We want a United States of Europe says top EU official - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;43474279]Hopefully denmark will get the fuck out in my lifetime.[/QUOTE] not gonna happen.

[QUOTE=Keyblockor1;43466751]EU is now the Holy Roman Empire v.2[/QUOTE] the Atheist Roman Empire?

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;43474279] I never saw the appeal of unity, I wouldnt want everything to blend together into one big grey slurry. And sure as fuck do not want a denmark that is styled by any other country's fashion, What we have is interesting and unique, sure there are problems but we have the good old nordic advantage of agreeing that whatever happens we shouldnt let our differences come in the way of keeping the boat floating. Also can we stop the whole superpower thing? Its like youre trying to maximize the amount of lives ruined every time your 'peace through power' thing blows up in your face.[/QUOTE] Well, whether you like it or not, I'm pretty sure it will happen. The EU bureaucrats are subtle, they're already making it so the EU has one foreign policy and an ambassador for the EU, one bank, and there's already EUFOR and it will get even bigger. Sometime, someday, the federalization will just happen suddenly and people would already be used to all the subtle changes that the EU Commission did. This is the future and we need to embrace it, humanity needs an example for a unified world, or we'll never manage to become great.

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;43474579]Well, whether you like it or not, I'm pretty sure it will happen. The EU bureaucrats are subtle, they're already making it so the EU has one foreign policy and an ambassador for the EU, one bank, and there's already EUFOR and it will get even bigger. Sometime, someday, the federalization will just happen suddenly and people would already be used to all the subtle changes that the EU Commission did. This is the future and we need to embrace it, humanity needs an example for a unified world, or we'll never manage to become great.[/QUOTE] A major change like that can't happen quite so subtly though; there are some things the EU can't veto. Sweden still isn't in the Eurozone, for example, and in a referendum I'm pretty sure we'd vote no again.

I'd take EU legislators over the retards running this country (into the ground), so yes please.

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;43474279]I never saw the appeal of unity, I wouldnt want everything to blend together into one big grey slurry. [/QUOTE] The EU doesn't want that either, so what are you even scared of.

[QUOTE=demoguy08;43474895]A major change like that can't happen quite so subtly though; there are some things the EU can't veto. Sweden still isn't in the Eurozone, for example, and in a referendum I'm pretty sure we'd vote no again.[/QUOTE] Sweden actually having the balls to veto? Hah, good joke. You guys are losing control over your muslims and "progressiveness" because of being too scared to do anything about it. If your government can't do those then they won't do anything against the future Federation either.

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;43474579]Well, whether you like it or not, I'm pretty sure it will happen. The EU bureaucrats are subtle, they're already making it so the EU has one foreign policy and an ambassador for the EU, one bank, and there's already EUFOR and it will get even bigger. Sometime, someday, the federalization will just happen suddenly and people would already be used to all the subtle changes that the EU Commission did. This is the future and we need to embrace it, humanity needs an example for a unified world, or we'll never manage to become great.[/QUOTE] You mean all the megacorporations will only have one wall they need break before dominating and stagnating the entirety of europe? no thanks, Ill take some amount of bureaucratic inefficiency over a corporate police state.

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;43475344]You mean all the megacorporations will only have one wall they need break before dominating and stagnating the entirety of europe? no thanks, Ill take some amount of bureaucratic inefficiency over a corporate police state.[/QUOTE] Have you seen how many times these "megacorporations" have been stopped by the EU Parliament? ACTA and all that bullshit. EU and the future EU Federation will protect the consumers from them. The people that are in the Parliament or Comission aren't retards, they know what they're doing. The governments of countries have been much easier to influence by the US companies than the EU officials.

Yeah, you guys do that.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;43472800]Wouldn't that mean that the more conservative members of the EU will get shafted since Western Europe has a much larger population and is generally more liberal? Doesn't seem it'd be fair for the Eastern/North Eastern countries that aren't very liberal at all.[/QUOTE] No more 'shafted' than Conservatives already are in more left-leaning European countries like Denmark or Sweden. There are conservative cities within countries already that get 'shafted' by their national governments, to act like that on a European level is suddenly egregious, it's nonsense.

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;43475221]Sweden actually having the balls to veto? Hah, good joke. You guys are losing control over your muslims and "progressiveness" because of being too scared to do anything about it. If your government can't do those then they won't do anything against the future Federation either.[/QUOTE] What the hell are you talking about?

[QUOTE=Megafan;43475587]No more 'shafted' than Conservatives already are in more left-leaning European countries like Denmark or Sweden. There are conservative cities within countries already that get 'shafted' by their national governments, to act like that on a European level is suddenly egregious, it's nonsense.[/QUOTE] Trust me, we dont need them, and you probably dont either.

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;43475700]Trust me, we dont need them, and you probably dont either.[/QUOTE] It's the best course for the future of the continent.

[QUOTE=Megafan;43475587]No more 'shafted' than Conservatives already are in more left-leaning European countries like Denmark or Sweden. There are conservative cities within countries already that get 'shafted' by their national governments, to act like that on a European level is suddenly egregious, it's nonsense.[/QUOTE] Please explain how conservatives are being shafted in Denmark or Sweden.

[QUOTE=Megafan;43476213]It's the best course for the future of the continent.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2k_-GRJsvY[/media]

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;43472478]Technically our form of government in the US should work perfectly, but it doesn't in practice, much like virtually all other forms of government. The largest problem comes from our very own people: none of them vote. If we had more people voting, they would be better represented. Hey, yeah, that candidate that you hate so much and talk about all the time - you know why he got in office? [i]Because you didn't vote.[/i] [editline]9th January 2014[/editline] Seriously: the largest election turnouts the US sees is during the presidential election and only [i]30%[/i] of possible voters turn up. I would honestly say district stuff is more important and even less people vote for that nonsense.[/QUOTE] Actually your political system is one of the worst. There's a reason why virtually no presidential system state works well.

[QUOTE=Megafan;43476213]It's the best course for the future of the continent.[/QUOTE] Which you suddenly made you the judge of. I am pretty sure that a decision pulled down on top of the european national states, without referendums will turn nasty very quickly, as people voice their opinion against "the best of the continent"

[QUOTE=Beafman;43477604]Which you suddenly made you the judge of. I am pretty sure that a decision pulled down on top of the european national states, without referendums will turn nasty very quickly, as people voice their opinion against "the best of the continent"[/QUOTE] Which is why there are already these sorts of things to allow countries to leave? Only really Britain is bitching loudly about wanting to leave at the moment and might actually go through with it. The rest of Europe is staying on for the time being to give the EU a shot, considering how successful it has been for the past few decades. [editline]9th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zenreon117;43477135][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2k_-GRJsvY[/media][/QUOTE] Yes, a voluntary institution will suddenly turn into a despotic state.

Sooner or later, we have to abandon the current version of the EU into something else; either we federalise or rollback. Federalise seem likely. The Greek Crisis shows the flaw of the current version. European foreign policy is whack, with people still thinking in national POV, despite the fact that a French victory in Africa benefits everyone. The EU hard/soft power? Lol! How many divisions do they have? Also, ask France on how she likes being the de-facto EU army (Spoilers: she doesn't). EU sanctions are often in coordination with US sanction which makes it seem like that the EU soft power sound overrated. When you remove all that hot air and put things into vote with guns in their heads, most would choose federalisation. Of course, I'm not a fan of centralising everything. That's the point of being a federation. [QUOTE=wraithcat;43472092]I'd much prefer a confederation as opposed to a federation to be honest.[/QUOTE] Confederations are, sadly, unsustainable. It's either they centralise or break apart. [QUOTE=Flyingman356;43472096]It only works with America because that's how America's always been. There are just too many different cultures in Europe, they'd clash terribly.[/QUOTE] Really? No racial conflicts whatsoever? How utopic. [QUOTE=ionuttzu;43475379]Have you seen how many times these "megacorporations" have been stopped by the EU Parliament? ACTA and all that bullshit. EU and the future EU Federation will protect the consumers from them. The people that are in the Parliament or Comission aren't retards, they know what they're doing. The governments of countries have been much easier to influence by the US companies than the EU officials.[/QUOTE] The reason why European governments (and the EU) seem better than the Americans' is simply because our election system is better, and most are using parliamentary too. [editline]9th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ForgottenKane;43472478]Technically our form of government in the US should work perfectly, but it doesn't in practice, much like virtually all other forms of government. The largest problem comes from our very own people: none of them vote. If we had more people voting, they would be better represented. Hey, yeah, that candidate that you hate so much and talk about all the time - you know why he got in office? [i]Because you didn't vote.[/i][/QUOTE] Americans don't vote because you have a shit system. There's no point voting for Mitt Romney in California, and so is voting for Obama in Texas. There's no point voting for third parties either. Hell, I'll even say that I'd rather do something else than to vote, unless I'm in one of the swing states. Ring ring! Mathematics just called, the System is against you. Since the fall of the USSR, the USA got the highest turnout of 57.5% during the 2012 Presidential election, FPTP-using Britain got the worst turnout of 59% on 2001. Read and weep.

[QUOTE=Falchion;43476640]Please explain how conservatives are being shafted in Denmark or Sweden.[/QUOTE] The public at large arent taking them seriously.

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;43483867]The public at large arent taking them seriously.[/QUOTE]Bullshit. The party with the most seats currently is centre-right, and the third largest is the godforsaken DF.

It wouldn't be so bad if they merged into multiple countries but a single, super-state? Like hell that'll be feasible.

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;43484186]Bullshit. The party with the most seats currently is centre-right, and the third largest is the godforsaken DF.[/QUOTE] The only reason they hold any sort of sway over politics is because they promise draconian measures against middle eastern system-moochers. Beyond that they are nearly invisible politically.

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;43484186]Bullshit. The party with the most seats currently is centre-right, and the third largest is the godforsaken DF.[/QUOTE] "Venstre" isn't really conservative compared to conservative in other countries. Yeah, DF is way too big, but the good thing about Danish politics is that it's very dynamic - just a few years ago SF was one of the biggest parties, now it's basically miniscule, and Enhedslisten is enormous now compared to just 2-3 years ago.

[QUOTE=redhaven;43477998]Sooner or later, we have to abandon the current version of the EU into something else; either we federalise or rollback. Federalise seem likely. The Greek Crisis shows the flaw of the current version. European foreign policy is whack, with people still thinking in national POV, despite the fact that a French victory in Africa benefits everyone. The EU hard/soft power? Lol! How many divisions do they have? Also, ask France on how she likes being the de-facto EU army (Spoilers: she doesn't). EU sanctions are often in coordination with US sanction which makes it seem like that the EU soft power sound overrated. When you remove all that hot air and put things into vote with guns in their heads, most would choose federalisation. [/QUOTE] As more reliance is needed in less things going wrong, the whole thing suddenly appears very fragile. When there's so many variables that need to 'stay right' for it to even carry on working, you're gonna have a bad time. This is exacerbated by the fact that when variables do go wrong, people tend to ignore the fact or make an effort to cover it up or make it 'appear right'. Admitting your wrong is probably the best course of action when it comes down to it, at least that gives you a chance to do something - unfortunately it's the course least taken, and if you wait too long, things end up becoming too big to fail, and you end up doing your best to pretend that everything is fine, when it isn't. In a way, I think that's basically what's happened with Governments. Also banks. Also some businesses (the too-big-to-fail variety). So, how to sort out this mess? Firstly, realise there is one.

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;43475221]Sweden actually having the balls to veto? Hah, good joke. You guys are losing control over your muslims and "progressiveness" because of being too scared to do anything about it. If your government can't do those then they won't do anything against the future Federation either.[/QUOTE] Let's not be retarded.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;43473903]That logic makes no sense. [editline]9th January 2014[/editline] I don't want my country to be in the same union as Greece and I really don't want my country to be part of the same country as Greece. The political differences between countries in Europe are too large for this to ever work.[/QUOTE] Certian sacrifices has to be made if we aspire to reach something much greater. We have to share our strenghts and weaknesses in order to forge a better future. Even though there are political diffriences, we have to begin somewhere. The Europan Union is just a stubborn child who is still growing up. If we continue to nurture the idea of a United Europe, then there are no limits to we can reach. Progress takes time. As the Trans-Pacific Partnership is taking shape on the other side of the world. Europe cannot afford to remain divided.

[QUOTE=demoguy08;43475654]What the hell are you talking about?[/QUOTE] He doesn't really have a good grasp of politics in Sweden. He's partially right, none of the parties want to touch the subject of immigration for fear of being labled a racist party, which we all know they would if they did. But Sweden has already voted no for the Eurozone once, we would do it again. If there's ever an European Federation, it wouldn't include Sweden.