chancellor for EU. Making Germany succeed in doing what they tried to do in the 1900's but without war[/QUOTE] I am Czech born with half of my ancestry from here and other half from Russia. I have absolutely no racial or national obligation or affiliation with Germany, yet let me tell you one thing. As long as they wouldn't force change of language or of our cultural identity (which government has no reason to do), I would happily embrace German officials over Czech ones. If somebody is good at governing countries and driving economy, it's Germans. And even then, this entire idea is asinine, as Germany is perhaps one solid engine and at the same time think-tank of EU, but it doesn't dominate it at all, either. Nationalist notions are outdated and backwards. Federalization of Europe is something that should progress VERY cautiously and with great care so flops like Greece don't repeat, but it's something that should definitely happen and would let not just Europe but entire world to prosper more than ever before.

[QUOTE]"best weapon against the Eurosceptics" [/QUOTE] Pretty sure it's actually Eurosceptics best weapon against the EU.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43466367]Can somebody explain how essentially reverse-balkanizing the entirety of Europe of magically end all European conflicts? Renaming two countries that hate each other isn't going to magically make them friends.[/QUOTE] fucking worked in 1945 didn't it?

No one currency has ever survived. The Euro is unstable enough thanks to its forced deployment, so uniting countries like that really won't help.

[QUOTE=The mouse;43467075]Pretty sure it's actually Eurosceptics best weapon against the EU.[/QUOTE] the best weapon against eurosceptics is reason seeing as eurosceptics tend to absolutely lack the faculty. [editline]8th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;43466695]A United States of Europe would tear itself apart, and fall into a civil war before it got out of its baby steps. It's happened to the United States of America several times through out its' history, and Europe would be no exception.[/QUOTE] absolutely unsubstantiated

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;43466713]As an American that has absolutely no say or opinion on the EU whatsoever, I say hell no! v:v:v[/QUOTE] As an American that has absolutely no say or opinion on the EU whatsoever, Ehh.

I don't know what a realization of this would imply so I don't have any opinions about it. But you'd be quite dense if you are unable to see what positive things EU have brought.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;43467092]fucking worked in 1945 didn't it?[/QUOTE] I would argue that today and post-war Europe are different places, and was specifically referring to some of the less developed European countries.

The EU has brought positive things. But I doubt it would happen anywhere in our lifetime.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43467146]I would argue that today and post-war Europe are different places, and was specifically referring to some of the less developed European countries.[/QUOTE] post war europe and today are different places because of the EU and we'll see about the less developed countries

[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;43467152]The EU has brought positive things. But I doubt it would happen anywhere in our lifetime.[/QUOTE] no nothing like economic activity, interstate business, travel and the most stable Europe has ever been in its entire history.

[QUOTE=Memobot;43467097]No one currency has ever survived. The Euro is unstable enough thanks to its forced deployment, so uniting countries like that really won't help.[/QUOTE] What? The Euro is doing well last I heard.

If they federalize the EU, I'd rather they didn't pick the name "United States of Europe". It makes it sound like we want to be American wannabes or something. It also kinda gives "one nation, indivisible" notion which goes against what the EU stands for (the EU easily allows member states to leave, which is something a lot of people forget.) Europe is basically a confederation as it is now, federalizing parts of it would make it run in a more homogenous fashion, which can be useful. EDIT: I, for one, would prefer the term "European Federation". Or hell, even just EU. Why bother changing?

I only have two concerns. The first being every other superpower, Russia, America, China, Rome in it's day, have had governments who were either out of touch with their people or actively oppressed them. Not that I think that will happen, I just think caution is important when considering such power and responsibility. The second thing is that when it eventually does happen I don't want it to be called the United States of Europe. It sounds dumb, just keep the European Union name.

[QUOTE=Gentry;43467171]no nothing like economic activity, interstate business, travel and the most stable Europe has ever been in its entire history.[/QUOTE] But it has brought that? What I mean was I doubt a 'United States of Europe' would happen anytime soon.

This is highly unlikely to happen any time soon, but it is an inevitability IMO. It would be a very long transition period before it ever happens, however you could say that's what's currently happening with the EU.

Things wouldn't be all that different, to be honest. If we will ever be called to vote for an EU state constitution I'd sure as hell vote for it.

I'd like to see this happen in my lifetime. Personally I have seen nothing but advantages to the EU so far.

[QUOTE=lapsus_;43467227]Things wouldn't be all that different, to be honest. If we will ever be called to vote for an EU state constitution I'd sure as hell vote for it.[/QUOTE] There was a EU constitution draft years ago, but it didn't pass the referenda in all countries. Parts of it survived into the treaty of Lisbon, though.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43467050]It's a good thing, so why complain? An industrious, peaceful state with human rights and a good system to arbitrate dispute. Remember that member peoples joined willingly, and economic forces are largely helping to promote integration.[/QUOTE] What you described in the other post were the benefits of free trade an open borders. Do those require grouping up countries into a federation?

[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;43467218]But it has brought that?[/QUOTE] yes